CCTV in Paraiso restaurant

by Gillyspot 18.06.11 13:38

Something has been bugging me for a while regarding the above

If the CCTV was working between 17:31 and 18:36 as shown below then why hasn't any later footage when the T9 were supposed eating etc been release (or does it even exist)?

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If the PJ have this footage then this would make it very clear to them who was (or not) telling the truth in their statements and possibly even the words KM used when she rushed there after her 10pm check.

Does anyone know anything about this?

by Guest 18.06.11 13:48

honeybunch wrote:Something has been bugging me for a while regarding the above

If the CCTV was working between 17:31 and 18:36 as shown below then why hasn't any later footage when the T9 were supposed eating etc been release (or does it even exist)?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If the PJ have this footage then this would make it very clear to them who was (or not) telling the truth in their statements and possibly even the words KM used when she rushed there after her 10pm check.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Hi honeybunch,

The Paraiso restaurant is not the same one as the tapas restaurant. IIRC the Paraiso is situated on the beach?

by Gillyspot 18.06.11 14:04

Thanks for that. I must have got them mixed up.

by jd 02.06.12 3:09

From fiona paynes RI 10th April 2008

1485
'And the next question is, where were you exactly between six pm to seven pm' I know you have'.

Reply
'Six to seven. So, from six to ten past six, I would have been at the, erm, the Paradiso Restaurant, or whatever it's called, on the beach'.

1485
'Yeah'.

Reply
'Erm, you know, and then we walked back up, so I'd say that would take ten or fifteen minutes. Then we went straight to the tennis courts area, the play area with the children, erm, and we would have stayed there, you know, for fifteen, twenty minutes, before going up to the apartment. Erm, and we went straight from the play area to the apartments'.

1485
'Yeah. And so, what you are saying is, you were at the Paradiso until ten past six''

Reply
'Yeah'.

1485
'Then it took you fifteen minutes to walk up''

Reply
'Yeah'.

485
'So you would be up to the tennis courts''

Reply
'We were certainly there by half past, I would say'.

00.06.31
1485
'By half past''

Reply
'Half six, yeah'.

1485
'Watched the tennis for about fifteen minutes, that takes to you to quarter to''

Reply
'Yeah, I'd say, yeah, between fifteen, twenty, twenty-five minutes, that sort of time, but I certainly would have left before seven to go back and start bathing the kids'.

At 6.36pm she was 'still in the Paradiso getting ready to leave....Add 5 mins to actually leave, add the 15 min walk back, then add 15/20/25 min at the tennis courts. This would make it 7.15pm at the very earliest she would be back in the apartment. At 6.30pm she was no where near the tennis courts
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14 12_VOLUME_XIIa_Processo_Page_3273

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by russiandoll 02.06.12 13:21

oh what a tangled web. Did not Sr Cristavao say that the rogatories were of course to get more info from the tapas lot, but there were 2 they were really interested in?
The Paynes were the Mcs closest friends, and I would not be surprised if it was this pair the PJ was most interested in .
With this lie and the one about DPs visit to 5a....

by **PeterMac** 02.06.12 13:27

apartment to beach restaurant is just over 400m. Even with children in tow 15 minutes is a long time - 1200 m /hr, three quarters of a mile an hour ?

by jd 02.06.12 16:42

russiandoll wrote: oh what a tangled web. Did not Sr Cristavao say that the rogatories were of course to get more info from the tapas lot, but there were 2 they were really interested in?
The Paynes were the Mcs closest friends, and I would not be surprised if it was this pair the PJ was most interested in .
With this lie and the one about DPs visit to 5a....

the paynes - 2 so called professional doctors where one cannot put a coherent sentence together, the other lying her head off. then the mother who seems oblivious to it all!

by russiandoll 04.09.12 17:11

this is interesting
from the Daily Mirror...

"Other witnesses said Gerry McCann appeared to be “the perfect dad.” Waiters at the Paraiso beach restaurant who saw Madeleine just hours before she vanished, told the Daily Mirror Mr McCann was a “devoted” father as he bounced the youngster up and down on his shoulders."

McCanns only went to the beach once acc. to their statements, so the waiters are either confused about the date, because afternoon of 3rd May the McCanns and their children were absent from the afternoon beach trip...
[ as was young Ella O Brien, who was strangely left at the creche while all Mums except Kate took their children ; ROB left beach to collect Ella late afternoon and returned to the beach with her].
Or confused about the identity of father and child...correct about the date.
I wonder if this was the father and child noticed by the Paraiso waiters?

