Re: CROCODILE 'TEARS' FROM HOGAN-HOWE!

by bobbin 08.03.14 8:20

justathought wrote:Fellow posters
Firstly, apologise for this post being off topic. And for what its worth is no way is a comment on the rights and wrongs of any moderating decisions made.
Queried why this thread was deleted earlier. As was a bit "narked" this had happened, for a number of reasons. Got a very quick reply and explanation from "candyfloss" as to what was going on. If my memory serves me well, the same "candyfloss" whom was still moderating up until the witching hour last night.
I suppose my point is that it is easy to forget the time and effort some folks put into fighting a cause they believe in. Easy to take things for granted, as I and some others may do, and assume the site runs itself.

I want to second your vote of praise for candyfloss. It must be the devil's own job to keep a balance on a vibrant, sometimes heated debate. Candyfloss does it, day in, day out, come what may.
If it were not for her, this forum, as we know it, would be finished.
If there is any chance of Maddie seeing the justice she so deserves, we need to hope that candyfloss will keep on keeping this forum on track.
Candyfloss, it's not often said, but nevertheless always acknowledged, you are magic. Thankyou. roses

by diatribe 08.03.14 12:06

ultimaThule wrote:

I share your opinion, rd. It beggars belief that anyone would seek to disparage and demean parents who have consistently displayed courage and dignity in pursuit of justice for their murdered son.

Are you seriously intimating that this display of 'dignity and courage' in pursuit of justice hasn't involved them making vast amounts of money on the back of their son's death. There are hundreds of families who have displayed 'courage and dignity' in pursuit of justice for their murdered relatives without pocketing a penny from the public purse, let alone demanding a major erosion of civil liberties and celebrity status.

Here's a classic example of a mother who , until her demise, fought valliantly for justice in not only the case of her missing/murdered daughter, but for many others without demanding a brass cent of taxpayer's money to fund a better lifestyle, or to maintain a high profile celebrity status.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by ultimaThule 08.03.14 13:43

diatribe wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:

I share your opinion, rd. It beggars belief that anyone would seek to disparage and demean parents who have consistently displayed courage and dignity in pursuit of justice for their murdered son.

Are you seriously intimating that this display of 'dignity and courage' in pursuit of justice hasn't involved them making vast amounts of money on the back of their son's death. There are hundreds of families who have displayed 'courage and dignity' in pursuit of justice for their murdered relatives without pocketing a penny from the public purse, let alone demanding a major erosion of civil liberties and celebrity status.

Here's a classic example of a mother who , until her demise, fought valliantly for justice in not only the case of her missing/murdered daughter, but for many others without demanding a brass cent of taxpayer's money to fund a better lifestyle, or to maintain a high profile celebrity status.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As you are no doubt aware, diatribe, the racially motivated murder of Stephen Lawrence and the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh bear no comparison whatsoever to each other and I find it a tad ironic that, while continuing to disparage and demean Stephen's parents, you have cited a case in which the mother of the victim worked tirelessly to protect others from stalkers and harassment.

by bobbin 08.03.14 13:49

diatribe wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:

I share your opinion, rd. It beggars belief that anyone would seek to disparage and demean parents who have consistently displayed courage and dignity in pursuit of justice for their murdered son.

Are you seriously intimating that this display of 'dignity and courage' in pursuit of justice hasn't involved them making vast amounts of money on the back of their son's death. There are hundreds of families who have displayed 'courage and dignity' in pursuit of justice for their murdered relatives without pocketing a penny from the public purse, let alone demanding a major erosion of civil liberties and celebrity status.

Here's a classic example of a mother who , until her demise, fought valliantly for justice in not only the case of her missing/murdered daughter, but for many others without demanding a brass cent of taxpayer's money to fund a better lifestyle, or to maintain a high profile celebrity status.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

bobbin wrote:

Without reading your post any further Diatribe, than the red highlighted area, I wonder if you are not trying to force your view on others.
The purpose of this forum is for members to be able to discuss, without intimidation, the matters relevant to finding justice for Maddie.

People have differing views about all sorts of matters and I find your approach, highlighted in red, to be unpleasantly challenging.

