CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

tiny wrote:

dontbelieveaword wrote:

tiny wrote:

dontbelieveaword wrote:

russiandoll wrote:

tiny wrote:where was Gerry when Martin Smith saw this man with child at 10 0/c, are there any independant witness,s(not the tapas friends)

 this is just the info SY want imo

So why haven't they outright asked for it?

yes I wonder why they haven't,funny that

unfortunately all it proves to me is that the parents are not on SY's radar...I can't understand how SY can take the Smith sighting so seriously yet not take Smith's follow up after he'd seen GM coming down the plane steps and that he was 60-80% convinced it was GM. How can SY only run with half the story / statement?

now you know why I lean to a whitewash,what is needed here is for Martin Smith to stand tall and say he was 80% sure it was Gerry,and not let sy cut him short

Hi Tiny, I'm tending to think that Redwood needs more to secure a prosecution (as guided by CPS) exactly as Russiandoll has explained and hence his sortees to germany, netherlands and ireland, countries where most of the potential witnesses could be. IMO

am leaning to keep it simple, eliminate all the impossibilities Tanner for example

 then what is left, no matter how improbable  will be the truth.

russiandoll wrote:

tiny wrote:where was Gerry when Martin Smith saw this man with child at 10 0/c, are there any independant witness,s(not the tapas friends)

 this is just the info SY want imo

 According to the book and the statements, Gerry was at the table and assisted Kate in having another  look round 5a. He then tried the shutters from outside and according to Kate was roaring like a bull. 
Just the sort of thing in an emergency....

Apart from the roaring and the curious supplication for the GNR I don't believe it. 

I think he was on his way back, hurriedly changed his trousers and did none of the bleeding obvious like looking in the immediate vicinity for Maddie or phoning the police.

tiredofthebs wrote:I suppose the positive thing is that these 1000 callers are actually going to have their information reach the police. Unlike the hundreds or thousands of people who were being directed to the McCanns website or their private investigators.

Could someone, who doesn't believe the police are involved in this cover up, explain why the Leicestershire Police website was directing people to the McCann's own website for years?

caller 'it looks like Gerry McCann'

LP: Stuart Prior 'fuck off!'

caller 'it looks like Gerry McCann'

SY: BHH 'fcuk off!'

PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB 55s
Someone please tell me what evidence shows "hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction." Do those "hallmarks" also show a botched robbery? #McCann

Ok, I am new here. I watched the Amarel documentary a couple of days leading up to the latest Promo Stunt of the McCann's. Not once did they mention that there was no DNA evidence of anyone else in the apartment apart from the McCann's. The Blood found in the apartment and hire car of the McCann's wasn't mentioned either. 

The whole Crimewatch thing is PERVERTING THE COURSE OF JUSTICE. 

We all know who that maddie wasn't abducted.

Poe wrote:

russiandoll wrote:

dontbelieveaword wrote:

tiny wrote:

dontbelieveaword wrote:

russiandoll wrote:

tiny wrote:where was Gerry when Martin Smith saw this man with child at 10 0/c, are there any independant witness,s(not the tapas friends)

 this is just the info SY want imo

So why haven't they outright asked for it?

yes I wonder why they haven't,funny that

unfortunately all it proves to me is that the parents are not on SY's radar...I can't understand how SY can take the Smith sighting so seriously yet not take Smith's follow up after he'd seen GM coming down the plane steps and that he was 60-80% convinced it was GM. How can SY only run with half the story / statement?

  Do you believe SY would tell the world on CW who was in their sights?

eta I am looking at what was omitted rather than what was included !
  AR said nothing, we don't know what they are doing.

I've lost count of the number of times the police have appealed for "suspects" when the actual suspect is sat feet away. 

I don't understand why anyone would think that the police are capable of lying to produce a whitewash but have to tell the absolute truth during an investigation.

If SY are doing this to trick the mccanns, and they've known all along, can you imagine the publics anger? When they find out Police made everyone search for men who didn't EXIST!

ChillyHeat wrote:

ChillyHeat wrote:Newcomers to this case will wonder why the McCanns are not outspoken about the things in reconstructions that don't link with the given evidence....What I mean is, if it was me on the sofa and Kirsty came to interview me live, I would halt her and say "Kirsty, the door was indicated in your clip as being hinged on the left, when it should have been...." etc etc...
Perhaps this is why they were live in the studio...Perhaps a trap has been set for these to fall into. Once newcomers read the evidence, they will see the charade this is...

