Re: NEWSFLASH - The late Sir Clement Freud, resident of Praia da Luz and friend of the McCanns, exposed as a serial paedophile, Lady Freud apologises, Operation Grange to investigate McCann-Freud links (Daily Telegraph 14 Jun 2016)

by tinkier 18.06.16 21:36

Verdi wrote:
whodunit wrote:
Carrry On Doctor wrote:May have missed something if already posted, but has a connection between Robert Murat and CF been established ? It would seem extremely unlikely they weren't acquainted in some way.

What was CF's movements that week, and if away, was the villa being used for something ? Other houses around PdL were reputed for hosting sex parties.

I would say there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. The timing and intention behind these revelations may also be significant.

Given the apparent wealth of the Eveleighs and Murat's evident closeness with his relatives, it seems inconceivable that he didn't know or interact with Freud on some level.
I can't see any reason at this stage to suppose a connection between Robert Murat and Clement Freud. Freud wasn't a permanent resident at his villa, it was reported that he kept himself to himself - a bit snooty by all accounts. Can't imagine a man like that rubbing shoulders with the likes of Murat, a man with a CV that's made more twists and turns than a sidewinder - if Murat had that level of connection I think he might be a more successful businessman.

Now, dodgy jailbird Max Clifford - that's another matter alogether.

I don't think they rubbed shoulders socially but, RM may have been known as the go to person, the one to contact if anything needed done.

by Guest 18.06.16 21:52

@TonyBennett:

3. She said: 'If police investigate Freud and his connections in Praia da Luz, they might find he knew something about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann'. Well, that's a very funny way of putting it, since Freud has been dead for 7 years. But is she saying that there are those alive in Praia da Luz today, possibly paedophiles, who 'know something about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann'? I think she is. So how much does she actually know herself, I wonder?

Frankly I doubt if she knows anything about active paedophilia in Praia da Luz or any other part of Portugal unless read in the press. Just because she claims to be a victim of abuse years ago in the UK, it doesn't follow that she knows the gory details about paedophile gangs or indeed how Clement Freud lived his life whilst staying at the villa in PdL.

If she did know anything of value she wouldn't be blabbing to the press at this late stage and making a direct association with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Who's next - Sir Kittie, he ain't so far from PdL.

In my opinion this is just another attempt to reinforce the abduction by paedophile gang scenario, as propagated by the McCann machine from the very beginning using a dead man who can't defend himself. I feel closure of Operation Grange fast approaching.

by MayMuse 18.06.16 21:57

@whodunnit

Others as in those in the know, or covering up or higher up or those who are doing the PR spin as I do think that this is a part of it, peppered with some truths. You know the "others" as in all those who are hiding the truth, sorry if not clear.

From what I've read many think that OG is pointing to a patsy, gosh they've tried hard enough with the bungling burglars etc. Even Redwood altered the timeline. Now we have CF outed as a paedophile with much time spent in PDL not long after the Cliff Richard "clearing"? Of course we know of the many others (UK) some of whom have been convicted and reside in jail.
We have GM saying that there are paedophile gangs in Portugal ( if he knew this then why choose there as your holiday destination with your children) if he didn't already, how did he find out & where/ who from?

So if this latest is to "discover" a vast paedophile ring and connect that to Madeleine leaving her parents out of it, then this is the way.
For sure I do believe in the paedophile connection just not that her parents are innocent of any wrong doing.

Question is, if this is the case then the past five years has been dragged around the bush and back to "protect" whom/what or why?

The dogs findings have been completely overlooked by OG, and that is a huge red flag.
It seems so have the McCanns and the Tapas, anyone with close proximity to Madeleine on that holiday appears not to be under investigation???

The McCanns shout paedophile, think that a bungling burglar is "credible" yet the dogs "findings" and the PJ investigation and GA book is ludicrous and sue the life out him!

They were appalled at GA 's win.

They are "appalled" (again) on learning about CF?

We are yet to see what the Supreme Court says, will they be just as appalled then?

