Irish witness - does this make Jane Tanner a Liar?

Has anyone seen this before?

I first found a link frim an old daily express article (long since whooshed)

"But one Portuguese newspaper reported that employees at the restaurant insisted that only Dr Russell O’Brien, 36, and hospital consultant Matthew Oldfield, 37, left the dinner table that evening. Another witness has come forward to refute the testimony of a third friend Jane Tanner, 36, who told police she saw a man carrying a child rushing from the Ocean Club complex at around 9.15pm on May 3.

Yesterday it was reported in Portugal that a new witness, an unnamed Irishman, told police he was in the same spot as Miss Tanner at the same time and saw no one. He is the second independent witness to dispute her story and police sources said they viewed Miss Tanner’s evidence as “unreliable” because of inconsistencies. Officers are concerned that she apparently changed her version of the sighting.She originally claimed she saw the suspect rushing towards the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz. She told police the child was wrapped in a blanket. A second independent witness reported seeing a similar man with a child in a blanket near the town’s church heading towards the beach. The route he took matches the alleged trail of death discovered by British sniffer dogs who detected the scent of a corpse. But Miss Tanner has now told detectives that the man was heading in a different direction – towards Murat’s home. Police regard her account as one of a series given by the McCanns and their friends to convince them that Madeleine had been kidnapped.

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Have done a bit more searching and found this more complete information.

"A teenager, who was with her family at Ocean Club, saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, the night Madeleine disappeared – but she didn't saw Jane Tanner or a man carrying a child. The girl wasn't in the list of guests, as their presence at Ocean Club wasn't registered with the management. Father and daughter have been in Portugal, recently, to help Policia Judiciaria in the reconstruction of what happened the night of May 3 and to give a formal statement to Police, according to a source close to the case.

Speaking to SOS Madeleine, the Irish teenager confirmed she saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, for a few minutes, near the McCann apartment: “There was only the father of the little girl talking to another man.”

The teenager went out for a cigarette, around the same time Jane Tanner said she saw a man carrying a child. She only mentioned what she saw to her family latter, because she had also to confess the reason why she was there. Since the beginning, Police had some doubts about Jane Tanner statement, as Jeremy Wilkins, a tennis partner of Madeleine's father, told them he only saw Gerry McCann near the apartment.

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YES?

I can't find their statement in the PJ files but they are not complete. Will have a further search though!

This is good work Gillyspot

It's the first time I have seen this. I am stating the obvious but if it could be confirmed it completely destroys Jane Tanner's statement and with it the 'proof' of the abduction and makes Gerry the last person to admit to seeing Madeleine.

The McCanns ought to be grateful that the Portuguese police weren't too efficient.

i agree Miraflores

I vaguely remember this report but it was whoosed and superceded with more smoke and mirror activity. The Smith sighting also, though it received more coverage, eventually slipped under the radar too. I wonder what other snippets of info have been buried?

Not all the files were released by the PJ. I expect that the files held back would contain even more information that would destroy the abduction theory and seal the McCanns fate and the fate of more than a few well placed bigwigs.

Will the files ever be released? By the amount of help offered to K & G it seems very important for a lot of high ranking people that they stay archieved and the truth does not out.

Amaral has hinted he has more up his sleeve I wonder when he will return to the frontline?

Willo wrote:Amaral has hinted he has more up his sleeve I wonder when he will return to the frontline?

Indeed. He must be aware of all the activity in this case yet he keeps quiet. I've lost faith in him tbh.

I'm sorry Hotlips but I don't think we should lose faith in Amaral. He will be working hard on this case still. I'm sure he will offer SY all the help they can get if they ask him and if there is any truth that the review will encompass all angles they will have to listen to him. If they don't I'm sure that Mr Amaral will then reveal more of what he knows.



Or maybe he is waiting to get his own back. Imagine if SY gives the all clear then Amaral produces the final piece of the jigsaw that has been purposely ignored by SY how silly would they look? Revenge would be sweet!

