Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

by polyenne 06.06.17 19:49

HideHo, it is such a HUMUNGOUS thing they've (all) done, that at one point, I almost convinced myself that it was designed to be a huge establishment exercise to understand how the great British public, and other unwitting parties (mainly Portuguese) would react to such an avalanche of disinformation, obfuscation and downright lies.

As it turned out, some are gullible (me initially), many give money but some (as I have) become a bit more suspicious and switched on.

Is it a practice run for some future event ?

by Guest 06.06.17 22:01

Yorkshirgel wrote:....and as long as gullible people keep on giving because they believe them the longer this farce will carry on. Now they can afford to live the high life....on the back of their daughter of course.

I doubt very much the gullible public are still giving - that income source dried up many many months ago. The Find Madeleine Fund income bears witness to that simple fact.

On a wing and a prayer is the situation they find themselves in. Alas, Madeleine doesn't even have that to cling to.

by Guest 06.06.17 22:25

Yorkshirgel wrote:Any evidence that is available. Whatever is found in the police files for all to see. I was not meaning anyone in particular just people in general. You have to go by what is in front of you. I would equate it to a detective trying to fit the evidence and bend it to what he thinks might have happened instead of allowing the evidence to show the way.

Pleased to hear it!

The only people I'm aware of that "cherry pick" are a) those who can't be bothered to check their facts so are floundering b) those who, for whatever reason, refuse to accept what's presented in the form of evidence and c) members of the McCann defence league who have an agenda.

That aside, off topic - again, so I'll resist the temptation to elaborate.

by jazega 06.06.17 23:19

HiDeHo wrote:Personally I don't doubt the possibility that he visited but it was nothing to do with any of the reasons in the statements.

Thursday evening was the culmination of the preparation for the 'abduction'.

The T7 had just returned from the Paraiso, Gerry was playing tennis (according to the tennis coach as I recall) and David Payne likely went to the apartment to help with preparations.

What we hear in the statements is a scenario created to redirect from what really WAS happening...

They all had their activities/alibis for that night planned, but unfortunately, Fiona Payne didnt have hers quite right and the police picked up on it, by having her admit she really didn't know what David Payne was doing during that time...

The contradictions tell us they were trying to hide the truth...

The reality was likely that the abduction plan as being put into place...

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The enormity of the list (great list Tony) shows how difficult it is to have every detail in place when there is more than one person involved.

Contradictions/discrepancies like this started happening on Tuesday morning. Tells me there was something they were trying to hide as early in the week as that...

We know from the police files that she died, so WHY were they trying to hide the truth so early in the week?

IMO,one factor could be that it would give them and others outside the tapas group more time to work out how to dispose of the body,in a way that it would not physically exist.There had to be no remains of a body,hence the help of " outsiders"
Their logic,no dead body she is still alive.However KEELA & EDDIE indicated otherwise.

by Guest 07.06.17 1:43

From where I'm standing, the documented weeks activities up until late afternoon on Thursday 3rd May 2007, as related by the McCanns and their group of friends, was wholly designed to disguise Madeleine McCann's absence during the week - including the groups visit to the beach and their short time at the Paraiso restaurant, minus the McCann faction, plus the conflicting tales of Madeleine's whereabouts during that day.

From late afternoon on Thursday 3rd May - the children's alleged high tea at the Tapas, featuring fictitious eye witnesses, followed by David Payne's claimed visit to apartment 5a (at various times and for a variety of reasons, depending on which version you read), were essentially designed to place a healthy living Madeleine in and around apartment 5a on that evening in preparation of the planned abduction theory and the alert on or around 10:00 pm.

Although the net result be intertwined, the two are distinctly separate by intention.

by roz 07.06.17 8:25

If Kate had decided to take a shower while the children were playing in the apartment, then that patio door would have to have been locked first.
I think if DP had entered that (locked) apartment and Kate was wrapped in a white towel, he would have been able to answer as to what she was ‘wearing’.
As others have said, this visit was invented to have a nice clean ‘live’ Madeleine playing contentedly with her brother and sister that evening before bed.
Without that ‘angelic picture’, we would be left with an image of a (normally lively) 4 year old being so tired after the crèche, that she had to be carried at 5.30pm to the apartment (according to K and G).
Perhaps Fiona P called in whilst she was out ‘jogging’. At the very least, if I was such a good friend to Kate as Fiona supposedly was, I would have called in to see why Kate and the children were not out at the play area, or watching the men at their tennis.
I imagine that if the final preparations were being put in place, (whether I knew or not about the impending ‘abduction’) I would have found an emotionally upset Kate inside that apartment.
I would be very reluctant to tell the police of this visit if my friend’s daughter was later ‘abducted’.

by polyenne 07.06.17 8:46

I find it hard to believe that, if Madeleine met her demise on the Sunday/Monday, that many, if not all of the Tapas 7 (perhaps with the exception of DW) would not be aware.

