Re: Gerry McCann's brother-in-law, Tony Rickwood, removes his depraved images of women drowning from an internet site

by **tigger** 24.12.13 8:30

admin wrote:
BlondSurfer wrote:Just to say.

Veritas is female i have known her forum persona for a good few years,she is a very clever (brainy) person.She is a bit fiery but she's an ok kind of woman.
According to his email address he's not a woman.
Muratfan likes to pretend he's a woman too.
Confusion is good, though, apparently.

So few options! Can we also have hermaphrodite? winkwink

@Bobbin: I need a much bigger screen ...........

by bobbin 24.12.13 8:35

Smokeandmirrors wrote:It's a shame Blacksmith needs to resort to bile and vulgarity.

I might have missed this bit. Which page is the BS writing on. It's a fast moving thread. friends

by bobbin 24.12.13 8:39

tigger wrote:
admin wrote:
BlondSurfer wrote:Just to say.

Veritas is female i have known her forum persona for a good few years,she is a very clever (brainy) person.She is a bit fiery but she's an ok kind of woman.
According to his email address he's not a woman.
Muratfan likes to pretend he's a woman too.
Confusion is good, though, apparently.

So few options! Can we also have hermaphrodite?

@Bobbin: I need a much bigger screen ...........

Other options - 'Don't know.'
re screen, would a Wide Cinema Screen do ? There's 10 of them in town, all under one big roof.

by BlondSurfer 24.12.13 8:43

admin wrote:
BlondSurfer wrote:Just to say.

Veritas is female i have known her forum persona for a good few years,she is a very clever (brainy) person.She is a bit fiery but she's an ok kind of woman.
According to his email address he's not a woman.
Muratfan likes to pretend he's a woman too.
Confusion is good, though, apparently.

I knew Veritas from "The Mirror forum" if it is someone using her name then that is not my fault.The way the poster posted came across as the Veritas that i knew from the poster i knew from the "Mirror" and other forums.

by aiyoyo 24.12.13 8:44

bobbin wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:It's a shame Blacksmith needs to resort to bile and vulgarity.
I might have missed this bit. Which page is the BS writing on. It's a fast moving thread.

On Blacksmith thread.
Warning: enter at your own peril!
Not pleasant at all, BS has descended to BB JATYK level.

by bobbin 24.12.13 8:48

aiyoyo wrote:
bobbin wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:It's a shame Blacksmith needs to resort to bile and vulgarity.
I might have missed this bit. Which page is the BS writing on. It's a fast moving thread.

On Blacksmith thread.
Warning: enter at your own peril!
Not pleasant at all, BS has descended to BB JATYK level.

Thanks aiyoyo, I'll go and look after I've had a strong cup of boiling water, with apple cider vinegar and Mediterranean herbs, and of course, my apple a day. Should be up to facing it then. big grin

by Smokeandmirrors 24.12.13 9:00

Arm yourself with disinfectant to sanitise your pc/laptop afterwards.

by plebgate 24.12.13 9:13

Keep up your excellent research Tony and others, it does seem to have hit a nerve with quite a few. smilie

by Bishop Brennan 24.12.13 9:50

Not much news on the forums these days. The top 2 threads on in the 'latest news' are not actually news at all...! I guess SY and PJ are enjoying the Festive Season. party

by Cristobell 24.12.13 10:42

tigger wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
plebgate wrote:How many more times are we going to hear the words witch hunt. Boring imo.

IMO there is no witch hunt. Tony and others have researched this man and his website and reported their findings.

Witch hunt don't make me laugh!

Seems to me a certain few are making a witch hunt against Tony because of his research about this man.

Exactly, and one wonders why. Where do their "interests" lie I wonder? If people want to support the creation of images portraying women floundering to an almost certain death as "creative" or "artistic", well that's their free will being exercised, but just think how you'd feel if your wife or daughter or mother had her picture incorporated into such imagery for a bunch of fetishists on the internet. It would take on a different complexion then.
What artists create is beyond our control Smokeandmirrors - we either like it or we don't, or of course we might just be completely indifferent. To imply our indifference equates to our having deviant interests of our own is a bit harsh. As juicy as the subject matter is, I have not visited the deviant art site because there are other aspects of this case that interest me more. As indeed do wider debates outside of this forum.

