LISA IRWIN, 10 months: parents make tearful plea - AND - Aaliyah Lunsford, missing in U.S., aged 3: LATEST

aiyoyo wrote:


Why is it in nearly every child missing case there is always a wealthy supporter willing to finance non qualified PI to interfere with Police investigation. What is the whole point when the police wont recognise the work of the PI or work with the PI? More to the point what can a PI without any credential or experience do that the Police can't?

These wealthy supporter just want to promote their name more like. It's baffling rich people mentality these days...they have more money than sense and too much time on their hands - that the trouble. If not that, then some idiots claiming to be experts will come along to criticise Police or prosecutor handling of forensics evidence and get the perpetrator off.

I have to question that statement aiyoyo. Only the 'chosen' cases get to be exposed and gain such
high profile status to invite that kind of financial speculation (it's quite rare actually).
Sadly the majority of cases don't even see the light of day. They are
held within a secretive and corrupt system, attracting maybe the same, or
a different kind of speculator. It's a huge market. Children are economic units, commodities. Some of these so called philanthropists are making a lot of money by using children in many different ways. Unsavoury but true.

When I say 'the majority' I mean the majority. This is not just my opinion, nor is it conspricay talk, it's fact. (I can back this up if need be?) I had no idea how bad the situation was until I started digging deeper. I'm no longer 'baffled by the mentality of these rich people with too much time on their hands'.I'm not a religous person but I will say: God bless all those missing children that go unnoticed and never get a mention.

Aaliyah? Lumsford

Not
much news about the other missing girl, the 3 yr old is there? She's
been missing for 3 weeks now? I tried searching (via scroogle) for any
updates but the last 3 hits I get is for this forum. I can't find any recent news. Mind you, I've seen
her forename 'Aaliyah' spelt so many different ways from so many
different sources that it's hard to know what her real christian name is? I thought that could be hindering my search. I'd appreciate any reliable updates for this case.

Daisy: I haven't seen the missing 3 year old's first name given as anything other than Aaliyah - clearly named after the singer who died in a plane crash some years ago. You're right that there doesn't seem to be anything recent about this case. It sounds so similar to that of the Australian girl last year.

P.S. The surname is LUNSFORD not LUMSFORD.

Marian wrote:Daisy: I haven't seen the missing 3 year old's first name given as anything other than Aaliyah - clearly named after the singer who died in a plane crash some years ago. You're right that there doesn't seem to be anything recent about this case. It sounds so similar to that of the Australian girl last year.

P.S. The surname is LUNSFORD not LUMSFORD.

Lol.. the irony. I did mean LUNSFORD honest, it was a typo! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I've seen the name Aaliyah spelt: Aaillyah; Aliyah & Aliayah. Check it out. I suppose it's an easy name to get wrong though. I've seen Madeleine misspelt numerous times.

.[/quote]
Aaliyah? Lumsford
I'd appreciate any reliable updates for this case.[/quote]

Daisy this site has info
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Daisy wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:


Why is it in nearly every child missing case there is always a wealthy supporter willing to finance non qualified PI to interfere with Police investigation. What is the whole point when the police wont recognise the work of the PI or work with the PI? More to the point what can a PI without any credential or experience do that the Police can't?

These wealthy supporter just want to promote their name more like. It's baffling rich people mentality these days...they have more money than sense and too much time on their hands - that the trouble. If not that, then some idiots claiming to be experts will come along to criticise Police or prosecutor handling of forensics evidence and get the perpetrator off.

I have to question that statement aiyoyo. Only the 'chosen' cases get to be exposed and gain such
high profile status to invite that kind of financial speculation (it's quite rare actually).
Sadly the majority of cases don't even see the light of day. They are
held within a secretive and corrupt system, attracting maybe the same, or
a different kind of speculator. It's a huge market. Children are economic units, commodities. Some of these so called philanthropists are making a lot of money by using children in many different ways. Unsavoury but true.

