Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

by whatliesbehindthesofa 07.05.14 9:55

margaret wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
I think I have said on many occasions that from Day One this Scotland Yard operation has been about shaping public perception, and never was a genuine enquiry into the facts.

But that doesn't make sense to me, because so far SY have ruled out Tannerman and bought the Smith sighting to the fore, mentioned Maddie may not have left the apartment alive and have requested digs in PDL.

They haven't appeared to have helped the McCanns!

Scotland Yard works in mysterious ways ....

by Silver Shuffle 07.05.14 9:55

C da M

Algarve
Caso Maddie: PJ ainda não decidiu quando fará buscas

Ingleses querem usar cães e sondas nos terrenos.

Algarve

Maddie Case: PJ has not yet decided when to make searches

Dogs and Englishmen want to use probes to land.

by jeanmonroe 07.05.14 10:01

'helpful' as ever

Martin Front:

"remember, their apartment wasn't locked'

by whatliesbehindthesofa 07.05.14 10:03

We probably need to remember that 99% of media reporting for the next couple of weeks will be complete tosh, and try to not get frustrated :)

by sami 07.05.14 10:05

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:We probably need to remember that 99% of media reporting for the next couple of weeks will be complete tosh, and try to not get frustrated :)

No change then.

by russiandoll 07.05.14 10:08

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
margaret wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
I think I have said on many occasions that from Day One this Scotland Yard operation has been about shaping public perception, and never was a genuine enquiry into the facts.

But that doesn't make sense to me, because so far SY have ruled out Tannerman and bought the Smith sighting to the fore, mentioned Maddie may not have left the apartment alive and have requested digs in PDL.

They haven't appeared to have helped the McCanns!

Scotland Yard works in mysterious ways ....

    But why go to all this expense and subterfuge to [ forgive the pun] bury the truth? It could have been done without the fanfare, the bells and whistles.

    I would find the theory re SY more credible of someone could tell me

1. Who they think is being protected.
  2. Why.
3. Also, why take this route to protection?

I simply believe that if this is an establishment cover-up, it could and would have been achieved without this level of publicity.

   Does anyone consider that this is a cover up by the establishment, that the Mcs have been ordered what to do and say and they have been and still are keeping Maddie in the public eye because they need the truth to be out there?

That they are, in fact, innocents dancing to the tune of others? That they have been ordered to lie about certain events and circumstances? It is the great corrupt UK establishment in control after all.

If this is the establishment in charge, 2 doctors and their friends are small fry, aren't they?

by Dutchgirl 07.05.14 10:11

Martin on Sky again - Portuguese are not happy and have threatened to stop the work if the reporting is continued. A big blow for SY as PJ DENIED request to search homes and interview 3burglars.

by Issy 07.05.14 10:16

Silver Shuffle wrote:C da M

Algarve
Caso Maddie: PJ ainda não decidiu quando fará buscas

Ingleses querem usar cães e sondas nos terrenos.

Algarve

Maddie Case: PJ has not yet decided when to make searches

Dogs and Englishmen want to use probes to land.

'Dogs and Englishmen' - shades of Noel Coward there, though not mad dogs this time. smilie

You know, I hope something comes of all this, but somehow I just can't believe it. People don't go around digging graves in seaside towns, especially when they presumably know the place will soon be overrun by police with sniffer dogs as it was after Madeleine's disappearance. Or are we supposed to believe the PJ didn't comb Praia da Luz properly, just had a vague look round and then gave up?

by Guest 07.05.14 10:21

russiandoll wrote:

If this is the establishment in charge, 2 doctors and their friends are small fry, aren't they?

They are not small fry if they have potential inside information regarding certain 'P' rings that lead back to the establishment. IMO that has to be at the forefront of this cover up (until now anyway).

David Payne as GA has stated could be the 'key' to a lot of this.

Maybe David Payne's use of the word 'Pact' included certain members of the establishment.

All IMO of course.

by ChippyM 07.05.14 10:26

Dutchgirl wrote:Martin on Sky again - Portuguese are not happy and have threatened to stop the work if the reporting is continued. A big blow for SY as PJ DENIED request to search homes and interview 3burglars.

Why don't SY do something? Surely it would be pretty easy to find the 1 source 'close to the McCanns' who is constantly prattling on and feeding the papers this rubbish! Surely they wouldn't want any digging stopped.....or would they, I really don't know.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 07.05.14 10:27

russiandoll wrote:
    But why go to all this expense and subterfuge to [ forgive the pun] bury the truth? It could have been done without the fanfare, the bells and whistles.