Unfortunately the notion of 'women in peril' has formed part of art, literature and popular culture since time began, and there may even be cave drawings of women tied to rocks while giant predators loomed. It is a fantasy firmly entrenched in our culture, indeed it is dominant in cultures throughout the world, usually ending with the Prince rescuing the Princess and everyone living happily ever after. Rickwood's strange hobby may simply be a follow on from those ideas, though I don't recall anyone mentioning any heroic rescue.

I am not defending him, he appears to be within the inner circle and I hope that Scotland Yard are investigating this aspect thoroughly.

I think your basic premise is wrong here. You speak of 'artists' so I presume you think Rickwood is an artist. Drawing a picture doesn't make you an artist anymore than writing a poem makes you a poet. Or taking photographs makes one a photographer.
Rickwood has learned to press a number of buttons to create images so we can see the results of his limited imagination.
That's it.

There are many people who can draw and paint - such as the street artists who will draw a portrait in half an hour but that's not art. Art is like a language you can learn but if you have nothing to say it's not art. This applies equally to the art of writing which is why biographies rarely if ever, win prizes, It's writing - such as 'madeleine' but it ain't literature.

I am not sure why you are being so precious over the use of the word Art. You state the work of street artists is not 'art' - perhaps you can tell us what it is?

Perhaps you could also tell us how to distinguish between what can be classified as art and what cannot. Does a painting become Art once it has been recognised by the establishment? Until then does it remain in the 'not art' pile?

To be honest I dislike elitism in art and music, to me a splodgy drawing a 5 year old brings home from school is as much a precious work of art as a Rembrant.

You don't consider Rickwood an artist, your prerogative, but some do, it matters not one jot to me either way.

by Cristobell 24.12.13 10:47

Tony Bennett wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
Unfortunately the notion of 'women in peril' has formed part of art, literature and popular culture since time began, and there may even be cave drawings of women tied to rocks while giant predators loomed.

Well, no, there aren't

It is a fantasy firmly entrenched in our culture, indeed it is dominant in cultures throughout the world,

Dominant?

usually ending with the Prince rescuing the Princess and everyone living happily ever after. Rickwood's strange hobby may simply be a follow on from those ideas,

Merely a 'cultural thing', then?

though I don't recall anyone mentioning any heroic rescue.

Indeed, very much to the contrary, Cristobell, giving his 'artwork' titles such as:

"Helpless"

"Sinking fast"

"OMG!"

"Chillin'", and

"No escape".

For the benefit of those who are watching my words so carefully, my use of the word dominant doesn't mean I am sat here trussed up in leather with a whip in my hand.

I was referring to the dominant ideology of our society, where women in peril is a common theme in popular entertainment.

by dromodaire 24.12.13 10:52

Glad to see it's okay to poke fun at Philomena's weight on this site; something which ties in very much with the moral high ground taken by many members on this forum.

by gbwales 24.12.13 11:03

Just to add my own opinion to the central point of this thread - 'Photoshopping' skills and their relevance - I do not believe Rickwood's technical skills to be sufficient to manage the kind of extremely sophisticated realism required in a manipulation such as that which some believe the "Last Photo" to be.
His quicksand stuff is not technically brilliant or artistically competent by any stretch when it comes to light and shadows etc and fine-tuning of colour matches within a complex and constructed image.

