CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

sami wrote:

admin wrote:

lj wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Read it and Weep

by Dr Martin Roberts

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OMG that photo from Andy!! I haven't read a word yet, but you all have to go there a take a look at the photo. I think it says all.

Do you mean this one?

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That's his revelation moment.  Even he is amazed he is about to say bundle man is no more.

riskybuisness wrote:working on an old view:- the simplest answer is often the correct one.

Have any of you just considered the possibility that Madeleine [sp.] just walked out then something happened to her...

Extremely unlikley on any view - and Drs Kate and Gerry McCann firmly ruled it out, so utterly sure were they - 'immediately' - that Madeleine had been abducted, and the shutters jemmied open, etc. etc.

Exactly the same thing has been suggested by those writing about Ben Needham, another case by the way where there is, in reality, zero evidence of abduction

I am open minded in this case as I have no idea what actually took place, however, I do think that Gerry and Kate should be charged with other offences while the investigation continues - the 1st of which should be the neglect or abandonment of their children - they have no alibi and not enough smoke and mirrors to get out of that one.

That has already been tried once - by myself. On 10 November 2007, I applied for a summons to Leicestershire and Rutland Magistrates Court (LRMC) on the grounds that Drs Kate and Gerry McCann had admitted - in lengthy newspapers and elsewhere - to leaving three children under 4 on their own for significant periods six evenings in a row. I applied for the summons under the Children and Young Persons Act 1933, which covers cases of neglect of this kind. I made this application in the home area of the McCanns because, under the Hague Convention 1998, such cases - where the alleged neglect has occurred abroad -  must be pursued in the country where the parents are normally resident.

The Chairman of LRMC and its Chief Clerk immediately sought the advice of the Attorney-General, who swiftly advised the Magistrates Court that my application should be refused on the sole ground that I 'had not established beyond doubt that the court had jurisdiction to grant the summons'. And that was that. It is now effectively too late for the McCanns to be charged with an offence of child neglect, either in Portugal, or the U.K.  I think a copy of the application I made - and the response I got from LRMC - are out on the internet somewhere.

endgame wrote:In all the furore over the Smith sighting and the possibility that this may in fact be GM, I cannot conceive of a rational scenario that would actually place him there at 10 0'clock. Not that the answer needs to be rational of course.

Assuming that Madeleine suffered an accident sometime on the evening of May 3 [or earlier] and a fake abduction plan was hatched [the most commonly presented scenario] why would that plan involve GM wandering the streets of PdL with a dead child open to recognition at any time and at the very moment when he most needed to be seen at and around 5A? Even accepting that McCann timings and restaurant staff timings vary, I cannot get my head around why he would be doing this at that particular time. The other issue is fitting this into absolutely verifiable sightings of GM at the Ocean Club. If he was actually on his way to dispose of or hide Madeleine how long would that take him and is it conceivable that he would accomplish all this and get back within a timescale when he is absolutely known to be at OC?

I suppose you could argue that the "accident" happened much later and he was just getting out of there in a blind panic or that he was deliberately trying to create a dummy sighting [seems unlikely/ far too risky]. So given all his other options why would he have been there at that precise time?

The next question would be how, as some suggest, if he was about the process of disposal does this  fit in with the cadaver odour in the car?

I can actually find no reasonable explanation for anyone - GM, planned abductor, burglar, whatever -  to be carting Madeleine around a mile away from the OC at this time.

Anyone help?


the only explanation I can think of is  that she wondered out of the apartment and was found near to where the person was carrying her.  But the next thing I am waiting for is for the story to be retold yet again and the mccans and co forgot that near the start of the search they took the twins with them to search and gerry was carring one down that rd.   

candyfloss wrote:Star has the same only rather smaller

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Woofer wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

MoonGoddess wrote:Smith sighting man wasn't just heading towards the beach..... he was heading towards the Church

That's a very interesting observation.

Yes - that is interesting - must go and look at maps again.

Suspicions were raised because of the behaviour of the people who rented the £1million villa and because video cameras were reportedly seen there along with pictures of children on a wall, the Sunday Express has learned.



