Re: Do Not Muzzle The Ox That Treads The Corn.

by jd 16.05.12 15:15

[quote="Hummingbird"]

Hummingbird wrote:Hi, I have just been reading through this thread and 2 things struck me - probably covered before but relevant to what is being said here.

1. I used to air travel a lot and often would take a laptop with me, I know that my handbag and laptop always go with me and were never checked in for obvious reasons - too valuable, you never pack laptops, cameras, jewellery etc etc in you hold luggage. If one of them had a laptop with them then I feel they would have had it on their lap, over their shoulders with strap or in their hands in the video when they are on the bus travelling to the terminal in Portugal. I would never put my laptop between my feet under the chair etc on the airport bus because the 'rush' and commotion on exiting the bus often makes one forget things. Therefore maybe one can be seen on the video, does Kate have a handbag on her lap, how big is it and would it be big enough to hold a laptop? Of course they could have been stupid enough to pack it in their suitcase if they didn't want someone to see it and then we would never know!! Just thinking out loud.

2. I am sure you have all seen it, but with reference to the dominant GM, I remember seeing a video of one of the first interviews, the one where Kate is asking the abductor not to hurt Madeleine, the one that makes my blood run cold when Gerry shoots a look at her and then puts his head on her shoulder. The video (I believe on Youtube) was where some guy had had his volume up really high on his computer and heard Gerry mutter something under his breath as he puts his head on her shoulder, this muttering was 'SHUT UP' . You cannot see his mouth move but if anyone can find it and show the link when you've watched it try this. Pretend you are a ventriloquist and try to say shut up under your breath without moving your lips it is almost doable, the only thing you can't do is the last P!!

It certainly shows a very dominant side to him even right at the beginning. Again I apologise if this has been done many times before, but it was something that as I say came to mind as I read the thread!

They only had a USB stick with them which begs the question....why take a USB stick with old photos of Maddie with them on a holiday? gerry mccann certainly comes across as very dominant to me, the interview when he just got up and walk out with kate saying to him to calm down says a lot to me about him. As does when he is put under pressure with questions, he attacks back with his answers and transmits a hostile feeling. I think the continuing smirk on that face he shows is a sign of someone who believes he is in control, its when he is not that you see the true gerry mccann. The Tapas staff say in their statements they always remember gerry mccann before the 3rd of May because he was always loud and the most talkative one, cracking jokes, centre of attention, and it seems most of the others were listening to him. Most photos released has him in them rather than kate which is odd. The way he totally dismissed jane tanner in the C4 documentary when she mentioned the football comment, if looks could kill this was it (this was another shut up under his breath moment). Yes all the signs that he is the dominant one are very clear

by jd 16.05.12 15:20

I agree about Dianne Webster. Even if she did see Maddie for the last time on the 1st or the 3rd or whatever date, I don't think it is a deliberate lie. She wants to keep out of this. Things happens daily around us without noticing. If they ask me now for instance when was the last time I saw my neighbour, I wont be sure. It could be yesterday afternoon or morning. Come to think of it, I'm actually not sure if I saw her at all yesterday.

Dianne Webster was the only one who was honest about the plastic oilcloth which surrounded the Tapas bar and that it impaired the vision to the apartments and that you wouldn't be able to hear outside the bar due to the noise that it kept inside of the bar. Everyone else would have you believe it was like having a BBQ in your back garden

by Spaniel 16.05.12 15:21

What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly have met with an accident on the 3rd, it had to be the 2nd or earlier, then I read on this thread all sorts of trying to account for the 3rd. So which is it?

by sweetex 16.05.12 15:31

Spaniel wrote:What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly have met with an accident on the 3rd, it had to be the 2nd or earlier, then I read on this thread all sorts of trying to account for the 3rd. So which is it?

Well Snifferdog can correct me if I am wrong but this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened. People should be open to explore different theories and ideas? Everyone has his/her own opinion? Lol what is yours?

In short my theory, that she died because of some accident with Kate and it was a coverup. I think there is a chance that it could have happened anytime from the 1st. My point was that I find it hard to believe that it was planned. In my opinion it was an accident.

by **tigger** 16.05.12 15:39

Hummingbird wrote:Hi, I have just been reading through this thread and 2 things struck me - probably covered before but relevant to what is being said here.