When I say 'the majority' I mean the majority. This is not just my opinion, nor is it conspricay talk, it's fact. (I can back this up if need be?) I had no idea how bad the situation was until I started digging deeper. I'm no longer 'baffled by the mentality of these rich people with too much time on their hands'.I'm not a religous person but I will say: God bless all those missing children that go unnoticed and never get a mention.

Aaliyah? Lumsford

Not
much news about the other missing girl, the 3 yr old is there? She's
been missing for 3 weeks now? I tried searching (via scroogle) for any
updates but the last 3 hits I get is for this forum. I can't find any recent news. Mind you, I've seen
her forename 'Aaliyah' spelt so many different ways from so many
different sources that it's hard to know what her real christian name is? I thought that could be hindering my search. I'd appreciate any reliable updates for this case.

While it's true to a large extent that the some rich and sick are sadly involved in unsavoury activities involving missing children, in the past we hardly heard of rich supporting PI to interfere with Police work involving missing children. At most if the family themselves could afford it they may hire PI on the side on the quiet.

But nowadays we have mccanns and their series of expensive bogus PIs. Now we have Lisa Irwin's parents who are neither in the same social class as the mccanns nor having the same chain connections a wealthy public personnel has got an dodgy qualified PI involved in the search for Lisa. Motive in Madeleine case is one thing. Purpose in Lisa's case seems another thing. In the former the parents were knowingly involved in the PI scam while in the latter the PI was probably forced on Irwins. But, both cases have a wealthy person willing to finance the PIs - that is my point. Why the rich are willing to do that is what is baffling me. What would be their ulterior motive? BK's motive cant be noble because of his direct involvement in the series of dodgy hires and tampering with witnesses, but what about the lisa's PI supporter? Is that for a noble or selfish (promote one's name) reason?

aiyoyo wrote:

Daisy wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:


Why is it in nearly every child missing case there is always a wealthy supporter willing to finance non qualified PI to interfere with Police investigation. What is the whole point when the police wont recognise the work of the PI or work with the PI? More to the point what can a PI without any credential or experience do that the Police can't?

These wealthy supporter just want to promote their name more like. It's baffling rich people mentality these days...they have more money than sense and too much time on their hands - that the trouble. If not that, then some idiots claiming to be experts will come along to criticise Police or prosecutor handling of forensics evidence and get the perpetrator off.

I have to question that statement aiyoyo. Only the 'chosen' cases get to be exposed and gain such
high profile status to invite that kind of financial speculation (it's quite rare actually).
Sadly the majority of cases don't even see the light of day. They are
held within a secretive and corrupt system, attracting maybe the same, or
a different kind of speculator. It's a huge market. Children are economic units, commodities. Some of these so called philanthropists are making a lot of money by using children in many different ways. Unsavoury but true.

When I say 'the majority' I mean the majority. This is not just my opinion, nor is it conspricay talk, it's fact. (I can back this up if need be?) I had no idea how bad the situation was until I started digging deeper. I'm no longer 'baffled by the mentality of these rich people with too much time on their hands'.I'm not a religous person but I will say: God bless all those missing children that go unnoticed and never get a mention.

Aaliyah? Lumsford

Not
much news about the other missing girl, the 3 yr old is there? She's
been missing for 3 weeks now? I tried searching (via scroogle) for any
updates but the last 3 hits I get is for this forum. I can't find any recent news. Mind you, I've seen
her forename 'Aaliyah' spelt so many different ways from so many
different sources that it's hard to know what her real christian name is? I thought that could be hindering my search. I'd appreciate any reliable updates for this case.

While it's true to a large extent that the some rich and sick are sadly involved in unsavoury activities involving missing children, in the past we hardly heard of rich supporting PI to interfere with Police work involving missing children. At most if the family themselves could afford it they may hire PI on the side on the quiet.

