Do Not Muzzle The Ox That Treads The Corn.

Nina wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

jd wrote:

She was even sent alone for Christmas 2005 to her grandparents. The first Christmas with the twins as a family.

Oh yes, had forgotten about this

Didn't we discuss this just a few weeks ago, and it was badly worded and misconstrued, and that in fact all the family went. It's on a thread somewhere, Here just found it..........

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One of those calls is particularly strong in Eileen's memory.

She said: "When she was two, Madeleine spent Christmas at my house and it was lovely.

"The next year, the family came up for New Year but on Christmas Day Madeleine called and said she'd got a kitchen from Santa. She was very excited and said 'I'm going to make some tea'."

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I think Eileen meant the whole family, and the the next year they didn't go up for Christmas but the New Year.

Hmmmm so when Madeleine was two eh? So she would be two years and seven months at that Christmas, so yes still two, the twins would have been ten months, but they nor the parents are mentioned, just Madeleine. However they are mentioned as a family visiting the following new year by which time Madeleine would be three going into four so that must have been the new year of 2007. Christmas 2006 at home then they all go up to see Grandma Eileen for the new year ie 2007.
I am reading it that she was there alone with Grandma Eileen.

To me it's sounds as though Grandma Eileen just had Madeleine for Christmas.

We went over that not long ago and it was definitely Maddie alone, Eileen's husband had died I think and the idea was that it would be nice if she had Madeleine. It was confirmed but I don't know where to find it right now.

I get what you all saying about their reaction afterwards, the laughs and in that particular picture, the happy faces. Which is really sad. I am going to share my opinion on this. It has been discussed on here, I dont remember by who, but that's my feeling too.

Like I said earlier I dont' think Kate is either mentally or emotionally stable. I am a mother of one. My daughter had colic when she was a baby and was quite a hyper todler. To top it all she has OCD, Which means things could become tiring at times. Now don't get me wrong here and I'm sure all healthy balanced mom's and dad's will understand that there are times that you do need a break.

With Kate, Gerry and Madeleine. I think they loved her in their own way. They waited a long time for her, but I think it all changed when the twins came. I think we all have come to the conclusion that Madeleine was difficult as a baby and it became worse when the twins was born. To raise 3 kids under the age of 4 can't be an easy task. I'm sure there are people for whom it comes natural to maybe raise 5 kids under the age of 6, but

1) Parenthood did not come natural for them
2) They lived a life where there weren't space for "difficult" kids
3) Madeleine probably became more and more demanding once the twins were there
4) There were even talks of having her adopted by someone in the family - which means Kate did not cope with the kids, less so Gerry.

For a person to change her life from being "hotlipshealy" to a full time mother of 3 small kids is massive. Kate comes across as someone being desperate at times, and I'm sure it was like that even before the incident. The fact that there were plans on having her adopted by family tells me that they didn't want her but also didn't want to let go of her fully (even if it was just to keep their concious clear) I mean life with one less child would have been a lot easier on Kate. Sad, but true :-(

But that is why I can see why they look relieved. It was like the problem was solved. WE don't have to feel bad anymore for trying to give her away. We can pretend now to have been the best parents to her ever. We can pretend to have loved her to bits. We don't have to explain to anyone why we want to give our daughter away.

They are in their own little world now, just how they wanted it. Them and the twins.

The fact that Kate said "it was not suppose to happen like this". Well to me it confirms what I'm thinking. She probably wanted Madeleine gone, but not like this. I for one can not stand Gerry McCann because of his controlling nature. But I can also see Kate can become emotionally draining. Even before the incident. She is a loose cannon.... even though she seem to be in control sometimes its probably because of some meds she is using too. They way she talks (which have been discussed on plenty of blogs) She talks slow, then faster then pauses - long silences then fast and slow again. She always looks tired. And I think for them now, the guilt for literally not wanting her full time is worse than the fact that she is dead.

Can someone please point me to where KM says" it was not supposed to happen like this". I thought that was David Payne.

When did Kate say that tigger? I remember David Payne being quoted saying something like were expecting something to happen but not this and iirc he was referring to the Mccanns being made arguidos, but don't quote me.

eta: cross posted.
eta: sorry, I meant sweetex and seen the reply.