Even by taking meals separately, I cannot comprehend that they had an excuse for every day. I mean, they had to plan the abduction - that wasn't done in a few hours on the Thursday.

by Yorkshirgel 07.06.17 9:43

What I do not understand is that the friends all gathered round to support the parents. Why didn't someone have the guts to speak out and say what was being told to the police was not entirely accurate? The people playing with GM were witnesses, they could have said what went on re: GM and DP at the tennis court.

Why would any man carry on playing tennis and ask another man to go and check on his wife 'to see if she was alright'? Seems a strange thing to do to me.

I know that the Tapas crowd were given thousands of £s but I have not seen much said about it in the papers or the tv. I wonder if they are still 'friends'? They have all met up in England to discuss the case and their opinions of what happened in Praia da Luz. Personally I would want to distance myself from it all. You do not go on holiday to be questioned by police and put on the spot by so called 'friends'.

by polyenne 07.06.17 9:49

Personally I would want to distance myself from it all

They've certainly done that. I'm sure the meeting back in the UK was just prior to the Rogatory Interviews so that they could all get their stories right. Please correct me if wrong

by Yorkshirgel 07.06.17 9:58

I do not think you are wrong polyene! I think you are right. I wonder which colouring book they wrote their notes on this time?

I know about the meeting in England. Others know about the meeting, so the police must have known about the meeting too and yet they never asked any of the 'friends' what the meeting was about. Very strange. They could have asked why DP was asked to check on K while G carried on playing tennis while they were at it. I do not believe it ever happened. Nor do I believe there was an abduction either. But that is my opinion and, in a country that still has 'free speech', I am entitled to express it.

by Liz Eagles 07.06.17 10:44

If the Portuguese police can't fathom out the discrepancies in the statements and allowed the McCanns to leave their country whilst they were arguido status then that surely has to say a lot about the Portuguese investigation.

by Guest 07.06.17 10:52

"and allowed the McCanns to leave their country whilst they were arguido "

I never understood how that was allowed to happen.

by Liz Eagles 07.06.17 10:53

BlueBag wrote:
"and allowed the McCanns to leave their country whilst they were arguido "

I never understood how that was allowed to happen.

Me neither. What followed were the rogatory interviews and they didn't make sense either.

by polyenne 07.06.17 10:56

British Government pressure and meddling was why

by Liz Eagles 07.06.17 10:59

polyenne wrote:British Government pressure and meddling was why

Hold on a wee minute there, by de facto the Portuguese government is also complicit.

by polyenne 07.06.17 11:11

We did the bullying, they were bullied.

My Dad's bigger than your Dad.........................

by Yorkshirgel 07.06.17 11:22

It smells of avoiding a diplomatic incident to me. That is why they were allowed to come home. However, the arguedo label still stands as it has not been removed. So, how can they say they have been back to Portugal a few times without them being arrested? Interesting. We will not know for another 50 years, or maybe not then if the file gets 'accidentally shredded' which seems to be happening a lot these days when anything is sensitive for the British Government.

by Liz Eagles 07.06.17 11:26

Yorkshirgel wrote:It smells of avoiding a diplomatic incident to me. That is why they were allowed to come home. However, the arguedo label still stands as it has not been removed. So, how can they say they have been back to Portugal a few times without them being arrested? Interesting. We will not know for another 50 years if even then if the file gets 'accidentally shredded' which seems to be happening a lot these days when anything is sensitive for the British Government.

Arguido status was removed. It lasted for the limited amount of time allowed in Portuguese law.

by Guest 07.06.17 13:12

David Payne's rogatory interview - April 2008

".... but I remember then you know I went over to see err Gerry at the err you know tennis courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we'd, you know I'd come, come back to play tennis and err Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with Kate or you know again I can't remember the exact reason whether he was just making sure it was alright that he could stay there and you know more time but you know he'd asked me to pop in.

