Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[nobodythereeither]

Woof, woof, woof. Erm, excuse me (cough, cough) - but did someone mention a lost pink blanket........???

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[Issy]

No bother guys and thank you for the thanks. I wonder will there be helicopters at dawn tomorrow.

I can't see the McCanns ever setting foot in Luz again, it's as if a line has been crossed and people can't take any more.

When you think of it, it's extraordinary that one couple have managed to do so much damage to so many people simply because they followed their own selfish wish to wine and dine with their friends instead of staying in the apartment to look after their 3 lovely children. I can only imagine what the people of PdL must think every time they hear their names.

There is no proof at the moment that the children were left on their own all evening, only the words of the McCanns and their Tapas friends.

Neglect of the child/children opens the opportunity of "abduction"

No neglect = ??????? a child disappears

Yes I Newintown I tend to lean towards the idea that the McCanns didn't leave the children alone, they said they did to allow the abduction theory.  I'll hazard a guess that the children were all in one room being 'cared' for by the tapas crew, taking it in turns each evening or perhaps a nanny babysitting them ie Charlotte Pennington.

Naturally only the people concerned can say whether the children were left on their own all evening or not, but we already know that Madeleine was heard crying for a long time on a previous evening by Mrs Fenn, and the crying only stopped when someone returned. I can't see their friends (some of whom they didn't even know very well) allowing the authorities to believe the usual routine was for all of them to leave the children alone, with only periodic checks, if in fact this wasn't so. I doubt they would've known whether leaving such young children alone in apartments was or was not an offence in Portugal.

The rogatory statements make very interesting reading, especially Fiona Payne's where she explained how Kate mooted the bright idea of leaving a door unlocked so Madeleine, if she woke up, could leave the apartment and go looking for her parents. Since this reflects badly on Kate McCann (what sane parent would want a 3-year-old wandering round a holiday complex at night?) im sure this is no invention on Fiona's part, but is a truthful account of what the McCanns proposed doing. Children alone, door unlocked, child could get out. And maybe that's what happened, maybe Madeleine did get out and something - no way of knowing what - happened to her outside the apartment, something that led to her eventual disappearance. The fact that very strenuous efforts were made to convince everyone that she'd been 'snatched from her bed', that the opened window was proof that someone had come in and/or out that way, has always made me think that no one must be allowed to think the opposite, ie that whatever happened to her happened when she'd left the apartment through the door so thoughtfully left unlocked for that very purpose.

I could, of course, be completely wrong!

[coati mundi]

I haven't posted in a few weeks but recent developments have made me very interested again.

It seems to me that there has been a change in the way that the press is now reporting this and the most significant is the use of the word "disappeared" rather than "abducted" in every report that I have seen in the last week. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I also think that the silence of the ****** (not quite rhymes with the film title) speaks volumes. They have put defensive comments on their site, but have not mounted the usual press campaign that that accompanies "developments".

Their "sanctimonious people" comment is offensive to all parents.

I realise that there are differing opinions as to whether or not the SY operation has been a whitewash, and I have been unsure about which side of the fence I fell on that. I tended to believe that there were no circumstances in which the likely perpetrators would be called to account.

However, recent events have made a few things clear, and these are:

1. The police forces - (more importantly the SY) now, sadly, believe that the girl is dead.

2. They are either searching for a body or evidence of a body having been deposited in Praia Da Luz.

3. They are searching in the places that they are because they have some kind of intelligence that suggests they might find something. To  search randomly just to put on a show would open them to all sorts of ridicule, and questions would have be asked about reasons, cost, etc, if it had been a put-on farce.

4. The charade maintained by a certain couple that the disappeared person may still be alive and that funds being raised for the supposed purpose of "finding" her is now entirely discredited. No-one must surely believe that we are looking at anything other than the very unfortunate death of the young girl.

5. It does seem that, for whatever reason, SY want as quick a solution as possible. I would say, though, to those who lean towards the whitewash tendency, do you not accept that, since the search has gone back to Praia Da Luz ( and near to where she was last seen) it has focussed the event back to the night of her disappearance and to where she disppeared? Will there be any more wild sightings, from Morocco to Ireland?

6. Whatever the outcome of this, I think it has changed public perception of this case, and as a result public perception of the McCs.

I quote my man Antonio Gramsci again: "Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will."

