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Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

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Operation Grange is...

1. A genuine search for truth and justice
 
2. A cover-up and a whitewash
 
 
 
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Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Tony Bennett on 02.10.14 11:14

The forum-owner ran this poll starting on 26 October last year:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8309-justice-or-whitewash

She introduced it with just this one line:

QUOTE

"I don't think it's necessary for a third option ( 3. Don't know) because none of us know, but maybe we can vote with our gut instinct..."

UNQUOTE

I won't add to her words

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by HelenMeg on 02.10.14 11:21

Well I cant vote in either category.
I dont think it is a genuine search for the truth. 
I think it is an attempt to seek closure to a case, by not exposing the whole truth but by exposing as much of the truth as possible without exposing the scandalous behaviour of someone who has high level connections. If that is a whitewash then I guess I would fall into that category

ETA I have therefore gone back on my original comment and voted whitewash... nah

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Angelique on 02.10.14 11:38

When the Review now Investigation started my initial gut feeling was this would be a whitewash. I voted the same this time. It was an opportunity to allow NOW/McCanns/various Goverment employees etc., etc., to improve their Bank Accounts, whilst seconding Officers of the MET who would otherwise have been made redundant to continue employment/furnish their Pensions etc., etc.

They are all tainted.

A money making opportunity - with a Review/Investigation at the taxpayers expense.

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 02.10.14 13:07

Whitewash, haven't seen anything so far from OG which leads me to think they are conducting a genuine search for truth and justice.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 02.10.14 19:03

Whitewash.

Last time I had hope that the Portuguese investigation was fighting for the reputation of their country and Goncalo Amaral. Now I don't even believe an investigation is taking place over there at all. It's all been quiet over there since Tractorman was named and dismissed.

Bit miserable, really.
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Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by sammyc on 02.10.14 20:09

I voted whitewash. After reading another member's post on a different thread regarding the woman who has been outed could be a paid troll I am now veering towards whitewash and protection of somebody very important.

If Martin Brunt and a Sky news would have come up to me in the street and confronted me about my internet comments I would have just kept saying 'PJ Files' , 'Eddie and Keela' , 'Gaspar Statements'.  I'm pretty sure those scenes wouldn't be aired.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Hicks on 02.10.14 21:54

Whitewash.

Some VIP is being protected imo. I can't think of any other reason why SY should not look with keen interest at the people who were closest to Madeleine on that holiday. There was no evidence of an abduction, but there was evidence of a corpse having been in apartment 5a, all seemingly ignored, which is in fact quite incredible.

I found a Daily Mail article regarding witness reports about the black car seen 30 minutes before Madeleine vanished.
This info could be a big clue, one that has (purposely) been erased over time.  A diplomats car maybe? Interesting that it was seen by the supermarket. Wasn't that where the sniffer dogs lost the scent? 

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=453015&in_page_id=1770.

Hope it's ok to put it here. If not please move.

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 02.10.14 22:02

@ Hicks that link is about an army girl?

I want to believe its not a whitewash but after all this time and no apparent interview of the only ones to make the claim of an abduction what else can it be?
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Hicks on 02.10.14 22:14

WMD wrote:@ Hicks that link is about an army girl?

I want to believe its not a whitewash but after all this time and no apparent interview of the only ones to make the claim of an abduction what else can it be?
The link doesn't work. I try again.

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Woofer on 02.10.14 23:39

I was on the fence some months ago, but it looks like a whitewash more and more, particularly with the recent S&S book commissioned to assist - and another payout just because the ST printed that they`d held on to the efits.  No hope for justice afaic.  There is obviously something so detrimental to the establishment that it can never be allowed to surface.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Bishop Brennan on 03.10.14 4:19

There are two major clues that 'prove' this to be a part of a whitewash:

1. The original remit from DC - to investigate this 'as an abduction'.   This instantly removed SY's ability to investigate the McCanns or T7 despite the PJ conclusion.

