The Kipper and the Corpse

I had the pleasure of having the time to watch a few episodes of Fawlty Towers last night, one of which being the Kipper and the Corpse episode!. For those of you who have not seen it, it involves the main character trying very hard to keep a corpse of resident concealed from view why they moved it about the hotel while waiting for the coroners to turn up.



I didn’t think to much of it in relation to anything else until a scene where they have dropped the corpse in the middle of the hallway and some guests start coming up the stairs! to distract the guests the maid `polly` runs in front of them , drops to her knees , blocking there path and delaying them while the others moved the body out of the hallway. She stays long enough for this to be done, gets up and make an apology saying she had dropped something.



I have no idea if there has been this discussion already , but I think one can where I am going with this thought.

The body in the episode was supposed have been taken away already, but it was there the hotel still the whole episode and the characters did anything, any kind of bizarre and odd distraction to make people look the other way or leave the area.

david_uk wrote:I had the pleasure of having the time to watch a few episodes of Fawlty Towers last night, one of which being the Kipper and the Corpse episode!. For those of you who have not seen it, it involves the main character trying very hard to keep a corpse of resident concealed from view why they moved it about the hotel while waiting for the coroners to turn up.



I didn’t think to much of it in relation to anything else until a scene where they have dropped the corpse in the middle of the hallway and some guests start coming up the stairs! to distract the guests the maid `polly` runs in front of them , drops to her knees , blocking there path and delaying them while the others moved the body out of the hallway. She stays long enough for this to be done, gets up and make an apology saying she had dropped something.






I have no idea if there has been this discussion already , but I think one can where I am going with this thought.

The body in the episode was supposed have been taken away already, but it was there the hotel still the whole episode and the characters did anything, any kind of bizarre and odd distraction to make people look the other way or leave the area.

I thought you were the one giving legal advice to lawyers such as TB, commenting on what you think are the wild theories of the members here and generally, imo, you appear to be rather contemptuous of such theories. e.g. dismissing theories on subjects where you do not have expert knowledge.
I found your 'advice' to TB particularly condescending in tone. Even I know that there is such a thing as disclosure in a court case.


Therefore I can only conclude that there is an explanation for the above more than ludicrous suggestion:
a) you are on too high a dose of happy pills
b) you are a WUM
c) you have never read the files regarding this case .


b and c are my choices.

tigger wrote:

david_uk wrote:I had the pleasure of having the time to watch a few episodes of Fawlty Towers last night, one of which being the Kipper and the Corpse episode!. For those of you who have not seen it, it involves the main character trying very hard to keep a corpse of resident concealed from view why they moved it about the hotel while waiting for the coroners to turn up.



I didn’t think to much of it in relation to anything else until a scene where they have dropped the corpse in the middle of the hallway and some guests start coming up the stairs! to distract the guests the maid `polly` runs in front of them , drops to her knees , blocking there path and delaying them while the others moved the body out of the hallway. She stays long enough for this to be done, gets up and make an apology saying she had dropped something.






I have no idea if there has been this discussion already , but I think one can where I am going with this thought.

The body in the episode was supposed have been taken away already, but it was there the hotel still the whole episode and the characters did anything, any kind of bizarre and odd distraction to make people look the other way or leave the area.

I thought you were the one giving legal advice to lawyers such as TB, commenting on the wild theories of the members here and generally, imo, you appear to be rather contemptuous of such theories.
Therefore I can only conclude that there is an explanation for the above more than ludicrous suggestion:
a) you are on too high a dose of happy pills
b) you are a WUM
c) you have never read the files regarding this case .

b and c are my choices.

For a start, you are extremely rude, but I know that already. I dont know whats got your back up? but it appears that is very easy to do. My guess is you are upset because I dont agree with something you have said. nothing new there either. I dont know what a WUM is, my guess a tag you have made up to give to people who dont agree with you. Going to have me banned soon I suppose?

I was not giving legal advice to anyone, a off the cuff comment regarding the information he was giving out about his court case is hardly legal advice. Not that I care in the slightest what you or Mr Bennett thought of the comment.


I am very contemptuous in regards to substitute, mediums, photoshoped pics, yes. However,there is nothing ludicrious about the suggestion of distraction when possibly trying to cover something up or delaying for extra time. Sorry you missed the point

Read the files! Then comment - hopefully more informed.

By your own admission you are 'contemptuous' of certain theories.

Well, off you go! Fit the Kipper and the corpse into the evening of the 3d. We can all do with a laugh.

tigger wrote:Read the files! Then comment - hopefully more informed.

Read the post - then comment, without being rude as per - sorry you dont get it

tigger wrote:Read the files! Then comment - hopefully more informed.

By your own admission you are 'contemptuous' of certain theories.

Well, off you go! Fit the Kipper and the corpse into the evening of the 3d. We can all do with a laugh.

Whats wrong with you, yes I have admitted that already, get over it![You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks for confirming that you have indeed missed the point, you think im being literal regarding the plot! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

If you have read the files, you will of read the statements regarding the parents apparent odd behaviour in front of GNR officers I believe.