Surely if they were innocent they would be asking questions such as, why have you left out important names in this reconstruction (ie Paynes). I would not have allowed this to be aired if it was my child missing. I believe SY are giving them a false sense of protection...The McCanns should be astounded how innacurate that recon was....But we know why they are not

Precisely what I think. I would definitely pointed out to such things had I been them... live in the studio.

Although I would be really happy if this had been a trap for The McCanns, I think it's a whitewash. If SY really was taking it seriously, why then didn't they go and ask the Smith family? Why then didn't they interview again all the Tapas "I don't know how many" and The McCanns? It doesn't make sense.

Sorry for my English.

tigger wrote:

russiandoll wrote:

tiny wrote:where was Gerry when Martin Smith saw this man with child at 10 0/c, are there any independant witness,s(not the tapas friends)

 this is just the info SY want imo

 According to the book and the statements, Gerry was at the table and assisted Kate in having another  look round 5a. He then tried the shutters from outside and according to Kate was roaring like a bull. 
Just the sort of thing in an emergency....

Apart from the roaring and the curious supplication for the GNR I don't believe it. 

I think he was on his way back, hurriedly changed his trousers and did none of the bleeding obvious like looking in the immediate vicinity for Maddie or phoning the police.

 yes all those statements about where Gerry was came from the tapas mob...SY need independent witnesses, bar staff, other tourists,

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I'm hoping that one of our Portuguese speakers will tell us what this is about.

I can't watch the video now, I'll see it tonight and let you know what he says, but the description of the video says:
" Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector author of the book 'Maddie - The Truth of the Lie', says the new facts in the case are a "publicity stunt" from the parents of the missing girl."

candyfloss wrote:PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB  55s  
Someone please tell me what evidence shows "hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction." Do those "hallmarks" also show a botched robbery? #McCann

 someone tell Pat that was not what Redwood said....she has missed out ON ONE READING OF THE EVIDENCE,
 
Pat said the other day if Smith ignored its a whitewash. His sighting is all SY are focusing on imo and she still thinks a whitewash!

russiandoll wrote:Redwood is going to Ireland . I don't think he was being dishonest when he said he wanted to work with Portugal and they sure wont cover the Mcs backsides.

imo this is all about lining up the pieces on the chessboard. it is strategy with a long term goal imo.

I have heard that SY detectives have already been to Ireland.

Does anyone know what the 'pattern' on the 'possible' pyjamas (Redwood) the child carrying 'walkingman' was?

Shrike wrote:Hi Tiny, I'm tending to think that Redwood needs more to secure a prosecution (as guided by CPS) exactly as Russiandoll has explained and hence his sortees to germany, netherlands and ireland, countries where most of the potential witnesses could be. IMO

A prosecution for what exactly? There doesn't appear to me to be any offence that is within the jurisdiction of either England and Wales or Scotland

russiandoll wrote:

candyfloss wrote:PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB  55s  
Someone please tell me what evidence shows "hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction." Do those "hallmarks" also show a botched robbery? #McCann

 someone tell Pat that was not what Redwood said....she has missed out ON ONE READING OF THE EVIDENCE,
 
Pat said the other day if Smith ignored its a whitewash. His sighting is all SY are focusing on imo and she still thinks a whitewash!

If pat said the other day that if Smith is ignored its a whitewash, I'm afraid she's right.
Because guess what smith WAS ignored. 

Papers are saying he saw madeleine in pyjamas barefoot etc. they totally ignored that he said a girl being carried, he didn't mention Tanners barefoot pyjama girl. He is now the Tanner story.

jeanmonroe wrote:Does anyone know what the 'pattern' on the 'possible' pyjamas (Redwood) the child carrying 'walkingman' was?

Whatever pattern you want them to be, ask JT  

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I've downloaded this Mr Amaral talking.

He looks healthy.

Unfortunately it's in Portuguese so i don't have a clue what he is saying.

HELPP!

Can one of our Portuguese friends 'translate' please.

Pretty please.

Obrigado - Obrigada.