    I would find the theory re SY more credible of someone could tell me

1. Who they think is being protected.
  2. Why.
3. Also, why take this route to protection?

I simply believe that if this is an establishment cover-up, it could and would have been achieved without this level of publicity.

   Does anyone consider that this is a cover up by the establishment, that the Mcs have been ordered what to do and say and they have been and still are keeping Maddie in the public eye because they need the truth to be out there?

That they are, in fact, innocents dancing to the tune of others? That they have been ordered to lie about certain events and circumstances? It is the great corrupt UK establishment in control after all.

If this is the establishment in charge, 2 doctors and their friends are small fry, aren't they?

I don't believe that there is an establishment cover-up. If the establishment were covering things up, and had been from the beginning, I think this whole circus would have ended after a few months back in 2007. There wouldn't have been any 'fluids' in the boot of the Renault Scenic, the McCanns wouldn't have been in the position of having to bury a body themselves. The McCanns would have provided better witnesses in the current/recent libel trial. And most of all, the McCanns would have been told to shut up, hide away somewhere quiet, keep out of the public eye forever more, and count their blessings.

by ChippyM 07.05.14 10:30

Andrew77R wrote:
russiandoll wrote:

If this is the establishment in charge, 2 doctors and their friends are small fry, aren't they?
They are not small fry if they have potential inside information regarding certain 'P' rings that lead back to the establishment. IMO that has to be at the forefront of this cover up (until now anyway).

David Payne as GA has stated could be the 'key' to a lot of this.

Maybe David Payne's use of the word 'Pact' included certain members of the establishment.

All IMO of course.

That's my theory too, we also have the creepy photos by John Corner and reports that there was film equipment at a rented house in the area. IMO it's not who the McCanns know but what they might be connected to however convoluted.

by ChippyM 07.05.14 10:34

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

I don't believe that there is an establishment cover-up. If the establishment were covering things up, and had been from the beginning, I think this whole circus would have ended after a few months back in 2007. There wouldn't have been any 'fluids' in the boot of the Renault Scenic, the McCanns wouldn't have been in the position of having to bury a body themselves. The McCanns would have provided better witnesses in the current/recent libel trial. And most of all, the McCanns would have been told to shut up, hide away somewhere quiet, keep out of the public eye forever more, and count their blessings.

I think they are small fry and at the bottom of the food chain of this 'establishment'. At some point those lower down can be sacrificed like the pawns they are. An accidental death in the apartment would have ended it in 2007 but someone or more than one person needed to hide a body and any evidence with it.

by sofieellis 07.05.14 10:35

mariola wrote:
Truthmustout wrote:This are the digging areas, Also I have heard they will use a machine like the one Stephen Birch (spelling?) used, to see if there has been changes in the soil or diggede there before..

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Can you mark where the Smith sighting took place on your map please?

The Smithman sighting is covered on this mccannfiles page:

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This map shows where the Smith family met Smithman:

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"The red line indicates the route of the man, the black line indicates the route of the Smith family, who were returning from Kelly's Bar."

So the meeting took place very close to the large wasteland area in the top map.

by mariola 07.05.14 10:36

PeterMac wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:
Nereid wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
According to article this bit of waste ground is to be dug:
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Surrounded by apartments, and no one noticed anything? Hmmmm
.......... And which abductor / burglar would be likely to stop and bury anything here?
And they didn't.
The point at the top right, next to the 'W' of Waste ground is the Smith sighting.
I do not remember their report of a man digging !

That ground is hard and stony. It would need a JCB to break it. (And Yes, I have been there, with Pat !)

Thank you PM very informative.

by mariola 07.05.14 10:39

sofieellis wrote:
mariola wrote:
Truthmustout wrote:This are the digging areas, Also I have heard they will use a machine like the one Stephen Birch (spelling?) used, to see if there has been changes in the soil or diggede there before..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Can you mark where the Smith sighting took place on your map please?

The Smithman sighting is covered on this mccannfiles page:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This map shows where the Smith family met Smithman:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

"The red line indicates the route of the man, the black line indicates the route of the Smith family, who were returning from Kelly's Bar."

So the meeting took place very close to the large wasteland area in the top map.

Thank you Sophieellis.Much appreciated.

by Pershing36 07.05.14 10:39

I am starting to wonder if these digs are off the back of the PJ investigation, not as a result information given during the Crimewatch appeal.

The major news is they are going to dig, yet they keep slipping in these 3 burglars and the refusal to search their homes.

We know in the past that news has been coming out they are both working on different lines of investigation.