[russiandoll]

The Mcs' very bizarre and incongruous FB message thanking people for supporting their efforts to bring Madeleine home, under the present circumstances , made me do a double- take, but I had read it correctly.

 Surreal stuff.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

The Mcs' very bizarre and incongruous FB message thanking people for supporting their efforts to bring Madeleine home, under the present circumstances , made me do a double- take, but I had read it correctly.

 Surreal stuff.

And is now reproduced word for word in The Guardian.

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[Newintown]

Coati mundi at 11.53 p.m. said

5. It does seem that, for whatever reason, SY want as quick a solution as possible. I would say, though, to those who lean towards the whitewash tendency, do you not accept that, since the search has gone back to Praia Da Luz ( and near to where she was last seen) it has focussed the event back to the night of her disappearance and to where she disppeared? Will there be any more wild sightings, from Morocco to Ireland?[/i]
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It does seem odd that no sightings of Madeleine have been shouted from the roof tops for the past year or so; maybe SY have told the "person(s)" who do all the "shouting" to STFUP or they'll be slapped in jail on a charge of perverting the course of justice.

[Woofer]

I`m now convinced this dig is not for show .... BUT .....  I betcha it won`t lead to the parents.   

Sorry guys, I find its always best to be pessimistic.

[nobodythereeither]

The Mcs' very bizarre and incongruous FB message thanking people for supporting their efforts to bring Madeleine home, under the present circumstances , made me do a double- take, but I had read it correctly.

 Surreal stuff.

And is now reproduced word for word in The Guardian.

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Yep - the Guardian seems to have finally cottoned on to a few things ... or at least, feels it's now safe to put them out there .....

[Newintown]

The Mcs' very bizarre and incongruous FB message thanking people for supporting their efforts to bring Madeleine home, under the present circumstances , made me do a double- take, but I had read it correctly.

 Surreal stuff.

And is now reproduced word for word in The Guardian.

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Glood grief, what a shambles of a press report.  I don't think I've ever read anything like that in all the 7 years Madeleine has been missing.  Obviously the press don't seem to have any qualms at the moment in telling it "as it is" along with printing the words straight out of the mouths of the McCanns "spokespersons".   

[sweetex]

What a load of BS???     

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English Police say that Maddie McCann assassins are Portuguese and are involved in drug trafficking

by Tânia Laranjo/Rui Pando Gomes

They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking. The English police states that they assaulted the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, in Lagos, and killed Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007.

The phone calls made before and after the crime were used as evidence to support the searches that have been ongoing since Monday.

Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.

They want to hear the three suspects, but they still lack the evidence to support the claim.

“Those who are going to commit a robbery do not travel on foot and they will not abandon a body so close to the crime scene. Moreover, there were no signs of forced entry at the apartment”, said Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector who investigated the case and considers that this new theory is not credible.

This version is, incidentally, one among others contained in the letter rogatory which determined that the searches would take place. Though it is the strongest, the British open the door to other possibilities. Other five suspects are listed, they also have a criminal record for theft. 

Seven years after the disappearance, the British police now guarantees to the Public Prosecutor's Office that their claim was well founded. The description given by a British holidaymaker coincides with one of the suspects who lives nearby. The woman saw him speaking in English on the phone, as he passed, carrying the child in his arms.

[Truthmustout]

Norwegian News

Pieces of Madeleine Mccann Clothes may have been found and the police is asking for an extra week

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[waiting for justice]

Let's hope that's BS sweet ex. 

I mean first things first, one minute they're looking for sex attackers on other girls in the area, the next 3 drugs traffickers? 
That theory still isn't as obvious to trigger a search from all the facts as is our theory to the real culprits. 

If the 3 were all Portuguese, why speak in English? 

Could be a smoke screen? I mean they can't slip out that the people they "think" perhaps more likely to have done it are clearly going about business as usual. They need some shred of proof first. 

I noticed on the sky news update last night (can't seem to c&p it) one of the links to the whole timeline, 07 - today. It was very IMO anti Mc. 
Lots of dated payments ref libel, meeting the pope etc. lots of mundane key timings missing though.

[sweetex]

Let's hope that's BS sweet ex. 

I mean first things first, one minute they're looking for sex attackers on other girls in the area, the next 3 drugs traffickers? 
That theory still isn't as obvious to trigger a search from all the facts as is our theory to the real culprits. 