One elderly British resident told us both she and a friend, a retired British woman detective, went to Portuguese police about a couple who rented the villa, which has its own swimming pool.
The resident told us: “I used to meet up with the retired detective to walk our dogs down by the seafront. Both of us became concerned about a couple aged about 30 who rented the villa.

“What struck us was that they drove a very tatty, British-registered small red saloon car. It was one those vehicles you would normally see on a gypsy camp, not going in and out of a very expensive villa.

“We only saw them coming and going in the car and not walking about, which is odd given the location of the villa. We both got the impression they were trying to keep a low profile.’’

Another source said that after Maddie disappeared, search teams combed the seafront, where luxury villas stand next to large areas of barren land.

Anglican priest Paul Luckman, owner and publisher of Portugal News, said: “The location and description of that villa mentioned by your source fits the one that a searcher told me about.

“The searcher told me the villa was empty and somehow they got inside some weeks after Madeleine disappeared.
“The search dog handler said the villa had a room with a kind of amateur studio with video equipment and cameras with children’s toys and pictures of children on the wall.



“He felt it was something to do with paedophiles. He told the police and they seemed to know something about it, but we don’t think they took it any further.”
The Sunday Express took him to the villa and he confirmed that it fits the description and location of the one he was told about.
Although we know where it is, we are not naming the villa for legal reasons as we have been unable to locate the owner.
The British woman resident said: “I know the owner was contacted after we raised our concerns with the police.
"The person was angry because she said she did not know the people who rented it and was annoyed about being contacted by detectives.
"We heard nothing more about it. The day after Maddie disappeared the couple moved out and we didn’t see them again.
“There was an older woman in a very expensive car who visited them during their stay.”

Mélusine wrote:Russiandoll,

why do I think this is a whitewash?

Because I believe that if it was genuine, the police would not act like this -  Crimewatch programme, weird e-fits, a witness suddenly falls from the sky after 6 years, parents and Tapas are not suspects etc...

There was a case of missing 8 years old girl 3 years ago in the country where I come from... the way the police was acting, the information they gave, the appeals on TV ... everything was totally different to this.

I can't express my reasons better than it has already been done in this - already mentioned - article Read it and Weep by Dr. M. Roberts.

russiandoll wrote:
 Thank you for your reply and I understand it to a point, but what could be the reason for such an elaborate cover up ? This is what baffles me,

 eta  this is not a typical missing child case so maybe extraordinary measures are needed to solve it ?

Lance De Boils wrote:

Woofer wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

MoonGoddess wrote:Smith sighting man wasn't just heading towards the beach..... he was heading towards the Church

That's a very interesting observation.

Yes - that is interesting - must go and look at maps again.

Do you remember this article, too? I wonder where exactly this villa was? Did anyone ever figure it out?

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Suspicions were raised because of the behaviour of the people who rented the £1million villa and because video cameras were reportedly seen there along with pictures of children on a wall, the Sunday Express has learned.



One elderly British resident told us both she and a friend, a retired British woman detective, went to Portuguese police about a couple who rented the villa, which has its own swimming pool.
The resident told us: “I used to meet up with the retired detective to walk our dogs down by the seafront. Both of us became concerned about a couple aged about 30 who rented the villa.

“What struck us was that they drove a very tatty, British-registered small red saloon car. It was one those vehicles you would normally see on a gypsy camp, not going in and out of a very expensive villa.

“We only saw them coming and going in the car and not walking about, which is odd given the location of the villa. We both got the impression they were trying to keep a low profile.’’

Another source said that after Maddie disappeared, search teams combed the seafront, where luxury villas stand next to large areas of barren land.

Anglican priest Paul Luckman, owner and publisher of Portugal News, said: “The location and description of that villa mentioned by your source fits the one that a searcher told me about.

“The searcher told me the villa was empty and somehow they got inside some weeks after Madeleine disappeared.
“The search dog handler said the villa had a room with a kind of amateur studio with video equipment and cameras with children’s toys and pictures of children on the wall.



