Re: Pat Brown: The 5 Main Clues in the Madeleine McCann Case

by Guest 08.04.21 15:50

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16359-darren-ware-mrs-fenn-s-statements-extracts-from-when-madeleine-died#402215

by Guest 08.04.21 16:24

Pamela Fenn's witness statement was given to the Portuguese police on 20th August 2007, three and a half months after Madeleine McCann's reported disappearance.

This event happened two days after a media blitz hit the UK, the 18th August 2007.

Just one such press report..

The Sun

By JULIE MOULT in Praia da Luz, Portugal
Published: 18 Aug 2007

THE parents of Madeleine McCann have told their twins for the first time their big sister is missing.

Kate and Gerry had been telling the inquisitive two-year-olds that Maddie was on a holiday.

But on the advice of top child psychologists they broke it to Sean and Amelie their big sister has disappeared and "Mummy and Daddy are looking for her".

A family friend said: "Kate and Gerry have been advised to be very open and to answer the twins' questions very truthfully.

"The twins understand the concept of missing in the same way they would miss a favourite toy.

"Madeleine is spoken about a lot and the twins do say they miss her. They adored her and had a very touching relationship.

Kate and Gerry are very mindful and careful not to upset them, and that is why they have taken advice on how to approach such a delicate and traumatic issue."

Doctors Kate and Gerry, both 39, have been in touch with British child experts since Maddie, four, vanished from an apartment while on holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3.

They have even been visited by psychologists who have spent time with Sean and Amelie. Gerry said: "We've been advised that keeping a routine for them is very important for their coping. They are happy but know Madeleine is not here."

But that routine was disrupted last week when the twins had to be pulled out of a crèche for several days after it was besieged by the Portuguese media.

A friend said: "Kate was pretty shaken by it and the twins confused. It wasn't pleasant.

"Kate and Gerry take their parenting responsibilities very seriously and the top priority is that the twins have a normal life. They are very keen to protect their children. As long as they can do that they are happy to stay in Portugal."

The McCanns have been considering returning to the UK. But yesterday it emerged they had extended the lease on their villa in the resort for another month.

Meanwhile Portuguese cops were again under fire. The woman living in the apartment above the McCanns claimed she had not been spoken to by police until the British team arrived two weeks ago.

Expat Pamela Fenn, 73, told them she disturbed a burglar at her apartment about three weeks before Maddie vanished. She is now to give a formal statement to Portuguese officers.

A friend said: "She was surprised that neither the police nor the McCanns had approached her before."

Pamela also said her niece, who stayed with her the week Maddie disappeared, spotted somebody fitting the description of a man seen carrying a child away under a blanket. The pal added: "He was acting suspiciously."

The niece has given a statement to police in Britain.

Acknowledgement Nigel Moore of mccannfiles.com

What prompted Pamela Fenn to present herself as a witness on 20th August 2007, two days after the media blitz, I don't believe has ever been established. The most two likely candidates in my view are Clarence Mitchell and/or Pamela Fenn's niece, Carole Tranmar, another interesting character in her own right.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14972p100-candid-camera-clarence-mitchell#428872

This has been discussed extensively across the forum in the distant past, if anyone is interested let me know and I will dig it out.

Meanwhile, the thread has gone way off topic. I will leave things as they are for the present but if the subject develops I will move to the approriate thread. Indeed I think I might do that anyway but it will have to wait until later. Feel free to continue here for the moment.

thumbsup

by **crusader** 08.04.21 16:34

@Verdiwrote...

Meanwhile, the thread has gone way off topic. I will leave things as they are for the present but if the subject develops I will move to the approriate thread. Indeed I think I might do that anyway but it will have to wait until later. Feel free to continue here for the moment.

I agree, It's gone from one thing to the next. Please don't move it yet. I've spent hours today preparing to answer Tony. There are a lot of questions to get through. I will have to keep logging in or answer them in stages.

by Guest 08.04.21 16:38

Silentscope wrote:Mrs Fenn saying she never heard a thing, and never knew that the Family was in there.

The Mundo video sound is very poor quality, I can only roughly transcribe what was said by Pamela Fenn..