Apr 27 2008 By Grace Macaskill, Sunday Mail
Exclusive Madeleine: Our Year Of Pain
MADELEINE McCANN'S beloved Scots gran has spoken for the first time about her family's year of torment.
Saturday will mark the first anniversary of Madeleine's abduction in Portugal.
In a heart-breaking interview, Eileen McCanndescribes the pain her son Gerry and daughter-in-law Kate haveendured... and her lasting hope that her lost angel can still be foundalive.
_snipped________________


Eileen says Madeleine's twin siblings Sean and Amelie still regularly talk about their sister, despite the 12 long months which have passed since she vanished in Praia du Luz on Portugal's Algarve.
She said: "Kate and Gerry don't have to remind the twins Madeleine is no longer there because they ask where she is all the time.
"They pick up the phone to speak to her and ask, 'Where are you?'"
(philomena has almost word for word the same sort of story about the twins - at another date)

"I knew Madeleine had been abducted, I just knew it in my heart. She would never have got up and gone off on her own, it just wasn't in her nature.
"She wouldn't have left the twins, she was like a wee mother figure to them.
"If someone lifted her out of bed Madeleine would have screamed the place down. That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to and she and the twins were quite shy about meeting new people.
"I just can't imagine what happened."
Eileen described how Gerry tenderly read his children a bedtime story just hours before Madeleine vanished.
She said: "They'd had a really full day because they'd been up early.
"Gerry said he put Madeleine and the twins to bed and read them all a story. He said they were very tired and he almost fell asleep too.
"He and Kate didn't leave until after 8pm and the children were sound asleep. They then checked on them every half hour. Who could have imagined that somebody would take Madeleine as she lay sleeping in her pyjamas?"( those pyjamas figure rather large in the narrative)
snip.
- somebody came into Maddie's room, carried her out in her pyjamas and we just don't know where she is. It's the stuff of nightmares.

She is near to tears as she describes how close a bond she felt to Madeleine from the day she was born.
Eileen said: "Madeleine was in my heart from that very first day.
"She was born on a Tuesday and I went down to see her on the Friday.
"I felt I had a really special bond with her.
"One night I took her into my bed to let Gerry and Kate get a sleep and it was just lovely having her lying there next to me.
"When I couldn't get to see her, I would speak to her on the phone."
One of those calls is particularly strong in Eileen's memory.
She said: "When she was two, Madeleine spent Christmas at my house and it was lovely.
"The next year, the family came up for New Year but on Christmas Day Madeleine called and said she'd got a kitchen from Santa. She was very excited and said 'I'm going to make some tea'."
This Christmas was spent without the blonde-haired, green-eyed girl who fills Eileen's life with such joy.
Snipped.

candyfloss wrote:Can someone please point me to where KM says" it was not supposed to happen like this". I thought that was David Payne.

Don't have a link, will try and find it. Tbh I think I only heard about it.

Payne said this: One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."

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Yes, I posted the relevant clip earlier tigger, and I think we will have to agree to disagree. It can be read both ways. As Eileen was specifically talking about Madeleine throughout that article, she says Madeleine came up for Christmas, because she was talking about her, To me, that is the way it is written, and I would take it the whole family was there.

sweetex wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Can someone please point me to where KM says" it was not supposed to happen like this". I thought that was David Payne.

Don't have a link, will try and find it. Tbh I think I only heard about it.

Payne said this: One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."

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What exactly does that mean ' we were waiting for something to happen' what exactly, an earthquake, a tornado, Gerry to shut up and let someone else speak for a change!! Why on this planet would he say such a strange thing?

Hummingbird wrote:

sweetex wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Can someone please point me to where KM says" it was not supposed to happen like this". I thought that was David Payne.

Don't have a link, will try and find it. Tbh I think I only heard about it.

Payne said this: One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."

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What exactly does that mean ' we were waiting for something to happen' what exactly, an earthquake, a tornado, Gerry to shut up and let someone else speak for a change!! Why on this planet would he say such a strange thing?

This was on a thread the other day. It was an article about the McCanns being made arguidos. All the tapas commented, on how they were not involved etc., and that was Paynes comment about them being made arguidos.

I'm not sure where it comes from that Kate said: It wasnt suppose to happen like this. But I remember its been said all over forums for a long time. Can't find a link though.

Only closest words I can find for now though is this : "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances." -

candyfloss wrote:

Hummingbird wrote:

sweetex wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Can someone please point me to where KM says" it was not supposed to happen like this". I thought that was David Payne.

Don't have a link, will try and find it. Tbh I think I only heard about it.

Payne said this: One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What exactly does that mean ' we were waiting for something to happen' what exactly, an earthquake, a tornado, Gerry to shut up and let someone else speak for a change!! Why on this planet would he say such a strange thing?

This was on a thread the other day. It was an article about the McCanns being made arguidos. All the tapas commented, on how they were not involved etc., and that was Paynes comment about them being made arguidos.

Oops sorry - need to get up to speed with these things! Then again was he having difficulty remembering which 'one of our party' saw the abduction - it doesn't matter what comment you read by these guys there is always something strange about them!! Oh well off to do some catching up on the previous threads - keep up the great work I have every faith that one day someone out there will eventually find that missing piece of the puzzle and BINGO!!

No worries Hummingbird, there's an awful lot to read here, have just been trying to find the thread, it may be on the David Payne thread, here in the Debate Section.

sweetex wrote:I'm not sure where it comes from that Kate said: It wasnt suppose to happen like this. But I remember its been said all over forums for a long time. Can't find a link though.

