Re: Justice or Whitewash?

by Sockpuppet 26.10.13 18:23

sofa wrote:They close the investigation when GA was removed although the MC were closed to be charged. Therefore, unless GA is taken over (which obviously will never happen) I believe it is a whitewash. The PJ reopening the case will only re-enforce the MC being innocent.

The white-washing was already complete back in 2008. Amaral was replaced by a nodding dog yes man, and for the remainder of the investigation very little was done until the only option left was to shelve it.

As white-washes go, that was surely 'job done', wouldn't you agree?

With that in mind, it makes no sense to re-open it in 2013 to white-wash it a second time.

by sofa 26.10.13 18:28

I understand the whitewash was done then, but they had to reopened the case due to new element(s) they legally had to reopen however I don't believe there will be an end to the whitewash apart that now they really need to find a perpetrator to put this case to rest.

by tracey1270 26.10.13 18:31

I don't think it is a whitewash I think the next step is putting pressure on the Tapas 7, I don't think there is any new suspects but a new line of enquiry could still involve them, The PJ could be planning to break them down one by one. They know a lot more than they are telling and aside from their reputations and jobs they could still yet face charges themselves if the Mcann's were to be charged. They are so tight lipped everything has to go through GM but I am sure at the risk of ending up in jail for giving the police misleading information, or even being accused of being directly involved in the disappearance of Madeleine themselves one or more of them might just cave in and tell the truth.

by Woofer 26.10.13 18:32

If it is a whitewash, it will obviously be to protect the McCanns. I doubt there would be a whitewash if they were solely guilty - I think they would have been charged by now. But if they were part of an organisation like Operation Ore to lure and trap paedophiles, obviously Jim Gamble is going to back them and probably our police force and government. All the Tapas could be in the know if it had been going on for a few years and would explain why DP asked GM if `she did this and that` as they would be using their children as lures. All little blonde girls and one in particularly who wore make up sometimes and posed provocatively. If the detectives who were watching the apartment out on the street missed catching the paedos, the operation would be to blame. It is really the only reason I can think of them legitimately being protected. This is just a suggestion and not to be taken as true.

by notlongnow 26.10.13 18:44

Woofer wrote:If it is a whitewash, it will obviously be to protect the McCanns. I doubt there would be a whitewash if they were solely guilty - I think they would have been charged by now. But if they were part of an organisation like Operation Ore to lure and trap paedophiles, obviously Jim Gamble is going to back them and probably our police force and government. All the Tapas could be in the know if it had been going on for a few years and would explain why DP asked GM if `she did this and that` as they would be using their children as lures. All little blonde girls and one in particularly who wore make up sometimes and posed provocatively. If the detectives who were watching the apartment out on the street missed catching the paedos, the operation would be to blame. It is really the only reason I can think of them legitimately being protected. This is just a suggestion and not to be taken as true.

Never heard of this before.
Don't understand how taking maddie would help to lure paedo's.

by Truthandjustice 26.10.13 19:13

I have more faith in the Portuguese justice system than our own. Transparency in the publishing of files. I am more optimistic in Justice being fulfilled since they re opened the case than I was when SY were investigating.

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 19:17

Truthandjustice wrote:I have more faith in the Portuguese justice system than our own. Transparency in the publishing of files. I am more optimistic in Justice being fulfilled since they re opened the case than I was when SY were investigating.

I have more faith in father christmas then I do in our own big grin

by Google.Gaspar.Statements 26.10.13 19:24

I voted justice, but tbh I could live with a whitewash provided the McC's were told to stay off our telly's, stay out of our newspapers and stay out of our lives ffs. Enough already!

by galena 26.10.13 19:25

SixMillionQuid wrote:We've had two confirmations that the parents are not suspects. The parent's have not been made Arguido again despite the case being re opened. Sorry but I don't were else you can go from there.

I tend to agree with you there. They did not have to say they were not suspects, they could simply have said nothing at all and let people speculate ...

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 19:28

galena wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:We've had two confirmations that the parents are not suspects. The parent's have not been made Arguido again despite the case being re opened. Sorry but I don't were else you can go from there.
I tend to agree with you there. They did not have to say they were not suspects, they could simply have said nothing at all and let people speculate ...

And also lets them 'speculate' if nothing is said, as they did with PJ when they thwarted their investigation......no, making people think they are in the clear, relaxes them and makes them more likely to slip up..or at least lets you get on with investigating :/

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 19:31

And also PJ could not reopen case with the same arguidos...there has to be 'new' evidence to reopen a shelved case..sorry but that is how it goes..so reopening on a possible kidnap/abduction was the clearest route..it does not mean they will not come to the same conclusion as they did before...albeit through a different route...

by aiyoyo 26.10.13 19:43

I vote the Police are busying sweeping and burying it under the carpet,
Now they can say despite new leads and re-going over with new teams and new eyes, no one is any wiser what happened to Madeleine.
The Mccanns will write a few more books and maybe land a movie deal with Hollywood, pay off their lawyers and PR, and have plenty leftover to buy a chateau.