So much BS it is difficult to see where any of it is coming from.

by MarleneP 07.05.14 10:40

Ok, the body was stored in the Waste Ground. Smithman brought it down to the sea where someone was waiting with a boat.

by stillsloppingout 07.05.14 10:41

Dutchgirl wrote:Martin on Sky again - Portuguese are not happy and have threatened to stop the work if the reporting is continued. A big blow for SY as PJ DENIED request to search homes and interview 3burglars.

As i stated yesterday SY will not be able to help themselves . I bet by this time tomorrow the PJ have told SY to F*** off.

It confirms though that SY as TB states ,are still trying to shape public perception . [ especially todays leak referring to searching the three homes , giving the impression of a potential link between these persons and the dig ,thus affording the McCann's breathing space and no suspicion falling on them. ]

If any use comes from these excavations, there will be no body, but little things ie clothing etc, a body would have been disposed of later bar all the clutter [ toothbrush, pillow, clothing ] IMO she is NOT at sea ,living on the coast anyone who has the misfortune to go over the sea wall , usually ends up a week or so later washed up . Unless Gerry knew for sure local tide times , i doubt he would go down that route .. unless she's in a blue sports bag , two miles out weighed down with rocks .!!!.

by ChippyM 07.05.14 10:43

Pershing36 wrote:I am starting to wonder if these digs are off the back of the PJ investigation, not as a result information given during the Crimewatch appeal.

The major news is they are going to dig, yet they keep slipping in these 3 burglars and the refusal to search their homes.

We know in the past that news has been coming out they are both working on different lines of investigation.

So much BS it is difficult to see where any of it is coming from.

Take it back to the source. An anonymous source or 'close to the McCanns' = BS.

All the UK media have taken the original Mirror story that used this source and regurgitated it. If the PJ do not give details of operations then it is all bollocks.

by Guest 07.05.14 10:48

ChippyM wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
russiandoll wrote:

If this is the establishment in charge, 2 doctors and their friends are small fry, aren't they?
They are not small fry if they have potential inside information regarding certain 'P' rings that lead back to the establishment. IMO that has to be at the forefront of this cover up (until now anyway).

David Payne as GA has stated could be the 'key' to a lot of this.

Maybe David Payne's use of the word 'Pact' included certain members of the establishment.

All IMO of course.

That's my theory too, we also have the creepy photos by John Corner and reports that there was film equipment at a rented house in the area. IMO it's not who the McCanns know but what they might be connected to however convoluted.

Absolutely.

They clearly have connections, who have connections that lead to the very top of the ladder. A very dirty ladder as well but has to be seen at all costs to be a clean ladder if that makes sense.

If there wasn't any connections then they would of been charged back in 2007. GA would most certainly not of been removed due to Political interference and the case would of been solved very quickly.

If it was a group of Sales Rep's for example on holiday and the same happened, however they didn't have these connections then they would of been found out immediately and probably be still locked up now.

All IMO of course.

by Guest 07.05.14 10:53

ChippyM wrote:
Pershing36 wrote:I am starting to wonder if these digs are off the back of the PJ investigation, not as a result information given during the Crimewatch appeal.

The major news is they are going to dig, yet they keep slipping in these 3 burglars and the refusal to search their homes.

We know in the past that news has been coming out they are both working on different lines of investigation.

So much BS it is difficult to see where any of it is coming from.

Take it back to the source. An anonymous source or 'close to the McCanns' = BS.

All the UK media have taken the original Mirror story that used this source and regurgitated it. If the PJ do not give details of operations then it is all bollocks.

But all the BS also suits the police ...look at the Tractorman ...keep your eye on the burglars ...keep watching for paedophiles ...etc. ...etc.

By the time anyone realises the police have the McCanns in their sights the gruesome twosome (and maybe some of their pals) will already be in police custody.

by HelenMeg 07.05.14 10:54

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
margaret wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
I think I have said on many occasions that from Day One this Scotland Yard operation has been about shaping public perception, and never was a genuine enquiry into the facts.

But that doesn't make sense to me, because so far SY have ruled out Tannerman and bought the Smith sighting to the fore, mentioned Maddie may not have left the apartment alive and have requested digs in PDL.

They haven't appeared to have helped the McCanns!

Scotland Yard works in mysterious ways ....

I think Tony is right - SY Operation Grange is about shaping public perception - however I also believe it has another remit which is to reveal some of the truth, but perhaps not the whole truth.
I think its objectives are to gently guide the UK pubic into accepting that after 7 long years of being brainwashed by Team McCann, M died and that her parents were involved n covering up the death. (It has already partially done this job - it has introduced the idea of death slowly but surely... just not fully concluded yet..)