And as to the Last Photo itself, I have worked as a Head of Design and Design Editor in newspapers, magazines, web and digital TV and have worked with Photoshop pretty much day in day out since the mid 1990s, and my extensive time spent examining in minute detail the Last Photo does not suggest to me any kind of manipulation or 'Photoshopping' of the actual image - the bitmapped image of pixels we see. There remains of course the question of the photo's metadata - but that is a separate point. As far as 'Photoshopping' in the sense of digital manipulation of the pixels of an image is concerned I don't believe Rickwood would be up to the job, and neither do I believe the photo to be manipulated in that way.

by littlepixie 24.12.13 11:05

I think it goes Women in Peril who are rescued by a knight in shining armour, not that they die.
I was checking out a French Facebook page a young person had been visiting. I wanted to make sure it was appropriate.
The page used "pincachoo" type cartoons (human child-like cartoons with large appealing eyes) in its pornographic images.

One image had a row of pincachoo little girls in their underwear and asked people to pick which one they liked. These little girl figures looked about 5 or 6. Hundreds had responded.
They are not real little girls, they have been drawn. Are they art?

I have still reported it.

by Smokeandmirrors 24.12.13 11:36

Cristobell wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
plebgate wrote:How many more times are we going to hear the words witch hunt. Boring imo.

IMO there is no witch hunt. Tony and others have researched this man and his website and reported their findings.

Witch hunt don't make me laugh!

Seems to me a certain few are making a witch hunt against Tony because of his research about this man.

Exactly, and one wonders why. Where do their "interests" lie I wonder? If people want to support the creation of images portraying women floundering to an almost certain death as "creative" or "artistic", well that's their free will being exercised, but just think how you'd feel if your wife or daughter or mother had her picture incorporated into such imagery for a bunch of fetishists on the internet. It would take on a different complexion then.
What artists create is beyond our control Smokeandmirrors - we either like it or we don't, or of course we might just be completely indifferent. To imply our indifference equates to our having deviant interests of our own is a bit harsh. As juicy as the subject matter is, I have not visited the deviant art site because there are other aspects of this case that interest me more. As indeed do wider debates outside of this forum.

Unfortunately the notion of 'women in peril' has formed part of art, literature and popular culture since time began, and there may even be cave drawings of women tied to rocks while giant predators loomed. It is a fantasy firmly entrenched in our culture, indeed it is dominant in cultures throughout the world, usually ending with the Prince rescuing the Princess and everyone living happily ever after. Rickwood's strange hobby may simply be a follow on from those ideas, though I don't recall anyone mentioning any heroic rescue.

I am not defending him, he appears to be within the inner circle and I hope that Scotland Yard are investigating this aspect thoroughly.

It is true that there are very many depictions in various artistic mediums that explore areas and issues that are "challenging". There is going to be a broad range of responses to it, Gilbert and George, and the Chapman brothers have both created "challenging" works which I have seen in exhibitions. My personal instincts towards certain depictions is that they begin to normalise and desensitise subjects with have the potential to cause harm if they move too far along the continuum between what is saucy/risque/sensual to that which is highly illegal and extremely dangerous. There will always be the risk that the creator will wish to push certain boundaries ever further, and there must always be a cut-off point where enough is enough. Of course where that point should be is so very subjective it will always lead to disagreement. Unfortunately we see the newspapers filled with stories, tragic situations where that cut-off point never gets met and the victim ends up paying with their life.

by Copodenieve 24.12.13 12:52

I´m quite new on here and I´m just an ordinary mother with an average education. I love this forum and read as much as I can everyday. I think the Admin have a very difficult job here and I for one admire and respect them totally. Whilst Veritas (not sure if I have spelt his name correctly) made some good points he was pointedly attacking Tony in my opinion. He is articulated enough to be able to write in a diplomatic way to get his points across without trying to belittle others. IMO Vertias attacked and Tony defended himself. Candyfloss warned Veritas several times and he ignored her completely which was disrespectful to the admin. There have been other people on here who have in the past been warned by admin to curb their attitude and as far as I have seen, the members have apologised and the forum has moved on. This did not happen with Veritas.

by Guest 24.12.13 12:57

Copodenieve wrote:I´m quite new on here and I´m just an ordinary mother with an average education. I love this forum and read as much as I can everyday. I think the Admin have a very difficult job here and I for one admire and respect them totally. Whilst Veritas (not sure if I have spelt his name correctly) made some good points he was pointedly attacking Tony in my opinion. He is articulated enough to be able to write in a diplomatic way to get his points across without trying to belittle others. IMO Vertias attacked and Tony defended himself. Candyfloss warned Veritas several times and he ignored her completely which was disrespectful to the admin. There have been other people on here who have in the past been warned by admin to curb their attitude and as far as I have seen, the members have apologised and the forum has moved on. This did not happen with Veritas.