1. I used to air travel a lot and often would take a laptop with me, I know that my handbag and laptop always go with me and were never checked in for obvious reasons - too valuable, you never pack laptops, cameras, jewellery etc etc in you hold luggage. If one of them had a laptop with them then I feel they would have had it on their lap, over their shoulders with strap or in their hands in the video when they are on the bus travelling to the terminal in Portugal. I would never put my laptop between my feet under the chair etc on the airport bus because the 'rush' and commotion on exiting the bus often makes one forget things. Therefore maybe one can be seen on the video, does Kate have a handbag on her lap, how big is it and would it be big enough to hold a laptop? Of course they could have been stupid enough to pack it in their suitcase if they didn't want someone to see it and then we would never know!! Just thinking out loud.

2. I am sure you have all seen it, but with reference to the dominant GM, I remember seeing a video of one of the first interviews, the one where Kate is asking the abductor not to hurt Madeleine, the one that makes my blood run cold when Gerry shoots a look at her and then puts his head on her shoulder. The video (I believe on Youtube) was where some guy had had his volume up really high on his computer and heard Gerry mutter something under his breath as he puts his head on her shoulder, this muttering was 'SHUT UP' . You cannot see his mouth move but if anyone can find it and show the link when you've watched it try this. Pretend you are a ventriloquist and try to say shut up under your breath without moving your lips it is almost doable, the only thing you can't do is the last P!!

It certainly shows a very dominant side to him even right at the beginning. Again I apologise if this has been done many times before, but it was something that as I say came to mind as I read the thread!

Yes, I once saw that little episode, other members thought he said 'belt up' a Glaswegian expression, but it was something like that. The way he literally dragged her off when asked about Murat - unbelievable. Control, but when made arguido he went to pieces, out of control - luckily Gordon fixed it for them.
You want to have a look at the photos of their Madrid promotion of the book last year. Kate seems in charge there, animated and Gerry looks at her in one shot - not the way a caring husband should look at his wife - as if she is an unexploded bomb.

Re the laptops, he had one later but not his own. I think they would leave them at home, certainly if planning was involved. The PJ would certainly want to check their laptops, like a lot of things it would be standard procedure in such a case. The first thing to do is to eliminate the parents.

by Snifferdog 16.05.12 15:43

sweetex wrote:
Spaniel wrote:What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly have met with an accident on the 3rd, it had to be the 2nd or earlier, then I read on this thread all sorts of trying to account for the 3rd. So which is it?

Well Snifferdog can correct me if I am wrong but this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened. People should be open to explore different theories and ideas? Everyone has his/her own opinion? Lol what is yours?

In short my theory, that she died because of some accident with Kate and it was a coverup. I think there is a chance that it could have happened anytime from the 1st. My point was that I find it hard to believe that it was planned. In my opinion it was an accident.

That's correct Sweetex, you can debate any theory. (just not the paedo snatching on 3rd of May theory which is impossible to debate as it has nothing to substantiate it) [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by sweetex 16.05.12 15:49

That's correct Sweetex, you can debate any theory. (just not the paedo snatching on 3rd of May theory which is impossible to debate as it has nothing to substantiate it) [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Lol I agree!! There was no snatching/abduction #FACT

I think the point is and why you started this thread is some people have tunnel vision (I'm probably one of them) but its good to at least be open to other possibilities :) The only way is to talk about it, to reason, and refer to evidence we do have etc.

by jd 16.05.12 16:01

sweetex wrote:
Well Snifferdog can correct me if I am wrong but this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened. People should be open to explore different theories and ideas? Everyone has his/her own opinion? Lol what is yours?

In short my theory, that she died because of some accident with Kate and it was a coverup. I think there is a chance that it could have happened anytime from the 1st. My point was that I find it hard to believe that it was planned. In my opinion it was an accident.