2. Abandoning the original remit (to assist the PJ) and starting their own independent investigation.

Had this been a genuine search for truth, then SY would have passed on any useful information to the PJ as per the remit.  The moment they started issuing ILRs, visiting the site, digging up PDL, and declaring 'arguidos', we knew that this was a whitewash.  Why depart from the remit?   Why go on an evidence hunt in a foreign country with nothing more than a theory?  These things just do not happen in the real world.  Never.  

The original remit was created by DC and Home Office.  And ONLY the Home Office could authorise SY to go so spectacularly beyond that remit.  So the whitewash is real, and it is coming from high up - not from within SY who are simply doing what they are told.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by joyce1938 on 03.10.14 9:54

My biggest was that once the met go away ,the pj will reapper with their verdict ,as I have thought thay are still working away behind scene only problem now is ,if their courts are in one awfull state as we have been led to believe re libel trial ,well it just makes me now think ,its all cost far too much for pj and as a country ,maybe time to stop,after all the flack they had to take in the beginning  and removing the one man that would have taken it further ,what a clever move that was,sadly .joyce1938
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by MrsC on 03.10.14 10:09

My gut instinct right from the very beginning was that something was being hidden or covered up. Nothing has happened since to change my mind so I voted 'whitewash'.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by aquila on 03.10.14 10:55

Summers & Swan write a book. In it they state they have met with Andy Redwood and the McCanns.

Summers & Swan book receives serialisation in The Sun along with the appearance of Jim Gamble.

The book has several pages using the term 'hater'.

A dossier of horrid tweets is passed to the police by 'concerned people' and it is now reported Scotland Yard along with the CPS are looking into it.

Sky's Martin Brunt doorsteps a 'troll' and SKY devote much of their newsday coverage to the McCanns.

Gerald McCann writes in the Guardian about press regulation and does a Radio 4 interview.

The McCanns receive an out of court settlement from the ST which is going to un-named charities.

That's one hell of a campaign and it didn't happen on the spur of the moment did it!(imo of course).

Oh, and I have yet to see any appeal with an age-progression photo, e-fits of people of interest or the number to call if anyone has information - but then again NONE of this is about Madeleine - she's the cash cow for just about anyone wishing to make a political point - why even her parents have an online shop.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Rufus T on 03.10.14 12:08

Cn't see it being anything other than a whitewash. Aquila you have summed it up for me. agree
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by plebgate on 03.10.14 12:14

I too am now beginning to think Whitewash (although I still hope not).

After all that has gone on this past week or so it is difficult for me to believe that this will end any other way than a whitewash, especially as I remembered last night about that standing ovation Mr. received from police officers.   Why would any police officer give a standing ovation to a man who had left his three children alone in an apartment in a foreign land, several nights in a row?   

I asked on another thread, who are these two doctors and why do they seem to get such preferential treatment?   Standing ovation, the more I think about it, the more I cannot believe it.   Standing ovation after admitting leaving their children alone in a foreign land, in a strange apartment when they went out wining and dining with their friends who also admitted to doing the same.

Standing Ovation indeed.  PAH.

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 03.10.14 19:13

@joyce1938 wrote:My biggest was that once the met go away ,the pj will reapper with their verdict ,as I have thought thay are still working away behind scene only problem now is ,if their courts are in one awfull state as we have been led to believe re libel trial ,well it just makes me now think ,its all cost far too much for pj and as a country ,maybe time to stop,after all the flack they had to take in the beginning  and removing the one man that would have taken it further ,what a clever move that was,sadly .joyce1938

Joyce, the PJ were my only hope, but for whatever reason - cost, as you describe above, political pressure, a belief that corroberating evidence can never be found, whatever - I am now reasonably convinced that there is little or nothing happening at their end.

I my most cynical moments, I even wonder if the Portuguese investigation was only re-opened to to be a 'foot in the camp' for the Met, i.e., to be a vehicle for practical use by the Met in Portugal.

