Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

by noddy100 07.05.14 8:43

Sky reporting this dig is based on info given to Portuguese in last 7 years

by Truthmustout 07.05.14 8:43

This are the digging areas, Also I have heard they will use a machine like the one Stephen Birch (spelling?) used, to see if there has been changes in the soil or diggede there before..

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by ChippyM 07.05.14 8:46

russiandoll wrote:
noddy100 wrote:Didn't Kate say the way she found the room ruled out woke and wandered

How Kate found 5a and its immediate outdoors area ruled that scenario out, in fact she felt that suggestion by police insulted her intelligence. How could a drowsy not yet 4 year old have taken the trouble to close everything behind her as she left? Kate found street-level gate, safety gate at top of steps, patio doors and curtains all closed when she went to check at 10 pm.

[ LK, who has ignored all Maddie related front pages in recent days, has mentioned the tabloid front pages without comment.]

There was a safety gate wasn't there, photographed in the police files? This is the kinds of basic thing I wish people commenting on the news stories at the moment would check.

Although it's a bit pointless because they probably won't read here, I would just like to add for the benefit off all those people too lazy to check basic facts. Chapter 5 of Amarals book, some nice photos of at least 3 sniffer dogs searchng the area around 5a after M went missing.

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by Snifferdog 07.05.14 8:53

So why are we having this flurry of ridiculous news leaked by the press already?! The Pj should already be banning the met from the beautiful shores of Praia da Luz, as the conditions of the Pj were no leaks/media circus....
The whole thing just gets more and more unbelievable. It seems that those putting out this 'news' really do not care what most people think, and may thinking - SO WHAT YA GONNA DO ABOUT IT THEN...

by paradigm67 07.05.14 8:55

russiandoll wrote:

Residents following this fast-developing story are intrigued. Said a former policeman: “Bearing in mind it is extremely difficult to bury a body at short notice in hard ground, this suggests that police are looking for something buried before May 3.

“Once Madeleine was reported missing, the village was crawling with journalists and search teams for weeks. No one could have buried anything.”

Former UK policeman or former PJ? Maybe this guy should be called back up to help with the investigation. Seems like the only good copper is a retired one. Meant that with all due respect PM!

by Nereid 07.05.14 8:56

The big plot will take ages to dig, I doubt that will happen. Probably a thin layer of compacted soil over bedrock. Like PeterMac says, only a JCB could dig there.
It belongs to Oceanico. They'll be grateful for the free digging of their site IF it goes ahead big grin

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by **Nina** 07.05.14 8:58

PeterMac wrote:Just out of interest, google maps shows a JCB on one of the named search areas, and a water bowser, reinforcing my view that the land is rock hard.
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You just cannot dig that sort of ground with a normal spade - even if you have got one.

Well done PeterMac, yes soak the hard land with water first, it does help with the digging, makes an awful mess though, always have to wear me wellies when doing just that. So add those to the spade, shovel, pickaxe, mattock list of requirements. Oh and need a roller as well to flatten the ground afterwards, and a random array of stones and general detritus, so spread around the place, or maybe just park a car over the area and leave it there.

by Guest 07.05.14 9:01

IMO they need to be taking there spades up to HUELVA.

Not long after that trip, didn't GM say 'find the body and prove we killed her'....

by mariola 07.05.14 9:05

Okeydokey wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:If the piece of waste ground (pictured in the Daily Mail) wasn't fenced in at the time of Madeleine's disappearance then it's possible that the man seen by the Smiths could have crossed this ground on his way from apartment 5A to the beach?

And spent how long digging a grave? It's not even remotely a runner in my view.

Notwithstanding his achilles injury he could have dug/discovered/prepared a grave earlier in the afternoon of the 3rd may.Just a thought!

by Guest 07.05.14 9:14

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The fencing and the sign in this picture look to me like the kind you get round a construction site.

I don't think that this area of wasteground is the main focus but maybe the police want to search it one final time before building work starts.

by mariola 07.05.14 9:16

Truthmustout wrote:This are the digging areas, Also I have heard they will use a machine like the one Stephen Birch (spelling?) used, to see if there has been changes in the soil or diggede there before..

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Can you mark where the Smith sighting took place on your map please?

by Guest 07.05.14 9:18

Poor Sean and Amelie.

Let's hope they are being protected from all that's been coming their way for such a long time

And let's not forget their own mother threatened them with driving her car off the road IIRC to end it all and for all of them to be together

Social services, Judge Hogg, are you listening?

by russiandoll 07.05.14 9:20

Brunt live from PdL, outside 5a..... Portuguese authorities refused UK police permission to search homes of 3 burglary suspects.

SY will excavate wasteland near the OC , beach to be searched with radar equipment and another area close to where a man was seen carrying a child [ must be Smithman sighting]

by margaret 07.05.14 9:21

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
'In a letter, Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said he would be unable to "provide any information concerning the activity".
'He asked editors to "think carefully" about information they publish.'