But nowadays we have mccanns and their series of expensive bogus PIs. Now we have Lisa Irwin's parents who are neither in the same social class as the mccanns nor having the same chain connections a wealthy public personnel has got an dodgy qualified PI involved in the search for Lisa. Motive in Madeleine case is one thing. Purpose in Lisa's case seems another thing. In the former the parents were knowingly involved in the PI scam while in the latter the PI was probably forced on Irwins. But, both cases have a wealthy person willing to finance the PIs - that is my point. Why the rich are willing to do that is what is baffling me. What would be their ulterior motive? BK's motive cant be noble because of his direct involvement in the series of dodgy hires and tampering with witnesses, but what about the lisa's PI supporter? Is that for a noble or selfish (promote one's name) reason?

I understand your point now. You raise some very interesting questions that I need to think about.

@ dragonfly. ta very much [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Edit: the latest update on that link is 8th Oct

@daisy

We certainly have narrowed our focus and we have narrowed our timeline down about the circumstances surrounding this missing child."
Investigators say it's helped them narrow down the persons of interest list, and confirms the thoughts that it is either a murder, a concealment, or an abduction. One or more people may be involved in her disappearance, and they could face a variety of charges

"A conspiracy, it could be, it could be but I'm not ruling that in, I'm not ruling that out, but I certainly can't rule that out right now;" Said Killeen. "Both federal and state crimes right now we're looking at."

FBI Special Agent Killeen says that investigators do not believe any other children are in harms way.

They won't comment on if there are any suspects, but they say the persons of interest list has also shortened.

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She has learned her lessons well at the Susan Smith School of Drama.

Thanks once again dragonfly. I think I understand why it's so low profile now. Also, not much $'s to be made out this case I guess.

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There's a mention of the McCanns starting at 17.54.

This is getting more and more like the McCanns every day.

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It didn't take long for this story to start "raising suspicion".

Four years of questionable activities by the McCanns and their acquaintances have still yet to raise suspicion by our own government, police and media.

It'll be interesting to see how Lisa's parents are treated should it turn out that they had something to do with her disappearance.

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It didn't take long for this story to start "raising suspicion".

Four years of questionable activities by the McCanns and their acquaintances have still yet to raise suspicion by our own government, police and media.

It'll be interesting to see how Lisa's parents are treated should it turn out that they had something to do with her disappearance.

In the appeal:
please put her in a place of safety
she needs to be with her family
anyone who has any information
(the phrasing of the above is clearly copied from the McCanns)

in the abduction:
the window
three mobiles
time of putting to bed moved to 6.40 (from about 10)
most unusual MO for a burglar or an abductor, more so for one who appears to be both

strategy:
cuddly toy
find Lisa fund
family spokesperson
private detective
happy photographs
beautiful Lisa - everybody loved her

And so on - I'd put money on it being a hoax and will give the proceeds to Amaral.

Right. Very smelly

If it is a hoax then I pray the baby is still alive somewhere and they're not just trying to distract from her death like the McCanns.

@Madge, I am afraid they do. They seem copy cats to me. But they don't have the same "tools" the McCanns have and I feel that we will learn the truth much sooner.
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Scores of FBI agents descend on house where Baby Lisa's parents are staying and search it after mother admits she was 'blackout' drunk the night infant vanished
Parents hire celebrity lawyer Joe Tacopina while maintaining their innocence
Deborah Bradley admits she had been drinking before her daughter went missing
She also changed story about the time she last saw the child
Handyman Johnny Tanko questioned after unrelated arrest


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I'm just back from New York and watched this story unfolding on the news with great interest.

Nancy Grace, who is currently participating in the current series of Dancing with the Stars, is a legal commentator and former prosecuter. I watched her tear apart Lisa's mothers story, she doesn't believe she is innocent and she isn't afraid to say so. More importantly, she isn't being stopped from saying so.

I wondered if she has had any interest in the McCann case?

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Yes she has. She said the Maddy story was preposterous.

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Great summary of case by pat brown.