But I am very cynical indeed, and it's just my opinion.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by tiredofthebs on 03.10.14 20:57

This was always going to be a whitewash. I knew it back in 2007 when the McCanns were allowed to flee portugal and Clarence started pretending to be a copper and showing us photofits of swarthy George Harrison lookalikes.

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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by MRNOODLES on 05.10.14 11:54

I'm starting to swing towards cover-up now. The book and Sky's latest bias towards the parents have done it for me.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 05.10.14 13:12

WMD wrote:

I want to believe its not a whitewash but after all this time and no apparent interview of the only ones to make the claim of an abduction what else can it be?
Then I read things like this that gives me hope,they don't want to tread on the PJ toes.

Tony’s original request about Redwood’s helicopter trip dated 29th May was refused by the Met on 11th June under the following:
 
Section 27 International Relations
Under Section 27(1) of the Act, Public Authorities are able to withhold
information where its release would, or would be likely to, have an
adverse effect upon International Relations.
 
Section 30 - Investigations
Under Section 30(1)(a) of the Act, Public Authorities are able to withhold
information relating to investigations where its release would or would be
likely to, have an adverse effect upon other investigations or the
prosecution of offenders.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10231-freedom-of-information-requests-re-madeleine-mccann-the-cost-of-operation-grange-request-refused
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 05.10.14 13:20

WMD wrote:
WMD wrote:

I want to believe its not a whitewash but after all this time and no apparent interview of the only ones to make the claim of an abduction what else can it be?
Then I read things like this that gives me hope,they don't want to tread on the PJ toes.

Tony’s original request about Redwood’s helicopter trip dated 29th May was refused by the Met on 11th June under the following:
 
Section 27 International Relations
Under Section 27(1) of the Act, Public Authorities are able to withhold
information where its release would, or would be likely to, have an
adverse effect upon International Relations.
 
Section 30 - Investigations
Under Section 30(1)(a) of the Act, Public Authorities are able to withhold
information relating to investigations where its release would or would be
likely to, have an adverse effect upon other investigations or the
prosecution of offenders.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10231-freedom-of-information-requests-re-madeleine-mccann-the-cost-of-operation-grange-request-refused

But it is this sort of thing I was describing in my reply to Joyce above.

That the whole raison d'etre of the reopening of the Portuguese operation was to aid the Met. In this case being able to avoid answering the FOI request by citing the other investigation.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 05.10.14 13:32

I understand where you are coming from Dee Coy,but I don't suppose we will know until a report is released or arrest are made,I try to keep an open mind but then read about the investigation from SY into the Alice gross case,I know OG is a separate case but its still SY.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 05.10.14 13:39

I know, and it's only my pessimistic opinion. I hope desperately that the PJ are beavering away for justice, not only for Madeleine, but also for their country and ex-colleague.

What do you mean by the SY investigation into Alice Gross? Are there parallels?
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by Guest on 05.10.14 13:46

Dee Coy wrote:

What do you mean by the SY investigation into Alice Gross? Are there parallels?
No,its just that there is criticism of them in that case then why just because OG is separate should anything better be expected.


Dee Coy wrote:I hope desperately that the PJ are beavering away for justice, not only for Madeleine, but also for their country and ex-colleague.

Its often said of the police in this country they look after their own,let us hope its the same in Portugal.
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Re: Justice or a Whitewash? - 2

Post by HelenMeg on 05.10.14 13:53

WMD wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:

What do you mean by the SY investigation into Alice Gross? Are there parallels?
No,its just that there is criticism of them in that case then why just because OG is separate should anything better be expected.


Dee Coy wrote:I hope desperately that the PJ are beavering away for justice, not only for Madeleine, but also for their country and ex-colleague.

Its often said of the police in this country they look after their own,let us hope its the same in Portugal.
What evidence or signs do we have that the PJ are beavering away?
I understand they do not use the media for silly games as do OG SY but there seems very little sign of any activity from PJ. Hope I'm completely wrong as at least they
are unbiased and objective

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