I get what you are on about David, the art of distraction, and actually a very good point imo. That episode shows this brilliantly in a very funny way. Whilst you are so busy looking at one thing, something is happening elsewhere. A bit like the newspaper stories we are fed, we usually know something is going on.

[youtube][/youtube]



Were all the nearby apartments searched that night by the GNR or PJ, whilst all the kerfuffle was going on in 5a

candyfloss wrote:I get what you are on about David, the art of distraction, and actually a very good point imo. That episode shows this brilliantly in a very funny way. Whilst you are so busy looking at one thing, something is happening elsewhere. A bit like the newspaper stories we are fed, we usually know something is going on.

[youtube][/youtube]



Were all the nearby apartments searched that night by the GNR or PJ, whilst all the kerfuffle was going on in 5a

Thank the lord! I was waiting for the barrage of WUM finger pointing!. I think it was the GNR intially that told of two instances of Gerry, then Gerry and Kate dropping to there knees like praying Arabs!, which they thought was very odd! and indeed it has always struck me as strange. One instance was by the reception or outside 5a , i forget. and the other was on attempting to enter the main bedroom?. I would have to check to be sure and currently at work :), but i will check at lunch. Candyfloss - Do you have a clip of the part on the stairway with Polly dropping to the ground?

[youtube][/youtube]

candyfloss wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

Excellent. many thanks

If the Tapas mob did ever agree to stage a full reconstruction, I think that the outcome would be very similar to an episode of Fawlty Towers.

candyfloss wrote:I get what you are on about David, the art of distraction, and actually a very good point imo.

How attentive are we? Try the following test:

Excellent Ross, got the passes right, but didn't see the gorilla Very clever.

Very clever indeed. I thought it was a joke at the end when it was asked about the gorilla but yes it was really there and I hadn't seen it!

What???? No, I didn´t see the gorilla!!!! But I counted 15 passes[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Had to go back and see the gorilla again...

Mariita wrote:What???? No, I didn´t see the gorilla!!!! But I counted 15 passes[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Had to go back and see the gorilla again...

Yes, I had to replay it again thinking what gorilla, this is a joke, but there it was Just shows how easy it is to miss such glaring things right in front of you

Good point David. I have always wondered about the peculiar Arab prostration that was mentioned. Not sure I believe the suggestion that it was some kind of Masonic call to arms. However as a distraction while something else was happening seems like a more sensible suggestion.

candyfloss wrote:

Mariita wrote:What???? No, I didn´t see the gorilla!!!! But I counted 15 passes[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Had to go back and see the gorilla again...

Yes, I had to replay it again thinking what gorilla, this is a joke, but there it was [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Just shows how easy it is to miss such glaring things right in front of you [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yep, will visit the invisiblegorilla website later to be fooled again[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I will have to watch the Gorilla videao when i get home!

so, Do we know if on being in the entrance to the bedroom, and seeing the Mccanns `praying like arabs and crying, but not crying` , did they still enter the room? or where they distracted?. was the parents bedroom searched that night?

I think I read somewhere, probably one of the gnr statements, that said this happened in the reception area.

The scene of the parents "praying like arabs" on their bed in 5a is shown in Amaral's documentary. I seem to remember the GNR men staning outside the door looking at them with a shocked expression.

Whether or not this represents where exactly the GNR men were I don't know

sami wrote:The scene of the parents "praying like arabs" on their bed in 5a is shown in Amaral's documentary. I seem to remember the GNR men staning outside the door looking at them with a shocked expression.

Whether or not this represents where exactly the GNR men were I don't know

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
From: Jose Maria Batista Roque - After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa - He also states "He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand."

In a case that has thrown up many surrealities, this wailing prostration is surely the most surreal. Certainly it could have been done as a distraction, but there would have been plenty of plausible ways to draw attention to themselves other than making such a ridiculous spectacle.

As for some form of masonic distress ritual, I would presume that a secret society would have some considerably less obvious method of communicating distress, what with it being secret and everything!

I think "....at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand." is the clue what mccann was really 'asking'.

if it was a distraction, i wouldnt certainly not say it was any kind of planned distraction technique! if you had time you might set up something more subtle? lets say Gerry goign to the door and saying Kate was very upset and having a lie down for example, please dont go in. I am saying if you are suddenly in a position where a couple of officers appear at the door and you want to delay or confuse or embarass them into not entering a room, what would your first instant reaction be! it may be to do something quite strange? (see fawlty towers clip). If one of them was to go up to a GNR officer about to enter the bedroom and say `please dont come in` or run toward door put your arm across the door! that would immediately arouse suspicion would it not?. falling to the floor, wailing and throwin your hands in the air would be distracting and would many people interupt a distressed pair to ask to look around the room?. epecially if you were of the opinion that the little girl has `wandered off` and the parents would of checked already, its there daughter, surely they have checked the whole department?!.

