"Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Translated by Joana:


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"Cadaver dogs are going to search for Maddie's body
6 May 2014 | Posted by Joana Morais Leave a Comment


Dogs are going to search for Maddie's body

Algarve: British Police also want to carry out excavations
Attorney General's Office authorizes searches to find the body of English child in Praia da Luz

by Tânia Laranjo

The Public Prosecution of Portimão authorized the British police to make searches in a vacant lots next to the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, Algarve, where investigators now argue that Madeleine's body may have been buried.

The [English] team that continues to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann had already made other requests that were refused. They have requested now for searches to be carried out on vacant lots next to the apartment from where the girl disappeared on May 4, 2007 and for excavations to be authorized. For now only the searches are allowed.

The English promised to use special equipment such as probes to help find cadavers and dogs that detect the trail of death.

“The question is whether the claims are made based on specific suspicions or just because. The English have not substantiated their requests, which means that the judge has already refused some of them”, said a source close to the process to CM.

Another problem that was raised was that the said site was extensively inspected after the child's disappearance. In the first hours after Kate raised the alarm to Madeleine's absence the authorities believed the child had gone out on her own and was lost and that area was thoroughly investigated.

If the Attorney General's Office gives permission for the excavation works to proceed, those will have to be performed by the Judiciary Police. In the meantime the investigation that was reopened [in Portugal] remains under the jurisdiction of that police force [PJ], since the English police has no authority to make investigations on Portuguese soil.

Correio da Manhã knows that other requests for searches were rejected by the Attorney General's Office. The prosecutor who oversees the investigation argued that there would have to be well-founded suspicions for the authorities to be sent on the field.

in Correio da Manhã, May 6, 2014"
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The prosecutor who oversees the investigation argued that there would have to be well-founded suspicions for the authorities to be sent on the field.
------------------------------------------------

So WHAT are those 'well founded suspicions' DCI Redwood?
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Portuguese Police: "we PREFER to talk less and do more"

Is the location (vacant lot) that from the Telegraaf letter?

Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

As Petermac pointed out, the body must have been buried before the alarm was raised - by the following day PDL had filled with investigative reporters and the extended families of the McCanns and the Healys. 

The idea that a lone abductor or even a paedophile gang would hang around or even return to bury the child in that area, in the full glare of the world's press is absurd.

Is the reverand Hubbard STILL pacing up and down ( a full 3 days AFTER he was 'flown in' to 'meet' Kate in PDL) outside the church in PDL awaiting the arrival of the McCanns and their multitude of disciples?

Cristobell wrote:Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Madeleine's body is found, SY will claim that she was killed by their predatory paedo and her body dumped nearby. I don't see how the parents are implicated at all unless you take the dog alerts seriously but that isn't something that SY seem willing to do. (For those of us that do consider all the evidence they are already implicated of course)

AndyB wrote:

Cristobell wrote:Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Madeleine's body is found, SY will claim that she was killed by their predatory paedo and her body dumped nearby. I don't see how the parents are implicated at all unless you take the dog alerts seriously but that isn't something that SY seem willing to do. (For those of us that do consider all the evidence they are already implicated of course)

but doesn't logic also dictate that if cadaver dogs were to indicate the presence of a body, then the alerts in 5a,on family clothing, the toy left behind AND THE HIRE CAR  would have to be examined?


And thinking about it, how could the cadaver odour be present on a toy left behind, given the regular checks/time needed for cadver odour to develop and the fact that the toy was on the bed/high shelf (sic) where no cadaver odour/blood was alerted to? How then  did it have contact with a dead body? Why would an abductor keep it with the body and then return it to the bed? Makes no sense to me...

Fronty's in Faro.

Sky news now.