There is always a way of saying "I politely disagree" and then agree to disagree but to introduce a post with "Are you seriously intimating" does not show respect to other posters. IMO.

If you disagree with my post then we must agree to disagree. I hope you find that acceptable.

by diatribe 08.03.14 14:40

ultimaThule wrote:
As you are no doubt aware, diatribe, the racially motivated murder of Stephen Lawrence and the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh bear no comparison whatsoever to each other

Other of course than the fact that they were both murdered. Are you suggesting that a woman murdered for sexual motives warrants less merit than a teenager murdered over a territorial dispute. Its utterly irrelevant that in the case of Stephen Lawrence, he was black and his attackers were white, because there are as many, if not more cases where the reverse applies. In the case of the latter, far from the media highlighting such cases, they are either ignored or explained away by any reason, no matter how spurious, providing it doesn't contain a racialist element.

and I find it a tad ironic that, while continuing to disparage and demean Stephen's parents, you have cited a case in which the mother of the victim worked tirelessly to protect others from stalkers and harassment.

I can't see the relevance of your point or for that matter why you should consider it to be ironic, of course she worked tirelessly to protect others from stalkers and harrassment, that's one of the reasons I cited her case, although it was a random citing and there are many others I could have opted for.

My point was, incidentally, that in the case of Suzy Lamplugh's mother, unlike the Lawrence family, her reasons were not financially orientated, neither were they politically motivated. I doubt whether there were any 'Nation of Surrey' warriors lined up outside the courtroom when her daughter was proclaimed dead in 1994, if indeed such a hearing is obligatory in a case where a missing person is officially declared to be dead.

by diatribe 08.03.14 15:00

bobbin wrote:

If you disagree with my post then we must agree to disagree. I hope you find that acceptable.

Perfectly acceptable, Bobbin. I always attempt to accord other combatants with the same degree of courtesy as they bestow upon me.

by ultimaThule 08.03.14 15:33

"Other combatants"? The only member who's at war on this forum is you, diatribe, as is clearly evidenced by the number of insulting and offensive comments you've directed at those who hold views and opinions which are not in accordance with your own.

by Guest 08.03.14 15:53

So, another thread turned into a diatribe and UT 'spat'.

This had better stop, I am fed up of this bickering lately, every thread gets disrupted. Any more of it and the 'cooler' awaits.

by jeanmonroe 08.03.14 16:06

I started this thread.

I just wanted to point out the sheer, disgusting, 'duplicitous behaviour' of BHH, DCI Andy Redwood's 'big boss'

ENOUGH OF THE BULLSH*T 'disruption'!

"DON'T MAKE ME ANGRY, YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M ANGRY"

by justathought 08.03.14 17:11

jeanmonroe wrote:I started this thread.

I just wanted to point out the sheer, disgusting, 'duplicitous behaviour' of BHH, DCI Andy Redwood's 'big boss'

ENOUGH OF THE BULLSH*T 'disruption'!

"DON'T MAKE ME ANGRY, YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M ANGRY"

jeanmonroe
I am sure in my opinion, that B H-H was assisted with the comments he made by The Met's media section. They smack of almost coming straight from a politician's mouth.
We the general public are expected to be taken in, by such "heartfelt" statements, when in reality they are just empty platitudes?!

by ultimaThule 08.03.14 17:36

justathought wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:I started this thread.

I just wanted to point out the sheer, disgusting, 'duplicitous behaviour' of BHH, DCI Andy Redwood's 'big boss'

ENOUGH OF THE BULLSH*T 'disruption'!

"DON'T MAKE ME ANGRY, YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M ANGRY"
jeanmonroe
I am sure in my opinion, that B H-H was assisted with the comments he made by The Met's media section. They smack of almost coming straight from a politician's mouth.
We the general public are expected to be taken in, by such "heartfelt" statements, when in reality they are just empty platitudes?!

B H-H's words 'smack of almost coming straight from a policitian's mouth', jat, because he's served by the same spinmerchants whose brief is to make his political masters look as if they give a damn about those they govern and control.