But I don't see Amaral as a vengeful person, he just seeks justice for Madeleine and I'm sure he has promised her in his heart to see it through to the end.



If it is as bigger a cover up as I believe it is, his cautionary approach will be well thought out and will fit with his overall plan. I'm sure we haven't heard the last from this devoted family man whose knowledge of the case is invaluable.

Hi Hotlips( love the name), I think Amaral is playing a waiting game, a bit like the tortoise and the hare, i think he is hoping they will slip up enough to gather evidence rather than jumping in with just tit bits here and there, I think he will be letting them ramble on and on. Imo the Mcann"autobiography" is just another way of Amaral gathering information to be used if there is a court case as a cross reference to what was origionally stated 4 years ago. So we have all proved we can be patient, Dont give up now xx[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Willo and Alfie02, you make some excellent observations in your posts

Martin Kamrava & alfie02

Thank you very much Gilly[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Interesting that on Jane Tanner's statement on 4th May she asserts:

Yesterday the witness did not go to breakfast because she had tennis booked for 09h00. It was her partner who took her daughters for breakfast, having previously taken E**a O'Brien to the Kids Club. E**e O'Brien, who was not feeling well, did not go to her Kids Club room and went with her father to look for the witness. They arrived at about 09h30 having waited for almost 30 minutes for the tennis lesson (8) to have finished.

Why would you leave a child that had been sick the night before alone? Would you not be worried of a repeat of that?

Yet on the Panorama documentary she says.

"I think the starters were about to arrive so I thought oh, I'll go and do a check in sort of 20 minutes or so before last check. So I thought I'll go and do a check before the food arrives"

Apart from not making sense, if your child had been sick the night before would you think "oh, I'll go and go a check"? Not I MUST go and do a check!

Martin Kamrava

I was curious about the reports of the Irish girl who supposedly saw Gerry and Jez talking outside the McCann apartment at around 9.15pm at 9.15pm on Thursday evening thus providing an 'independent' alibi for both of them. But she didn't see Jane Tanner

And I came across this,on Joana's  in the comments section. A deposition from 'T.M.S'. An 11 year old British girl who has lived in Portugal since she was a baby and who gave statements to police about two sightings of 'ugly, disgusting pimple man' spotted outside the McCann apartment, staring at it.  There is no mention of her seeing Jez and Gerry talking, though. So is the Irish witness who saw Gerry and Jez someone else? Or yet another mythical person?!

But what strikes me as really strange coincidence is that the girl has spent masses of time at the apartment from which Madeleine 'was stolen' as her grandmother apparently owned it from 1994 until 2002. So she spent a lot of time there with her mother and knows it inside and out.

(In her statement the girl says she saw Madeleine once during the week on the balcony of the apartment and waved at her in a friendly way.)

What a very, very strange coincidence! 

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Wouldnt Madeleine need to have been standing on something to have the ability to see others from the balcony ?...( if we are talking about the rear of the property ).

HotlipsHealy wrote:

Willo wrote:Amaral has hinted he has more up his sleeve I wonder when he will return to the frontline?

Indeed. He must be aware of all the activity in this case yet he keeps quiet. I've lost faith in him tbh.

A wise man always keeps his cards close to his chest.

An Irish teenager and her father.

The girls spots Gerry McCann & Jez Wilkins outside McCann apartment but does not see Tannerman

News reports on this have been whooshed.


Do we know who this Irish teenager and her father are?

Did they make any further statements?

Bumping this thread as the evidence may have been long forgotten and may be of interest.

I vaguely recall this story at the time. The girl had sneaked outside for a smoke, IIRC, and that was why she didn't initially come forward to report anything, fearing parental reaction.

HotlipsHealy wrote:

Willo wrote:Amaral has hinted he has more up his sleeve I wonder when he will return to the frontline?

Indeed. He must be aware of all the activity in this case yet he keeps quiet. I've lost faith in him tbh.

