SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Me wrote:

sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What does that mean?

"To me, this is all about logic. If you start with everything you can think of, and then eliminate those that are impossible, you are well on your way to a solution.

That’s the first stage of solving any mystery, whether it’s a murder mystery in a book (or TV, or movie, or…) or something you expected to work, but didn’t. You have to eliminate all the things that it couldn’t possibly be, or you will have too many distractions.

Once we clear out all the distractions, we can focus on what remains. Sometimes what is left is easy to believe, other times it can seem highly improbable. However, with the impossible eliminated, what remains are the only possible solutions. And one of them must be the truth".
Hence, this is how the law works, so don't lose heart. Just remember how muddied the waters have become over the Madeleine mystery. Intentionally caused, in my opinion, hence the fund to employ private detectives, to create a very tangled web We are on the right track.

Until such time as the Yard brings clear evidence that someone else "did it", i am working on the assumption that they are removing all other possibilities before focusing on the Tapas mob.

It would seem contrary to normal investigations of this kind, where you work from the family first and then outwards, but given the high profile nature of this case it may have been decided that is the best tactic at the beginning of the Yard's investigation to work from the outwards in.

The problems SY has, is, there have been "private investigators" who have presented information as to what happened to Madeleine McCann. SY can't ignore this information, even if they think is absolute tosh, so it has to be investigated to be eliminated. This is why they are looking at ALL the evidence. Remember what SY is working with; The Portuguese information, the UK police information, AND the PRIVATE DETECTIVES' information. So, until they show the world that what the private detectives "found" is utter garbage, we will have to sit tight and just wait.

PeterMac wrote:

Me wrote:
It would seem contrary to normal investigations of this kind, where you work from the family first and then outwards, but given the high profile nature of this case it may have been decided that is the best tactic at the beginning of the Yard's investigation to work from the outwards in.

The PJ did work from the family outwards, and came to the conclusions they did.
Only the intervention of several other factors has forced Grange to do it the other way round, since they know that no one inside the immediate group is suddenly going to start telling the truth.
They didn't when they were still maintaining that a young child's life was at risk, so they are unlikely to now.

Agreed, and that was kind of my point. The Yard can't run the investigation the same way the PJ did for fear of the same kind of media treatment the PJ received. However that doesn't change the fact that in any "normal" case the family and friends would be looked at first.

Also once these random paedo leads have been exhausted they will still have the same problem, that is getting someone within the group to talk. I suppose they could be working on the basis that when (if) they do bring them in and show them that all their PI "leads" are worthless it will increase the pressure on one within the group to talk.

I still maintain though that a seasoned SY interrogator, sorry investigator, in a room with Jane Tanner could help move this case forward far faster.

My hope is that all these leads are chased down, proven to be worthless and then the Tapas mob are all brought in seperately but at the same time and one is played off against another until the truth starts coming out.

And, to add, whilst the point has been made that if someone is brought in and charged with the abduction, then a good defence lawyer could drive a coach and horses through the inaccuracies and lies of the Tapas group's statements to provide more than reasonable doubt, perhaps the investigation now of these PI leads is being done to prevent the same happening if any of the Tapas mob are ever hauled into a court.

That is to investigate and eliminate the reasonable doubt the Tapas lot could use as a defence in a court case involving any of them.

Me wrote:

PeterMac wrote:

Me wrote:
It would seem contrary to normal investigations of this kind, where you work from the family first and then outwards, but given the high profile nature of this case it may have been decided that is the best tactic at the beginning of the Yard's investigation to work from the outwards in.

The PJ did work from the family outwards, and came to the conclusions they did.
Only the intervention of several other factors has forced Grange to do it the other way round, since they know that no one inside the immediate group is suddenly going to start telling the truth.
They didn't when they were still maintaining that a young child's life was at risk, so they are unlikely to now.

Agreed, and that was kind of my point. The Yard can't run the investigation the same way the PJ did for fear of the same kind of media treatment the PJ received. However that doesn't change the fact that in any "normal" case the family and friends would be looked at first.

