Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

by ultimaThule 01.06.14 3:43

aiyoyo wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:It seems to me that, stripped of all of the ornate plaster curlicues which have been attached to it over the years, what we are looking at is the age old story of a crime for gain, bobbin

So is this a case of why dunnit and not who dunnit ?

Imo there's no mystery as to why they dunnit, aiyoyo, and, given that there would be no need to conceal the body if she'd met with a fatal accident, all that remains to be established is who caused the child's death

However, as there's no bar to convicting more than one party of causing the death of the same individual, there's no reason why justice can't be done in this case as it has been others where there has been an absence of a body and no certainty as to the identity of the killer. .

by Bishop Brennan 01.06.14 4:59

PeterMac wrote: ... or to get the quote right - which is even more powerful in its raw form

Reply ”There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…” [sputters to a halt as he realises the full horror of what he has just said]

Without doubt one of the all-time classic quotes of the mystery. For those who finish building the lego set, perhaps a game afterwards would be in order? I remember this one rather cruelly being suggested on another forum way back.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by ultimaThule 01.06.14 5:18

PeterMac wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:Imo even if this crew were rehearsed to the nth degree, they'll all fluff their lines in the spotlight of cross examination.
The Libel trial lot even had their lines written out either by them or for them, and STILL fluffed them.

I can understand their not getting it right on the first night, but by the time of the rogatories you would have thought the Rothley secret meeting would have sorted it out.
But apparently not.
Could it be that some of them have consciences which do not permit them to go beyond a certain point ?
Or that weighing up what they were being asked to say, they realised that "Conspiracy to Pervert" was a real possibility,
and so started to gibber and dribble at that point.

On 'one reading of the evidence' it would seem that theTapas 7 are predominantly a self-entitled bunch of narcissists who felt no compunction about telling untruths to the PJ because they considered themselves to be above Portuguese law, and that apparent collective self-view has no doubt been compounded by the passing of years with no discernible knock on the door which has required them to individually account for the discrepancies in various of the statements each of them have made.

It's probable they have appraised themselves of the penalty if found guilty of conspiring to pervert Portuguese justice but, such would seem to be their disregard for the laws of Portugal, I suspect that only a charge of conspiracy which requires them to appear in an English court of law is likely to concentrate their minds on the desirability of self-preservation.

They may be lacking in conscience but they all possess necks and if it comes to sacrificing theirs to save the McCanns, I very much doubt that there'll be a Sydney Carton character among them.

by lj 01.06.14 8:56

missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggers are looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Maybe they know it's all for show

iow whitewash

I'll get my coat ......................

by russiandoll 01.06.14 10:31

To play devil's advocate re this -

Reply ”There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…” [sputters to a halt as he realises the full horror of what he has just said]

It could be argued that the intelligent David P came out with those words because he knew where the police were going with their line of questioning ?

I am merely playing devil's advocate btw. I keep in mind the recent words from SY to the press :

Abduction might not follow with all our thinking on the case.

There is a possibility that Madeleine did not leave the apartment alive.

Taken together, the inference drawn is possible death in 5a or at least lying deceased for some time in 5a , then removal by a person or persons known to the child, not any type of stranger intruder, be the motivation burglary with accidental silencing of the awake child or entry with intent to abduct.

I would be pushed to believe in a whitewash after hearing those words from SY.

by **PeterMac** 01.06.14 10:53

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Markus 2 01.06.14 11:39

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

That is great needs to go out on a billboard, unfortunately there are so many of these whitewashes, it is called high level Freemasonry.

by bobbin 01.06.14 12:10

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Brilliant PM. I just done 3 hours of research and got no where, so this has put the 'smile' back into Sunday. What's that phrase, a picture can paint a story of a thousand words. big grin

by **PeterMac** 01.06.14 12:23

bobbin wrote:
Brilliant PM. I just done 3 hours of research and got no where, so this has put the 'smile' back into Sunday. What's that phrase, a picture can paint a story of a thousand words.

I think in this case
Paint can erase a thousand words.

by missmar1 01.06.14 13:08

lj wrote:
missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggers are looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Maybe they know it's all for show

iow whitewash

I'll get my coat ......................

Or it may be that if the digs turn up anything less than her DNA - by giving out that statement, the Mccann's have already put the idea into the minds of the public that unless Madeleine's actual DNA is found then there is always the future hope she is still alive and findable ? Gerry Mccann's comments, even at this stage of the digging, saying they are still hoping for a" happy outcome" - could mean they are hoping to keep the public on side and will continue to donate to the fund as long as their little girl's DNA is not found ? ..... imo, they know her DNA will never be found.

by Guest 01.06.14 14:50

DNA ...
As if, if the remains of the young girl, a pink blanket or white pyjamas would be unearthed, they could be anyone's ...

by lj 01.06.14 16:47

missmar1 wrote:
lj wrote:
missmar1 wrote:The Mccanns have travelled far and wide to give tv interviews during the last 7 years - they have sat on sofas and discussed their missing daughter over and over again and they have vowed never to give up the search for Madeleine. They have continually claimed there is no evidence that any harm has come to her, even now, with digging to commence, Gerry Mccann has stated they are still hoping for a happy outcome .

So why, would they not return to Portugal at the very time when some real and serious activity is taking place ? Possibly it could be said they would be too upset to be there while the diggers are looking for their childs body - yet they have always managed to maintain their stiff upper-lip attitude and attended many many activities over the years that has involved them talking about, and, participating in, events being held for their missing child - so why not go back this time ?