Honestly, I have never .... I've been here for three months, they write rubbish in the newspapers. I've never spoken to a journalist - it's rubbish, I've never even uttered a word. I've .. er .. it's all rubbish - leave me please just forget it.

This transcript is from another anonymous source..

Honestly, I have... I know nothing. I have been here three months, until all this happened. I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in newspapers, I've never even uttered a word! I've never (sighs)... it's all rubbish! Please, please, just forget it.

Pretty much the same. Whatever, one thing for sure. Pamela Fenn said nothing about 'not hearing a thing or not knowing the family was in there' during that brief video clip!

by Guest 08.04.21 16:42

crusader wrote:@Verdiwrote...

Meanwhile, the thread has gone way off topic. I will leave things as they are for the present but if the subject develops I will move to the approriate thread. Indeed I think I might do that anyway but it will have to wait until later. Feel free to continue here for the moment.

I agree, It's gone from one thing to the next. Please don't move it yet. I've spent hours today preparing to answer Tony. There are a lot of questions to get through. I will have to keep logging in or answer them in stages.

Consider it done .... or not done as the case maybe. You are safe to continue here on this thread unabated until further notice thumbsup

.

Sounds like your observations on Tony's questions will definitely warrant pride of place somewhere more appropriate.

Later ....

by **crusader** 08.04.21 16:46

Thank you

by **sharonl** 08.04.21 18:58

There is something very strange about the ex-pat community over there.

For me the biggest red flag in this area is the statement of Mrs Fenns niece, Carole Tramner and the claim that Mrs Fenn saw off a burglar. Look at how Carole describes access to Mrs Fenns apartment and how ridiculous the prospect of a burglary is. This claim was only made to back up the McCanns claim that there were burglaries in the area. However, none had been reported to the police, not even Mrs Fenns.

by **Tony Bennett** 08.04.21 19:20

sharonl wrote:There is something very strange about the ex-pat community over there.

For me the biggest red flag in this area is the statement of Mrs Fenns niece, Carole Tramner and the claim that Mrs Fenn saw off a burglar. Look at how Carole describes access to Mrs Fenns apartment and how ridiculous the prospect of a burglary is. This claim was only made to back up the McCanns claim that there were burglaries in the area. However, none had been reported to the police, not even Mrs Fenns.

Exactly!

Mrs Fenn's burglary claim has even more holes in it than 'I heard a child crying for 75 minutes, louder and louder, and did nothing about it'.

I hoping that when 'crusader' returns, s/he will fully address the burglary claim as well as the crying claim.

by **crusader** 08.04.21 19:31

In answer to your questions Tony...
1. Regarding Pamela Fenn, do you believe that Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine crying, or was it one of the other children (the twins) or could it have been another child altogether?

I believe it was Madeleine Mrs Fenn was talking about.

She said she had no doubt the noise was coming from the floor below.

The crying stopped when the parent's arrived, she didn't see the parents, she heard the patio door open.

The nearest child and not baby was Ella O'Brien 3 doors away.

Sorry about the delay, my new laptop keeps crashing.

by **Tony Bennett** 08.04.21 20:06

Verdi wrote:
crusader wrote:@Verdiwrote...

Meanwhile, the thread has gone way off topic. I will leave things as they are for the present but if the subject develops I will move to the approriate thread. Indeed I think I might do that anyway but it will have to wait until later. Feel free to continue here for the moment.

I agree, It's gone from one thing to the next. Please don't move it yet. I've spent hours today preparing to answer Tony. There are a lot of questions to get through. I will have to keep logging in or answer them in stages.

Consider it done .... or not done as the case maybe. You are safe to continue here on this thread unabated until further notice .

Sounds like your observations on Tony's questions will definitely warrant pride of place somewhere more appropriate.

I think that's very much the right decision @Verdi

After all, the topic is about Pat Brown's five best lines of evidence.

When I saw the title of this thread, I frankly assumed it to mean that we would be debating whether Pat Brown's five evidences were indeed the best, or even correct. So I produced some of my best evidences for the scenario of a serious event befalling Madeleine on the Sunday.

Incidentally Verdi, could you do us a favour on this thread and just remind us, if you would be kind enough, what, in summary, were Pat Brown's five best evidences. It would help us a lot.