Thank you Copodenieve for your post. No-one is banned for a different opinion, and banning is always a last resort for me, and I certainly don't do it very often. You can have a different opinion and make your points, but attacking other members is breaking forum rules, and if members do not heed warnings, then there is no other alternative. sad

by Copodenieve 24.12.13 13:04

candyfloss wrote:
Copodenieve wrote:I´m quite new on here and I´m just an ordinary mother with an average education. I love this forum and read as much as I can everyday. I think the Admin have a very difficult job here and I for one admire and respect them totally. Whilst Veritas (not sure if I have spelt his name correctly) made some good points he was pointedly attacking Tony in my opinion. He is articulated enough to be able to write in a diplomatic way to get his points across without trying to belittle others. IMO Vertias attacked and Tony defended himself. Candyfloss warned Veritas several times and he ignored her completely which was disrespectful to the admin. There have been other people on here who have in the past been warned by admin to curb their attitude and as far as I have seen, the members have apologised and the forum has moved on. This did not happen with Veritas.

Thank you Copodenieve for your post. No-one is banned for a different opinion, and banning is always a last resort for me, and I certainly don't do it very often. You can have a different opinion and make your points, but attacking other members is breaking forum rules, and if members do not heed warnings, then there is no other alternative.

I totally agree with you Candyfloss. You do a fab job! Merry Xmas xxx

by aiyoyo 24.12.13 14:04

Cristobell wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
Unfortunately the notion of 'women in peril' has formed part of art, literature and popular culture since time began, and there may even be cave drawings of women tied to rocks while giant predators loomed.

Well, no, there aren't

It is a fantasy firmly entrenched in our culture, indeed it is dominant in cultures throughout the world,

Dominant?

usually ending with the Prince rescuing the Princess and everyone living happily ever after. Rickwood's strange hobby may simply be a follow on from those ideas,

Merely a 'cultural thing', then?

though I don't recall anyone mentioning any heroic rescue.

Indeed, very much to the contrary, Cristobell, giving his 'artwork' titles such as:

"Helpless"

"Sinking fast"

"OMG!"

"Chillin'", and

"No escape".

For the benefit of those who are watching my words so carefully, my use of the word dominant doesn't mean I am sat here trussed up in leather with a whip in my hand.

HA HA so funny - that actually makes me conjure up an image of you in that and it does not quite fit.

That's exactly what Amanda Knox said on TV when questioned about allegation of her deviant sex......

I was referring to the dominant ideology of our society, where women in peril is a common theme in popular entertainment.

by Cristobell 24.12.13 16:07

I was in fact being sarcastic Aiyoyo, as it appears if you don't condemn someone you must be part of their bizarre world.

Why you would class me in the same bracket as Casey Anthony, I cannot fathom, in fact I find it rather insulting, which I think was probably the intention.

This thread, indeed this forum, is teetering on the edge of Arthur Miller's Crucible, with people pointing fingers and shouting deviant at those who voice a different opinion. Its all getting rather silly.

by Cristobell 24.12.13 16:49

Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
plebgate wrote:How many more times are we going to hear the words witch hunt. Boring imo.

IMO there is no witch hunt. Tony and others have researched this man and his website and reported their findings.

Witch hunt don't make me laugh!

Seems to me a certain few are making a witch hunt against Tony because of his research about this man.