So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then [?] and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors.

The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there ...."

by **sandancer** 07.06.17 15:05

" You know we've looked obviously at photographs since then " ???

Err you know , what photographs have you err looked at and err since when ? You know !

" Just to reinforce they were just so happy , you know , seeing , you know obviously Gerry wasn't there "

Got to admit , I'd be happy if Gerry " obviously " wasn't there .

This man really has waffle , time wasting giving himself chance to think down to a fine art

All the " err, you know , you know " should tell anyone with any common sense that his " visit " was pure fiction , very badly constructed Fiction !

No wonder they've all kept quiet these past 10 years and didn't want to return for a reconstruction !

by Guest 07.06.17 17:01

Like a story from jackanory.

I only hope he's not like that with his patients.

...now let's see.. err.. hmm, well you know err... if I can just... you know err... you know... have a look .. pop yourself up... err you know where err... yeah there, that's good .. now let's see, err.. where was I? oh yeah that's right.. well I err... think you know... this might be the right time to ..err you know.. to ask for err ... err... err... a s s s second opinion .. I'm you know, struggling here so bear with me... mmmm.. let's... you know, have another look shall we err.. where did you say the pain is.. oh you didn't .. mmm I see, mmmm err... well I think at this stage.. you know I'm only putting this out there err.. I think it might be a good idea to take another look.. err you know I think we might be onto something here.. mmm I can't remember where... where was I? Oh yeah that's right... we're here aren't we... I could tell you what I ... you know... err... think but this is err you know ... not the right ... you ... err forum... err I think maybe err... you know ... maybe useful if we start back from the err ... start...

hello .. hello .. hello .. err .. are you still with me ... I need you to err .. you know ... to err wake up now err... I said wake up now thud

.......

by **Jill Havern** 07.06.17 18:18

Brilliant Verdi, thank you!

I was going to do a post like that, but you beat me to it!

How on earth do any of the Tapas doctors communicate with their patients?

by **sandancer** 07.06.17 18:28

Verdi wrote:Like a story from jackanory.

I only hope he's not like that with his patients.

...now let's see.. err.. hmm, well you know err... if I can just... you know err... you know... have a look .. pop yourself up... err you know where err... yeah there, that's good .. now let's see, err.. where was I? oh yeah that's right.. well I err... think you know... this might be the right time to ..err you know.. to ask for err ... err... err... a s s s second opinion .. I'm you know, struggling here so bear with me... mmmm.. let's... you know, have another look shall we err.. where did you say the pain is.. oh you didn't .. mmm I see, mmmm err... well I think at this stage.. you know I'm only putting this out there err.. I think it might be a good idea to take another look.. err you know I think we might be onto something here.. mmm I can't remember where... where was I? Oh yeah that's right... we're here aren't we... I could tell you what I ... you know... err... think but this is err you know ... not the right ... you ... err forum... err I think maybe err... you know ... maybe useful if we start back from the err ... start...

hello .. hello .. hello .. err .. are you still with me ... I need you to err .. you know ... to err wake up now err... I said wake up now .......

Spot on Verdi ! Are you sure you've never met him ?

Jackanory , or is it Crackanory ?

He makes Baldrick look intelligent .

If anyone ever does a remake of " Carry on Doctor " , D.P for lead role

Or how about Arkwright in " Open All Hours "

In front of Judge Judy " Umm is not an answer " r
In front of Judge Rinder " I can smell a lie like a fart in a lift "

Oh help , I really do need to get out more !! help

by Guest 07.06.17 21:39

Get'emGonçalo wrote:How on earth do any of the Tapas doctors communicate with their patients?

Why - sign language of course! Reference source..

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dance

by Guest 07.06.17 21:54

sandancer wrote:
Verdi wrote:Like a story from jackanory.

I only hope he's not like that with his patients.

...now let's see.. err.. hmm, well you know err... if I can just... you know err... you know... have a look .. pop yourself up... err you know where err... yeah there, that's good .. now let's see, err.. where was I? oh yeah that's right.. well I err... think you know... this might be the right time to ..err you know.. to ask for err ... err... err... a s s s second opinion .. I'm you know, struggling here so bear with me... mmmm.. let's... you know, have another look shall we err.. where did you say the pain is.. oh you didn't .. mmm I see, mmmm err... well I think at this stage.. you know I'm only putting this out there err.. I think it might be a good idea to take another look.. err you know I think we might be onto something here.. mmm I can't remember where... where was I? Oh yeah that's right... we're here aren't we... I could tell you what I ... you know... err... think but this is err you know ... not the right ... you ... err forum... err I think maybe err... you know ... maybe useful if we start back from the err ... start...

hello .. hello .. hello .. err .. are you still with me ... I need you to err .. you know ... to err wake up now err... I said wake up now .......