Against all the odds, what the Lawrences have achieved is to expose the endemic racism and corruption that continues to prevail in the Metropolitant Police: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In common with so many of his predecessors, B H-H has become a liability but, until such time as freemasonry is rooted out lock, stock, and barrel, from those institutions which are infested with its clandestine practices,the chances of ridding the Met of the ills that historically and currently possess it are slim to zero,

by justathought 08.03.14 17:53

ultimaThule wrote:
justathought wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:I started this thread.

I just wanted to point out the sheer, disgusting, 'duplicitous behaviour' of BHH, DCI Andy Redwood's 'big boss'

ENOUGH OF THE BULLSH*T 'disruption'!

"DON'T MAKE ME ANGRY, YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M ANGRY"
jeanmonroe
I am sure in my opinion, that B H-H was assisted with the comments he made by The Met's media section. They smack of almost coming straight from a politician's mouth.
We the general public are expected to be taken in, by such "heartfelt" statements, when in reality they are just empty platitudes?!
B H-H's words 'smack of almost coming straight from a policitian's mouth', jat, because he's served by the same spinmerchants whose brief is to make his political masters look as if they give a damn about those they govern and control.

Against all the odds, what the Lawrences have achieved is to expose the endemic racism and corruption that continues to prevail in the Metropolitant Police: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In common with so many of his predecessors, B H-H has become a liability but, until such time as freemasonry is rooted out lock, stock, and barrel, from those institutions which are infested with its clandestine practices,the chances of ridding the Met of the ills that historically and currently possess it are slim to zero,

I suppose part of the point I was trying to make and didn't put over properly. Is that B H-H appears to be portraying a genuine passion to change things. When in reality he personally won't (for a variety of reasons) and he knows he won't. He is living a lie.
Strange as it may seem, I would have had more respect for him. If he hadn't "dressed up" his comments (or The Met's media section hadn't) with empty platitudes.
ps maybe CM is doing a bit "moonlighting" for B H-H, advising him as to how to spin things?!

by ultimaThule 08.03.14 18:59

The reason B H-H was made Commissioner over other equally worthy and unworthy candidates is that he was able to more convincingly portray 'a genuine passion to change things' to suit his political masters.

However, his employers should have taken time to scrutinise his c.v more thoroughly and taken note of that additional H for which he's now under investigation, namely Hillsborough.

Rumour has it there was much rejoicing when CM took ~~the McCanns~~ Kennedy's shilling and, on that basis, I would think it safe to surmise his days of spinning for any government institution are well and truly over unless, of course, he's able to persuade the good people of Brighton Pavillion to elevate him to a seat in that pig trough which is known as the Commons.

by **PeterMac** 08.03.14 19:38

ultimaThule wrote: I would think it safe to surmise his days of spinning for any government institution are well and truly over unless, of course, he's able to persuade the good people of Brighton Pavillion to elevate him to a seat in that pig trough which is known as the Commons.

I hope you are right.
Material has also been sent to the present incumbent.
If there is ever a public debate, it could be most interesting, and entertaining !

by Guest 08.03.14 19:40

PeterMac wrote:
ultimaThule wrote: I would think it safe to surmise his days of spinning for any government institution are well and truly over unless, of course, he's able to persuade the good people of Brighton Pavillion to elevate him to a seat in that pig trough which is known as the Commons.
I hope you are right.
Material has also been sent to the present incumbent.
If there is ever a public debate, it could be most interesting, and entertaining !

***
Naughty, naughty ... But probably very effective ... big grin

by **PeterMac** 08.03.14 19:49

Châtelaine wrote:
Naughty, naughty ... But probably very effective ...

You should never withhold anything from your elected representative, nor from your GP, nor from your tax man ! !

by ultimaThule 08.03.14 20:16

Rightly or wrongly, I formed the impression there was more in it for CM than Kennedy's 80 grand per annum which seems a somewhat derisory sum for a mid-ranking civil servant to forego job security until he reaches pensionable age with a tidy sum in the pot at the end of his tenure.