The date seems unlikely for an error, the waiters seem certain about an early evening time, whereas the McCanns had their beach trip ruined by bad weather one morning earlier in the week.
How would any waiters at the beach bar be familiar enough with the McCann family if they only went once? Other men in the group were there sailing and windsurfing though, they would be remembered.
I am sure they have seen Ella not Maddie.

by russiandoll 04.09.12 17:22

and there is more....
However, later they saw a different side to Gerry McCann. He appeared disorientated, isolated and afraid. One waiter said “The next time I saw him was about midnight and it couldn’t have been more different.”
“I went out for a cigarette and I saw a man alone. He was desperate. He was crying and just screaming out her name over and over again. He was completely out of it.”
Another waiter said “It was around midnight and he was on his own and in a terrible state. He was weeping and screaming out for his daughter. It was awful to see. He was a man lost – totally alone.”
Mr McCann was frantically searching a patch of wasteland by the Praia da Luz beach, screaming “Madeleine, Madeleine, Madeleine, where are you?” he said.
After giving evidence to the police, another witness at the restaurant said “He seemed like the perfect dad, always giving her hugs and lots of attention.”
“Gerry spent 80 per cent of his time with the little girl, playing on the beach while the mum spent a long time trying to feed the twins who were in high chairs either side of her in the restaurant.”
“It is so upsetting to know a few hours after that she had gone.”
A waiter who served the children their meals of spaghetti bolognese and fillet of fish recalled, “They made you smile, full of fun and very happy holiday moods.”
According to staff, the family and three couples arrived around 5 pm. “They were at the restaurant for over an hour and most of the time Gerry was playing with Maddy on the beach in front.”
“He took her down to the beach on his shoulders time and again. Each time she was giggling and bouncing up and down. On the beach he pushed her on the swings and gave her loads of hugs and kisses – all you could hear was Daddy, daddy, daddy.”
“He really did seem a perfect dad. I can’t see how he had anything to do with her disappearance. He’d have to be a superb actor.”
“Most of the adults were on the beach with the other children but kept coming and going. Kate was at the restaurant table feeding the twins in baby chairs. It took a while. I felt a bit sorry for her.”

this does not tally at all with the events as described by the group in their statements, which place everyone except the McCanns at the beach/ beach restaurant. There are 3 couples, we have Paynes O Briens and Oldfields..... the evidence mentions other children...
and ref to a family of 2 adults and 3 children inc twins...
Any thoughts?

by jd 04.09.12 17:22

On the afternoon of 3rd May, Maddie and Ella were swimming/diving with Cat Baker. The mccanns were never at the Paraiso beach restaurant, they were playing tennis with Dan Stuk having a private lesson. The waiter is confused (or paid) to say it was gerry mccann, there are no mccanns on the CCTV images and these do not lie unlike human beings

by **tigger** 04.09.12 17:26

jd wrote:
russiandoll wrote: oh what a tangled web. Did not Sr Cristavao say that the rogatories were of course to get more info from the tapas lot, but there were 2 they were really interested in?
The Paynes were the Mcs closest friends, and I would not be surprised if it was this pair the PJ was most interested in .
With this lie and the one about DPs visit to 5a....

the paynes - 2 so called professional doctors where one cannot put a coherent sentence together, the other lying her head off. then the mother who seems oblivious to it all!

Phone records for the night of 3/5/07:
Tweet from Dewi Lennard: Strange that Webster and Payne were silent for between 75 and 90 hours, and then happened to switch on their mobiles at 1930, 2000 on 3/5. DW and DP got ready for events which they were expecting.
OTOH, Oldfield switched on post-event at 2251, SMSing +talking w Rachel

by jd 04.09.12 17:27

russiandoll wrote: and there is more....
However, later they saw a different side to Gerry McCann. He appeared disorientated, isolated and afraid. One waiter said “The next time I saw him was about midnight and it couldn’t have been more different.”
“I went out for a cigarette and I saw a man alone. He was desperate. He was crying and just screaming out her name over and over again. He was completely out of it.”
Another waiter said “It was around midnight and he was on his own and in a terrible state. He was weeping and screaming out for his daughter. It was awful to see. He was a man lost – totally alone.”
Mr McCann was frantically searching a patch of wasteland by the Praia da Luz beach, screaming “Madeleine, Madeleine, Madeleine, where are you?” he said.
After giving evidence to the police, another witness at the restaurant said “He seemed like the perfect dad, always giving her hugs and lots of attention.”
“Gerry spent 80 per cent of his time with the little girl, playing on the beach while the mum spent a long time trying to feed the twins who were in high chairs either side of her in the restaurant.”
“It is so upsetting to know a few hours after that she had gone.”
A waiter who served the children their meals of spaghetti bolognese and fillet of fish recalled, “They made you smile, full of fun and very happy holiday moods.”
According to staff, the family and three couples arrived around 5 pm. “They were at the restaurant for over an hour and most of the time Gerry was playing with Maddy on the beach in front.”
“He took her down to the beach on his shoulders time and again. Each time she was giggling and bouncing up and down. On the beach he pushed her on the swings and gave her loads of hugs and kisses – all you could hear was Daddy, daddy, daddy.”
“He really did seem a perfect dad. I can’t see how he had anything to do with her disappearance. He’d have to be a superb actor.”
“Most of the adults were on the beach with the other children but kept coming and going. Kate was at the restaurant table feeding the twins in baby chairs. It took a while. I felt a bit sorry for her.”

this does not tally at all with the events as described by the group in their statements, which place everyone except the McCanns at the beach/ beach restaurant. There are 3 couples, we have Paynes O Briens and Oldfields..... the evidence mentions other children...
and ref to a family of 2 adults and 3 children inc twins...
Any thoughts?

The CCTV images show no mccanns at the restaurant, they were never there they were playing tennis as backed by Dan Stuk too. The Tapas statements do not say the mccanns were there either, the only ones saying the mccanns were there is this 'waiter' though is this statement in the PJ files? Another Olive Press made up story

"On the beach he pushed her on the swings".....swings on a beach????

by jd 04.09.12 17:29

tigger wrote:
jd wrote:
russiandoll wrote: oh what a tangled web. Did not Sr Cristavao say that the rogatories were of course to get more info from the tapas lot, but there were 2 they were really interested in?
The Paynes were the Mcs closest friends, and I would not be surprised if it was this pair the PJ was most interested in .
With this lie and the one about DPs visit to 5a....

the paynes - 2 so called professional doctors where one cannot put a coherent sentence together, the other lying her head off. then the mother who seems oblivious to it all!

Phone records for the night of 3/5/07:
Tweet from Dewi Lennard: Strange that Webster and Payne were silent for between 75 and 90 hours, and then happened to switch on their mobiles at 1930, 2000 on 3/5. DW and DP got ready for events which they were expecting.
OTOH, Oldfield switched on post-event at 2251, SMSing +talking w Rachel

I thought DP was playing tennis until 20.00 hours while fiona payne went running...this is why they were late at the Tapas bar

by Guest 04.09.12 17:36

jd wrote: [...]
I thought DP was playing tennis until 20.00 hours while fiona payne went running...this is why they were late at the Tapas bar

***
I may be living on another planet, but I've never thought about running half an hour before I am due for dinner ...

by russiandoll 04.09.12 17:48

I never believed the McCanns were at the beach at that time.
As I do not believe Maddie was alive on 3rd I don't believe she was at the beach with Catriona Baker that afternoon.
I do believe that Ella went to creche and not to the beach until later for a reason.
Can you think why ROB would drop his eldest off at creche while MO supervised his own and O Brien's younger daughter, rather than all 3 girls stayed in OB apartment after lunch, to include Ella on the beach trip from the start?
For some reason OB took Ella to creche then had the incovenience of leaving the beach to pick her up after a couple of hours ....then take her to the beach.

by russiandoll 04.09.12 17:53

hi jd...re the below from you

The CCTV images show no mccanns at the restaurant, they were never there they were playing tennis as backed by Dan Stuk too. The Tapas statements do not say the mccanns were there either, the only ones saying the mccanns were there is this 'waiter' though is this statement in the PJ files? Another Olive Press made up story

The Mirror stated that the waiter gave evidence to the police.....so I will check the files

btw I am interested in the Ella/ Maddie connection because I believe there is one.

by **tigger** 04.09.12 17:53

russiandoll wrote: and there is more....
However, later they saw a different side to Gerry McCann. He appeared disorientated, isolated and afraid. One waiter said “The next time I saw him was about midnight and it couldn’t have been more different.”
“I went out for a cigarette and I saw a man alone. He was desperate. He was crying and just screaming out her name over and over again. He was completely out of it.”
Another waiter said “It was around midnight and he was on his own and in a terrible state. He was weeping and screaming out for his daughter. It was awful to see. He was a man lost – totally alone.”
Mr McCann was frantically searching a patch of wasteland by the Praia da Luz beach, screaming “Madeleine, Madeleine, Madeleine, where are you?” he said.
After giving evidence to the police, another witness at the restaurant said “He seemed like the perfect dad, always giving her hugs and lots of attention.”
“Gerry spent 80 per cent of his time with the little girl, playing on the beach while the mum spent a long time trying to feed the twins who were in high chairs either side of her in the restaurant.”
“It is so upsetting to know a few hours after that she had gone.”
A waiter who served the children their meals of spaghetti bolognese and fillet of fish recalled, “They made you smile, full of fun and very happy holiday moods.”
According to staff, the family and three couples arrived around 5 pm. “They were at the restaurant for over an hour and most of the time Gerry was playing with Maddy on the beach in front.”
“He took her down to the beach on his shoulders time and again. Each time she was giggling and bouncing up and down. On the beach he pushed her on the swings and gave her loads of hugs and kisses – all you could hear was Daddy, daddy, daddy.”
“He really did seem a perfect dad. I can’t see how he had anything to do with her disappearance. He’d have to be a superb actor.”
“Most of the adults were on the beach with the other children but kept coming and going. Kate was at the restaurant table feeding the twins in baby chairs. It took a while. I felt a bit sorry for her.”

this does not tally at all with the events as described by the group in their statements, which place everyone except the McCanns at the beach/ beach restaurant. There are 3 couples, we have Paynes O Briens and Oldfields..... the evidence mentions other children...
and ref to a family of 2 adults and 3 children inc twins...
Any thoughts?

If this particular waiter was representative of the average Joe Public, I'd expect him to come out with this kind of tale, especially when prompted by an avid tabloid reporter with a ready-made tear jerking story. Only in the early days mind, once the waiter found that not all was well in the state of PdL, he'd have modified his praises somewhat.

I also thought - in any case - that the CCTV evidence of the Paraiso Bar and Gerry dancing with Madeleine, turned out to be a different family altogether. French I seem to remember - I can't find it for the moment.

by russiandoll 04.09.12 17:58

You know what they say Tigger, confusion is good! The waiter talks of an English-speaking child shouting Daddy.
And the family being with the other 3 couples. No mention of DW though....and she was there acc to the group.

by russiandoll 04.09.12 18:18

Cat Nanny's statement

On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming. Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis.

I gather the 15 25 should be 17.25 ?

Ella went swimming with Maddie and the rest of the group and was taken later to the beach by ROB. I wonder why the McCanns did not text ROB and ask him to take Maddy too.......Kate said she had no idea the others were planning a beach trip that afternoon. Is that not just the thing that their mobiles would have been used for if they did their own thing daytimes? No invite from their friends? Not credible imo.
Did Kate and Gerry interrupt their morning and afternoon tennis to go and watch and photograph their eldest having fun doing either of these activities? Water based and supervised by whom I wonder, apart from the creche workers?

by jd 04.09.12 18:22

russiandoll wrote: I never believed the McCanns were at the beach at that time.
As I do not believe Maddie was alive on 3rd I don't believe she was at the beach with Catriona Baker that afternoon.
I do believe that Ella went to creche and not to the beach until later for a reason.
Can you think why ROB would drop his eldest off at creche while MO supervised his own and O Brien's younger daughter, rather than all 3 girls stayed in OB apartment after lunch, to include Ella on the beach trip from the start?
For some reason OB took Ella to creche then had the incovenience of leaving the beach to pick her up after a couple of hours ....then take her to the beach.

This is exactly what I am thinking. Especially why leaving the beach to pick Ella up after a couple of hours ....then take her to the beach! Maybe Ella was the 'Maddie'? There is only a month or less between ages

I couldn't find any statement from the 'waiter' in the files or any indication of one. Though considering the CCTV images I would have thought they got waiter statements too, maybe they have been withheld?

by jd 04.09.12 18:26

russiandoll wrote: Cat Nanny's statement

On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming. Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis.

if Ella had been on the beach, why did she not just stay ther with her mother, [ Cat says she saw Jane] instead of returning to creche to be picked up at 4.30 by her father ?!
Maddie returned to the club.........why not say who she was with if she was under creche's care at that time? Cat Baker says WE sailed, so if she did not take the children back to creche, who did?

so much confusion here, there has to be an error in the time she recalls Kate picking up Maddie from the Tapas area, sometime between half past 3 and 6 pm.

This was just after the last photo was taken, Maddie then went to creche swimming/diving in her pink smock dress!