Also once these random paedo leads have been exhausted they will still have the same problem, that is getting someone within the group to talk. I suppose they could be working on the basis that when (if) they do bring them in and show them that all their PI "leads" are worthless it will increase the pressure on one within the group to talk.

I still maintain though that a seasoned SY interrogator, sorry investigator, in a room with Jane Tanner could help move this case forward far faster.

My hope is that all these leads are chased down, proven to be worthless and then the Tapas mob are all brought in seperately but at the same time and one is played off against another until the truth starts coming out.

No one needs to talk. Once all the possibilities AND the impossibilities have been eliminated, then they can go after those responsible, whoever THEY are.
Just imagine if, as so many on here are saying, the T9 were brought to court. As we know, they have lied through their teeth, BUT, without eliminating the "sightings" and the private detective information, for example, the case would collapse. Even though the T9 have lied, with other evidence brought in to disrupt the trail - and it would brought in -  the whole case would be an absolute waste of time.

I will repeat again, this case is HUGE. Almost from the start, the TEAM put the wheels of confusion and deception into motion. We know that this case has crossed many borders, hence SY's claim they are "working in a few countries". This case isn't simply a case of "they did it, just arrest them". It could take years for this to come to court, but I am cautiously confident that by giving SY the support and space to carry out their complicated work, justice WILL be served

PeterMac wrote:

Me wrote:
It would seem contrary to normal investigations of this kind, where you work from the family first and then outwards, but given the high profile nature of this case it may have been decided that is the best tactic at the beginning of the Yard's investigation to work from the outwards in.

The PJ did work from the family outwards, and came to the conclusions they did.
Only the intervention of several other factors has forced Grange to do it the other way round, since they know that no one inside the immediate group is suddenly going to start telling the truth.
They didn't when they were still maintaining that a young child's life was at risk, so they are unlikely to now.

Quite.
It's only logical that if working from inwards to outwards got no where, then the process has to be reversed.

The MET did not say that the 38 "people of interest" (not abductors and not suspects) would lead to bringing home a "live' Maddie, despite the claim she may well be alive.

They didn't say in any shape or form that they're closer to netting Maddie snatcher, rescuing Maddie, and bringing her home.
They could have said that - but they didn't - they said they are getting to the bottom of "what happened to her"!

The word "snatcher" "abductor" "paedo" etc. hasnt been used by the Police and Press since Op Grange been on the job.
So if Maddie is ALIVE, who has her? No one has mentioned anything about bringing her home!

Seemingly the Police had narrowed 195 fresh leads down to 38, now 37....so, they are closer to what when you think about it?

I'll nick one of the sentences appearing earlier "once we clear all the distractions, we can focus on what remains" .
I think this is a valid question "when the 38 distractions are cleared, what remains to be focused on?

Isn't is obvious?

PeterMac wrote:

Me wrote:
It would seem contrary to normal investigations of this kind, where you work from the family first and then outwards, but given the high profile nature of this case it may have been decided that is the best tactic at the beginning of the Yard's investigation to work from the outwards in.

The PJ did work from the family outwards, and came to the conclusions they did.
Only the intervention of several other factors has forced Grange to do it the other way round, since they know that no one inside the immediate group is suddenly going to start telling the truth.
They didn't when they were still maintaining that a young child's life was at risk, so they are unlikely to now.

Unfortunately, the PJ were forced to work exclusively on the abduction theory for about the first 3 months and for this reason they got nowhere. When Mark Harrison came and made his report stating that Madeleine was most probably dead, the investigation took another turn and they began to look more closely at the parents. Then came Eddie and Keela with Martin Grimes and we know the rest of the story.....

sallypelt wrote:

Pershing36 wrote:

Finn wrote:

sallypelt wrote:

Seek truth wrote:

lj wrote:No, the SY has after all this time and money nothing, nop, nada. They know their 38 plus or minus is one big red herring. They continuously let it seem as if they do everything in their power to solve the case, especially as far as their cooperation with the PJ is concerned. Their ultimate goal is something like: we could have found him/them, but the PJ did not want to solve the case.

It is a repeat of 2007: when the Brits refused to give any medical and financial information, keep the parents under suspicion updated of the investigation, screwed up the DNA evidence, lost some material in that process, sabotaged further interrogation of the tapas friends by  first not reacting, later declaring the International Letter of Request was not correct and so on and so forth.