Exactly Sweetex. This thread and forum is open to different theories and nobody truly knows that happened, though there are quite strong indications. I see a theory that is realistic that she could have died on the night or before, from all the available evidence and facts my feeling is pointing towards before, though I am always open to the night itself

you can debate any theory. (just not the paedo snatching on 3rd of May

The problem with the abduction theory is the fact that there is not one shred of evidence of an abduction or any fact to go on. And 5 years later. Its only words spoken by the mccann party that we have. Whether Maddie dies on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd, we have for starters cavader found in the apartment 5a as fact from dogs that have a 100% record in over 200 cases and have since been and currently employed exclusively by the FBI

by sweetex 16.05.12 16:10

Whether Maddie dies on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd, we have for starters cavader found in the apartment 5a as fact from dogs that have a 100% record in over 200 cases and have since been and currently employed exclusively by the FBI

Exactly my feelings

by Spaniel 16.05.12 16:32

sweetex wrote:
Spaniel wrote:What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly have met with an accident on the 3rd, it had to be the 2nd or earlier, then I read on this thread all sorts of trying to account for the 3rd. So which is it?

Well Snifferdog can correct me if I am wrong but this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened. People should be open to explore different theories and ideas? Everyone has his/her own opinion? Lol what is yours?

In short my theory, that she died because of some accident with Kate and it was a coverup. I think there is a chance that it could have happened anytime from the 1st. My point was that I find it hard to believe that it was planned. In my opinion it was an accident.

Sweety, two police forces have tried for 5 years to get to the bottom of this. What makes you think my theory could carry weight, eh? Don't you think one or the other force would have thought of it before? I mean Sweety, get real.

by jd 16.05.12 16:38

I think you miss the point Spaniel "this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened"...its not about which is it and confusing visitors to this site. Its about having discussions to try to find the path to the truth

by Guest 16.05.12 16:44

Spaniel wrote:
sweetex wrote:
Spaniel wrote:What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly have met with an accident on the 3rd, it had to be the 2nd or earlier, then I read on this thread all sorts of trying to account for the 3rd. So which is it?

Well Snifferdog can correct me if I am wrong but this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened. People should be open to explore different theories and ideas? Everyone has his/her own opinion? Lol what is yours?

In short my theory, that she died because of some accident with Kate and it was a coverup. I think there is a chance that it could have happened anytime from the 1st. My point was that I find it hard to believe that it was planned. In my opinion it was an accident.

Sweety, two police forces have tried for 5 years to get to the bottom of this. What makes you think my theory could carry weight, eh? Don't you think one or the other force would have thought of it before? I mean Sweety, get real.

The posters name is sweetex, please do not change members names.

by sweetex 16.05.12 16:59

[quote="Spaniel"][quote="sweetex"]

Spaniel wrote:What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly

Sweety, two police forces have tried for 5 years to get to the bottom of this. What makes you think my theory could carry weight, eh? Don't you think one or the other force would have thought of it before? I mean Sweety, get real.

Between 200 or 2000 theories there is ONE correct theory. The only reason why it is not known yet is because of the interference of the British Establishment in the case and because the case was archived. Otherwise everyone would have known by now what exactly happened. What is the point of having a forum but we are not allowed discussing different possibilities. I would really like to hear yours, you may have some ideas that I have not yet thought about.

smilie

by **tigger** 16.05.12 16:59

Snifferdog wrote:
sweetex wrote:
Spaniel wrote:What really confuses me and I'm sure visitors to the site, is one day Madeleine couldn't possibly have met with an accident on the 3rd, it had to be the 2nd or earlier, then I read on this thread all sorts of trying to account for the 3rd. So which is it?

Well Snifferdog can correct me if I am wrong but this thread is about being open to different theories. Nobody here knows truly what happened. People should be open to explore different theories and ideas? Everyone has his/her own opinion? Lol what is yours?

In short my theory, that she died because of some accident with Kate and it was a coverup. I think there is a chance that it could have happened anytime from the 1st. My point was that I find it hard to believe that it was planned. In my opinion it was an accident.

That's correct Sweetex, you can debate any theory. (just not the paedo snatching on 3rd of May theory which is impossible to debate as it has nothing to substantiate it) [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

There are a few pointers and they come from Kate: she is supposed to have said (I'm still trying to find a reference!) 'It wasnt supposed to happen like that'.
On the video outside Lisbon court, when both of them get rattled by the press, she says (not verbatim quote) ' I was there, I know what happened'.
Gerry strangely keeps saying 'it's about this girl'.
So Sweetex, it may be a plan and an accident.
I am still on the side of planning - long term, life-changing planning and I think Maddie's health was a major factor in the origin of that plan.
Looking at the telephone pings, there certainly may have been a few emergencies that could point to an accident.

by Hummingbird 16.05.12 17:03

My quiet and thoughtful times are when I take my dog out for a walk in the forest, alone and peaceful and it is here that I go over the case in my mind and work on different theories - yep call me mad but it is the best time for me with no distractions other than bird song!!!
Now talking of dogs! - it is always the 'dog' evidence that makes me stop on my theories other than these two - Madeleine died somewhere whilst on that holiday either
1. before the 3rd or
2.on the 3rd,
my suspicions tend to lean towards a pre planned event because of certain factors like the posters that appear to have been printed prior to the holiday, brothers giving up full time jobs etc, but more importantly the coldness of her parents, then and now. I still cannot believe how any mother can behave like this if her child had died in an accident either say 5 hours or 48+ hours previously, she would have been distraught no matter what pressure GM put on her, the loss of her child from an accident could not be concealed, it is an emotion that no one should be able to hide. I look at the faces of other parents who have lost their children through dreadful circumstances, and they have a look in their eyes and look that is etched on their faces that will never go away, I just don't see this on KM and GM's faces. Do you think they ever thought that highly trained dogs would be flown in to Portugal from another country? Is it on record anywhere where they are personally known to have requested this? Without this crucial evidence found by the dogs then I think the case and most people would have just gone along with the 'abduction' theory. The finding of cadaver and blood made a lot of people take a different view - you can't dismiss such evidence and sadly we can't 'just ask the dogs' !

by jd 16.05.12 17:10

sweetex wrote:Between 200 or 2000 theories there is ONE correct theory. The only reason why it is not known yet is because of the interference of the British Establishment in the case and because the case was archived. Otherwise everyone would have known by now what exactly happened.

Well said

by jd 16.05.12 17:22

Hummingbird wrote: Do you think they ever thought that highly trained dogs would be flown in to Portugal from another country? Is it on record anywhere where they are personally known to have requested this? Without this crucial evidence found by the dogs then I think the case and most people would have just gone along with the 'abduction' theory. The finding of cadaver and blood made a lot of people take a different view - you can't dismiss such evidence and sadly we can't 'just ask the dogs' !

From Paulo Cristovão's book: A Estrela de Madeleine

Chapter 6 - "Death" said Krugel, Eddie and Keela

The month of July marks a turnaround in the case.

A former South-African policeman, Daniel Krugel, offers to help the investigation at no cost. He is an investigator at a SA university, and claims to have invented an equipment that is able to detect the presence of DNA from a specific person. The PJ welcomes his help, as the investigation is facing an imminent standstill.

Krugel stays in Praia da Luz for almost a week and writes a report that demolishes the abduction theory. Madeleine had been killed. Her body had been, or still is, at Praia da Luz. He informs the police and the McCanns about the results, and returns to his country, refusing to discuss his findings.

This is how it is decided to send for two dogs from England. Eddie is trained to detect traces of the presence of a cadaver at any location, while Keela is trained to detect minuscule traces of blood. They have solved over two hundred homicide cases together, and their credibility has never been questioned.

On the last day of July, the intuition of the investigators and the results from Krugel find two powerful allies that confirmed the scenario that had begun to form: the death of Madeleine McCann, on the evening of May 3.

by **tigger** 16.05.12 17:24

Hummingbird wrote:My quiet and thoughtful times are when I take my dog out for a walk in the forest, alone and peaceful and it is here that I go over the case in my mind and work on different theories - yep call me mad but it is the best time for me with no distractions other than bird song!!!
Now talking of dogs! - it is always the 'dog' evidence that makes me stop on my theories other than these two - Madeleine died somewhere whilst on that holiday either
1. before the 3rd or
2.on the 3rd,
my suspicions tend to lean towards a pre planned event because of certain factors like the posters that appear to have been printed prior to the holiday, brothers giving up full time jobs etc, but more importantly the coldness of her parents, then and now. I still cannot believe how any mother can behave like this if her child had died in an accident either say 5 hours or 48+ hours previously, she would have been distraught no matter what pressure GM put on her, the loss of her child from an accident could not be concealed, it is an emotion that no one should be able to hide. I look at the faces of other parents who have lost their children through dreadful circumstances, and they have a look in their eyes and look that is etched on their faces that will never go away, I just don't see this on KM and GM's faces. Do you think they ever thought that highly trained dogs would be flown in to Portugal from another country? Is it on record anywhere where they are personally known to have requested this? Without this crucial evidence found by the dogs then I think the case and most people would have just gone along with the 'abduction' theory. The finding of cadaver and blood made a lot of people take a different view - you can't dismiss such evidence and sadly we can't 'just ask the dogs' !