Why ?  Sorry, but what have most of the world done, but "keep quiet" ?  The child's own parents have stayed quiet.  Those responsible for the crime, involved either wittingly or unwittingly have stayed quiet.

Amaral did not stay quiet, that is mostly why forums such as this exists, why people still question the events surrounding what happened.  He opened his mouth in support of a child he never met, when everybody else stayed quiet and looked the other way.

If he is now quiet it is for very good reason, not least I'm sure because there is an active investigation going on in Portugal.

Other than blood there is little else that man can be expected to give.

sharonl wrote:An Irish teenager and her father.

The girls spots Gerry McCann & Jez Wilkins outside McCann apartment but does not see Tannerman

News reports on this have been whooshed.

Can you remember where (i.e which newspaper) and approximately when you read this story? I'm thinking of searching the archives for it when I next have an hour or so, so anything else you can remember would be useful.

AndyB wrote:

sharonl wrote:An Irish teenager and her father.

The girls spots Gerry McCann & Jez Wilkins outside McCann apartment but does not see Tannerman

News reports on this have been whooshed.

Can you remember where (i.e which newspaper) and approximately when you read this story? I'm thinking of searching the archives for it when I next have an hour or so, so anything else you can remember would be useful.

Hi I found reference to this in MccANNFILES
see below copied:
[color:129d=000000][size=10]by pjcvreis
October 29, 2007 at 11:55 am

A teenager, who was with her family at Ocean Club, saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, the night Madeleine disappeared – but she didn't see Jane Tanner or a man carrying a child. The girl wasn't in the list of guests, as their presence at Ocean Club wasn't registered with the management. Father and daughter have been in Portugal, recently, to help Policia Judiciaria in the reconstruction of what happened the night of May 3 and to give a formal statement to Police, according to a source close to the case.

Speaking to SOS Madeleine, the Irish teenager confirmed she saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, for a few minutes, near the McCann apartment: "There was only the father of the little girl talking to another man."

The teenager went out for a cigarette, around the same time Jane Tanner said she saw a man carrying a child. She only mentioned what she saw to her family later, because she had also to confess the reason why she was there. Since the beginning, Police had some doubts about Jane Tanner statement, as Jeremy Wilkins, a tennis partner of Madeleine's father, told them he only saw Gerry [/size]

Tuesday, 30 October 2007
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PJ detectives prepare for final steps of the investigation


Paulo Rebelo called a meeting with all the detective's team working in Madeleine's case for today, October 30. Criminal coordinator Gonçalo Amaral, previously in charge of the investigation, was asked to participate in the meeting. The last days have been very busy for Paulo Rebelo and his team of around twenty detectives working in the case. Recently, a new witness has been in Portugal and went to PJ headquarters in Portimão. This witness, an Irish teenager, saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, near the apartment from where Madeleine vanished, in the night of May 3, but she is also sure that there was no man carrying a child or Jane Tanner around, at that time.

Paulo Rebelo decided to call a special meeting to make a general analysis of the conclusions of the investigation, until now, after a careful review of all evidence collected, including the results of the samples already sent by Forensic Science Service. Yesterday, October 29, a team of detectives headed by Paulo Rebelo went to apartment 5A, at ocean Club, to check with detail some aspects of those conclusions. After almost four hours inside the apartment, the other detectives left to Portimão, while Paulo Rebelo went to the small square near the church with another PJ investigator. Before calling the meeting, Paulo Rebelo had a long talk with the national director of Polícia Judiciária, Alípio Ribeiro.

News in the Portuguese Press referred that Portuguese police was still waiting, last week, for the list of phone calls made from Praia da Luz, using mobile phones from UK networks. A request has been made to Police in the UK to allow Portuguese police to check the calls with the list of guests and other people staying at Praia da Luz, since the McCann arrived there, on April 28.

This meeting follows also the first public indications that the Portuguese Government is getting more uncomfortable with the violent attacks directed against the Portuguese police and the Judicial system. Mr. Santana Carlos, the Portuguese Ambassador in London, criticise the attitude of British Media, in a interview with The Times, and referred that there are “many more cases of abductions (in UK) than Portugal, and nobody talks about that, but this (Madeleine) case has come up very, very high in the news.”

