The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™️ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann. Please note that your username should be different from your email address!

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

(Please note: if you register with the sole intention of disrupting or spamming, please don't expect to be a member for too long.)

Many thanks,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Paraiso Beach Bar to Tennis Courts confusion

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Paraiso Beach Bar to Tennis Courts confusion

Post by Kepharel on 23.07.13 11:08

Not sure whether this post should belong with the David Smith Thread, but remarks on there contain a sort of subset of this topic. This period on 3rd May has been the most difficult for me to pin down because points of reference here, between 6:15 pm and 8:00 pm are non existent.

If you are Russell O’Brien you left the beach bar at 6:00 pm, but if you are Dianne Webster it was 6:15 pm. If you are Matthew Oldfield you time warp from getting to the tennis at 7:00pm, back to your apartment at any time between 6:40 pm and 6:50 pm, putting you at the beach bar presumably at 6:30 pm or thereabouts. 

If you are Rachael Oldfield you get to see the boys leave the beach bar at between 6:30 pm and 6:45 pm and follow on about 10 to fifteen minutes later, presumably putting you at the tennis courts between 6:45 pm to 7:00 pm

If you are a woman you watched the tennis with kids for between say 6:30 pm and 7:00 pm, unless you are Rachael Oldfield when you stay there ‘til about 7:20 pm, because that’s when you see Gerry McCann leaving.  That, or it may have been a life size cardboard cut out because Gerry says he left at 7:00 pm (either that or the 7:00 pm is a typo).

If you are a man you did not say anything meaningful to your spouses watching you; maybe the reason they got bored and went back to their apartments with kids in tow.

If you are David Payne you can remember seeing the vision of Kate and her kids at 6:30 pm, but have nothing to say about bathing your own kids with your mother-in-law a mere ten minutes after you arrived.  But having seen Kate and kids at around 6:30pm (DP) when you were also at the tennis court (GM) it should be a breeze to bathe your own children at 7:10 pm (DW) while arriving back at the tennis courts at 7:00 pm (GM) and playing tennis. Maybe the inter-dimensional travel blinded you, leaving you confused as to which universe you were in at the time, into seeing Gerry McCann on his way to the apartment some short time before 7:00 pm (GM)

If you are Gerry McCann you’ve helped bathe the children and legged it to the tennis courts at 6:00 pm and yet having seen David Payne at the courts at 6:30 pm a mere 45 minutes from when you left the apartment are worried enough about Kate to ask him to look in on them (DP returns to tennis courts at 7:00pm so presumably leaves to check at 6:45 pm))  .
And so it goes on…… I would offer the following, and then get on with a few other things in my life I have been neglecting lately winkwink :

Rogatory Russell O’Brien

It was a warm day, good afternoon I recall that I went up to the social tennis around 18:00hours with Matt I think David went to the apartment and then up to Gerry’s.  I played tennis for around an hour to an hour and a half, Dan the tennis coach was also present, as were some other male guests and Gerry we played a mixture of singles and doubles.

Dianne Webster PJ Interview 11th May 2007

Concerning the day yesterday, she went to the beach with the children, her son-in-law and her daughter. They arrived there at around 3.45pm and left at around 6.15pm to go to the tennis courts where she stayed until 7pm. The informant then went to the apartment with the small children and ten minutes later, her son-in-law, David, joined them. With her son-in-law's help, they bathed the children.

David Payne Rogatory
Err I, as I say I’m not sure you know what happened to Matt and Russell at that particular moment but I remember then you know I went over to see err Gerry at the err you know tennis courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we’d, you know I’d come, come back to play tennis and err Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright …..So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry’s apartment …..the time that we’ve got that I was you know going to Kate’s about six thirty, ……
then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he’d, he’d played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan …..and then it was getting a bit late so err we, you know we left the tennis courts, went back to our respective partners to get ready to go out, you know
Matthew Oldfield Rogatory
Reply 'It was men's social. Erm, so we went back up, erm, back to, well I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, erm, and the other guys went to get their stuff. Erm, and I think Dave said that he'd been to the apartment, but I don't know that for definite, that's just something I think has come out, I didn't know anything about that. So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the, erm, the coach, whose name I can't remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, erm, was playing to make up the numbers. And so we waited and watched for a little while, so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven, so maybe sort of quarter to or twenty to or ten to seven we went down to the court.
Jane Tanner Rogatory
4078    “I’m struggling to remember as well”.
 Reply    “Yeah, it’s not fair that they’ve changed the time for us and then they don’t go.  So they went back up at that point and then we followed up probably about quarter of an hour later with all the kids and we went to the play area by the tennis courts and had a, you know, we probably stayed there for about half an hour or so.  At that point, I’m not, I can’t say how long that was, about half an hour”.
 4078    “Were Madeleine and the”.
 Reply    “No, they weren’t there.  No, they weren’t there.  Yeah, they’d most, but Gerry was there, he was playing, he was playing tennis”.
4078    “Right”.
 Reply    “Yeah.  Erm, so, yeah, we stayed there for a bit and then took the children back and got them, you know, bathed and blah blah and got them ready for bed, but that was probably, by that stage that was probably, erm, half seven’ish probably I’d say, by the time we, we went back, if not maybe even a bit later, I’m not sure, but around then, around the seven o’clock mark”…… Erm, so, yeah, I think Russell came back, I think they were supposed to finish at half seven and it was around, I think they had a bit of, but it went on a bit longer, so they were probably back about, he was probably back about quarter to eight.
Gerry McCann PJ Interview 100507
That they bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18H00 for a tennis game only for men, at which were: DAN, tennis instructor; JULIAN, with whom he had played tennis several times; and CURTIS, with whom he had also played.
------ During the afternoon of that day the rest of the group members, including the children, were at the beach, [they] having returned at 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, to which [entreaty] he did not accede as he had already been plying for about an hour and had to go back to to his wife. Nevertheless, RUSSELL, DAVID and MATHEW stayed to play.
At 19H00, he made his way to the apartment, finding KATE and the children playing on the sofa. About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on MADELEINE'S bed to read a story. At 19H30, the twins were already in their respective cots and MADELEINE in the bed next to the bedroom door. He does not know if they were asleep but from the silence he presumed that they were. As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.
Rachael Oldfield Rogatory
erm so Matt, Dave and Russell headed back up to the apartments, I think that, it must have been about half six, quarter to seven, something like that, erm and you know we, we kind of followed, I don't know, ten or fifteen minutes later, I think the kids were eating their ice cream and erm, you know we came up after they'd finished, erm so we probably got up there about seven-ish or something, a bit after seven'. 
1578 'And then a short time later, Gerry departed''
 Reply 'Yes'.
1578 'To the apartment to give assistance''
 Reply 'Yeah, mmm yeah'.
1578 'Do you know what time that was''
 Reply 'Erm maybe it was probably, you know maybe about twenty past seven, he didnt really stay, I dont remember him staying that much longer after we arrived there with the children, he obviously played a bit of tennis with the boys and then sort of decided to head off, yeah so its probably about twenty past seven, quarter past seven, something like that'.

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

Back to top Go down

Re: Paraiso Beach Bar to Tennis Courts confusion

Post by tigger on 23.07.13 11:30

Here is a useful topic on Paraiso Beach:

With some more details:

Cat Nanny's statement

On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming. Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis.

Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 47
Join date : 2011-07-20

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum