Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

by TheTruthWillOut 05.05.14 20:46

I think this is the Portuguese report that JillyCL is referring to?

Edit: correct link....http://www.tvi.iol.pt/noticia/sociedade/maddie-escavacoes-buscas-algarve-desaparecida-madeleine-mmcann/1553948-4071.html

by Ayniia 05.05.14 20:50

First I was thinking this was just something like the reported arrests that didn't happened, now I don't know. Because I don't believe there's a body, and surely not buried in PDL. But I won't mind to be wrong in this, all I hope is that there's some justice for Madeleine.

by Guest 05.05.14 20:51

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I think this is the Portuguese report that JillyCL is referring to?

[url= [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Don't think that link works.... Doesn't for me anyway..

Joana's latest:

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[ltr]@xklamation[/ltr]

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Latest - Excavation approved by Attorney General's Office [PGR] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by sallypelt 05.05.14 20:56

@xklamation Joana Morais 1m
#ff @Marisa_TVI everyone say welcome to Marisa Rodrigues, top PT journalist covering the #McCann case

by TheTruthWillOut 05.05.14 20:58

I did get the link wrong the first time Andrew but the correct one is there now. To get it to work:

Highlight the text from 'http' until all blue then right click mouse on text to bring a box up and then left click mouse on 'go to'.

by NickE 05.05.14 21:12

"Very close to apartment 5A".

"All five apartments were searched using the EVRD. The only alert indications
were at apartment 5a, the reported scene.

The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.
My observation of the dog's behaviour in this instance was that the dog's
behaviour changed immediately upon opening the front door to the apartment".

by Dutchgirl 05.05.14 21:14

I cannot for the life of me understand how Gerry could be "hoping for a happy outcome" knowing they are digging for his baby "abducted by paedos" angry2

by Dutchgirl 05.05.14 21:19

Joana Morais ‏@xklamation [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
it's on TVI [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] now

by Watching 05.05.14 21:28

Dutchgirl wrote:I cannot for the life of me understand how Gerry could be "hoping for a happy outcome" knowing they are digging for his baby "abducted by paedos"

Perhaps for Mr the happy outcome he spoke of in recent interview would be if Maddie's death was pinned on someone else, releasing him and Mrs from the hell they must be living. Redwood would pin this on someone other than Mr & Mrs in a heartbeat and they know it - reasons for Mr & Mrs to be cheerful?

by MarleneP 05.05.14 21:33

Gerry "hoping for a happy outcome"

One finds Madeleines corpse with a slip of paper: it was me, the tractor man.

by petunia 05.05.14 21:39

If this is true then we need to prepare ourselves for the rolling 24/7 news coverage,with sky news helicopters etc,etc..

by TheTruthWillOut 05.05.14 21:42

Watching wrote:
Dutchgirl wrote:I cannot for the life of me understand how Gerry could be "hoping for a happy outcome" knowing they are digging for his baby "abducted by paedos"

Perhaps for Mr the happy outcome he spoke of in recent interview would be if Maddie's death was pinned on someone else, releasing him and Mrs from the hell they must be living. Redwood would pin this on someone other than Mr & Mrs in a heartbeat and they know it - reasons for Mr & Mrs to be cheerful?

See PeterMacs post on page 10 of this thread. if anything pertinent is found in these digs.....they're in trouble. And SY will not be able to pin it on anyone else.

by Woofer 05.05.14 21:50

This all seems so contrived to me - to happen on the 7th anniversary.

by NickE 05.05.14 22:00

Does anyone think there is a connection between excavation sites and phone pings?

by petunia 05.05.14 22:08

My thought too NickE.And while the media descend on the ocean club,the diggers might be miles away,look over here not over there sort of speak.

by Dutchgirl 05.05.14 22:15

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Judge refuses ‘a number’ of formal requests by Scotland Yard in search for Madeleine
by Brendan de Beer, in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] · 05-05-2014 21:55:00 · [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A Portuguese police source has tonight told The Portugal News that some requests by Scotland Yard detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been “rejected due to a total lack of foundation.”
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The ruling was made by a Portuguese criminal judge tasked with issuing search warrants applied for by the Metropolitan Police Service in the third and latest international letter of request sent to Lisbon earlier this year.

The police source stressed that contrary to latest newspaper reports both in Britain and Portugal, no digging has been scheduled with regards to the investigation.

But he reasoned that “if they are planning excavations, it means that they are looking for a body.”

As for reports that the digging could also serve to rule out the possibility that Madeleine is not alive, he questioned: “How many holes do you have to dig to rule out the existence of a body?”

He continued: “Why does the Metropolitan Police Service want to dig up holes if they believe Madeleine is still alive? How do you prove that somebody is alive by digging up holes?”

The police source reaffirmed an earlier position that the case was re-opened by Portuguese authorities to investigate a series of sexual assaults on children in the Algarve between 2004 and 2010.

“This was not uniquely to investigate Euclides Monteiro”, he explained, referring to the Cape Verdean national who died in a tractor accident on a golf course in Lagos, near Luz, back in 2009.

The source stressed: “All scenarios remain open.”

As for the modus operandi used by British detectives since the multi-million pound investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, codenamed Operation Grange, was signed off by Prime Minister David Cameron, the police source admitted: “Sincerely, it is not easy to understand them. But I’m sure they know what they are doing.”

He further questioned whether these latest revelations “which come after the anniversary of Madeleine McCann, have anything to do with the European elections and the need for the Metropolitan Police Service to prove to those who created this team that they have made some progress?”

Regarding the tactics employed by Portuguese police, he said: “We are completely committed to finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann. Our approach is humble and very honest. We have a complete notion of the difficulty and the importance this investigation has to all concerned and the need to obtain results. We are firmly committed to discover what happened. However, there are completely different ways of approaching the investigation. We prefer to talk less and do more.”

Scotland Yard were not immediately for comment on the refusal of some their requests, which are believed to total no fewer than 278.

by MarleneP 05.05.14 22:25

Well, there you are. All smoke and mirrors ...

He further questioned whether these latest revelations “which come after the anniversary of Madeleine McCann, have anything to do with the European elections and the need for the Metropolitan Police Service to prove to those who created this team that they have made some progress?”

It's about politics .... as said Amaral already.

by jeanmonroe 05.05.14 22:44

Portuguese police: "We are firmly committed to discover what happened. However, there are completely different ways of approaching the investigation. We prefer to talk less and do more.”

"WE PREFER TO TALK LESS AND DO MORE!"

Amen to that!

by TheTruthWillOut 05.05.14 22:46

My response to the Portugal news article:

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Think I'll revert to playing it by ear and see if anything comes of it.

by XTC 05.05.14 22:47

Newintown wrote:
margaret wrote:
Newintown wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be disposed of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her. Hidden somewhere and transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I can't remember the exact details at this precise moment but didn't GA say that there was evidence of a body having been thawed out that was detected in the Scenic. Perhaps someone who has a better memory than myself can put us straight on that.

It was from the bodily fluids found. Maybe there a test that can see if those fluids had previously been frozen?

I've found the report from GA regarding the frozen body fluids in the Scenic:

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"The cadaver was frozen"

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

If the body was hidden in the beach area first, was it always out of reach for the searches?

The beach was searched at a time when it is not known whether the body was still there. Using dogs, but sniffer dogs have limitations, like the salted water, for example. Later on, it may have been removed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The whole report is there, but if you do a word search for "frozen" it will find the appropriate paragraphs. They are quite a long way down on the page.

I was going to reply to Peter Mac's interesting comment about before and after yet, is there a possiblity that say a frozen body was formerly wrapped in ( say plastic sheeting - cling film? ) which had initially been frozen at the same time as a body? Could the disposal of that immediately after unwrapping be the residue that Eddie hit on? Secondly if that was a possibility could Cadaver scent be preserved in a
frozen state by the same wrapping process and when thawed out be detected more easily as it may become more stronger in the heat?

I have read a bit about Cryonics and the apparent problem ( even in these current times ) isn't so much the freezing as the thawing out.

On thawing the membranes of the cell walls explode or break and all the cellular fluid in the cell oozes out. Also beacuse its frozen ( Nitrogen I think ) then what it is frozen with contaminates the ooze from the cell. Is there a possibility that the scientists found c some cells which had mixed with Nitrogen and water - hence Mr Amaral's speculation?

Opinion though.

by Liz Eagles 05.05.14 22:53

TheTruthWillOut wrote:My response to the Portugal news article:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Think I'll revert to playing it by ear and see if anything comes of it.

by Guest 05.05.14 22:58

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request for escavations of SY has been authorized by the PJ

by jeanmonroe 05.05.14 23:00

I have read a bit about Cryonics and the apparent problem ( even in these current times ) isn't so much the freezing as the thawing out.
------------------------------------------------------------

And didn't fellow holidaymaker, Jeremy Wilkins, who was in the street, outside 5A, at the exact time, Madeleine was being 'carried off' produce a show about cryonics?

But poor 'invisible' JW didn't get a mention on the TWO R O'B 'handwritten timelines'

Just ANOTHER 'coincidence'?

by Cristobell 05.05.14 23:01

Andrew77R wrote:Cheers for that Newtintown. Will have a thorough read shortly.

Deleted - stated as fact NOT FACT

The hire car was the main thing that always puzzled me.

I don't think Kate and Gerry, or indeed any of their close family, are short on bottle Andrew, they all made use of the holiday facilities and free flights while they were available.

by **Nina** 05.05.14 23:02

XTC wrote:
Newintown wrote:
margaret wrote:
Newintown wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be disposed of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her. Hidden somewhere and transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I can't remember the exact details at this precise moment but didn't GA say that there was evidence of a body having been thawed out that was detected in the Scenic. Perhaps someone who has a better memory than myself can put us straight on that.

It was from the bodily fluids found. Maybe there a test that can see if those fluids had previously been frozen?

I've found the report from GA regarding the frozen body fluids in the Scenic:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"The cadaver was frozen"

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

If the body was hidden in the beach area first, was it always out of reach for the searches?

The beach was searched at a time when it is not known whether the body was still there. Using dogs, but sniffer dogs have limitations, like the salted water, for example. Later on, it may have been removed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The whole report is there, but if you do a word search for "frozen" it will find the appropriate paragraphs. They are quite a long way down on the page.
I was going to reply to Peter Mac's interesting comment about before and after yet, is there a possiblity that say a frozen body was formerly wrapped in ( say plastic sheeting - cling film? ) which had initially been frozen at the same time as a body? Could the disposal of that immediately after unwrapping be the residue that Eddie hit on? Secondly if that was a possibility could Cadaver scent be preserved in a
frozen state by the same wrapping process and when thawed out be detected more easily as it may become more stronger in the heat?

I have read a bit about Cryonics and the apparent problem ( even in these current times ) isn't so much the freezing as the thawing out.

On thawing the membranes of the cell walls explode or break and all the cellular fluid in the cell oozes out. Also beacuse its frozen ( Nitrogen I think ) then what it is frozen with contaminates the ooze from the cell. Is there a possibility that the scientists found c some cells which had mixed with Nitrogen and water - hence Mr Amaral's speculation?

Opinion though.

Going all domestic now. When we defrost meat/fish, well anything really, it defrosts from the outside in. How many time have I defrosted only to find the core still frozen. During decomposition, the really decomposed parts are within, the organs.

by phil_burton 05.05.14 23:03

So are these excavations approved or not?

Seems to be contradictory reports coming out of Portugal

by jeanmonroe 05.05.14 23:05

Cristobell wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Cheers for that Newtintown. Will have a thorough read shortly.
DELETED

The hire car was the main thing that always puzzled me.
I don't think Kate and Gerry, or indeed any of their close family, are short on bottle Andrew, they all made use of the holiday facilities and free flights while they were available.

And both the entire McCann and Healy 'clans' frantically 'searched' for Madeleine around the OC swimming pool, in their 'cossies'!

Until Ma Healy and Ma McCann were sent packing on the 'granny express' back to the UK within hours for upsetting Gerry by saying 'something' out of turn!

by Cristobell 05.05.14 23:15

Dutchgirl wrote:I cannot for the life of me understand how Gerry could be "hoping for a happy outcome" knowing they are digging for his baby "abducted by paedos"

Clearly he and Kate are not being kept fully informed if Gerry was hoping for a happy outcome when he made that announcement.

by Cristobell 05.05.14 23:18

jeanmonroe wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Cheers for that Newtintown. Will have a thorough read shortly.

Deleted

The hire car was the main thing that always puzzled me.
I don't think Kate and Gerry, or indeed any of their close family, are short on bottle Andrew, they all made use of the holiday facilities and free flights while they were available.

And both the entire McCann and Healy 'clans' frantically 'searched' for Madeleine around the OC swimming pool, in their 'cossies'!

Until Ma Healy and Ma McCann were sent packing on the 'granny express' back to the UK within hours for upsetting Gerry by saying 'something' out of turn!

I find the whole extended holiday absolutely astonishing Jean.

by rainbow-fairy 06.05.14 0:14

phil_burton wrote:So are these excavations approved or not?

Seems to be contradictory reports coming out of Portugal

I was then about to post these tweets -

JillyCL @JillyCL 1hr
@PORTUGALONLINE It was announced on TVI news this evening. It has been confirmed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] #McCann

Isabelle McFadden @PORTUGALONLINE 1hr
@k1482 @JillyCL yes I found it PJ will be doing excavations date hasn't been confirmed #mccann

So seems they may be. That's all I've seen so far and I can't watch the video in JillyCL's link so I'm not sure. Interesting if so, though - especially 'PJ will be doing excavations'...