I ve said before this is not to minimise these ladies ordeals. But as one said she told the police a few years back why is this coming out now?
This is a media farce yet again bringing the McCanns to headline news to gain public sympathy.

Who is duping who ?

IMO

by ShuBob 18.06.16 22:04

@ MayMuse:

"The dogs findings have been completely overlooked by OG, and that is a huge red flag."

How does anyone know what and what not OG has overlooked?

by sallypelt 18.06.16 22:09

'PLOUGH AND PAEDO' Clement Freud drank with Madeleine McCann suspect. . . and at perv pub with child sex beast ‘DJ Shifty’
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'

PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.

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THE SUN too, of ALL newspapers

by MayMuse 18.06.16 22:11

ShuBob wrote:@ MayMuse:

"The dogs findings have been completely overlooked by OG, and that is a huge red flag."

How does anyone know what and what not OG has overlooked?

We don't for sure, but as they have not or seem to not mention the dogs findings or even DP or the Gaspar statements as in Crimewatch it is quite telling. The closest we come to it is Redwood saying that MAdeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment.
If they are investigating all of the above mentioned then they are taking an extremely long time not to mention the huge cost to bring a result.

by Doug D 18.06.16 22:13

CT ……………….and before this I worked as a secretary at Windsor Castle

DC1485'Did you know the Queen'

CT'Yes. I knew her.

DC1485'Personally or'

CT'All, all, yes. The entire family, the whole royal family, yes.

Dc1485'And did you speak to the Queen or Philip'

CT'Mmm, yes, yes.

DC1485'And Diana, did you know Diana'

CT'No, I never knew Diana. She was not there at the time.

……………………………………….

And guess who posted tonights article in The Sun?

'PLOUGH AND PAEDO' Clement Freud drank with Madeleine McCann suspect. . . and at perv pub with child sex beast ‘DJ Shifty’
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
.article__header
EXCLUSIVE
BY ANTONELLA LAZZERI 18th June 2016, 8:27 pm

by whodunit 18.06.16 22:13

@MayMuse--"So if this latest is to "discover" a vast paedophile ring and connect that to Madeleine leaving her parents out of it, then this is the way"

Why do people think blaming a pedo ring discounts the dog findings or leaves the parents out of it?? Of course Madeleine is dead but the fact of her death does not rule out a pedo ring OR her parents culpability! An ELITE pedo ring who rate protection from the UK establishment have kept the McCs out of prison in my opinion .

Let me be as plain as possible: If there was an elite pedophile ring involved in this case, and it appears that there was, then the McCanns had to be involved, they had to have guilty knowledge. There is no way to blame the pedo ring without also blaming the parents. Why? Because there is compelling evidence that the McCs disposed of the body.

Imo this is not an either/or situation. Was it murder or was it a pedo ring is a false dichotomy. It's both at the same time.

by NickE 18.06.16 22:23

Verdi wrote:@TonyBennett:

3. She said: 'If police investigate Freud and his connections in Praia da Luz, they might find he knew something about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann'. Well, that's a very funny way of putting it, since Freud has been dead for 7 years. But is she saying that there are those alive in Praia da Luz today, possibly paedophiles, who 'know something about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann'? I think she is. So how much does she actually know herself, I wonder?

Frankly I doubt if she knows anything about active paedophilia in Praia da Luz or any other part of Portugal unless read in the press. Just because she claims to be a victim of abuse years ago in the UK, it doesn't follow that she knows the gory details about paedophile gangs or indeed how Clement Freud lived his life whilst staying at the villa in PdL.

If she did know anything of value she wouldn't be blabbing to the press at this late stage and making a direct association with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Who's next - Sir Kittie, he ain't so far from PdL.

In my opinion this is just another attempt to reinforce the abduction by paedophile gang scenario, as propagated by the McCann machine from the very beginning using a dead man who can't defend himself. I feel closure of Operation Grange fast approaching.