Quiet long walks! Jealous of you!
100% agree. It's the lack of grieving, if it was planned, the grieving was done long before. I think Maddie had some medical condition apart from being a very difficult child (Kate's own words). She was even sent alone for Christmas 2005 to her grandparents. The first Christmas with the twins as a family.
(this is all documented and attested by Eileen McCann).
So few photographs of the 'family' of five. Either Gerry or Kate was taking the photographs.
So the loss of Maddie wasn't going to be the loss of a child who had that much presence in their lives. But as I said, any grieving was done long before PdL and what I saw was relief and in Gerry particularly, the attitude of a man who could finally get on with his pet project 'the wider agenda'.

by jd 16.05.12 17:30

She was even sent alone for Christmas 2005 to her grandparents. The first Christmas with the twins as a family.

Oh yes, had forgotten about this

by Hummingbird 16.05.12 17:32

tigger wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:My quiet and thoughtful times are when I take my dog out for a walk in the forest, alone and peaceful and it is here that I go over the case in my mind and work on different theories - yep call me mad but it is the best time for me with no distractions other than bird song!!!
Now talking of dogs! - it is always the 'dog' evidence that makes me stop on my theories other than these two - Madeleine died somewhere whilst on that holiday either
1. before the 3rd or
2.on the 3rd,
my suspicions tend to lean towards a pre planned event because of certain factors like the posters that appear to have been printed prior to the holiday, brothers giving up full time jobs etc, but more importantly the coldness of her parents, then and now. I still cannot believe how any mother can behave like this if her child had died in an accident either say 5 hours or 48+ hours previously, she would have been distraught no matter what pressure GM put on her, the loss of her child from an accident could not be concealed, it is an emotion that no one should be able to hide. I look at the faces of other parents who have lost their children through dreadful circumstances, and they have a look in their eyes and look that is etched on their faces that will never go away, I just don't see this on KM and GM's faces. Do you think they ever thought that highly trained dogs would be flown in to Portugal from another country? Is it on record anywhere where they are personally known to have requested this? Without this crucial evidence found by the dogs then I think the case and most people would have just gone along with the 'abduction' theory. The finding of cadaver and blood made a lot of people take a different view - you can't dismiss such evidence and sadly we can't 'just ask the dogs' !

Quiet long walks! Jealous of you!
100% agree. It's the lack of grieving, if it was planned, the grieving was done long before. I think Maddie had some medical condition apart from being a very difficult child (Kate's own words). She was even sent alone for Christmas 2005 to her grandparents. The first Christmas with the twins as a family.
(this is all documented and attested by Eileen McCann).
So few photographs of the 'family' of five. Either Gerry or Kate was taking the photographs.
So the loss of Maddie wasn't going to be the loss of a child who had that much presence in their lives. But as I said, any grieving was done long before PdL and what I saw was relief and in Gerry particularly, the attitude of a man who could finally get on with his pet project 'the wider agenda'.

OMG I had not heard about the Christmas episode before, I have to say my heart is pounding having read that, what kind of loving parents would do that? Oh, I can't believe it. It has just completely cemented my theory that once the twins came along Madeleine was surplus to requirements, they suddenly had their beautiful blonde haired one boy and one girl perfect family, they were so well behaved compared to Madeleine, 'why oh why couldn't we just of had the twins first?' first thoughts of a plot begin to bubble!! aaargghhh I feel so repulsed by these two even more now!

Oh and yes the walks are great - think I may need to go now I can't begin to tell you how much the Christmas thing has hit home!

by jd 16.05.12 17:33

what I saw was relief and in Gerry particularly, the attitude of a man who could finally get on with his pet project 'the wider agenda'.

Just 9 days later....
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Hummingbird 16.05.12 17:39

jd wrote:
what I saw was relief and in Gerry particularly, the attitude of a man who could finally get on with his pet project 'the wider agenda'.