If the 3 were all Portuguese, why speak in English? 

Could be a smoke screen? I mean they can't slip out that the people they "think" perhaps more likely to have done it are clearly going about business as usual. They need some shred of proof first. 

I noticed on the sky news update last night (can't seem to c&p it) one of the links to the whole timeline, 07 - today. It was very IMO anti Mc. 
Lots of dated payments ref libel, meeting the pope etc. lots of mundane key timings missing though.

I agree -    only after I posted it, I realised it could be a smokescreen. I am very positive that the truth will come out.  I can't see a whitewash happening. Not with all the publicity and money spent on this operation. 

To me it is significant that AR is on site. Maybe not all the time, but he shows face every now and then. And no, I don't think it is for the show. There is a good reason for this.

[Sonmi-451]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May? Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

[Ashwarya]

The Mcs' very bizarre and incongruous FB message thanking people for supporting their efforts to bring Madeleine home, under the present circumstances , made me do a double- take, but I had read it correctly.

 Surreal stuff.

And is now reproduced word for word in The Guardian.

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Wonderful to see their own words coming back to bite them on the backside.  The quotation direct from the OFM site was surely only intended to cheer on the shills and sycophants, not to be seen by the general public who might be shocked at such venom.  Hooray for the Guardian.


I am a natural pessimist but I think the fact that the search has now come back full circle to where it all started is very good news.  Praia da Luz is the only place where the truth is likely to be found.  Poor Maddie.

[SchrodingersBody]

What a load of BS???     

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English Police say that Maddie McCann assassins are Portuguese and are involved in drug trafficking

by Tânia Laranjo/Rui Pando Gomes

They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking. The English police states that they assaulted the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, in Lagos, and killed Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007.

The phone calls made before and after the crime were used as evidence to support the searches that have been ongoing since Monday.

Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.

They want to hear the three suspects, but they still lack the evidence to support the claim.

“Those who are going to commit a robbery do not travel on foot and they will not abandon a body so close to the crime scene. Moreover, there were no signs of forced entry at the apartment”, said Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector who investigated the case and considers that this new theory is not credible.

This version is, incidentally, one among others contained in the letter rogatory which determined that the searches would take place. Though it is the strongest, the British open the door to other possibilities. Other five suspects are listed, they also have a criminal record for theft. 

Seven years after the disappearance, the British police now guarantees to the Public Prosecutor's Office that their claim was well founded. The description given by a British holidaymaker coincides with one of the suspects who lives nearby. The woman saw him speaking in English on the phone, as he passed, carrying the child in his arms.

They can dig for jelly babies, and theorise Ronald McDonald abducted her for all I care, if that digging leads to a discovery, which points them in the direction of the real perpetrators, then it's all good and everyone will forget about jelly babies. The theory just has to be good enough for the relevant judge to let them get their spades out.

[Woofer]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

It was my immediate thought as well and could explain an awful lot.

[Tangled Web]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

It was my immediate thought as well and could explain an awful lot.

I agree, drugs being involved would explain a few things.

ETA "It's a disaster!!!"

[stillsloppingout]

No bother guys and thank you for the thanks. I wonder will there be helicopters at dawn tomorrow.

I can't see the McCanns ever setting foot in Luz again, it's as if a line has been crossed and people can't take any more.

When you think of it, it's extraordinary that one couple have managed to do so much damage to so many people simply because they followed their own selfish wish to wine and dine with their friends instead of staying in the apartment to look after their 3 lovely children. I can only imagine what the people of PdL must think every time they hear their names.

There is no proof at the moment that the children were left on their own all evening, only the words of the McCanns and their Tapas friends.

Neglect of the child/children opens the opportunity of "abduction"

No neglect = ??????? a child disappears

Yes I Newintown I tend to lean towards the idea that the McCanns didn't leave the children alone, they said they did to allow the abduction theory.  I'll hazard a guess that the children were all in one room being 'cared' for by the tapas crew, taking it in turns each evening or perhaps a nanny babysitting them ie Charlotte Pennington.

Naturally only the people concerned can say whether the children were left on their own all evening or not, but we already know that Madeleine was heard crying for a long time on a previous evening by Mrs Fenn, and the crying only stopped when someone returned. I can't see their friends (some of whom they didn't even know very well) allowing the authorities to believe the usual routine was for all of them to leave the children alone, with only periodic checks, if in fact this wasn't so. I doubt they would've known whether leaving such young children alone in apartments was or was not an offence in Portugal.