Only closest words I can find for now though is this : "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances." -

I think that is covered very well in the transcripts of the mcCann interviews on the McCannfiles.com. And also in the Dr. Roberts' articles, where he analyses their interviews. I'm sure the above remark is there. Because Gerry also made a remark to the effect that he wasn't there when she was taken. Fascinating reading.

@jd

Just to get back to the theory of 1st May. I'm currently reading through some of the statements again. It in unbelievable how much info there is on this case... and to absorb and reason through all of it. I came across something I totally forgot about which is:

However, both Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien have stated that he did not go to the Tapas Bar on the 'Quiz Night' (ie Tuesday 1st May 2007), but had stayed in their room looking after his sick daughter. Jane Tanner took his dinner to the room; thus explaining the unused plate setting. Russell O'Brien was not asked by either the Polícia Judiciaria or Leicestershire Police whether he had heard Madeleine crying!

Yesterday I mentioned the 3rd because Russel was away from the table for quite a while. I forgot or didn't realize that he never went for supper on the 1st.... That was the night Maddie was crying. I'm trying to put a few puzzle pieces together. Lol normally I'll start and leave for a while, read again, try again get other opinions etc. I am practically back to square 1 right now.

eta: It also seems that Kate's phone was quite busy between 10:15 and 10:27 on the 1st.

sweetex wrote:@jd

Just to get back to the theory of 1st May. I'm currently reading through some of the statements again. It in unbelievable how much info there is on this case... and to absorb and reason through all of it. I came across something I totally forgot about which is:

However, both Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien have stated that he did not go to the Tapas Bar on the 'Quiz Night' (ie Tuesday 1st May 2007), but had stayed in their room looking after his sick daughter. Jane Tanner took his dinner to the room; thus explaining the unused plate setting. Russell O'Brien was not asked by either the Polícia Judiciaria or Leicestershire Police whether he had heard Madeleine crying!

Yesterday I mentioned the 3rd because Russel was away from the table for quite a while. I forgot or didn't realize that he never went for supper on the 1st.... That was the night Maddie was crying. I'm trying to put a few puzzle pieces together. Lol normally I'll start and leave for a while, read again, try again get other opinions etc. I am practically back to square 1 right now.

eta: It also seems that Kate's phone was quite busy between 10:15 and 10:27 on the 1st.

It does your brain in doesn't it Wasn't it the night of the 3rd, ie abduction night, that he went to check and found his child had been sick, then Jane Tanner went to relieve him so he could come back and eat his meal, and she was in her apartment and not at the table when KM raised the alarm? Or am I mixed up? Jeez my brain hurts

Mine too

I thought so too. It seems that on the 1st he never went out for dinner with the group. Then on the 3rd he went for dinner but his check on his daughter took longer than expected because she was ill (again?!)... I'm looking for confirmation on this :-)

ROB's statement:

I know that on one of the evenings either Monday or Tuesday I stayed in the flat with Evie as she wasn’t well Jane brought my meals over to me this was mentioned in my first statement.

We need a list of who was missing each night. Where are you HiDeHo

No wonder the SY team would rather go for the sightings scenario than having to go through those witness statements, it don't half do your head in!

sweetex wrote:ROB's statement:

I know that on one of the evenings either Monday or Tuesday I stayed in the flat with Evie as she wasn’t well Jane brought my meals over to me this was mentioned in my first statement.

It was alsoTanners child that had been in hospital the week before. I think

candyfloss wrote:

sweetex wrote:ROB's statement:

I know that on one of the evenings either Monday or Tuesday I stayed in the flat with Evie as she wasn’t well Jane brought my meals over to me this was mentioned in my first statement.

It was alsoTanners child that had been in hospital the week before. I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It was one of their children, but it was something to do with her foot as far as I remember. Not an illness as such.

It seems that on

Sunday - Matthew Oldfield was not feeling well and did not go for supper
Monday- ???
Tuesday- ROB
Wednesday- Rachael did not feel well

Maybe someone else come along and can help on this, but this is what I have found so far. So if ROB was staying in on the 1st, it was also the same night Maddie cried according to Mrs Fenn.

So while I was searching now, I came accross [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the police files for the 4 photo's we discussed yesterday earlier on this thread. For ref purposes

sweetex wrote:It seems that on

Sunday - Matthew Oldfield was not feeling well and did not go for supper
Monday- ???
Tuesday- ROB
Wednesday- Rachael did not feel well

Maybe someone else come along and can help on this, but this is what I have found so far. So if ROB was staying in on the 1st, it was also the same night Maddie cried according to Mrs Fenn.

So while I was searching now, I came accross [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the police files for the 4 photo's we discussed yesterday earlier on this thread. For ref purposes

According to he who must be obeyed Clarence Mitchell the crying incident was on the night that Rachael was in her apt. feeling ill, because he said, on video, I think, that she was right next door and didn't hear a thing.

mitchells's comment was about the wednesday night the night the mccanns say madeleine told them she woke up crying and where were they?

as for the absences, it's correct, just sunday tueday and wednesday