Just 9 days later....
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Still spitting feathers over the Christmas thing!!!

Can anyone remember this? When they returned home to Leics the media were gathered outside of their home in the hundreds and one day not long after arriving back the big cat lawyers arrived (forgot their name LOL) anyway there was a picture of GM letting them in the front door of the house and I will never forget his face as they went in and he was left to close the door - he looked out at the cameras with a look of ' you will never prove anything now we have these guys on board' it was shown once and once only and then disappeared forever - me thinks the Lawyers made sure as it was such a vile picture and so telling! Anyone got any clues about where it may be?

by Guest 16.05.12 17:43

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This subject was discussed a few weeks ago and it's by no means certain that Madeleine was not with her whole family at Christmas 2005.

by Guest 16.05.12 17:47

jd wrote:
She was even sent alone for Christmas 2005 to her grandparents. The first Christmas with the twins as a family.

Oh yes, had forgotten about this

Didn't we discuss this just a few weeks ago, and it was badly worded and misconstrued, and that in fact all the family went. It's on a thread somewhere, Here just found it..........

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One of those calls is particularly strong in Eileen's memory.

She said: "When she was two, Madeleine spent Christmas at my house and it was lovely.

"The next year, the family came up for New Year but on Christmas Day Madeleine called and said she'd got a kitchen from Santa. She was very excited and said 'I'm going to make some tea'."

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I think Eileen meant the whole family, and the the next year they didn't go up for Christmas but the New Year.

by Guest 16.05.12 17:50

I got there first Candyfloss!

by Guest 16.05.12 17:54

Jean wrote:I got there first Candyfloss!

Yes, well done Jean, your post showed when I pressed send big grin

by Guest 16.05.12 17:57

Hummingbird wrote:It has just completely cemented my theory that once the twins came along Madeleine was surplus to requirements, they suddenly had their beautiful blonde haired one boy and one girl perfect family, they were so well behaved compared to Madeleine, 'why oh why couldn't we just of had the twins first?' first thoughts of a plot begin to bubble!! aaargghhh I feel so repulsed by these two even more now!

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I've often wondered about the 'twins' thing and if Maddie was surplus to requirements. If you look at these photos of Kate and Gerry they seemed to dress alike - colour coordinated. Like the family had two sets of twins and Maddie was the odd one out.

I also think Maddie's 'disappearance' was pre-planned. Always have.

by jd 16.05.12 17:58

It was also discussed here....Its the wording of EM 'Madeleine came up for Christmas...Next year the family came up" I still think she is saying Maddie came up on her own jimo

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by **Nina** 16.05.12 18:16

candyfloss wrote:
jd wrote:
She was even sent alone for Christmas 2005 to her grandparents. The first Christmas with the twins as a family.

Oh yes, had forgotten about this

Didn't we discuss this just a few weeks ago, and it was badly worded and misconstrued, and that in fact all the family went. It's on a thread somewhere, Here just found it..........

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

One of those calls is particularly strong in Eileen's memory.

She said: "When she was two, Madeleine spent Christmas at my house and it was lovely.

"The next year, the family came up for New Year but on Christmas Day Madeleine called and said she'd got a kitchen from Santa. She was very excited and said 'I'm going to make some tea'."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I think Eileen meant the whole family, and the the next year they didn't go up for Christmas but the New Year.

Hmmmm

so when Madeleine was two eh? So she would be two years and seven months at that Christmas, so yes still two, the twins would have been ten months, but they nor the parents are mentioned, just Madeleine. However they are mentioned as a family visiting the following new year by which time Madeleine would be three going into four so that must have been the new year of 2007. Christmas 2006 at home then they all go up to see Grandma Eileen for the new year ie 2007.
flag

I am reading it that she was there alone with Grandma Eileen.

by Truthwillout 16.05.12 18:51

I always thought that maybe Madeleine had been playing up & Kate lost her temper & things went a bit far. But then a lot of what I've read points towards it being planned.
It's the printed pictures that have got me. I don't ever remember reading anything that pointed to why they had them or where they were printed. When they were asked, what did they say, or were they never asked?
Sorry it's a while since I read up on the case, I'll have to try & read it again to refresh my memory.

Going back to the video of TM that's been mentioned, I'm sure that I've watched it before but I can't find it on you tube, can anyone remember the title?

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