    

quote   " Papers are saying he saw madeleine in pyjamas barefoot etc. they totally ignored that he said a girl being carried, he didn't mention Tanners barefoot pyjama girl. He is now the Tanner story.  " 

 I heard Redwood and media saying a dark haired white man was seen carrying a child down towards the beach.

 And a man carrying a child was shown in CW.

 I am very tired and maybe not understanding you properly, sorry if so.

AndyB wrote:

Shrike wrote:Hi Tiny, I'm tending to think that Redwood needs more to secure a prosecution (as guided by CPS) exactly as Russiandoll has explained and hence his sortees to germany, netherlands and ireland, countries where most of the potential witnesses could be. IMO

A prosecution for what exactly? There doesn't appear to me to be any offence that is within the jurisdiction of either England and Wales or Scotland

Good question Andy, so why is everybody on here discussing arresting certain persons here in the UK if they cannot be prosecuted here? Maybe for fraud in the future? Or, for extradition and prosecution elsewhere? Just wondering why the CPS were there back in May. I'm no expert in criminal law, maybe somebody who is can explain the options?

melusine    . If SY really was taking it seriously, why then didn't they go and ask the Smith family? Why then didn't they interview again all the Tapas "I don't know how many" and The McCanns? It doesn't make sense. 
 

how do we know they haven't?

Sorry if this has been posted, reading so much here I might have forgotten.......


Madeleine McCann Crimewatch appeal: Was kidnapper still in Maddie's room when mum Kate McCann checked on her?

  15 Oct 2013 06:01      

The mother revealed she heard a door "slam shut" shortly before she found her daughter was missing, and saw curtains moving at an open window


Kate McCann may have been just seconds away from coming face to face with the man who kidnapped her daughter Madeleine, detectives revealed yesterday.

The anguished mum found the three-year-old had disappeared from the family’s holiday apartment in Portugal at 10pm – around the time a new suspect was seen carrying a blonde child towards the beach.

In an interview shown on BBC’s Crimewatch last night, along with a detailed reconstruction, Kate told how she heard a door slam when she went to check on her children.

She also felt curtains in the room “whoosh” and noticed an open window, raising the possibility she could have missed the abductor by moments.




More on link.


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The Metropolitan Police team refuses to be critical of the previous inquiry in an effort to foster good relations with Portuguese police.
(unlike Mr and Mrs McCann re: ongoing libel case)
______________________
Six local officers based in Faro have been appointed to liaise with British police. But DCI Redwood hopes that ultimately the Portuguese investigation will be reopened.
______________________________________________________________
IF DCI Redwood did say he 'hopes the Portuguese investigation WILL be re-opened' then the McCanns will not be looking forward to THAT.
Because IF it was re-opened the PJ could and would immediately 're-arguido' them AND this time, their 'friends'

DCI Redwood on Sky news has just said: 'verbatim'
"We completely respect and acknowledge the differences in our system, erm, but, but of course our aspiration is to have the case re-opened so that we can work together with our Portuguese colleagues jointly to try to establish what happened to Madeleine McCann"
_______________________
MR and Mrs McCann should be absolutely delighted to hear SY and Mr Redwood saying this. That the case should be re-opened with the PJ/SY working in tandem to establish what happened to their daughter shouldn't they?
I don't know if they have offered all, or indeed any, of their private Ltd Company 'fund' money towards the cost of a 're-opening' of the case in Portugal with the PJ.
Their 'donators' will be delighted, even ecstatic, if their 'donations' were to be used in this way, wouldn't they?
"re-open the case? Yes please"
They could hardly be otherwise, what with one of SY 'elite' detectives heading up an investigation jointly with a PJ top detective.
I am pretty certain that some of the UK taxpayers unlimited monetary resources that are funding the present SY 'investigation' could be given to the PJ to 're-open/ unshelve' the case.
The case could be 'funded' and re-opened by the PJ by means of a EU/UK Grant, couldn't it?
The McCanns, and their friends, could hardly 'protest' about being re-interviewed jointly by the PJ/SY, could they?
Given that THEY have said they eagerly want the PJ to 're-open' the case!
And if they did 'protest' and refuse to return to Portugal, if required, with all their holidaying 'friends' what would DCI Redwood and SY make of THAT?
Think it will happen?
No? me neither.

russiandoll wrote:melusine    . If SY really was taking it seriously, why then didn't they go and ask the Smith family? Why then didn't they interview again all the Tapas "I don't know how many" and The McCanns? It doesn't make sense. 
 

how do we know they haven't?