If that´s the case I don´t think this is a smart PR propaganda from Team McCann´s.
1. Clement Freud was a person of high rank and not a gypsy or a worker from Kap Verde
2. This could also mean that other high ranking people in Freuds circle of friends could be outed.
Would TM take this risk??

3. McCann´s eating dinner and boosing with a paedophile.

by Cheshire Cat 18.06.16 22:25

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by tinkier 18.06.16 22:29

Doug D wrote:CT ……………….and before this I worked as a secretary at Windsor Castle

DC1485'Did you know the Queen'

CT'Yes. I knew her.

DC1485'Personally or'

CT'All, all, yes. The entire family, the whole royal family, yes.

Dc1485'And did you speak to the Queen or Philip'

CT'Mmm, yes, yes.

DC1485'And Diana, did you know Diana'

CT'No, I never knew Diana. She was not there at the time.

……………………………………….

And guess who posted tonights article in The Sun?

'PLOUGH AND PAEDO' Clement Freud drank with Madeleine McCann suspect. . . and at perv pub with child sex beast ‘DJ Shifty’
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
.article__header
EXCLUSIVE
BY ANTONELLA LAZZERI 18th June 2016, 8:27 pm

I would always be suspicious of anything that woman writes, but then again it may be a sign that the gloves are off? The Murrdoch empire v's The Freud empire. Will be very interesting to watch this one develop.

by petunia 18.06.16 22:29

When I have guests they don't arrive to me watching a cookery Program I meet them at the door and I would certainly never ask about Kate's naughty university days(how rude when you have a missing Daughter) IMO he was used and abused by the two Narcissists who he took pity on at first but then got sick of them.I very much doubt he cooked them risotto and poured them Strawberry vodkas, his staff will have done that,and IMO the latest from Vicky stinks OF PR this could get very dirty.

by ShuBob 18.06.16 22:35

According to Lazzeri, CF was on "nodding terms" with Murat. Is that the only link she has between the two?

by MayMuse 18.06.16 22:36

whodunit wrote:@MayMuse--"So if this latest is to "discover" a vast paedophile ring and connect that to Madeleine leaving her parents out of it, then this is the way"

Why do people think blaming a pedo ring discounts the dog findings or leaves the parents out of it?? Of course Madeleine is dead but the fact of her death does not rule out a pedo ring OR her parents culpability! An ELITE pedo ring who rate protection from the UK establishment have kept the McCs out of prison in my opinion .

Let me be as plain as possible: If there was an elite pedophile ring involved in this case, and it appears that there was, then the McCanns had to be involved, they had to have guilty knowledge. There is no way to blame the pedo ring without also blaming the parents. Why? Because there is compelling evidence that the McCs disposed of the body.

Imo this is not an either/or situation. Was it murder or was it a pedo ring is a false dichotomy. It's both at the same time.

Do you honestly think that they are not known?
I'm not ruling out anything just stating that as far as the past 5 years have gone OG have left the MCCanns out of it!

by canada12 18.06.16 22:36

What about the Gaspar Statements?
What if David Payne is the connection between Kate and Gerry, and CF?

by ShuBob 18.06.16 22:39

I believe Lazzeri's latest offering is an attempt to remove the heat from her friends the McCanns.

by MayMuse 18.06.16 22:40

ShuBob wrote:According to Lazzeri, CF was on "nodding terms" with Murat. Is that the only link she has between the two?

I'm on nodding terms with my bank manager, doesn't mean I get special rates big grin

Is this the only connections? Why bring up Murat now, are we going around in circles ?

Surely CF knew many people to socialise with and be on "nodding terms"?

Just goes to show how poor little Madeleine's name is used to sell papers!!!

by MayMuse 18.06.16 22:43

canada12 wrote:What about the Gaspar Statements?
What if David Payne is the connection between Kate and Gerry, and CF?

Exactly it is so obvious that DP and the Gasper statements are not reported on, and why is there a statement by DP missing from the files?

Wonder where CM is, he is relatively quiet?

by **Tony Bennett** 18.06.16 23:20

ShuBob wrote:According to Lazzeri, CF was on "nodding terms" with Murat. Is that the only link she has between the two?