Maybe some of the famed Mcpsychic powers rubbed off on the bouffant haired one - how else would he have had known in September 2007 that, having been abducted in May, Madeleine wouldn't be found possibly in Morocco, a country which his new paymaster was inordinately interested in ~~selling double glazing~~ searching?

by Guest 08.03.14 21:26

Is it too far a stretch of imagination to suppose mr Hogmanay just missed torpedoeing his subordinate AR's investigation?

by Guest 08.03.14 21:42

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by petunia 08.03.14 22:46

imo the the British govermemt is Corrupt regardless of who is in power (they all piss in the same pot) to coin a phrase.. The newspapers and news channels imo already try to tell us what to think and how to react to things.In ten years time, Russia and China will have freedom of speech imo.. Great Britain will be like Russia and China god help my Grandchildren that is all i can say

by coati mundi 09.03.14 0:33

I've just joined this discussion, but I would ask people to reflect on the scope and depth of police corruption and lying that is emerging from the Laurence case. I would like to think that the SY investigation about the McCanns would point in the right direction eventually, but I'm not holding my breath.They spied on the a family whose son had been murdered and although they admit that a police officer killed Blair Peach, no-one has ever ben arrested for it.

They haven't spent £7 million to enlighten us as to the farcical version of things that that the McCann parents wish us to believe but, I think, to obfuscate MBM's disappearance and conclude that there is no solution to it and that we can never know

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I still have optimism of the will

by jeanmonroe 09.03.14 13:41

coati mundi wrote:I've just joined this discussion, but I would ask people to reflect on the scope and depth of police corruption and lying that is emerging from the Laurence case. I would like to think that the SY investigation about the McCanns would point in the right direction eventually, but I'm not holding my breath.They spied on the a family whose son had been murdered and although they admit that a police officer killed Blair Peach, no-one has ever ben arrested for it.

They haven't spent £7 million to enlighten us as to the farcical version of things that that the McCann parents wish us to believe but, I think, to obfuscate MBM's disappearance and conclude that there is no solution to it and that we can never know

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I still have optimism of the will

Unless, of course, those damn pesky Portuguese 'shelve' their new investigation and RELEASE their second tranche of 'files' into the public domain.

A thing SY/Met have on control over, or power to, STOP.

Then we'll 'learn' all what was 'discussed' in the 20 'meetings' the Met have had, so they say, with PJ.

No wonder why Hog-Howe tried to pull THIS 'stroke' recently!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Met chief's bid to use secret courts to seize whistleblowers' files is foiled in victory for open justice

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe used secret hearing to try to make BSkyB reveal correspondence between one of its reporters and the SAS

But the broadcaster successfully appealed against decision in High Court

Met still determined to overturn the ruling and establish the principle that it could submit secret evidence in closed hearings

by Mirage 09.03.14 14:33

Thanks for the DM link, Jean. Very concerning indeed. Only 14 comments but some citizens are waking from their slumbers to enquire what is going on. It all makes you wonder what N Koreans used to look like before they became zombies.

I was impressed by the forthrightness of broadcaster Petroc Trelawny on HH during the week (Sky newspaper review). He expressed disdain at HH's wallowing in his "worst day", commenting it would be more appropriate for him to be lamenting the worst day ever for the MET. He added that HH had come over as complacent.

That's what strikes me too. It's as if the old bruiser's been through the Teflon coating machine. Still looks rough as rats though despite best efforts, IMHO.

Why, as someone wrote on the DM's comments board, has this man not been sacked yet?

by ultimaThule 09.03.14 15:01

It seems Bernie has become something of a liability in that, far from being fireproof, he's no longer perceived as being a safe pair of hands by his political paymasters.

His reign over the Met cannot be said to be anything other than inglorious with revelation after revelation (to coin Andy's phrase) marring what was intended to be a period in which public confidence in the capital's police force would take an upturn pending the next General Election.

Instead, H-H has singularly failed to impress and his recent admission that the Met has fiddled its crime figures is 'partly true' has ensured that the customary announcement will be made in the not too distant future.