Exactly, and one wonders why. Where do their "interests" lie I wonder? If people want to support the creation of images portraying women floundering to an almost certain death as "creative" or "artistic", well that's their free will being exercised, but just think how you'd feel if your wife or daughter or mother had her picture incorporated into such imagery for a bunch of fetishists on the internet. It would take on a different complexion then.
What artists create is beyond our control Smokeandmirrors - we either like it or we don't, or of course we might just be completely indifferent. To imply our indifference equates to our having deviant interests of our own is a bit harsh. As juicy as the subject matter is, I have not visited the deviant art site because there are other aspects of this case that interest me more. As indeed do wider debates outside of this forum.

Unfortunately the notion of 'women in peril' has formed part of art, literature and popular culture since time began, and there may even be cave drawings of women tied to rocks while giant predators loomed. It is a fantasy firmly entrenched in our culture, indeed it is dominant in cultures throughout the world, usually ending with the Prince rescuing the Princess and everyone living happily ever after. Rickwood's strange hobby may simply be a follow on from those ideas, though I don't recall anyone mentioning any heroic rescue.

I am not defending him, he appears to be within the inner circle and I hope that Scotland Yard are investigating this aspect thoroughly.

It is true that there are very many depictions in various artistic mediums that explore areas and issues that are "challenging". There is going to be a broad range of responses to it, Gilbert and George, and the Chapman brothers have both created "challenging" works which I have seen in exhibitions. My personal instincts towards certain depictions is that they begin to normalise and desensitise subjects with have the potential to cause harm if they move too far along the continuum between what is saucy/risque/sensual to that which is highly illegal and extremely dangerous. There will always be the risk that the creator will wish to push certain boundaries ever further, and there must always be a cut-off point where enough is enough. Of course where that point should be is so very subjective it will always lead to disagreement. Unfortunately we see the newspapers filled with stories, tragic situations where that cut-off point never gets met and the victim ends up paying with their life.

The potential to cause harm is a debate on its own Smoke&Mirrors. Who can say what it is that trips the switch that turns the psychopath into an evil killer. Whilst it could be a diet of graphic violent films or images, it could equally be the face of an innocent cherub on a box of soap powder.

Millions of people watch scary films, slasher movies even, but they do not go on to chop up their next door neighbours. Because one deranged person (out of millions) commits a heinous crime as a result of watching such a movie, should they all be banned?

Moving the debate into the area of pornography, obviously there is a huge market for it, or it wouldn't exist. Again, it is watched by millions who do not go on to become rapists, murderers or sexual deviants. I personally couldn't care less what people get up to as long as they don't hurt children and vulnerable adults.

I know some will throwing their hands in the air in horror right about now and shouting 'Think of the Children', but in my opinion, children raised in loving environment will takes these films, images or whatever with a pinch of salt, and move on. I hid the Robocop and Judge Dredd in the top of my wardrobe when my lads were small, but they have since told me they knew exactly where they were and climbed on a chair as soon as I went out!

I also had a laissez faire attitude to censorship of the internet. I knew they would outwit me on the parental controls within a nanosecond, and when I discovered 13yr old son having a flirtation with a buxom 18yr old by the name of Lollipop Happy, I simply pointed out that the gorgeous Lollipop was probably a 55 year old builder with a hairy arse - it seemed to do the trick.

But returning to those images, we are on dodgy ground here, because we have entered the area of censorship. It can be proved over and over again that a psychopath was influenced by images they have seen, no argument from me there, but we must remember that a psychopath is a psychopath and if it hadn't been one particular film or image, it would have been another.

by ProfessorPPlum 24.12.13 16:54

Cristobell I like the dose of sanity you bring (even if we disagree on the People Voice issue!) big grin

by whatliesbehindthesofa 24.12.13 16:56

ProfessorPPlum wrote:Cristobell I like the dose of sanity you bring (even if we disagree on the People Voice issue!)

Me too!

by dromodaire 24.12.13 17:48

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
ProfessorPPlum wrote:Cristobell I like the dose of sanity you bring (even if we disagree on the People Voice issue!)

Me too!

Touche.