So she admits in clear terms that Clement Freud and Robert Murat knew each other - though trying to minimise this by using the phrase 'nodding terms'.

How exactly does Lazzeri know they were on 'nodding terms'? In fact, what does she know about this whole case? - a lot more than she's admitting, I bet.

Sir Clement Freud was a serial paedophile.

On his own admission, Murat watched the hard porn site 'Redclouds' every night and had encrypted material on his computer for which he had no explanation whatsoever. In addition, two credible witnesses said he had child sexual images on his computer, and that as a teenager he was a violent pervert, into bestilaity.

So the interests of Freud and Murat coincided, at least in certain extremely unhealthy respects.

I suppose we must say that Martin Smith was also 'on nodding terms' with Murat, although his son said that the two had 'met several terms' and Murat admitted he'd 'known each other for two years'. Although this 'nodding acquaintance' was more than sufficient to be rock hard certain that the man he claimed to have seen for a second or two in the dark, carrying a young blond girl, was not Murat.

Murat rushed over to Praia da Luz on the early morning flight to Faro on Tuesday 1 May and when asked by the PJ what he was doing the first four days there he lied comprehensively, making at least 17 knowingly false statements. He was then removed as a translator after trying to look at confidential documents and suggesting the police follow various lines of enquiry, actions wholly incompatible with being a translator.

Wojchiech Krokowksi, the patsy invented by Nuno Lourenco, stayed at Sol e Mar, managed by the firm once run by Murat's father, and Krokowski ate many of his meals that week at the Burgau beach bar, owned by his aunt and uncle, the Eveleighs.

So many roads in this case lead to Robert Murat.

And here is another one - Sir Clement Freud.

I bet Sir Clement had a lot more than a 'nodding' acquaintance with Murat

by ShuBob 18.06.16 23:26

Tony Bennett wrote:
ShuBob wrote:According to Lazzeri, CF was on "nodding terms" with Murat. Is that the only link she has between the two?
So she admits in clear terms that Clement Freud and Robert Murat knew each other - though trying to minimise this by using the phrase 'nodding terms'.

SNIPPED

Does she? I don't get that from the article.

by MayMuse 18.06.16 23:28

As for GM's "No comment" in answer to the question
"Do you know Robert Murat"?

Should that have been "on nodding terms" too?

This CF revelation is opening up a huge can of worms!

by whodunit 18.06.16 23:34

MayMuse wrote:As for GM's "No comment" in answer to the question
"Do you know Robert Murat"?

Should that have been "on nodding terms" too?

This CF revelation is opening up a huge can of worms!

Yes, exactly.

by MayMuse 18.06.16 23:42

Yes, wonder how they will wriggle out of this one?

by Guest 18.06.16 23:42

Far too many pointers to ignore the child abuse connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I can't however believe that her actual fate was in anyway connected to a high profile paedophile syndicate operating in Portugal.

According to all the available evidence, the McCanns and their mates were staying for only a few days on a low budget holiday package deal at the Ocean Club PdL. If a powerful wealthy organized group was involved I would expect them to have been staying in a villa as guests of some influential personality or accommodated in a 5* hotel, not a small shabby Warners holiday apartment. We wouldn't be here today discussing the case of Madeleine McCann - we wouldn't even know of her existence, the whole operation would have been handled with descretion.

The aftermath however is another matter altogether. The issue of child sex abuse is a national/international problem of mammoth proportions - the need to protect those involved directly or on the periphery is paramount. This I believe is where the truth lies.

by Patience 19.06.16 0:01

I've not had time to read through this whole thread so this may have already been posted. (apologies if it has)

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Quite a guest list.......

by Guest 19.06.16 0:14

For those who haven't the doubtful pleasure of access to gospel according to St. Katherine, here in her own words the unforgettable acquaintance with Sir Clement Froid..

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

About the book..

My reason for writing it is simple: to give an account of the truth ...