Madeleine has become a phenomenon.
People will still be talking about her and her parents in similar fashion as JonBennetRamsay, forever in the public psyche as mystical event in history.
Just like JBR, for as long as Madeleine disapperance remains unsolved, her parents will remain under clouds of suspicion - that is synonymous.

by Beanie 26.10.13 19:47

galena wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:We've had two confirmations that the parents are not suspects. The parent's have not been made Arguido again despite the case being re opened. Sorry but I don't were else you can go from there.
I tend to agree with you there. They did not have to say they were not suspects, they could simply have said nothing at all and let people speculate ...

Is it not the McCanns lawyer who has said they are not suspects or have I missed the PJ saying this?

by petunia 26.10.13 19:48

i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 19:52

petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.

wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking clapping

by susible 26.10.13 19:53

I'm firmly in the justice camp. As I and many others have said, if there was going to be a whitewash it would have been done and dusted when the case was shelved in 2008. What on earth would the point be in starting a review, which morphs into an investigation, along with the CPS visiting Portugal earlier in the year and then the PJ re-opening the case, just to "whitewash" the case and declare the McCanns innocent?

Bottom line is that both police forces must have evidence that will actually provide a conclusion and for those that say they will blame it on a dead paedo, I think that is highly unlikely as yet again they need solid evidence of that. Therefore they need to find a perpetrator they can arrest and charge as well as evidence of that perpetrator having or having had Madeleine (so a dead or alive child) in order to make anything stick.

by Beanie 26.10.13 20:02

susible wrote:I'm firmly in the justice camp. As I and many others have said, if there was going to be a whitewash it would have been done and dusted when the case was shelved in 2008. What on earth would the point be in starting a review, which morphs into an investigation, along with the CPS visiting Portugal earlier in the year and then the PJ re-opening the case, just to "whitewash" the case and declare the McCanns innocent?

Bottom line is that both police forces must have evidence that will actually provide a conclusion and for those that say they will blame it on a dead paedo, I think that is highly unlikely as yet again they need solid evidence of that. Therefore they need to find a perpetrator they can arrest and charge as well as evidence of that perpetrator having or having had Madeleine (so a dead or alive child) in order to make anything stick.

Well said susible.

by Woofer 26.10.13 20:02

notlongnow wrote:
Woofer wrote:If it is a whitewash, it will obviously be to protect the McCanns. I doubt there would be a whitewash if they were solely guilty - I think they would have been charged by now. But if they were part of an organisation like Operation Ore to lure and trap paedophiles, obviously Jim Gamble is going to back them and probably our police force and government. All the Tapas could be in the know if it had been going on for a few years and would explain why DP asked GM if `she did this and that` as they would be using their children as lures. All little blonde girls and one in particularly who wore make up sometimes and posed provocatively. If the detectives who were watching the apartment out on the street missed catching the paedos, the operation would be to blame. It is really the only reason I can think of them legitimately being protected. This is just a suggestion and not to be taken as true.
Never heard of this before.
Don't understand how taking maddie would help to lure paedo's.

It wouldn't. That's not what I said. I'm surmising it being a lure that went wrong and she was harmed and/or taken. They would be able to leave their children unattended if the apartments were being monitored by detectives (who took their eyes off the job).
Just a supposition that might exxplain a whitewash.

by lj 26.10.13 20:06

stillsloppingout wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:We've had two confirmations that the parents are not suspects. The parent's have not been made Arguido again despite the case being re opened. Sorry but I don't were else you can go from there.
If they are allowed to look at ALL the info then game over .[ some of it maybe to give the impression they are working with them ] .
Because if they were made Arguido , they would NOT step foot back in Portugal again . so rock and hard place .

Without a body, with it full exoneration ,[ platitudes from fawning SY coppers don't count ,] they will never be truly cleared in the publics eyes .

And i, know for one, organisations and charities that will not touch them .

[ BTW it is very creepy taking pic's in a busy room at an event, and bumping into one of the main protagonist's , it doe's send you cold ] . I wont mention any names .

Can't you slip a mini mike in their pocket? I have wished so many times to be a fly on their wall.