SY only to 'observe' (dig(s))

McCanns 'informed'

AndyB wrote:

Cristobell wrote:Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Madeleine's body is found, SY will claim that she was killed by their predatory paedo and her body dumped nearby. I don't see how the parents are implicated at all unless you take the dog alerts seriously but that isn't something that SY seem willing to do. (For those of us that do consider all the evidence they are already implicated of course)

 As pointed out by PeterMac and others, the McCann's timeline doesn't allow someone to go into 5A, kill her, allow time for cadaver scent to develop AND plan and carry out a burial that successfully hid a body for 7 years!

    Of course that's if a body is found by these digs.

MARTIN BRUNT reporting from FARO, just breaking on Sky news, Portugal AG has granted permission for police to dig , will begin soon.

   sorry for duplication, typed at same time as jean, took ages to send.

 the Sky ticker states that the British police have been granted permission, as though they will be doing the excavations.

worriedmum wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Cristobell wrote:Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Madeleine's body is found, SY will claim that she was killed by their predatory paedo and her body dumped nearby. I don't see how the parents are implicated at all unless you take the dog alerts seriously but that isn't something that SY seem willing to do. (For those of us that do consider all the evidence they are already implicated of course)

but doesn't logic also dictate that if cadaver dogs were to indicate the presence of a body, then the alerts in 5a,on family clothing, the toy left behind AND THE HIRE CAR  would have to be examined?

Anyone or anything could have been buried at the spot they are going to dig. The police need bones or clothing to examine.

In the Mirror a few days ago.

3: Exactly when was Maddy taken?

When Kate went back to do her own check at 10pm - Madeleine was gone.

Scotland Yard believes Maddy was taken moments before, but a much longer window of opportunity remains.
-----------------------------------------------------------

.......but a much longer window of opportunity remains."

From say possibly, 5:30pm til 10:00pm, 3rd May 2007?

Madeleine 'with' Mccanns from 5:30pm to 9:10/15pm (when GM says he was the LAST PERSON to 'SEE' a 'live' Madeleine in her bed)
--------------------------------------
Commander Simon Foy (Andy's ex-boss at Operation Strange.)

"Of course Stuart Hazell would absolutely be a person of interest, being the last one to claim to have seen a 'live' Tia"

DCI Redwood ( with Commander Simon Foy acting boss at Operation Strange at the time)

"The McCanns (and their friends) are NOT persons of interest DISPITE Mr McCann admitting to have been the last one to have seen a 'live' Madeleine."

(Stuart Hazell is NOT a 'doctor')

AndyB wrote:

Cristobell wrote:Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Madeleine's body is found, SY will claim that she was killed by their predatory paedo and her body dumped nearby. I don't see how the parents are implicated at all unless you take the dog alerts seriously but that isn't something that SY seem willing to do. (For those of us that do consider all the evidence they are already implicated of course)

I'm following the logic of Petermac, Andy.  Once the alarm had been raised at 10.00pm on the night of the 3rd May, a burial in the immediate vicinity would have been impossible.  

DCI Redwood said that Madeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment.  From that, I took that they are indeed acknowledging the evidence of the dogs.  

Madeleine was alive at 9.10 on the night of the 3rd, according to Gerry.  He claims she was in her bed sleeping peacefully.  The abductor therefore only had 50 minutes in which to murder Madeleine and bury her in a place so secure that it has been undisturbed for 7 years.

When the police dug for Ben Needham, Kerry was there and personally thanked the searchers.

Are either of the McCanns planning to jet out to Portugal? To thank the searchers? To thank the PJ and SY for putting aside their differences to work together?

Anyone?

Didn't think so.

Could the title of this thread be changed from digging up the resort to digging at the resort?   It sounds as if the police will be demolishing the place!

ChippyM wrote:

dantezebu wrote:Does anyone has a reference as to how GA came to his conclusion that the samples found in the scenic came from a frozen/defrosting cadaver? Is there a report of the examination of these samples under the microscope?
....

I have been trying to find more detail on this too. As I understood it the fact that the liquid/material was even there in the first place led to him thinking this was a defrosting body. If it was a body that had not been frozen it would have dried out between the time of death and the time of being transported and the fluids would not be there to leak.     I will try and find something that supports that, but if not that's just my interpretation.

  In 'The truth of the lie' Chapter 16, Amaral says:

"The dog then intensively sniffs each of the first three cars, at tyre level, the side doors and the boot, then all round. When he gets close to the fourth, the McCanns’ Renault, he becomes agitated, raises his nose while running around, as if he is trying to locate the source of the odour he has detected. Martin tells him to stop running around and concentrate on the search. Finally, he starts to growl, bark and wanting to bite the bottom of the driver’s door and the boot. The odour is coming from inside. The PJ’s experts examine the vehicle for hours with the help of Keela. At dawn, traces of human blood are found in places indicated by the female dog: the key and the boot."


So the 'fluid' in the car was indicated by the dogs and Keela indicated it was blood. I would have thought the officers would have done a test there and then to confirm it was blood, such as luminol. Maybe this has been kept back as I can't finf reference to a test in the files.


   For blood to be there at all after weeks  would mean a body was in a preserved state, ie frozen.

Can anyone post an image from Google maps of the scrub land to the west of the apartments on Rua Primeiro de Maio. I`ve tried but it doesn`t work.

In any case I would have thought that plot would have been built on by now.

russiandoll wrote:Could the title of this thread be changed from digging up the resort to digging at the resort?   It sounds as if the police will be demolishing the place!

It's the Daily Mirror's wording - it must be true!

From today's Daily Express

"They are doing searches as much as to rule scenarios out as much as rule them in".

Hmmm...

How is Clarrie going to spin this one ?

Cristobell wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Cristobell wrote:Wouldn't the parents be implicated if a body is found, regardless of its condition?

Aren't they implicated merely by the digs taking place?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If Madeleine's body is found, SY will claim that she was killed by their predatory paedo and her body dumped nearby. I don't see how the parents are implicated at all unless you take the dog alerts seriously but that isn't something that SY seem willing to do. (For those of us that do consider all the evidence they are already implicated of course)

I'm following the logic of Petermac, Andy.  Once the alarm had been raised at 10.00pm on the night of the 3rd May, a burial in the immediate vicinity would have been impossible.  

DCI Redwood said that Madeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment.  From that, I took that they are indeed acknowledging the evidence of the dogs.  

Madeleine was alive at 9.10 on the night of the 3rd, according to Gerry.  He claims she was in her bed sleeping peacefully.  The abductor therefore only had 50 minutes in which to murder Madeleine and bury her in a place so secure that it has been undisturbed for 7 years.

I think I understand now: The time between the last check and the discovery that Madeleine was missing is 50 minutes, which is insufficient to bury a body so securely that it remains undiscovered after 7 years despite the areas nearby being thoroughly searched at the time. That being the case, she must have been buried earlier than Gerry's alleged check at 21:10.

I'm not convinced that SY will see it that way but that's a different matter

russiandoll wrote:How is Clarrie going to spin this one ?

He already has, hasn't he? The McCanns leaked this story to the Mirror to pre-empt the announcement, and in my opinion they did that to give the impression that Scotland Yard is on their side and that the PJ aren't co-operating as usual. 'Why wasn't this done seven years ago???' exclaim the paid shills.

How could they spin a body being found? I'm guessing it will be a 'nothing to do with us guv' line.

Their options are fast running out.

AndyB wrote:
I think I understand now: The time between the last check and the discovery that Madeleine was missing is 50 minutes, which is insufficient to bury a body so securely that it remains undiscovered after 7 years despite the areas nearby being thoroughly searched at the time. That being the case, she must have been buried earlier than Gerry's alleged check at 21:10.

I'm not convinced that SY will see it that way but that's a different matter

I'm not of the opinion that she was buried at that time, there is the hire car to consider.

Anyone think that McCann' falls apart and telling the truth if they find a body?

ChippyM wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

dantezebu wrote:Does anyone has a reference as to how GA came to his conclusion that the samples found in the scenic came from a frozen/defrosting cadaver? Is there a report of the examination of these samples under the microscope?
....