It wasn't a distraction, it was asking the question

Hello folks, I know this is a side issue and I am not getting a t anyone specifically here but this term could be construed as a little offensive. I am not normally a politically correct person, I actually feel the idea to be overused, however, I assume what is meant by this term is that the McCanns kn elt down, put their heads on the bed and were waving their arms and wailing, there have been several different descriptions. I then assume the "arabs" bit is meant to mean the prayer of Muslims or salat, practiced 5 times a day. This is not a spontaneous kneeling and waving of arms, but a practised, timed and carefully performed ritual prayer. It is meant to be carried out before God, with the forehead and hands touching the ground when the body has been thoroughly cleaned, by the individual, focussing totally on the prayer, the words and actions in reverence to God. There is no wailing, but there are words in arabic or whichever language the believer speaks if he/she can not speak arabic. In addition Muslims are not just Arabs, they can be English, Welsh, Scottish, Malaysian, Indonesian, American, Indian, Pakistani, Australian, etc, indeed there are over 90 million Muslims in China. So praying like Arabs is a little odd, simply because prostration occurs in Hindu Puja, Buddhist prayer and in some form or other in most of the major and many of the not so well known religions of the world. An earlier post on another thread , I cannot remember by whom, could not understand the idea of Muslims throwing stones at some rocks during the Hajj pilgrimage, Well, that too is part of a religious process where the believer is symbolically attempting to cast stones at a structure representing the devil. Again in many world religions there are ideas of getting rid of the devil, or casting out demons. Yes, to people outside these faiths, unless it is explained, as I have briefly tried to do here, then it all seems strange. To many non Christians I have spoken to and worked with, the idea of having an imaginary/real friend called Jesus is also strange, as is the Buddhist idea of letting go, during the meditative process. Religion can be baffling and yes, has caused more than confusion and heartbreak, but when we try to understand it instead of fear it, then it can also be interesting. Religion is often used and hijacked by the wrong people for the wrong purposes..In this case, I believe religion has been used as a badge and a screen. "we are Catholics, therefore we cannot etc etc etc" I once knew a man who said he was a born again Christian so he never lied....he did. If the McCanns were said to be "praying like arabs" then that is inaccurate and a bit derogatory. It does show a lack of knowledge of religion but then again, research has shown that many "believers" know very little about the religions they believe in. Like the old story of the teenager who goes into the jewellers and asks for a cross in Anytown, UK and says, "oh and can I have one with that little bloke on". In this case I am of the opinion that the use of religion, while both parents are supposed to have come from Catholic families, has been to ensure that sympathy from a community was engendered right from the beginning. However, if the description is correct, then to use the phrase "praying like arabs" is insulting to Arabs.

The expression used was taken from articles, transcripts and translations, hence the use here, i agree it could be offensive but then everything is offensive to someone these days. but no is offense is meant and admins can please remove from my posts here if it is a problem.

I fully understand the distraction theory. Just not how it applies to that evening.

They were in charge of calling the police. They knew that once the police arrived they would not have control of the location.
They could also not know when the police would bring in the dogs. They did not call the police until about 10.40 I believe.

The performance Gerry gave was at the OC reception, not at 5a. Might be masonic - PeterMac once found a bona fide instruction for that. If it was and - unlike in the UK - the police weren't Masons, the repeat performance covered that by pretending it was part of the distress.

Adjustments to the crime scene were made the following day when the tennis bag and the pink blanket must have been removed from 5a by a person or persons unknown. That's all we know.

The idea which was implicated that third parties were wildly trying to hide a corpse or incriminating items, makes a number of other people accessories to the fact and is in complete contradiction to david_uk's 'keeping it simple'.

I stand by my earlier remark that being 'contemptuous' of other theories is not an attitude I've come across often here. A hypothesis has to be set up in order to be disproved. I've just given my opinion on the above. It doesn't take all of the evidence of that evening into account. It isn't logical, imo.

tigger wrote:I fully understand the distraction theory. Just not how it applies to that evening.

They were in charge of calling the police. They knew that once the police arrived they would not have control of the location.
They could also not know when the police would bring in the dogs. They did not call the police until about 10.40 I believe.

The performance Gerry gave was at the OC reception, not at 5a. Might be masonic - PeterMac once found a bona fide instruction for that. If it was and - unlike in the UK - the police weren't Masons, the repeat performance covered that by pretending it was part of the distress.

Adjustments to the crime scene were made the following day when the tennis bag and the pink blanket must have been removed from 5a by a person or persons unknown. That's all we know.

The idea which was implicated that third parties were wildly trying to hide a corpse or incriminating items, makes a number of other people accessories to the fact and is in complete contradiction to david_uk's 'keeping it simple'.

I stand by my earlier remark that being 'contemptuous' of other theories is not an attitude I've come across often here. A hypothesis has to be set up in order to be disproved. I've just given my opinion on the above. It doesn't take all of the evidence of that evening into account. It isn't logical, imo.

you dont understand how the distraction applies to that evening. ok then[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Im not the only one who dismisses certain theories and im not pushing a particular overall theory either. I am not trying to take the rest of evening into account, just opening discussion on that one particular aspect , that being Gerry and kates odd behaviour of falling to the ground and crying. It was noted by various witness and always struck me as odd, it was when watching FT episode that I pondered if it was a spare of the moment means of distraction?. that is all.