Anyone who still believe SY is doing a proper investigation is rather naive imo. It's wagging the dog done by a LE group who has experience in screwing up investigations.

 YOU SAID IT ALL !!

 
Lets not forget SY have actually been involved since 2007.

Well, I have to question why some people are here, if all they are seeing is a "whitewash" from SY. I would like for you to explain, what is it you want, if you don't want the police to investigate? I am at a loss of what your motive is

I don't think it's a case of not wanting the police to investigate, sallypelt, I think it's a matter of not having confidence in the investigation.

 I for one am not going to accept the SY review if they just come up with some random sex offender with very loose evidence.

Think of it this way if it wound up tomorrow and they concluded Hewlett probably did it, would you be happy to leave it there?

Do you really think that THAT is going to happen?

I will ask the same question, again. What is it some people want? If the police are NOT going to do anything, then what is the point of being here?
I agree that we have to be careful, and not listen to everything we hear, but I understand enough about the law to know that if they  just wanted this to go away, they would have left things as they were.

Now, I am not going to say anything else on the subject in regards to a "whitewash". I've said my piece, and I will concentrate on what the likes of Russian doll and those who have an understanding of how the law works.

I am sorry this response got delayed a couple of times, so it refers to something way back in the thread. I considered not posting it at all, but yesterdays news that Portugal never got a letter of request made me decide to post it after all. So here it is:

Oh Sally, how silly and a little bit below the belt. So there is freedom of speech here as long as it goes along your line of thinking.

What I want is the same as most of us here: the truth, justice for Madeleine.
I do not believe that the current SY investigation will bring that. The current development of the SY saying that they have send a request for mutual judiciary assistance and Portugal flatout denying that is just one of the reasons. You'll find others in my posts. it is not like I want the police NOT to investigate: there has been an investigation by the Portuguese Police and justice system, the only ones that could legally investigate. If the PJ would find reason to reopen the case I would really be very happy with that. But even with all what SY has brought to them these past 2 years, they don't find enough evidence to reopen the case. They also found that the parents missed an opportunity to prove their innocence. So the parents are still were they were 4 years ago: no longer arguidos just because the case was shelved, but absolutely not what still is said "acquitted" or "absolved".

I want the truth, the real truth, not a concoct fairy tale about a dead pedophile. Now look what happened yesterday. So Andy says there was a letter of request submitted so we can continue to investigate in Portugal. Says Portugal "there was not". Strangely I believe the Portuguese over Andy. Now I might not know enough about the law, according to you, but I know some things about politics and diplomacy, and this is huge. Huge in a very negative way. This guy is lying through all the teeth he has, and doing in the mean time considerable damage to the country of Portugal and the ties the UK has with Portugal. The FO must be cringing, and all Brits should be crinching. Now why would he lie? This is not a lie like "he can't say that the McCanns are on the suspect list, but they'll get them in the end", this is willingly and knowingly attacking another country. And for what FGS? To keep that mediocre cunning couple out of trouble? Would you trust someone who is supposed to keep and enforce the law, but instead tramples it? And for what?

You asked "If the police are NOT going to do anything, then what is the point of being here?". First of all, I would police to investigate, but not a media and political driven force, but one that does have jurisdiction and has respect for the law, their own and of other countries. Until then I take the liberty of once in a while reading/posting here.
Feel free to skip my posts, I know I'll skip yours.

IMO unless you've got inside knowledge nobody knows 100% whether this is a whitewash or a genuine investigation.

There are pointers both ways and either way it is important that everybody is free to give their opinion and the fight for justice goes on.

I'm a bit of a fence sitter on this issue but I am leaning more towards whitewash.

As SY want something from the PJ and they can only try and get by it being an investigation that would explain a lot.

If it is a whitewash that to me indicates the darkest scenario.

sally66 wrote:IMO unless you've got inside knowledge nobody knows 100% whether this is a whitewash or a genuine investigation.

There are pointers both ways and either way it is important that everybody is free to give their opinion and the fight for justice goes on.