You are right - we don't know. But if they have, then why all this circus with Crimewatch? Would it really be still necessary? Presented in such a way?

I admit I don't know and I'm talking just about my feelings.

Madeleine McCann Crimewatch appeal: Was kidnapper still in Maddie's room when mum Kate McCann checked on her?
______________________________________________

Er, NO!

Kate 'searched' the apartment for Madeleine before leaving the twins ALONE, again, in the apartment, while she went back to the tapas restaurant, out of sight, 100 metres away to raise the 'alarm'.

Another 'Myth' busted?

Prehensile wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:

"Kate and Gerry McCann will travel to Holland today and Germany tomorrow because the resort they were staying in is particularly popular with people from those countries and the suspect is believed to have a German or a Scandinavian accent."  



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I'm just wondering... for a non-English-speaking person, on hearing a Brit with a strong Glaswegian accent, might it be mistaken for another European accent?

Good observation LDB. I remember years ago my parents encouraging me to take German at school because of the way us Scots pronounce similarly to the German language.

Absolutely bang on , on several holidays to Spanish  and Portuguese territories I have been mistaken for Dutch and German due to my being a Weegie.

The McCanns have been done up like a kipper but the only 'revelation' which occurred last night is that it's taken the Met's finest more than 2 years to establish what the PJ established within little more than 2 weeks, if not 2 days. :angryred: 

Fwiw, in the pre-recorded chat with Kirsty, it seemed to me that KM was on some medication or other.  As her voice sounded a little hoarse, perhaps she'd necked some benylin before her appearance?

I understand the concept of stripping back and eliminating so that what your are left with must be the truth.
What I don't understand is adding pieces of misinformation, such as the McCanns were "cleared" and using the abduction word.
 As we saw in TB's case, Lord Justice Tugendhat took a dim view of a barrister using the "abduction" word in his courtroom and asked what evidence she had to support this claim. The barrister was only able to reply that her clients had told her it was an abduction; a response which was not well received in a court of law. And neither should it have been acceptable on Crimewatch where we were urged, first by Kirsty Young to "cast your preconceptions aside" - followed by AR who also wanted "speculation" cast aside.
 Within the court of Lord Justice Tughendhat, the misuse of the word abduction fell precisely into the pre-conception/speculation category that was unacceptable under law. It should be no different for AR who is seeking to rewind time to point zero for a fresh understanding of events. If you want facts from the public, you are duty bound NOT to be hanging labels like this on the case before you start.

russiandoll wrote:quote   " Papers are saying he saw madeleine in pyjamas barefoot etc. they totally ignored that he said a girl being carried, he didn't mention Tanners barefoot pyjama girl. He is now the Tanner story.  " 

 I heard Redwood and media saying a dark haired white man was seen carrying a child down towards the beach.

 And a man carrying a child was shown in CW.

 I am very tired and maybe not understanding you properly, sorry if so.

No worries. 

We understand. Your hard work is much appreciated, thank you.

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" That description came from an Irish family who were also holidaying in the Praia da Luz resort in Portugal when Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007."

AndyB wrote:

Shrike wrote:Hi Tiny, I'm tending to think that Redwood needs more to secure a prosecution (as guided by CPS) exactly as Russiandoll has explained and hence his sortees to germany, netherlands and ireland, countries where most of the potential witnesses could be. IMO

A prosecution for what exactly? There doesn't appear to me to be any offence that is within the jurisdiction of either England and Wales or Scotland

That confuses me. If an offense is committed abroad, how can anyone be prosecuted here? Surely the police in the UK would have to ask Portugal to press charges.

Am working on transcript and this is what Redwood says at 30.42 live on the Crimewatch programme
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"Redwood:           Yes, on the afternoon that Madeleine disappeared between 3.30 and 5.30 there were 4 charity collector events where 2 men went to residential apartments in streets very close to her apartment. And certainly on one of those events at 4 pm there’s an e-fit that hte public can look at. A man with black hair.

Kirsty:                   Right

Redwood:           Erm that we really need to understand more about and identify who this person is."

Can anyone please double-check if I'm hearing this right?

Freudian slip?