Also last week, the McCann revealed, for the first time, they have hired a Spanish detectives private company, Metodo 3, to help find Madeleine. The company, according to Antena 3, was hired in August, before the McCann were named as formal suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. The company set up a hotline and issued a sketch of an alleged abductor, seen by one of the friends of the McCann, Jane Tanner, less than 30 minutes Kate McCann found Madeleine was missing.

Just a few days after the hotline was set up, Marita Fernandez, the general-manager of Metodo 3, told Spanish Media that witnesses calling the line have confirmed Madeleine McCann was alive and in Morocco. Metodo 3 told newspapers they had also found another kidnapped child, an American blonde girl, in the mountains of Rif. But a source from “Sureté Nacionale”, the Moroccan intelligence services, denied this information and told us they didn't have any information about the American girl or Madeleine McCann sightings.

The law that regulates privates detectives work, in Spain, demands that any information related to a crime must be immediately forwarded to Police. A PJ investigator considered “very strange” that a positive identification of Madeleine, as the one referred by Metodo 3, could be made available to the Media, instead of remaining absolutely confidential: “This could be a death sentence, if the child was in the hands of a paedophile network, what those Spanish detectives say it's also a possibility...”

Moroccan authorities expelled a British citizen, recently, after he offered large amounts of money in exchange of specific statements about a blonde girl, to several staff members from a gas station in Marrakesh – the same city were Interpol will have its 76 General Assembly, between 5 and 8 of November.


Duarte Levy (Marrakesh) and Paulo Reis (Lisbon)

so tannerman was allegedly important to their "scenario" but has been rendered obsolete by sy.  "....things change.."

sar wrote:so tannerman was allegedly important to their "scenario" but has been rendered obsolete by sy.  "....things change.."

Tannerman was VITAL to their scenario
Without a sighting of a person carrying a child there is precisely NOTHING
No entry, no exit, no forensics, nothing on the long list of things there should be if a crime had been committed.

Which is why Smithman is now VITAL.
Vital in the sense that they cannot allow him to be found and identified as a father carrying his child
They must be terrified that Redwood is going to announce that they have traced, interviewed and eliminated him
Even more terrified if Redwood announces that Smithman did not even exist.

PeterMac wrote:

sar wrote:so tannerman was allegedly important to their "scenario" but has been rendered obsolete by sy.  "....things change.."

Tannerman was VITAL to their scenario
Without a sighting of a person carrying a child there is precisely NOTHING
No entry, no exit, no forensics, nothing on the long list of things there should be if a crime had been committed.

Which is why Smithman is now VITAL.
Vital in the sense that they cannot allow him to be found and identified as a father carrying his child
They must be terrified that Redwood is going to announce that they have traced, interviewed and eliminated him
Even more terrified if Redwood announces that Smithman did not even exist.

So where does this leave Andy Redwood's unnamed 'Tannerman' shown on Crimewatch?

I didn't know where to post this so will post it here.

2008
Jane Tanner is not credible: she identifies and recognizes different people. She starts with Murat, later on someone else is mentioned, according to the drawing done by a witness, and she already says that is the person, completely different from Robert Murat.
Jane Tanner’s testimony drove the abduction theory.
In order to advance into that direction, it would be necessary to give her credit: there was no other indicium of the abduction. And the issue of the bedroom window, where Maddie and her siblings slept, is vital. It leads to simulation. This means, whether or not it was open when Jane says that she saw the man carrying the child. The little girl’s mother, Kate, is the only person that mentions the open window.
Does that undo the abduction theory?
There lies the solution. To be closed or not, is a strong indicium for simulation. And why does one simulate abduction, rather than simply saying that the child has disappeared? She could have opened the door and left…
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How curious if this Irish teenager had snuck out from Estrela da Luz for a smoke...

Was anything else ever brought up about her?