Dear McCanns,

I have a house in P da L, been ashamed of the intrusion to your lives by our media .
. . and if you would care to come to lunch/dinner at any time before Wednesday next, do ring and let me know.
I cook decent meals.

Sincerely,
Clement Freud

I’m embarrassed to admit that Gerry and I thought this letter was a hoax; more embarrassing still, while we were vaguely aware of Sir Clement, we had to have our memories refreshed by Sandy and Justine before we could place him exactly. Mind you, he wore so many hats – humorist, MP, gourmet, gambler, press columnist, advertiser of dog food, radio and TV personality – that he was hard to pin down.

Gerry responded with a phone call and Sir Clement invited the seven of us there at that time – Gerry and myself with Sean and Amelie, plus Trisha, Sandy and Justine – to lunch the following day. He would be heading back to the UK a few hours later. Sir Clement was eighty-three by then, but his intellect was still razor-sharp (he was appearing on the demanding Radio 4 panel game Just a Minute right up to his death in 2009).

I’m usually very intimidated by people with brains the size of planets, but Clement was incredibly warm, funny and instantly likeable. His opening words weren ‘Can I interest you in a strawberry vodka?’ It was midday. I hesitated for a split second, rapidly trying to work out if he was joking. His expression, as always, was deadpan. Not wanting to appear unsociable, I responded, ‘Er, OK then. That would be nice.’ Of course, Clement’s remark about cooking decent meals was tongue-in-cheek: among his other accomplishments, he had trained as a chef and was for many years a food writer and restaurant critic.

I can confirm that the lunch he prepared for us that day was bloody marvellous: watercress and egg salad followed by a chicken and mushroom risotto – the best risotto we’ve ever tasted before or since.

Clement cheered us up with his lugubrious wit, and would continue to do so by email after his return to England.....

Clement Freud returned to Praia da Luz on 31 August and called Gerry that day. ‘Is it true, Gerry?’ he said, without preamble.

‘What’s that, Clement?’

‘That you’re close to a breakdown and needing medication?’

Very funny.
‘I have a lot of empathy with the Express though, you know,’ he went on.

For a split second Gerry thought he was serious. ‘Why’s that?’

‘Well, you see, we both suffer from poor circulation'.

Thank God for people like Clement who kept us smiling.

[beginning of September 2007]..

Our plans for the evening went out of the window. We cancelled an interview we were scheduled to give Paris Match and dinner with Clement Freud....

At 9.50pm, I rang Clement. ‘Come on round,’ he said. ‘It’ll be nice to see you. But you’ll have to forgive my night-time attire.’

We found Clement watching a cookery programme, dressed, as promised, in his nightshirt. It was so ordinary and comforting, a bit like going to see your grandad after a horrible day at school. He gave me one of his looks and a giant glass of brandy, and managed to get a smile out of me with his greeting: ‘So, Kate, which of the devout Catholic, alcoholic, depressed, nymphomaniac parts is correct?’

His response to our catalogue of horrors was merely to raise an eyebrow. Clement had this way of making everything seem a little less terrible. When he heard about the dogs, he remarked laconically, ‘So what are they going to do? Put them on the stand? One bark for yes, two for no?’ He was right, of course; it was ridiculous.

A couple of hours later, fortified by our brandies (it was my first-ever taste of the stuff), some useful snippets of advice and several amusing anecdotes, we left our friend feeling quite a bit better than we had when we’d arrived. The shock of that day, and of what we were now facing, on top of the trauma of Madeleine’s absence, never left us for a second, but it was interludes like this that gave us just enough strength to carry on...

THE END

by MayMuse 19.06.16 0:17

Patience wrote:I've not had time to read through this whole thread so this may have already been posted. (apologies if it has)

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Quite a guest list.......

Well well the one that jumped out was Rebekah Brooks!!! Indeed it is quite a guest list with many recognisable figures; wonder what they all think of this apparently "new" revelation of CF?

by Guest 19.06.16 0:59

whodunit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Verdi wrote:From what's been uncovered so far, it would appear Clement Freud had a penchant for teenage girls - not three year old children.
Yep.