The basic hurdles parents must clear these days to keep the public faith in them include:
Real tears: Deborah clearly had tears in many interviews; Jeremy, no.
Strong emotion: Deborah, yes, Jeremy, no.
Nice house, well kept: yes
Good looking baby: yes
Charming photos and video: yes
Willingness to speak in the media: yes, but then refused to do local media, only national. Made it seem like a desire to be famous might be at play
Willingness to talk to the police: yes, until they stopped. Then they started again, only now police say they are not answering all the questions
Pass the polygraph: Deborah says she failed; Jeremy didn't take one.
Consistent story: Deborah has changed the time frame and now claims she was drunk; Jeremy originally said he checked the kids first and now says he talked to Deborah first
Crime scene has visible signs of abduction: There is only a slightly opened window and left- unlocked door which does not prove an abduction occurred
Parents show responsible behavior: Deborah now states it is okay for her to be drunk while caring for the children
Suspicious strangers have been lurking around: So far there has only been a homeless handyman who is said to have been cleared
Police not focusing on parents: The police are clearly heavily focusing on the parents
Not lawyering up: They now have Joran van der Sloot's lawyer which may be smart but makes the them look like they need a strong defense.
Not having things about the case that make you go "hmmm:" Deborah has stated that her children heard some strange noises but she has never asked them about what they heard and when because she doesn't want to upset them. Another thing that has bugged me is that Deborah has called her child "Baby Lisa" in television interviews; this is a name given by the media to identify the story and not something a mother usually calls her own child. Then, the "drunk/blackout" story came out after the parents got a lawyer and one wonders if this is a defense strategy for court or a way to excuse Deborah from answering any more police questions about what happened that night. Finally, Deborah changing the time she last saw her daughter (put her to bed) seems like a way to take emphasis off the later time, a time that her sons may have heard something and that Mom doesn't want to acknowledge. Oh, and Deborah also said she thought she would be arrested which is very odd unless she is aware there is more evidence implicating her than we know.

It's like a lot of these checkpoints are straight from t he McCann model on how to keep public faith , and money , rolling in.




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As if Shannon Matthews case wasn't bad enough, we now have Baby Lisa. It's time the McCanns fessed up to their crimes to prevent more children being victims of copycat faked abductions.

The phrase "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" comes to mind here.

happychick wrote:Yes she has. She said the Maddy story was preposterous.

She's right, of course.

Thanks for the link. :)

SO...has kate mccann become an icon parent on how to make money on the back of your child's disappearance?

Lisa's case is eerily and spookily similar to the mccanns.

As the story unfolds it does not bode well for Lisa. I think its another fishy case of faked abduction.
One or both her parents were involved in her disappearance, likely she dead from an accident caused by Deborah in Jeremy's absent and they colluded in the cover up.

Snipped "KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A key part of the investigation into the disappearance of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin has been police search dogs that the media has been asked not to show while they work.
The FBI specifically requested that these dogs not be photographed while they work. The agency has gone as far as even restricting news helicopters from flying near where the dogs are working."

Snipped "The FBI said the search dogs were not from Kansas City and were brought it from elsewhere. They have been used several times in the search for Irwin, who has been missing since Oct. 3."

If you watch the video near the end you will see one of 2 spaniel (is it Keela?)

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Now the cadaver dogs have got a hit on the floor next to the mothers bed. :please:

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The search warrant issued to use the dogs as well as recover other items is subject to the Sunshine law in Missouri and is available to the public.

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I think it is time for the mother to come clean...........................

I wonder if Gerry will reassure Lisa's mum that the dogs are unreliable?

It speaks volumes doesn't it that the McCanns have made no public comments on this case? No sending of good wishes and hopes that the baby will be found safe. I guess that they know that, in such circumstances, the chances of the parents not being involved are exremely remote.

Well Happychick, apparently her lawyer has said she is working on a response to this news. Maybe she is on the phone to the McCann's as we speak.

I just hope the FBI checked if anyone has ever died in that house before they sent the dogs in.