Cat Baker I think is saying she saw 'David and Jane' in the morning at the beach as the kids sailed in the morning....confusion is good!

by jd 04.09.12 18:32

Dan Stuk statement 8th may 2007 ...

Questioned about the class times of G&K McCann on last Thursday, 3 May, he related that the mother of MBM had a group class at 09-10h00 conducted by Georgina; the father had a group class at 10-11h00 conducted by him.

Later, at 15-15h45, the couple had a private class, together, conducted by him - and finally, GM participated in the men's social tennis event at 18-19h00.

by russiandoll 04.09.12 18:35

there is mention of a Miguel Matias on Pamalam..but I can't find a statement in the files either.

MIGUEL MATIAS (Manager of the Paraiso Restaurant)
A restaurant manager in Praia da Luz said the family were at the beach at around 5pm, while the couple insist Mr McCann was playing tennis as Mrs McCann gave the children supper at the Ocean Club resort, where they were staying. Miguel Matias, who runs the beachside Paraiso restaurant said he saw Mr McCann dancing with his daughter as the family ate a meal on the terrace in the early evening. Several days later he contacted police and handed over CCTV footage: "We would not have handed the CCTV if we were not sure. They have taken it as evidence."

does not sound quite the same as the waiter I quoted earlier, no other families mentioned.

jd look at the creche entries for Ella O Brien. strange, done in a hurry and strewn with errors.

by russiandoll 04.09.12 18:39

quote jd

Later, at 15-15h45, the couple had a private class, together, conducted by him - and finally, GM participated in the men's social tennis event at 18-19h00
so thats them accounted for for 45 minutes.
What were the pair doing between 4pm and 6 pm?
DP is unaccounted for that afternoon, cant be placed anywhere firmly.

by **tigger** 04.09.12 19:25

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The paraiso CCTV pictures.

by **Nina** 04.09.12 20:21

Just an aside but this talk of the creche children going for a swim/dive. How many children were there, how many staff in attendance. I am remembering here even in warm weather when a child comes out of the water and the need to wrap in a large towel, and rub wet hair, and remove wet clothes and redress in dry ones. Who carried all the towels? Who carried all the dry clothes. Which child was lucky and was dried and dressed first who was the unlucky one left till last with chattering teeth and blue legs and icy cold fingers and damp straggled hair?
Or were non of them dried undressed and redressed in dry clothes?

by jd 04.09.12 20:55

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Cat Baker signed the creche sheet May 2nd for Madeleine and in the afternoon there is a signature for Kate Healy? Cat Baker, Thursday 3rd May, signature once again where a parents should be, signed in for Ella O'Brien.

There was ONLY one child in the group who could have taken the place of Madeleine and that was Ella O'Brien.

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by dottyaussie 26.05.16 13:33

I have been thinking the whole Paraiso outing was a bit odd also. Firstly if the whole group had managed to arrange to go and Jane and Rachel had seen Kate & Gerry having their tennis lesson why were Kate and Gerry not told about the arrangements? I remember Kate saying she was quite upset that they hadn't been invited.

From Jane Tanner's statement

“He was on the beach, yeah. Erm, so, yeah, we played with the kids for probably about an hour and a half on the beach. And then Russell went to get, pick Ella up from the Kids Club and he brought her back down, back down to the beach”. 4078 “Was that the normal time that they finished?” Reply “Erm, I think it was about five. It would have been before, because they used to walk them up for tea, so because we were going to give them all tea on the beach we didn’t, we made sure it was before they left, but it would have probably have been about, just before five I think”.

The creche records show that Ella was signed out at 4.30 by Cat Nanny not Russell.

“Okay. Go on then. So Russell goes back to fetch Ella?” Reply “Yeah, and then I remember him coming back down, erm, to the beach. I think she was on his shoulders. I don’t know why I remember that, but I remember him”.

But, no, I had an orange juice and we fed the kids and then they played in front of the, erm, tut, in front of the restaurant there was like a slide and swings and they were playing on there”. 20.16 4078 “Is that actually on the beach then?” Reply “Yeah, more or less, yeah, it’s sort of right on the edge and then it goes onto the beach, so the swings are actually on the beach, a bit of it.

It seems like the waiter in his statement is actually describing Russell & Ella not Gerry & Madeleine. There are quite a few people mistaking Ella for Madeleine !

Also looking at the CCTV Jane arrives at 17.31.35 then is leaving again between 17.31.41 and 17.31.44 she arrives back at 17.38.46 Where did she go for 7 minutes ?