Hence my question the other day.

This is more paedo-ring fuel thrown on the the fire.

But there's those pesky dogs.

1. Nobody that I know of is suggesting that Freud is guilty of personally attacking MBM.
2. Yes, more pedo-ring fuel on the fire. Grooming children as young as ten but waiting to until they're teens to have intercourse with them does not rule out this person having a circle of friends who have 'different' preferences.
3. Pedo-ring fuel and death evidence are not mutually exclusive.

Again, I urge EVERYONE to read the testimony of Nancy Krebs, CSA victim and witness in the Ramsey case. Her statements reveal the inner workings of these groups, how they operate, WHY they operate...It is very instructive. Just FYI not all child sex traffickers and makers and purveyors of child porn are pedophiles, or rather it is a not a prerequisite. All that is needed is an evil desire for obscene profits and no scruples whatsoever.

Aside from minute detail about the JonBenet Ramsey case, I've no doubt the majority of readers are fully aware of the points you make. I do however feel you are running away with yourself.

The news about Clement Freud is but a few days old and already you've built him into a massive conspiracy theory based only on UK media reports. Speaking personally, I prefer to wait for the dust to settle before forming an opinion on a press report - more so a tabloid press report. From prior knowledge, the McCanns and their PR machine are usually behind UK media hype.

by Guest 19.06.16 1:06

As I think suggested up-thread by Tony - any chance the subject of ~~Clarence~~ Clement Freud can be moved to pride of place? The lengthy current title's giving me brain ache.

roses

by katkat 19.06.16 1:23

PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.

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'PLOUGH AND PAEDO' Clement Freud drank with Madeleine McCann suspect. . . and at perv pub with child sex beast ‘DJ Shifty’
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
Exclusive
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
18th June 2016, 8:27 pm
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PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.

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Rex Features
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Paedo Freud…drank with former prime suspect in McCanns case
Freud, who was unmasked as a child abuser last week, was also a regular at a pub in Praia da Luz dubbed The Plough and Paedophile.
The fact Freud and Murat knew each other is one in a series of odd links that the dead former Liberal MP had to the McCanns.
He had also entertained Gerry and Kate at his house in the days after Madeleine disappeared in 2007.

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PA:Press Association
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Prime suspect…Murat was later cleared by cops
Murat, 43, lived close to the apartment where the three-year-old was snatched. He was named a as a suspect by Portuguese police, but later cleared of any involvement. And Freud’s Casa da Colina villa in the resort is a few hundred yards from a key sighting of Madeleine.
A Brit said that he saw a man carrying a little girl in the early hours of May 4, 2007.
The villa is also dwarfed by a huge hill that Kate, 47, was once convinced was where Madeleine was buried and begged cops to have it searched.

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Jamie Lorriman
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The Pigs Head…pub where Freud and Murat frequented
Her plea came in July 2007, when Freud befriended the McCanns.
Robert Hurst, landlord of the Pigs Head, said: “I find that really odd. I can’t imagine why he would suddenly want to invite them to his house.
“At the time Madeleine went, all hell was going on. Police everywhere, people just stunned and he’s straight in there having them over to dinner.
“When it came out this week that he was a paedophile, it made you wonder what he was up to?”
Freud, who was revealed in an ITV documentary to have abused girls as young as ten, also visited the nearby Plough and Harrow.

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Missing ‘DJ Shifty’…went on run and is still being hunted
It was nicknamed the Plough and Paedophile after a Brit working there dubbed DJ Shifty went on the run when cops tried to speak to him over alleged grooming and child sex abuse images.
Christian Ridout, 32, whose parents owned the bar and lived next door to Murat, has never been traced.
In her book about Madeleine, Kate told how Freud, then 83, sent a letter out of the blue inviting them to his house for a meal.

NEWSFLASH - The late Sir Clement Freud, resident of Praia da Luz and friend of the McCanns, exposed as a serial paedophile, Lady Freud apologises, Operation Grange to investigate McCann-Freud links (Daily Telegraph 14 Jun 2016)