The rogatory statements make very interesting reading, especially Fiona Payne's where she explained how Kate mooted the bright idea of leaving a door unlocked so Madeleine, if she woke up, could leave the apartment and go looking for her parents. Since this reflects badly on Kate McCann (what sane parent would want a 3-year-old wandering round a holiday complex at night?) im sure this is no invention on Fiona's part, but is a truthful account of what the McCanns proposed doing. Children alone, door unlocked, child could get out. And maybe that's what happened, maybe Madeleine did get out and something - no way of knowing what - happened to her outside the apartment, something that led to her eventual disappearance. The fact that very strenuous efforts were made to convince everyone that she'd been 'snatched from her bed', that the opened window was proof that someone had come in and/or out that way, has always made me think that no one must be allowed to think the opposite, ie that whatever happened to her happened when she'd left the apartment through the door so thoughtfully left unlocked for that very purpose.

I could, of course, be completely wrong!

No she could not have woke and wandered , what unlocked door ? [ only there word to fit abduction theory , there is no way it was unlocked ]  as there was a gate on the stairs which she could not  have opened alone . What opened window ? and there were no shelves btw !!

[russiandoll]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

[ChippyM]

The latest drug dealer bogey men theory does nothing to explain the Gaspar statement, or as others have said how a child was taken, killed and disposed of so quickly.

  I also don't get why if this was drug dealers they would bother hiding a body so well, I would have thought these people operate on fear and would want to leave some kind of visible 'message'.

[russiandoll]

It is confusing isn't it, this abandoned body which was never discovered and also a person witnessing a man speaking English on a mobile phone while carrying a presumably female child.... quite possibly the latter is a lead police have followed. If this is true and there is no mention of a foreign accent, then it sounds like the man was British.

 Whoever was carrying the child at 10 pm almost certainly had a phone in his trouser pocket.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

It makes no sense that a British witness saw a guy go into the scrubland, flee, and then say nothing to the police for 7 years even though there was a worldwide search for a missing girl. I'm calling bull on it.

Redwood isn't saying even one word to the British journalists, he only shakes his head when asked for information.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

It is confusing isn't it, this abandoned body which was never discovered and also a person witnessing a man speaking English on a mobile phone while carrying a presumably female child.... quite possibly the latter is a lead police have followed. If this is true and there is no mention of a foreign accent, then it sounds like the man was British.

 Whoever was carrying the child at 10 pm almost certainly had a phone in his trouser pocket.

"I was seen, you need to get together and agree a timeline, the alert has to be after 10!"

[sallypelt]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

[quote="russiandoll "]If he fled before he could bury the cadaver....

Well, the McCann's sorted that little problem out. They recovered the body and put it in a car......................didn't they?

What a ludicrous non-story. It's well-known that if the police etc don't feed the newspapers with information, the newspapers will print any bull. This way they hope to get SOMETHING out of the police. This is a common tactic. So, take heart from the fact, the less the newspapers are kept informed of progress, the more bizarre the stories that they print will be.

[Guest]

So, we've had the sighting, the running, the charity appearance, the tv sofas and the new random suspect. Are we due another sighting next?

[Cristobell]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

No rumour Sonmi, mobile phones were delivered to the McCanns and tapas group by a friend of David Payne as they waited in police station on 4th May

[Guest]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

Not only that - the implication is that this guy is still there, practically watching the digs, and SY are powerless to do anything about him.

I wonder if the many connections between Ireland, Leicestershire and PdL also amount to an informal courier network?

[tigger]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

Not only that - the implication is that this guy is still there, practically watching the digs, and SY are powerless to do anything about him.

I wonder if the many connections between Ireland, Leicestershire and PdL also amount to an informal courier network?

I don't understand?  (Je ne comprend pas errm du tout errm for Figaro..  )

[russiandoll]

So, we've had the sighting, the running, the charity appearance, the tv sofas and the new random suspect. Are we due another sighting next?

 With what is in front of the world's eyes in PdL I doubt that there will be any sightings. I note the holiday packs are still on sale.

 It would be more dignified and realistic now if the store was pulled from that site. Madeleine is without the shadow of a doubt dead and I can only hope that she is found soon so that she can have the dignity of a burial and a resting place she deserves.