I have been trying to find more detail on this too. As I understood it the fact that the liquid/material was even there in the first place led to him thinking this was a defrosting body. If it was a body that had not been frozen it would have dried out between the time of death and the time of being transported and the fluids would not be there to leak.     I will try and find something that supports that, but if not that's just my interpretation.

  In 'The truth of the lie' Chapter 16, Amaral says:

"The dog then intensively sniffs each of the first three cars, at tyre level, the side doors and the boot, then all round. When he gets close to the fourth, the McCanns’ Renault, he becomes agitated, raises his nose while running around, as if he is trying to locate the source of the odour he has detected. Martin tells him to stop running around and concentrate on the search. Finally, he starts to growl, bark and wanting to bite the bottom of the driver’s door and the boot. The odour is coming from inside. The PJ’s experts examine the vehicle for hours with the help of Keela. At dawn, traces of human blood are found in places indicated by the female dog: the key and the boot."


So the 'fluid' in the car was indicated by the dogs and Keela indicated it was blood. I would have thought the officers would have done a test there and then to confirm it was blood, such as luminol. Maybe this has been kept back as I can't finf reference to a test in the files.


   For blood to be there at all after weeks  would mean a body was in a preserved state, ie frozen.

Thanks Chippy for this - as I had never realised that the key had blood traces on it - I only thought it was scent.

I am really starting to believe that the PJ/SY have received specific information.
I can remember a lot of posters saying a few months back that if this case was to be solved it'd be just around election time,is that this month?

The articles over the past week have put a different slant on what they usually report imo.
Fingers Crossed.

wlbts..... an attempt has been made to spin it but it won't wash. It is stated in reports that the PJ and SY are collaborating on this development. The MO is now boringly predictable, isn't it ?

 Did you hear Kate refer to THE TEAM when  she spoke to Fiona Bruce for the BBC, an interview which since it first aired has been repeatedly shown every day since.

 SY or team McCann ? She did not say which.

 On Sky news at midday, latest developments.

I'm still 'thinking' that JW 'took something' from GM and 'placed' that 'something' somewhere and that MO 'set the scene' on his 'check' (for KM to 'find') AFTER JW had 'gone'

GM and DP 'went out again' at 4:00am (4th May 2007) and 'moved' that 'something' from JW's 'somewhere' to 'somewhere else'

How does one account for JW 'reaction' when McCann friend MO told him GM child had been 'abducted'?

JW 'went back to bed!'

JW did NOT even ask the police, the first thing next morning, 4th May 2007, if they had 'found' his tennis buddy's child.

JW did NOT get a 'mention' on BOTH of R O'Bs 'handwritten timelines' (even though the T9 were talking about GM's 'chatting with him, witnessed by JT, at the tapas table when GM returned from his 'check' 9:20/9:25pm, 3rd May 2007)

JW has NOT 'sued' the McCanns, even though they have stated, on TV and in print, that he 'lied' about where he was 'chatting' to GM.

Remember, we only have the McCanns and their friends, including JW, 'statements' and 'words' about that night.

THEY wouldn't/couldn't possibly have 'lied' could they?

Surely not.

russiandoll wrote:wlbts..... an attempt has been made to spin it but it won't wash. It is stated in reports that the PJ and SY are collaborating on this development. The MO is now boringly predictable, isn't it ?

 Did you hear Kate refer to THE TEAM when  she spoke to Fiona Bruce for the BBC, an interview which since it first aired has been repeatedly shown every day since.

 SY or team McCann ? She did not say which.

 On Sky news at midday, latest developments.

Totally agree :)

BRUNTIE   SY asked for permission to be involved in digging in PdL.   Sounds as if the PJ initiated this development and SY want to be there.


  K and G were advised SY wanted to get involved in this [ as if we can't guess after the leaks to the press!]. Brunt says that the couple are trying to be positive but realistically the evidence being searched for by police can only be a body.