Re: Where was Murat's daughter during April 28th and May 5th 2007

by uppatoffee 15.05.12 20:07

tigger wrote:Candyfloss wrote: quoting from DM:
think this is what you mean tigger, I have never read the bit in bold in your post before, have you got a link for that, this is what I remember.........

Mark Warner did not return Ms Baker to Portugal from Greece and she has since left the company. She is now a live-in nanny looking after three children. Her location is being withheld on the request of the McCanns. unquote.

I'll have a look, she might be in New York - I'll do a trawl.

I agree with Russiandoll, I'd love to find a way to get Maddie listed without actually delivering a child. Aren't some of Gerry's signatures rather squeezed in?
I certainly don't think they were rigorous with the administration.

Tigger did you see I wrote baker is the one in the states. I think it is New York now you mention it.

by monkey mind 15.05.12 20:21

[quote="nomendelta"]My viewpoint is that we need to construct the simplest theory based on the evidence we have access to. This is what Amaral and Pat Brown have both done. Had Amaral started talking about doubting Maddies was even there (or as some have theorized that she never existed at all) he would have been laugehd at as well as reviled by the British media.
quote]

Simplest theory is usually but not always best.

GA was under tremendous pressure. How do you know that *accident* was his conclusion and not his opening bid?

Just because 'profilers' like Pat Brown come up with a theory doesn't make it conclusively correct. The best profilers are those that deal with the worst elements of society on a daily basis, not read from a book but the hard reality of it. I'll leave you with a paragraph from 'Madaleine's Star', now this is a true, hardcore, experienced, human detective speaking, a good one........

.“Those are 'simple explanations' exactly because they derive from the most basic, and monstrous, core of feelings that the human being is capable of. Self-preservation at any cost; egoism; the need for absolute power; avarice; despise for others; hedonism. João Tavares has always believed that the human being, no matter how educated and how instructed, no matter how polished in its image and in its manners, is capable of literally anything.”

Now THAT, is a profiler, that, is a man with first hand experience and importantly, insight. That, is a true detective. You can take that to the bank, for what it is worth.

by **tigger** 15.05.12 20:23

@ uppatoffee.

So Baker in the states and visiting Rothley in November (any other time would not be so suspicious) when the songsheets were handed out. Location withheld on the request of the mcCanns. Hmm.
Bear in mind as well that it was 'us against the world' Brits against the terrible and cruel Portuguese justice system. Much easier to get some cooperation from your fellow Brits, especially when they're getting 15 minutes of fame as well and are being interviewed and photographed. Could go to a girls' head, that sort of thing.

by **tigger** 15.05.12 20:54

@ monkeymind
Exactly, Amaral only used material that was available to him. At the time he decided to use the charges that would stick, rather than what really may have happened. His last interview is worth reading (it's on the site here somewhere).
Shame they didn't do that, because it would have been lots of money for them after that - a token stay in prison, the press on their side and the film and the book all there for them with none of the legal troubles they have now.

@nomendelta
I think we're at cross purposes here. You must have been alarmed by the WUMs (I think we have 2 or three now) who are giving us ridiculous plots for putative novels and so on. No-one remotely sensible here has ever suggested she wasn't ever there, or didn't even exist. There were two Maddies, the real one and the one presented to us by her parents. A difficult, hard to control child and the happy, loving child they should have had. So many pictures are at odds with each other.
The parents don't tell us much about the child, the funny things she did, how and what she played with the twins, etc. That's not natural. I'd bore people stiff with such stories.
We all seem to agree that a sub throws up a mountain of problems - but the description of her by the nannies is the opposite of the descriptions by her family and others. Shy - versus a handful, stroppy, a screamer. She loved water - the nannies say she was frightened of water and so on.

O yes, another thing that might help - Brigit Wilkins said there were some ten little blond girls of that age in the creche.

by uppatoffee 15.05.12 21:03

tigger wrote:@ uppatoffee.

So Baker in the states and visiting Rothley in November (any other time would not be so suspicious) when the songsheets were handed out. Location withheld on the request of the mcCanns. Hmm.
Bear in mind as well that it was 'us against the world' Brits against the terrible and cruel Portuguese justice system. Much easier to get some cooperation from your fellow Brits, especially when they're getting 15 minutes of fame as well and are being interviewed and photographed. Could go to a girls' head, that sort of thing.

Does seem odd that she would fly in from wherever she was to come to the house of a family she hardly knew. They must have paid her flight/travel expenses. It just seems odd. But then doesn't so much of this "mystery" roll

by monkey mind 15.05.12 21:51

uppatoffee wrote:
tigger wrote:@ uppatoffee.