I don't think its objectives are to reveal the entire truth and expose the extent to which VIPs are involved - a deal has probably been made between Labour and Cons governments to lessen the damage. Still, I think it will be forced to reveal that the Mc Canns + friends were involved. That would make sense to me -

by ChippyM 07.05.14 10:57

Poe wrote:
......
But all the BS also suits the police ...look at the Tractorman ...keep your eye on the burglars ...keep watching for paedophiles ...etc. ...etc.

By the time anyone realises the police have the McCanns in their sights the gruesome twosome (and maybe some of their pals) will already be in police custody.

Yes I hope that is the case. I really do!

by ChippyM 07.05.14 10:59

HelenMeg wrote:

I think Tony is right - SY Operation Grange is about shaping public perception - however I also believe it has another remit which is to reveal some of the truth, but perhaps not the whole truth.
.......
I don't think its objectives are to reveal the entire truth and expose the extent to which VIPs are involved - a deal has probably been made between Labour and Cons governments to lessen the damage. Still, I think it will be forced to reveal that the Mc Canns + friends were involved. That would make sense to me -

I agree, something like that. Prune the lower branches, sacrifice a few pawns were necessary and keep everything intact at the top.

by Pershing36 07.05.14 11:02

stillsloppingout wrote:
Dutchgirl wrote:Martin on Sky again - Portuguese are not happy and have threatened to stop the work if the reporting is continued. A big blow for SY as PJ DENIED request to search homes and interview 3burglars.
As i stated yesterday SY will not be able to help themselves . I bet by this time tomorrow the PJ have told SY to F*** off.

It confirms though that SY as TB states ,are still trying to shape public perception . [ especially todays leak referring to searching the three homes , giving the impression of a potential link between these persons and the dig ,thus affording the McCann's breathing space and no suspicion falling on them. ]

If any use comes from these excavations, there will be no body, but little things ie clothing etc, a body would have been disposed of later bar all the clutter [ toothbrush, pillow, clothing ] IMO she is NOT at sea ,living on the coast anyone who has the misfortune to go over the sea wall , usually ends up a week or so later washed up . Unless Gerry knew for sure local tide times , i doubt he would go down that route .. unless she's in a blue sports bag , two miles out weighed down with rocks .!!!.

If I recall a body only needs to sink below 70 meters before compression stops its from re-floating as decomposition takes place. That isn't that deep or that far out.

However there would be a strong chance fishing trawlers would net a body in swallow water. I agree with you that if a burial at sea had been planned by somebody they would have had to go out to some considerable distance and would have had to have knowledge of ocean depths in the area.

by Doug D 07.05.14 11:05

If you were being thrown to the wolves, are SY really in a position to bargain with them so that they would go quietly?

by endgame 07.05.14 11:07

I still cannot quite get my head round why, after almost 300 requests over several months, the Portuguese have apparently only agreed to this one. If they were aware that these or other areas of ground may produce some evidence then surely they themselves would have carried out some investigations over the last seven years - and probably did. If SY have independently produced fresh "evidence" sufficient to enthuse the Portuguese, where has this come from? If someone has coughed and told them where the body lies or has lain, I don't think even SY would be giving it this level of publicity and the PJ would be there with their diggers right now. Given the PJ line so far, it seems unlikely that they would agree to this exercise on the basis that it will eliminate some lines of enquiry. If that is their standard of justification then they may as well agree the other 277 requests.

As always, nothing adds up. It could of course be that they are simply taking the p**s. Knowing full well that there is nothing to be found, they are quite happy for SY to embarrass themselves by thrashing about in the stony ground of PdL whilst they get on with some proper policing.

by RIPM 07.05.14 11:08

Senior Strategy Meeting

Operation Grange/Whitewash

We will bombard the PJ with requests to interview suspect burglars, bin men, swarthy men, men with funny accents, men with BO, scruffy hair, buck teeth, Ocean Club employees, and request hundreds of actions and searches to be carried out.

They will get fed up, refuse to agree to our spurious demands, then we can say we can progress no further due to Portuguese intransigence and have to wind it up.

Oh shit,........ they have dropped us right in it, they have agreed to request 277 digging in Luz and have made it public.

Redwood, you said they would never agree to any of our requests.

What are you going to do now?

by jeanmonroe 07.05.14 11:12

'before and after' pics of SY's 'dig' at OC, PDL.

BEFORE 'DIG' May 2014

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AFTER 'DIG' May 2073

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Andy and his 37 'Maddie Cops' survey the 'dig'.

"don't reckon we've left too many stones unturned, Guv'

"Shut up, and fetch another shovel!