I think most people won't believe what they hear.

by garfy 26.10.13 20:14

thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking

good point petunia...

could it be Jane tanner .....that's why her sighting was conveniently covered up

by petunia 26.10.13 20:23

thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking

thetruthbeknown i am going with Jane.after all these years of tannerman and now he has mysteriously disappeared,and if she has grassed imo SY will protect her.

by petunia 26.10.13 20:33

garfy wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking
good point petunia...

could it be Jane tanner .....that's why her sighting was conveniently covered up

garfy i am feeling it's jane.

by Smokeandmirrors 26.10.13 20:36

With this whole justice/whitewash issue I keep changing my mind. The latest developments have left me totally confused, I don't mind admitting that. When crime watch was shown, I thought there were some good steps forward with the discounting Tannerman. I was curious about the omission of the Paynes particularly David's alleged visit to the apartment which would account for the last sighting of Madeleine, though there would be obvious bias to take into consideration.

I observed Andy Redwood with interest and wasn't convinced he wasn't trying to convince the viewer of a scenario somewhat different from the reality, because that's what happens in an investigation - or at least should be the case, keeping cards close to the chest etc.

The one thing that propels me towards thinking justice will finally be served is the omission in ALL recent presentations, of stating that they are looking at a STRANGER abduction. This has not been implicitly stated.

On the other hand, I cannot help but feel that there is some sort of bigger picture, some involvement by other, more "important" individuals in some sort of pedophile connection to this case (we have Yewtree and Fernbridge ongoing, and other pointers that cannot be mentioned for reasons of libel accusations). And depending WHO is involved and WHAT is at stake, it may very well be that those who are pulling the strings here might go to ANY lengths to prevent public exposure.

Definitely I'm a fence sitter at this point.

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 20:43

petunia wrote:
garfy wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking
good point petunia...

could it be Jane tanner .....that's why her sighting was conveniently covered up
garfy i am feeling it's jane.

Interesting...you know what..it wouldnt be unusual to do a bit of 'bargaining' if it means a close to a case..I know im new here, and yes im a bit 'niave' in the ins and outs of the Mccann case, im still reading..but I do have knowledge of police procedure, here and abroad :) And thats quite possible, if she had broken, and said she didnt want it known that she had identified tannerman in order to cause distraction, or cover up..then yes, its a possibility a police force (although no experience of one such as SY, which may be far stricter?) Would allow a 'smoothing over' of that particular fact, in return for the information needed for conviction ....

by Guest 26.10.13 20:43

Very reluctantly a whitewash. Whatever caused it to be a whitewash the first time still remains in the murky background. Whatever was being protected then is so big as to be a matter of national security, according to the Leicestershire police. I fear it's to do with the alleged 'elite paedophile' ring some believe is operational right up through the higher echelons of our society. I hope and pray that no such ring exists and Madeleine wasn't caught up in any such evil, but there was a reason for Blair and Brown's interference and the whisking away from Portugal of the McCanns when things got sticky. Monstrousness on that scale does not go away as the implications and consequences for the fabric of our constitution if some of the most powerful people are found to be involved would be catastrophic and would not be allowed to happen. It would not be permitted. Ever.

Only if something has changed which allows any culpability of the McCanns to be revealed without linking the tragedy to the above theory (and it's purely a horrible theory which may or may not have any legs) or indeed any other shady dealings which were happening at that time will, I believe, see Madeleine get her justice.

I hope and pray that's the case and she will. But I fear it's a small hope, albeit one that does still exist. Justice for Madeleine. pray2

by notlongnow 26.10.13 20:45

I feel it maybe a deal that was struck over tannerman.
But that would also let whoever else is involved know to.

by Beanie 26.10.13 20:52

When Sofia Leal wrote the open letter stating the McCanns had friends who were paedophiles I assumed she was referring to the Gasper statement! Perhaps Sofia was referring to others as well.

by Beanie 26.10.13 21:31

Well after reading Pat Brown's new post I am feeling very down sad

by plebgate 26.10.13 21:38

I have no knowledge of how police go about their business but if one of them had cracked, told everything, (whatever that is) why wouldn't the cops haul them all in, tell them that they have a confession and know everything.

If one of them has cracked I think they would be asking for a deal for their partner as well, so that would mean that at least two had "told all"?

Why not just arrest the lot, questions and then bail them pending further enquiries?

This is what happens on the cops shows lol.

by susible 26.10.13 21:42

Beanie wrote:Well after reading Pat Brown's new post I am feeling very down

Whilst I admire Pat Brown for her stance in relation to the case, I think we have to remember that she is just voicing her opinion and I have noticed that recently she's been particularly negative about the possible outcome of the case, but I don't think her views are based on any real information, how could it be and although I do understand why people may not believe that there will be a satisfactory outcome, I don't see any justification for those opinions, in fact I see the total opposite.