I'm a bit of a fence sitter on this issue but I am leaning more towards whitewash.

As SY want something from the PJ and they  can only try and get by it being an investigation that would explain a lot.

If it is a whitewash  that to me indicates the darkest scenario.

Hello Sally, I don't think it's being a fence sitter, to keep a circumspect eye on how things are developing.
We all obviously want justice, and absolutely not a cover up.
The problems emerge however when a 'desire' to believe in someone/something is in conflict with our observations and experiences.
PRISM has just been exposed by a courageous young man.
The USA, guilty of breach of its own 4th Amendment, guilty of intercepting private messages of European, International governments and private public citizens, instead of being reprimanded and exposed as 'guilty of a CRIME' is accusing the Whistleblower of being a criminal.
This is rank criminal hypocrisy and such a serious threat to the future 'justice' for mankind that people and nations are rising up against this tyrannical invasion and breach of justice.
The UK is a knowing participant to the above crimes.
From the Leveson Enquiry, our police have been exposed to have corruption and cover ups at the highest level.
Madeleine McCann's parents have had unlimited help and financial investment in their case, contrary to any other missing child case.
Even without paying any regard to the acclaimed 'high powered, political, government' involvement at the beginning of the McCann case (which is evident by looking at the names and political positions of those declaring their interest in the case);
Even without accepting Goncalo Amaral's word for it that such unprecedented interference occurred, making the investigation impossible for the Portuguese police,
we are asked to believe that our police are being pristine, honest and seeking justice, rather than acting on behalf of an embroiled government to bring about a 'disposal' of this problematic case.
Problematic, not because it is complex in itself, but because public acceptance of the story so far is not appeased.
This site is one of many, many voices failing to accept the 'story' as given.
With a back-drop of police corruption, government meddling, inconsistent statements of position between the Portuguese and the UK police authorities, a 'convenient disposal' of this thorny case is not entirely to be dismissed.
Whether we call it a possible 'whitewash' or whether we feel we should 'trust' in our topmost police authority and government leaders, has to be weighed up against the disconcerting facts that blight this investigation.
I do not have a theory, but I do watch developments and place them against the discovered behaviours of the political authorities which will cause my opinion to change.
This, to my mind, is a time when we must be more attentive than ever, a time for 'upping' the discussions and back-referrals of previously studied material. In as much as idle or groundless speculation should be avoided for the 'safety' of any 'possible' prosecution, it is certainly not a time for sitting back and trusting that the powers that be will deliver a good and just determination.

Hi Bobbin

I have no faith in our government at all whichever party is in, IMO 99% of them are compromised are are ruled by others.

I am also aware that the MET's track record is shocking and the McCanns have had unprecedented help.
Don't know if I am just living in hope that there are some decent people behind the scenes at SY who are prepared to go out on a limb, not that it did Lenny Harper any good.

PeterMac wrote:How very sad. That presumedly brings the number of suspects down to 37.
And Scotland Yard knew about it all along.
But then the Swiss Police are just Kirschwasser swilling and holey cheese munchers, aren't they.
So perhaps a quick trip to St Gallen is on the books

 

This article won't copy and paste for me.........

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THE INDEPENDENT

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Sunday 7 July 2013
The McCanns: Innocent until tried by the newspapers
As British police swoop in six years on, Kate and Gerry McCann face weeks of press chatter
 




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kate and Gerry McCann are being treated with kid gloves by the media




There is often a moment in old-fashioned detective fiction when someone decides to "call in the Yard". Bumbling local cops are sidelined as worldly-wise detectives arrive from London, spotting missed clues and identifying suspects. Hence the sense of déjà vu I experienced a couple of days ago when there was a "breakthrough" in the Madeleine McCann case. Scotland Yard has launched a new investigation, detectives are supposedly about to "swoop" and arrests could be made "within weeks".