“He felt it was something to do with paedophiles. He told the police and they seemed to know something about it, but we don’t think they took it any further.”
The Sunday Express took him to the villa and he confirmed that it fits the description and location of the one he was told about.
Although we know where it is, we are not naming the villa for legal reasons as we have been unable to locate the owner.
The British woman resident said: “I know the owner was contacted after we raised our concerns with the police.
"The person was angry because she said she did not know the people who rented it and was annoyed about being contacted by detectives.
"We heard nothing more about it. The day after Maddie disappeared the couple moved out and we didn’t see them again.
“There was an older woman in a very expensive car who visited them during their stay.”

riskybuisness wrote:

endgame wrote:In all the furore over the Smith sighting and the possibility that this may in fact be GM, I cannot conceive of a rational scenario that would actually place him there at 10 0'clock. Not that the answer needs to be rational of course.

Assuming that Madeleine suffered an accident sometime on the evening of May 3 [or earlier] and a fake abduction plan was hatched [the most commonly presented scenario] why would that plan involve GM wandering the streets of PdL with a dead child open to recognition at any time and at the very moment when he most needed to be seen at and around 5A? Even accepting that McCann timings and restaurant staff timings vary, I cannot get my head around why he would be doing this at that particular time. The other issue is fitting this into absolutely verifiable sightings of GM at the Ocean Club. If he was actually on his way to dispose of or hide Madeleine how long would that take him and is it conceivable that he would accomplish all this and get back within a timescale when he is absolutely known to be at OC?

I suppose you could argue that the "accident" happened much later and he was just getting out of there in a blind panic or that he was deliberately trying to create a dummy sighting [seems unlikely/ far too risky]. So given all his other options why would he have been there at that precise time?

The next question would be how, as some suggest, if he was about the process of disposal does this  fit in with the cadaver odour in the car?

I can actually find no reasonable explanation for anyone - GM, planned abductor, burglar, whatever -  to be carting Madeleine around a mile away from the OC at this time.

Anyone help?


the only explanation I can think of is  that she wondered out of the apartment and was found near to where the person was carrying her.  But the next thing I am waiting for is for the story to be retold yet again and the mccans and co forgot that near the start of the search they took the twins with them to search and gerry was carring one down that rd.   

russiandoll wrote:Was I seeing things, or in the tapas meal recon. were the metal shutters on patio door DOWN ?

 Meant to post this after show....lots going on so got distracted. will post the yotube clip

MoonGoddess wrote:

russiandoll wrote:Was I seeing things, or in the tapas meal recon. were the metal shutters on patio door DOWN ?

 Meant to post this after show....lots going on so got distracted. will post the yotube clip

I think? I also noticed the abductor leaving through the door? going to watch it again on 'catchup' later.

russiandoll wrote:Cherry Blossom...CW did go out after the McCann people gave evidence at the libel trial.. do you mean in case G and K are allowed to speak?

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The BBC I-player is no longer available so here's a YouTube link.

Angelique wrote:MoonGoddess

"It would be good to know where that Villa was"

Maybe it was this one referred to in this link.

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I remember seeing a picture of GA standing in front of a particular Villa but I can't now find the picture. It could be the one because it is described as being in the same vicinity.

ShuBob wrote:

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The BBC I-player is no longer available so here's a YouTube link.

I was wondering this yesterday when I saw a message on Twitter from the BBC that "for legal reasons" the Crimewatch special was only available on iPlayer for 24 hours. Has that always been the case with Crimewatch i.e. it's only available for 24 hours after it airs?

tigger wrote:Well, the reconstruction was made 6 months ago. 

When we saw them in May looking for the first time in six years  truly distressed - was that because they'd been told that Gerry's. solid gold alibi had been ditched ?

Pennypennypenny wrote:I don't think the e fits look anything like Gerry.

russiandoll wrote:

Mélusine wrote:Russiandoll,

why do I think this is a whitewash?

Because I believe that if it was genuine, the police would not act like this -  Crimewatch programme, weird e-fits, a witness suddenly falls from the sky after 6 years, parents and Tapas are not suspects etc...

There was a case of missing 8 years old girl 3 years ago in the country where I come from... the way the police was acting, the information they gave, the appeals on TV ... everything was totally different to this.

I can't express my reasons better than it has already been done in this - already mentioned - article Read it and Weep by Dr. M. Roberts.

 Thank you for your reply and I understand it to a point, but what could be the reason for such an elaborate cover up ? This is what baffles me,

 eta  this is not a typical missing child case so maybe extraordinary measures are needed to solve it ?