Imo they may be throwing down another gauntlet ? Remember Gerry Mccann snapping " find the body" to I think it was a reporter ? It may be that the close pal who said they would not return unless Madeleine's DNA is found, is knowingly/unknowingly passing on the gauntlet to the investigatotrs because possibly the Mccann's know their child's DNA is not going to be found during the digs ? In other words, is it another case of Gerry Mccann repeating " Find the body" ? because imo, the Mccann;s are saying no matter what the digs find, unless Madeleine's DNA is found, we will not accept she is dead. all my opinion only.

Maybe they know it's all for show

iow whitewash

I'll get my coat ......................

Or it may be that if the digs turn up anything less than her DNA - by giving out that statement, the Mccann's have already put the idea into the minds of the public that unless Madeleine's actual DNA is found then there is always the future hope she is still alive and findable ? Gerry Mccann's comments, even at this stage of the digging, saying they are still hoping for a" happy outcome" - could mean they are hoping to keep the public on side and will continue to donate to the fund as long as their little girl's DNA is not found ? ..... imo, they know her DNA will never be found.

One does not exclude the other......
Both are profitable for the McCanns

by **PeterMac** 01.06.14 16:58

Châtelaine wrote:DNA ...
As if, if the remains of the young girl, a pink blanket or white pyjamas would be unearthed, they could be anyone's ...

Well of course they could
Kate's own Charity - Missing People - has the details of 140,000 children missing each year. A town the size of Blackpool, or Slough, of the entire Isle of Wight !
Just whooshed off the face of the earth - according to them PLEASE GIVE GENEROUSLY
So after 7 years there must be nearly a million missing children and that's just from the UK !
At least a hundred or so must be in PdL

Or have I missed the point somewhere ?

by Guest 01.06.14 21:12

And, no, I never have the impression you miss a point ...

by rainbow-fairy 03.06.14 1:42

Have been re-reading an old book on the Moors Murders and this leapt out at me. Quite apt:

'....As the grim search had been going on, two mothers, united in their anxiety, stood in the drizzle and watched. Sheila Kilbride and Ann Downey, hoping, praying. Hopes that their children, their son, their daughter, might somehow, somewhere, by some miracle, still be alive; that this was all some long, ghastly nightmare. And prayers that if they were dead they could, at last, be peacefully laid to rest.' ~ from 'Devils Disciples' by Robert Wilson

Contrast with the McCanns who have steadfastly refused to be in Portugal while the digs go ahead.

I wonder how history will judge K+G's refusal?

by Guest 03.06.14 7:40

I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.

by **PeterMac** 03.06.14 7:53

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.

That will be interesting, because whatever happens the McCanns wil be left with a list of unexplained things.
Issues which refuse to be whooshed.

Their admitted gross neglect of the children for five nights in a row
Exacerbated by their continuing to abandon the children even after a specific complaint by one of them
Further exacerbated by "increasing" the regularity of the checks - to one per hour
The fact of their being no evidence of entry to the apartment
The fact of there being no evidence of presence in the apartment
The fact of their being no evidence of exit form the apartment - and even their on original "version" on the window and shutters they themselves dismissed as a red herring
The sedation of the remaining children
The succession of changes in their official stories
Their clear and proven lies about many important issues
The dogs
Their refusal to assist the police
Their dismissal of any PI who raised a metaphorical eyebrow at their official version
The setting up of the Fund with indecent haste
Their retaining of the best Libel lawyers in the world
Their retaining of the most famous Extradition lawyers in the country
The retaining of a spokesperson whose understanding of Truth is rudimentary
and so on through Last Photos, extended holidays, visits to world locations . . .

the list is a long one.

And none of these will go away, whatever the result of Grange or the PJ's re-opening of the case.

by **PeterMac** 03.06.14 7:58

And as someone has just pithily said in another place
Gerry is perfectly happy to return to Portugal if involves the chance of making large amounts of money
But not if it involves discovering what happened to Madeleine.

by plebgate 03.06.14 8:19

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.

Yes I do as well.

Someone on a different thread mentioned Kerry Needham going back when police decided to undertake a search last year for Ben. She was interviewed shaking like a leaf, worried about what might be found, be she insisted that she would not have stayed away no matter what might have been found.

by Guest 03.06.14 11:26

plebgate wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.
Yes I do as well.

Someone on a different thread mentioned Kerry Needham going back when police decided to undertake a search last year for Ben. She was interviewed shaking like a leaf, worried about what might be found, be she insisted that she would not have stayed away no matter what might have been found.

And the bereft parents in the Dutroux case here in Belgium: likewise

BTW: they didn't ask for a single sou from the generous Belgium people, who would have jumped in no end to be of assistance

by Praiaaa 03.06.14 18:13

plebgate wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I wonder how history will judge everything about this case.
Yes I do as well.

Someone on a different thread mentioned Kerry Needham going back when police decided to undertake a search last year for Ben. She was interviewed shaking like a leaf, worried about what might be found, be she insisted that she would not have stayed away no matter what might have been found.

Indeed. When my son went missing for a short time, aged 9, in a holiday place we knew well, because we had let him be independent and and take a different route, and he got lost, I can still feel the visceral, sheer agony of the lost half an hour. Not because we thought he might have been abducted, but because we had ben stupid enough to let him go via the ckiff path where he might have fallen and been injured. Even now, I have cold sweats, and if he HAD been missing I know I would have dug at that cliff with my bare hands and they would have not been able to drag me away from it.
So in this case, IMO, ANY parent would have been on the first plane out to Luz to watch the police and BE there, like Kerry Needham was.
Unless a) you knew they weren't there (how?)
(or... b) you knew/had been tipped off that it was a trap to get you there to arrest you...??? )