Spot on Verdi ! Are you sure you've never met him ?

Jackanory , or is it Crackanory ?

He makes Baldrick look intelligent .

If anyone ever does a remake of " Carry on Doctor " , D.P for lead role

Or how about Arkwright in " Open All Hours "

In front of Judge Judy " Umm is not an answer " r
In front of Judge Rinder " I can smell a lie like a fart in a lift "

Oh help , I really do need to get out more !!

Never met him? I am him yes

only believe me I can't make Baldrick look intelligent sad

.

'Carry on Doctor' - now there's a plan. Who can we have as matron.... hot lips Healy of clattypatties fame?

In fact, I think there's a part for all to play - even Gerald. I'll leave you to decide which that might be..

by sar 07.06.17 23:06

Yorkshirgel wrote:It smells of avoiding a diplomatic incident to me. That is why they were allowed to come home. However, the arguedo label still stands as it has not been removed. So, how can they say they have been back to Portugal a few times without them being arrested? Interesting. We will not know for another 50 years, or maybe not then if the file gets 'accidentally shredded' which seems to be happening a lot these days when anything is sensitive for the British Government.

this will be sealed for 100 years, sorry I won't be around when they open it, very pessimistic sadly. Some are files are sealed forever as I understand it? There is no "right to see" information as I understand it?

by **sandancer** 07.06.17 23:26

I've just been doing a bit of browsing on Doctor Payne .

No wonder the man went , err , Umm , you know , etc

He had 7 credit cards , 2 loans and a mortgage Hmmm !

by Guest 13.06.17 16:46

David Payne's witness statement - 4th May 2007 [snipped]..

That the apartment occupied by Madeleine's family comprises two bedrooms, a small kitchen, a lounge and a bathroom. That the lounge has a door which gives outside access in the direction of the restaurant. He does not recall any more details of the apartment but he remembers that the bedroom occupied by the children has a window that looks onto the main road. That he never went into the said bedroom occupied by the children but he could see that there were two beds and two cots. The cots were placed in the middle of the bedroom. One of the beds was placed against the window and the other, the one occupied by Madeleine, was against the wall facing the one which has a window.

Fiona Payne's witness statement - 4th May 2007 [snipped]..

She was never in Madeleine's family apartment.
----------

For someone who specifically states he's never entered the children's bedroom - that's a pretty detailed description, wouldn't you say? Makes you wonder why David Payne visited the McCanns apartment without his wife !?! Somewhere along the line, his rogatory interview I think, he said they (the Paynes) didn't spend much time with the rest of the group outside of dinner, as they were all off doing their own thing so I can't believe he called to make arrangements for group activities.

thinking

?

by Sinan19 02.09.17 12:07

I think it was fabricated on a whim just so there would be someone who could claim they have seen Madeleine well and alive before her 'abduction', thus the contradiction statements. Maybe they just agreed on saying he stopped by, with no time to discuss it any further, each of them interpreted 'stopping by' differently. For Kate it meant, and so she recounted, he was only at the door and they talked for 30 seconds before she sent him away - if he has seen Madeleine was never mentioned by her, which is sort of dumb, but well. Payne interpreted stopping by as stepping in and getting a good picture of the situation. As they realized none of it was adding up, they became nervous and tried to fix what was fixable. Which wasn't much. I mean either he went in or he didn't. Which is it? Definitely never took place. That statement's only use was to make police believe there was nothing out of the ordinary going on at 5A.

by Yorkshirgel 03.09.17 8:37

So many contradictions in this case. As this poor little girl's father said 'confusion is good'! I am sure that if some female had come to the door in just a bath towel a man would have remembered it well. Many 'after event' excuses made by way of explaining away evidence that did not add up. I agree with Sinan19, it never happened. It was so that they could make out that there were '3 little angels' there in the apartment at that time.

I am afraid that everything has now gone quiet and these people are going to walk away hand in hand, in to the sunshine. The police are dragging their feet and asking for even more money! If they cannot work it out they should come home imo.

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