The popular press has always treated this abduction as a completely irresistible mystery. Since she disappeared in Portugal in 2007, Madeleine has been "spotted" I don't know how many times, while one "suspect" after another has been dismissed from the inquiry. There is a difference this time, which is that Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, are being treated with kid gloves. I suspect this has more to do with their successful libel action against Express newspapers, in which they were awarded damages of £550,000, than a sudden outbreak of compassion and decency.
In other respects, the announcement produced the usual round of febrile speculation, despite an attempt by Scotland Yard to manage expectations. All we know for certain is that detectives have identified 38 "persons of interest", including known sex offenders, during a lengthy review of the case. Twelve are UK nationals whom the police believe were in Portugal when Madeleine went missing.
But a "person of interest" is not the same as a prime suspect. Logic dictates that most, if not all, of the 38 will turn out to have nothing to do with the case, while the police have been careful to talk about no more than the "possibility" that Madeleine is alive. The review which preceded the inquiry involved 30,500 documents, material collected by both British and Portuguese police forces and the findings of seven private-detective agencies. The fact that so much material has been amassed without producing hard evidence shows how difficult this case is; vital leads are usually generated within hours of a crime, and detectives are dealing with events that took place six years ago.
I'm sure Kate and Gerry McCann, whom I've met on several occasions, are desperately hoping they will finally discover what happened to their daughter. No one who heard their testimony to the Leveson inquiry could doubt how much they've suffered because of the loss of their child, but I can't help wondering about the timing of the decision. It comes after a dreadful few weeks for the Metropolitan Police, whose reputation seems to become ever more battered with every news bulletin.
Already the McCann inquiry has produced headlines suggesting that Scotland Yard will succeed where their Portuguese colleagues failed, but it's a risky strategy. Meanwhile, the McCanns will have to brace themselves for weeks of speculation – and what could be a big test of the conduct of the popular press after the drubbing it received in the Leveson report.
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Thanks Cherry, a very interesting piece.

Very interesting indeed Candyfloss.

sally66 wrote:IMO unless you've got inside knowledge nobody knows 100% whether this is a whitewash or a genuine investigation.

There are pointers both ways and either way it is important that everybody is free to give their opinion and the fight for justice goes on.

I'm a bit of a fence sitter on this issue but I am leaning more towards whitewash.

As SY want something from the PJ and they  can only try and get by it being an investigation that would explain a lot.

If it is a whitewash  that to me indicates the darkest scenario.

Three successive governments seem to have done their utmost to protect the McCanns and their abduction story. That tells me that it is not in the interest of the government to get to the truth of the matter.What appears to be important is that the 'search for the truth' is seen to be done for the public.

I do believe they are trying to 'put it to bed' because the longer it goes on the more facts will leak out into the public domain. Facts that are constantly misrepresented by the press and other media.
All this recent activity is the art of misdirection, a magicians' trick. Imo whilst we're looking at the left hand, the right hand is holding a big brush dipped in white paint.

In a matter of weeks, Tessy May has done what successive Home Secretaries have failed to do- extradite Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada. Let's hope for Maddie's sake she really is on a roll.

Tigger, if they wanted to 'put it to bed' they would have done so before now, maybe after a year or so. The case was shelved, and put to bed so to speak, yes, the McCanns were pressing for the review, but the Government could have just made the excuse that it was a Portuguese case and they could not get involved. To charge someone and bring a case, whether it be spotty man, bundleman, or anyone else, they are going to have to show, how the crime was committed, by whom, and find Madeleine, whether dead or alive.

candyfloss wrote:Tigger, if they wanted to 'put it to bed' they would have done so before now, maybe after a year or so.  The case was shelved, and put to bed so to speak, yes, the McCanns were pressing for the review, but the Government could have just made the excuse that it was a Portuguese case and they could not get involved.  To charge someone and bring a case, whether it be spotty man, bundleman, or anyone else, they are going to have to show, how the crime was committed, by whom, and find Madeleine, whether dead or alive.  

Yes indeed Candyfloss, we have had a big fanfare and a request for restraint by the media (bit of an oxymoron) - but nevertheless, if they've got nothing, they are going to have a lot of explaining to do.

ShuBob wrote:In a matter of weeks, Tessy May has done what successive Home Secretaries have failed to do- extradite Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada. Let's hope for Maddie's sake she really is on a roll.