Not exactly forthcoming there, BBC.

On the contrary WLBTHS it looks to me like SY don't want anyone claiming 'unfair trial' because of anything published.....

by Dutchgirl 07.05.14 9:22

Martin Brunt on SkyNews NOW - says a row between PJ and SY last night with regards to media reporting or disruptions during the dig, Martin says it has been put off for a couple of days due to the media - SY refused other requests?? local newspaper reporting - PJ rejected a plea to search the homes of three men that worked at the OC who are suspected of break in the days leading up to Maddies disaprearance. They also want to interview - PJ to search homes DENIED!! It seems the Smith sighting area will be included in dig, long trenches - open trenches perhaps Maddie wondered off and fallen in the trench. 2nd wasteland - beside the road leading to sea, talking about Smith sighting - 3rd area is the beach area, no specifisa, - suggestion there may be clues there.
end!

by Guest 07.05.14 9:24

The BBC have a journalist in PdL.

Nothing new to report (Madeleine missing & police to start digging) but the simple fact that he is out there indicates that they may know more than they are letting on at the moment.

by OpenMind 07.05.14 9:29

Andrew77R wrote:IMO they need to be taking there spades up to HUELVA.

Not long after that trip, didn't GM say 'find the body and prove we killed her'....

Mentioned this several pages back, I have always believed the Huelva holds the answers in this case......

by Guest 07.05.14 9:35

Scotland Yard's John O' Connor's view soon after Madeleine disappeared:

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Theories by experts

The disappearance provoked differing analyses by experts. Shortly after Madeleine went missing two former [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] commanders expressed the view that she had been abducted. Roy Ramm considered that it was a carefully planned kidnapping by someone who had been watching the child.^{[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]} John O'Connor was of the view that Madeleine had wandered out of the apartment on her own and was subsequently abducted. O'Connor opined that she was likely to be nearby and recommended a thorough search of surrounding occupied premises.^{[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]}

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If and when Madeleine's body is finally discovered, it will be interesting to see whether she is wrapped in a blanket or shower curtain. If that is the case, then SY cannot claim that she wandered off. Also, if the shower curtain and blanket are recovered, then forensics will have something to go on.

by tiny 07.05.14 9:36

Dutchgirl wrote:Martin Brunt on SkyNews NOW - says a row between PJ and SY last night with regards to media reporting or disruptions during the dig, Martin says it has been put off for a couple of days due to the media - SY refused other requests?? local newspaper reporting - PJ rejected a plea to search the homes of three men that worked at the OC who are suspected of break in the days leading up to Maddies disaprearance. They also want to interview - PJ to search homes DENIED!! It seems the Smith sighting area will be included in dig, long trenches - open trenches perhaps Maddie wondered off and fallen in the trench. 2nd wasteland - beside the road leading to sea, talking about Smith sighting - 3rd area is the beach area, no specifisa, - suggestion there may be clues there.
end!

so sy are still after burglars,oh dear,my hopes have been dashed again

by Nereid 07.05.14 9:38

Poe wrote:

The fencing and the sign in this picture look to me like the kind you get round a construction site.

I don't think that this area of wasteground is the main focus but maybe the police want to search it one final time before building work starts.

Here's a closer look at the sign around the corner. Seems like it is a site that will be developed by Oceanico Group (owned by Simon Burgess and Gerry Fagan). It's next to the Estrela da Luz hotel (also belonging to Oceanico Group) on which the CCTV camera is mounted (from which the film was wiped before the PJ got hold of it).

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ETA, I don't think the CCTV had a view of the site and I don't think a body is buried there and I don't think they'll be digging there (before the conspiracy theories start).

by russiandoll 07.05.14 9:43

Brunt made a brief ref to SY not necessarily wanting to search these 3 homes because of a link to Madeleine [ for purpose of elimination?]. Refused, whatever the reason was. Good on the PJ for standing their ground and showing who is in charge.

Am hoping that the police have called editors in for a face to face briefing, that these are not the areas to be searched and no harm will come from reporting them as sites because a media presence there will not be a hindrance.

Look over here, not there.... searches will be elsewhere. The real, significant ones.

Out in the countryside?

The A word has been implied regularly in the past 24 hours, with this woke and wandered scenario [ given how Kate found 5a police will agree with her that it is not credible].

ACCIDENT.

by Issy 07.05.14 9:46

If I had to bury a body in a seaside resort, the last thing I'd think of doing is going to all the trouble of digging a grave, knowing that not only might I be seen doing it but that a recently-dug grave might be easily found. Much easier to weight the body and throw it into the sea, either from cliffs or from a boat (if I could find one). Ditto for anything else I wanted to dispose of - why bury it/them? I just don't understand this whole thing, TBH.

by ChippyM 07.05.14 9:46

"Residents following this fast-developing story are intrigued. Said a former policeman: “Bearing in mind it is extremely difficult to bury a body at short notice in hard ground, this suggests that police are looking for something buried before May 3. "

(posted by Russian Doll a few posts back)

These 'writers' really do seem to be coming on here and using people's posts, that is what PeterMacc has been saying almost verbatim!

by jeanmonroe 07.05.14 9:48

Bizarre, given that Jane Tanner saw the 'abductor' walking away from the apartment, but understandable if the body was close by.
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And the 'abductor' JT 'saw' was walking AWAY from the supposed 'dig' sites.

by mouse 07.05.14 9:49

After hearing Brunty on Sky just now....Can't help feeling he's reeling back a little. The presenter back at SKY Towers asking about the dig in a couple of days time....only to be told by Brunty that he thought it might be a little longer than that....Then she asked where the digs will be carried out, naming and showing certain locations....Slight pause from Brunty...then 'We think they will be carried out...." So all speculation, no facts, apart from the refusal of searches with regard to burglars by the PJ. The only facts they have at this stage.

From now on - I think we should pay attention to the local Portugal news media, rather than listening and speculating at the stories our media continue to put out here....After all, we didn't believe their other ridiculous front page splashes. As I heard on a report yesterday on 5live and posted yesterday - this feels far more likely and compounds my belief that SY and the PJ are are complete odds on this one!

"Just heard on Radio 5Live - a reporter from Portugal Newspaper - English paper, this was a female reporter, I believe same paper as that guy Paul (can't remember second name) who gave reports before... Saying that so far nothing is going on over there. They stated the line coming out of the PJ (as above) saying that they will not be giving any info/press releases on what is going to happen. They couldn't even say when or if they would start digging....and that no info had been released as to where they might start digging."

by whatliesbehindthesofa 07.05.14 9:50

Poe wrote:The BBC have a journalist in PdL.

Nothing new to report (Madeleine missing & police to start digging) but the simple fact that he is out there indicates that they may know more than they are letting on at the moment.

That is interesting, given the BBC's huge reluctance to report on the story at all yesterday.

by russiandoll 07.05.14 9:50

MILLIE wrote:Scotland Yard's John O' Connor's view soon after Madeleine disappeared:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Theories by experts

The disappearance provoked differing analyses by experts. Shortly after Madeleine went missing two former [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] commanders expressed the view that she had been abducted. Roy Ramm considered that it was a carefully planned kidnapping by someone who had been watching the child.^{[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]} John O'Connor was of the view that Madeleine had wandered out of the apartment on her own and was subsequently abducted. O'Connor opined that she was likely to be nearby and recommended a thorough search of surrounding occupied premises.^{[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If and when Madeleine's body is finally discovered, it will be interesting to see whether she is wrapped in a blanket or shower curtain. If that is the case, then SY cannot claim that she wandered off. Also, if the shower curtain and blanket are recovered, then forensics will have something to go on.

Sorry could not copy only the section ref JOC... he has insulted Kate's intelligence just as the Portuguese did with his woke and wandered idea. Maddie very kindly left everything she opened, closed. Curtains, patio door, 2 gates on her way out.. the lot. Kate says this in her account of the truth.

So it could not have happened. I believe her.

by Issy 07.05.14 9:53

russiandoll wrote:
noddy100 wrote:Didn't Kate say the way she found the room ruled out woke and wandered

How Kate found 5a and its immediate outdoors area ruled that scenario out, in fact she felt that suggestion by police insulted her intelligence. How could a drowsy not yet 4 year old have taken the trouble to close everything behind her as she left? Kate found street-level gate, safety gate at top of steps, patio doors and curtains all closed when she went to check at 10 pm.

Yes, that's what Kate SAID she found. Kate said a lot of things, she contradicted some of them, so how do we know what's true and what isn't?

by margaret 07.05.14 9:53

Tony Bennett wrote:
I think I have said on many occasions that from Day One this Scotland Yard operation has been about shaping public perception, and never was a genuine enquiry into the facts.

But that doesn't make sense to me, because so far SY have ruled out Tannerman and bought the Smith sighting to the fore, mentioned Maddie may not have left the apartment alive and have requested digs in PDL.

They haven't appeared to have helped the McCanns!

by Dutchgirl 07.05.14 9:54

Former Forensic Manager on Sky News (trying to type too quickly) missed her name, explaining what they will look at - look for changes in landscape vegetation etc , areas for further focus, radar equipment will be used, will be looking for remains, clothing, something dropped out of place - excavation will be needed - meticulous search. They will be taken to back to a lab that is agreed by PJ and SY. THE PJ have different policies, they will have to work toegther, Why has this taken so long - she replies it should be a natural routine but PJ have their reasons.
Will family be thankful - yes of course the McCanns need answers - hopefully positive outcome - time lapse 7 years - dig in a town trying to get back to normal, lady states items CAN be found years later.

end