H-H's tenure as Commissioner of what was once regarded as the finest police force in the world is hanging from the most slender of threads and, far from him torpedoing Grange, it wouldn't be surprising if he's knocking on the door of a certain MIT looking for AR to rescue him from the mire, or at least provide the respite afforded by attention being diverted to the only success the Met has achieved since he took office.

by Doug D 09.03.14 15:18

Met Police Press Release – Statement from the Commissioner

8^th March 2014 (17.25)

The Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Service, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, fully supports the call from Baroness Lawrence for decisive action following the publication of the reports by Mark Ellison QC and Chief Constable Mick Creedon.  The Commissioner will be replying privately to address all the detailed points made in her letter, which he has not yet seen.  In addition, the MPS is writing to Baroness Lawrence and to Mr Lawrence to request a meeting to share the findings of Operation Herne in private.  Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, said: "I want to assure Baroness Lawrence and Mr Lawrence, and the public, right now of my determination to act.  "Under my leadership, the Metropolitan Police will do all it can to redeem ourselves in their eyes. We will continue to seek to bring to justice those responsible for the murder of their son.  "I fully support the public inquiry announced by the Home Secretary on Thursday.  "I undertake to ensure that the Metropolitan Police shares everything with that inquiry and other investigations.  "The Metropolitan Police will not regain lost trust without honesty, openness and transparency.  "The amazing work of our officers and staff, day-in, day-out, to protect the people of London, risks being overshadowed if we do not all act with conviction and sincerity."  The Commissioner has already set in motion a series of actions to ensure that the current leadership of the MPS does everything it can to get to the truth about the past.  He is appointing an independently-led multi-disciplined team to look across the MPS for all records and data to assist the public inquiry and the other investigations.   Sir Bernard would like to discuss with Baroness Lawrence and Mr Lawrence how this operates so that it can have their trust and confidence.  The Commissioner has already instructed his Professional Standards team to examine where both reports should lead to action against individual officers. This must be done with due process, which began as soon as the MPS received Mr Ellison's report on Thursday morning.  One officer has already been moved and that matter has been voluntarily referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.  The Commissioner has also declared his intention to seek changes to employment laws to help recruit a Metropolitan Police Service that looks and feels like London.  His team has been working on proposals over the past year, to supplement the current recruitment campaign for 5,000 Constables. We need political support to make these changes.  The Commissioner has already committed to opening up the MPS to new leadership through direct entry at senior levels of policing. This is a unique opportunity to grow the number of very talented senior officers from minority backgrounds already working hard at the MPS on behalf of the people of London.   The Commissioner will give a considered response, with a wider set of actions, once the MPS has fully assessed the Ellison and Creedon Reports, and the set of changes announced by the Home Secretary. The MPS will do this thoroughly and then act with urgency and commitment.

…………………………………….

17.25 on a Saturday. Ideal time to publish something like this, too late to get picked up by the Sunday’s without a lot of work on their part.

Line 2:
'The Commissioner will be replying privately to address all the detailed points made in her letter, which he has not yet seen'.

I'm sorry, but why let a statement like this get released, commenting on a letter which he has not yet seen. Doesn't make sense. Maybe he already has CM working behind the scenes for him!

by jeanmonroe 09.03.14 15:24

or at least provide the respite afforded by attention being diverted to the only success the Met has achieved since he took office.
---------------------------------------------
????????????

"success"?

£7,500,000.00p and rising daily by £6,778.00p, 3 YEARS, 38 solely dedicated police to investigation, which has 'produced' NIL, NADA, ZILCH hardly 'qualfies' as a 'success', imo.

Unless i read it wrong.

by justathought 09.03.14 17:03

"The amazing work of our officers and staff, day-in, day-out, to protect the people of London, risks being overshadowed if we do not all act with conviction and sincerity."  
Classic spin being employed?!
What he should have said was ..... The amazing work of the vast majority of our officers and staff, day-in, day-out, to protect the people of London, risks being overshadowed if we do not all act with conviction and sincerity."  

by ultimaThule 09.03.14 17:37

jeanmonroe wrote:or at least provide the respite afforded by attention being diverted to the only success the Met has achieved since he took office.
---------------------------------------------
????????????

"success"?

£7,500,000.00p and rising daily by £6,778.00p, 3 YEARS, 38 solely dedicated police to investigation, which has 'produced' NIL, NADA, ZILCH hardly 'qualfies' as a 'success', imo.

Unless i read it wrong.

Oops! As AR is yet to produce the expected pair of rabbits out of the joint investigatory hat, please read it as 'attention being diverted to the only success the Met will have achieved since he took office".

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