 Tessa May did NOT, in fact, extradite Abu Hamza. He elected to return to Jordan himself if the UK and Jordon could agree on terms that HE had requested.
He called the shots and could have backed out at any given time if HE had chose to.
And we still have his ruddy wife and kids here costing us a fortune.

candyfloss wrote:Tigger, if they wanted to 'put it to bed' they would have done so before now, maybe after a year or so.  The case was shelved, and put to bed so to speak, yes, the McCanns were pressing for the review, but the Government could have just made the excuse that it was a Portuguese case and they could not get involved.  To charge someone and bring a case, whether it be spotty man, bundleman, or anyone else, they are going to have to show, how the crime was committed, by whom, and find Madeleine, whether dead or alive.  

***
You know what, Candyfloss ? Sometimes [just sometimes ...] I am afraid they will produce a Madeleine with just a little fleck in her eye ...  

Casey5 wrote:

ShuBob wrote:In a matter of weeks, Tessy May has done what successive Home Secretaries have failed to do- extradite Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada. Let's hope for Maddie's sake she really is on a roll.

 Tessa May did NOT, in fact, extradite Abu Hamza. He elected to return to Jordan himself if the UK and Jordon could agree on terms that HE had requested.
He called the shots and could have backed out at any given time if HE had chose to.
And we still have his ruddy wife and kids here costing us a fortune.

Hamza chose not to fight his appeals because he knew he would lose. Teresa May seems to have her head screwed on, I think she got the measure of the Mccanns too, so l hope she's proved right.

Casey5 wrote:

ShuBob wrote:In a matter of weeks, Tessy May has done what successive Home Secretaries have failed to do- extradite Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada. Let's hope for Maddie's sake she really is on a roll.

 Tessa May did NOT, in fact, extradite Abu Hamza. He elected to return to Jordan himself if the UK and Jordon could agree on terms that HE had requested.
He called the shots and could have backed out at any given time if HE had chose to.
And we still have his ruddy wife and kids here costing us a fortune.

Ok. Both Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada LEFT the UK under Home Secretary Tessy May's watch.

not a subscriber so can't read any more from  the Times 12/7/2013.

   Portugal will aid Yard case on Madeleine


Portugal will co-operate with a new British police inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the Attorney-General’s office in Lisbon said yesterday.
Scotland Yard said last week that it had identified potential suspects in the case and wanted to open a new international inquiry into Madeleine’s abduction from a holiday apartment on the Algarve in 2007. But Britain has yet to deliver its formal request for assistance to the Portuguese authorities.
A spokesman for the Portuguese Attorney-General’s office said that the country was a signatory to two European treaties on mutual legal assistance:“ Portugal has an international obligation to cooperate in

The Portuguese could only have agreed on one condition, and one condition only....

So there's FRESH hope after all.

P.S.  Can this thread have a change of title please? Every time  I see it I am thinking a new announcement is imminent.......

I agree with you aiyoyo, please change the title admin as the current one builds up our hopes only to learn there is nothing new.... for the time being[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Teresa May is being heavily tipped as the next leader of the Conservative party, and therefore as the next Prime Minister, and therefore as only the second woman Prime Minster . . . . .
She now has Hamza and Qatada as successes, however they were achieve, something which the party opposite and previous Home Secretaries remarkably failed to do.
OK,  the timing is everything, but to be associated with success is always good for a politician.

Now imagine a success in this case.
It can be either - MADELEINE FOUND ALIVE -  here she is posing with Teresa May who granted the funding in the face of opposition because as a married woman blah blah blah
OR
Parents to be prosecuted,   No nonsense Home Secretary has been working behind the scenes to ensure that . . .   The so called extra funding" for this operation is in fact no different from the normal pay the officers would have received anyway.  No extra expense has been incurred, other than a few plane tickets and at last justice has been seen to be done, and the fact the the Opposition politicians had the wool pulled over their eyes for so long it just another demonstration of . . . .

sammyc wrote:I agree with you aiyoyo, please change the title admin as the current one builds up our hopes only to learn there is nothing new.... for the time being[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Err, it was changed hours ago sammyc.

assume they will be joining PJ inspectors for siesta time, sardine lunches if not getting paid for breaks ! why shouldn't they imo good time to brainstorm all their ideas together with a cigar if needed.

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