Also I have to give a shout out for Deviantart, a forum which I only knew of, prior to it's infamous appearance here, as a website for some incredibly talented paint and pencil artists. Although I kind of agree with what Tigger was saying earlier on about lots of artists lacking any real insight/inspiration, you have to take your hat off to the ridiculously stunning technical ability of some of these pencil and paint wizzards, all of whom, quite frankly, make me green with envy.

by chillyheat 24.12.13 18:01

dromodaire wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
ProfessorPPlum wrote:Cristobell I like the dose of sanity you bring (even if we disagree on the People Voice issue!)

Me too!
Touche.

Also I have to give a shout out for Deviantart, a forum which I only knew of, prior to it's infamous appearance here, as a website for some incredibly talented paint and pencil artists. Although I kind of agree with what Tigger was saying earlier on about lots of artists lacking any real insight/inspiration, you have to take your hat off to the ridiculously stunning technical ability of some of these pencil and paint wizzards, all of whom, quite frankly, make me green with envy.

......

by dromodaire 24.12.13 19:51

ChillyHeat wrote:
dromodaire wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
ProfessorPPlum wrote:Cristobell I like the dose of sanity you bring (even if we disagree on the People Voice issue!)

Me too!
Touche.

Also I have to give a shout out for Deviantart, a forum which I only knew of, prior to it's infamous appearance here, as a website for some incredibly talented paint and pencil artists. Although I kind of agree with what Tigger was saying earlier on about lots of artists lacking any real insight/inspiration, you have to take your hat off to the ridiculously stunning technical ability of some of these pencil and paint wizzards, all of whom, quite frankly, make me green with envy.
  ......

For example [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 24.12.13 20:02

I don't really want to, but I would otherwise put "art" into discussion again...

by Guest 24.12.13 20:02

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Recording and tracking devices were placed in his home and car, while a surveillance team was on standby 24 hours a day to clock his every move in the belief that he would lead officers to his daughter's body.

Deeply personal discussions between Mr Dowler, his wife Sally and daughter Gemma were relayed to a police station.

The operation was launched because police had initial doubts over Mr Dowler's alibi. Officers also found pornography and bondage equipment during a search of the family home. None of the material found was illegal.

Detectives admit the surveillance operation on Mr Dowler was a 'major distraction' in the early days of the investigation, but insist it had to be carried out to rule him out of the inquiry. They also point out that abductions by strangers are notoriously difficult to solve.

But critics claim the bugging initiative was one of many blunders which enabled Bellfield to go on to murder Marsha McDonnell and Amelie Delagrange.

Thought it was interesting in the context of this thread. It's a minefield out there.

by aiyoyo 24.12.13 21:09

Cristobell wrote:I was in fact being sarcastic Aiyoyo, as it appears if you don't condemn someone you must be part of their bizarre world.

Why you would class me in the same bracket as Casey Anthony, I cannot fathom, in fact I find it rather insulting, which I think was probably the intention.

This thread, indeed this forum, is teetering on the edge of Arthur Miller's Crucible, with people pointing fingers and shouting deviant at those who voice a different opinion. Its all getting rather silly.

Oh come on, Cristobell, give over.

I recognise your bravery, civilised manner and good contributions.

It's just that your use of the words leather and whip was exactly what Amanda Knox said when asked about her alleged deviant sex that I find so funny coming from you. I just cant imagine you stripping leather whip in hands that's why I find it so hilarious you even mentioned it.

Have A Very Merry Christmas.

by **Tony Bennett** 24.12.13 21:35

dromodaire wrote:Glad to see it's okay to poke fun at Philomena's weight on this site; something which ties in very much with the moral high ground taken by many members on this forum.

I think to be fair that 'candyfloss' and the other Mods must have missed the very brief reference up the thread to Philomena's size (bobbin at 8.26am today).

In fact, this forum has never tolerated abusive references to how people look - the McCanns or anyone else - nor has it tolerated swearing and other forms of abuse.

Gerry McCann's brother-in-law, Tony Rickwood, removes his depraved images of women drowning from an internet site