So Baker in the states and visiting Rothley in November (any other time would not be so suspicious) when the songsheets were handed out. Location withheld on the request of the mcCanns. Hmm.
Bear in mind as well that it was 'us against the world' Brits against the terrible and cruel Portuguese justice system. Much easier to get some cooperation from your fellow Brits, especially when they're getting 15 minutes of fame as well and are being interviewed and photographed. Could go to a girls' head, that sort of thing.

Does seem odd that she would fly in from wherever she was to come to the house of a family she hardly knew. They must have paid her flight/travel expenses. It just seems odd. But then doesn't so much of this "mystery"

I suppose it's more than possible they may not necessarily have paid her expenses, they were struggling with the mortgage after all. Weren't they? Perhaps they took a directors loan from the *fund* though unsurprisingly I don't recall that mentioned in the accounts. Nor the repayment of such loan. There was something smokily similar shown in a later account I believe but heck, who knows. Perhaps the Kennedy in a china shop chipped in . Again. So many benefactors and the queen pin now more concerned with her own neck than theirs. Nice.

by Spaniel 15.05.12 22:14

david_uk wrote:
bobbin wrote:david_uk

"indeed, I think, as with everyone else we do not know. But I have
not seen anything that proves anomalies, I remember reading the last
photos threads way back and filed it all with subs and Psychics!."

Yes, we DO NOT KNOW, nor is anything 'PROVEN' yet.

That is precisely why we are still looking, testing every detail, weighing them all up, one against the other.
Each piece of a jigsaw will have no 'relevance' sighted on its own.

It is only when juxtaposed with another complementary bit that it takes on a significance.
Even a gap, of a certain shape can have significance if it helps the searcher to look for a piece that shape.

I would not wish to be arrogant and dismissive of what in the initial phase might seem spurious, or wild ideas since each and everyone of these may have significance at a later stage.

Even to dismiss 'psychics' is risky, since sometimes the perpetrator of an evil act will enjoy tantalising the researchers by dropping information their way.

An open mind, and the determination to continue until a satisfactory outcome is reached is better than 'dismissal' of something that may currently not have significance.

I prefer to stick to more tangible evidence and inconsistencies (inc Creche records).We all have our own thought processes , I am personally happy to dismiss anything involving Photoshopped pics,Substitutes, pre-planned fake abductions etc. Im sure the PJ have already gone through this process and separated the wheat from the chaff, the result being the 48 Questions?. I dont think we should be discussing the children any more than needed and discussions about subs tend to evolve into the bizzarre!,

I welcome all theories no matter how outlandish, because somewhere in one, may just spark something, a tiny smidgen, anything to find Madeleine.

As for photoshopping, I have no knowledge but I do have a question on the last picture so will post there.

by Badboys 15.05.12 23:07

tigger wrote:@ uppatoffee.

So Baker in the states and visiting Rothley in November (any other time would not be so suspicious) when the songsheets were handed out. Location withheld on the request of the mcCanns. Hmm.
Bear in mind as well that it was 'us against the world' Brits against the terrible and cruel Portuguese justice system. Much easier to get some cooperation from your fellow Brits, especially when they're getting 15 minutes of fame as well and are being interviewed and photographed. Could go to a girls' head, that sort of thing.

Catriona baker supposedly lives in massachusetts,however there may be a mix up,some of these internet sources may be incorrect

by russiandoll 15.05.12 23:55

quick post re creche sheets...this should be on the creche topic, so will post there also...
I noticed kikor told a member a while back that he/she could find info on a topic kikor had begun entitled HOW MADDIE'S CRECHE ATTENDANCE WAS ARRANGED. I could not find it, pmd kiko who does not come here often, no reply......contacted admin asking where this research was, no reply, can only guess it is in a private area somewhere, anyone any ideas?

by monkey mind 16.05.12 0:04

russiandoll wrote: quick post re creche sheets...this should be on the creche topic, so will post there also...
I noticed kikor told a member a while back that he/she could find info on a topic kikor had begun entitled HOW MADDIE'S CRECHE ATTENDANCE WAS ARRANGED. I could not find it, pmd kiko who does not come here often, no reply......contacted admin asking where this research was, no reply, can only guess it is in a private area somewhere, anyone any ideas?

Why not ask him on twitter??

Or why not examine the records with a keen eye for yourself?? Few questions will be necessary after that.

by Guest 16.05.12 0:06

russiandoll wrote: quick post re creche sheets...this should be on the creche topic, so will post there also...
I noticed kikor told a member a while back that he/she could find info on a topic kikor had begun entitled HOW MADDIE'S CRECHE ATTENDANCE WAS ARRANGED. I could not find it, pmd kiko who does not come here often, no reply......contacted admin asking where this research was, no reply, can only guess it is in a private area somewhere, anyone any ideas?

Yes it is in the researchers only section. I will check with admin on whether it can be moved or not.

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