I look forward to a robust, polite and honest debate with 'crusader'...and may the best evidence about what really happened to Madeleine McCann emerge from the debate (and I hope many others will join in the debate)

by **crusader** 08.04.21 21:33

I have just spent the last 2 hours replying to Tony and it's all gone. angry2

When I tried to post, it said log in, when I did, it all disappeared. I don't know if it's this laptop, but there is no way to save anything.
I'll get my old one out and try that... Gutted

by **Jill Havern** 08.04.21 21:53

Type it out in a word processing document, then copy and paste.

Or...type it out in a private message and send it to yourself. I've been known to do that myself big grin

by **crusader** 08.04.21 22:30

2. Have you read this thread of mine? yes I have

1. On her own admission, she did not report the crying incident to the police at the time, or later
True, perhaps she more annoyed at first than worried.She did'nt know the cause of the crying. she thought perhaps it was because of a nightmare.She contacted a friend, Edna Glyn telling her of the situation.

2. She appears to have been prompted into making her statement by the McCann Team
I think it's more to do with a friend of Mrs Fenn giving an interview to the papers. It was her who gave the details of the burglary and how Mrs Fenn tried to push him out of the window, the suspicious blond man opening gate, which incidentally was not in my opinion the McCann gate, I believe it was the Oldfield's gate Carol Tramner was meaning.

The friend also said Mrs Fenn remembers the time of the crying because she was talking to friend back home and watching the 10-30 news. This was from Gerry mcCann's Blog by Pamalam.

[size=16]3. Mrs Fenn’s account of a burglary at her home in the weeks before 28^th April is at the very least open to doubt. If she was not truthful about that, we simply cannot use her statement as evidence of anything[/size]

[size=16]I don't doubt Mrs Fenn's statement that she made to police. We don't know what she said in her first statement and if the friend is to be believed, she did report it at the time.[/size]

by **crusader** 08.04.21 22:33

I am so sorry about the bitty replies, everything is going wrong today. Thanks Jill, I'll try that, the dammed thing is going back on Monday.

by **crusader** 08.04.21 23:11

4. Despite a child allegedly continually crying and sobbing for 75 minutes, with other properties all around, not one other person has ever corroborated the ‘crying incident’. No-one else heard it.

Robert Murat allegedly reported to a policeman that some foreign woman had called him about a crying child. Mrs Fenn isn't foreign and Mrs Edna Glyn doesn't sound foreign so perhaps somebody did.

5. Mrs Fenn says that she ’phoned and spoke to a Mrs Edna Glyn ‘some time after 11.00pm’, that is, after the crying had been going on for over half-an-hour. We have never seen any corroboration of this from Mrs Glyn

True, But why would she lie, I think we would have heard from Edna Glyn if the statement wasn't true.

6. It is claimed by Mrs Fenn that when she spoke to Mrs Glyn, she replied: ‘I am not surprised’. According to Mrs Fenn’s evidence, the child she heard crying was sobbing continually - and so must have been audible to her and Mrs Glyn as they were talking (if they were). Yet on Mrs Fenn’s evidence, neither of them bothered to lift a finger about it. They could have called the police or the Ocean Club. But they did nothing

She did call her friend Edna Glyn, she was obviously unsure about what to do, perhaps she thought/hoped the parents would be back soon.
Some people don't like to interfere.

7. In any event, Mrs Fenn’s account of contacting Mrs Glyn about the crying appears to conflict with the account of a police officer, who testified that Robert Murat had said that ‘some foreign woman’ had ’phoned him up on the night of the ‘crying incident’

I can't see it as a conflict, It shows that someone else did hear the crying.

8. The description Mrs Fenn gives about the age of the child that she says she heard crying is strange, clumsy and contrived. Allowing for the possibility that something may have been ‘lost in translation’, her statement says that the crying was coming from directly below her and that “the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger”. The twins were two years and two months during the holiday in Praia da Luz. Thus Pamela Fenn’s statement appears to rule them out. There is at least a suspicion therefore that her statement has been carefully crafted to suggest that it was Madeleine that was crying

I don't think Mrs Fenn's statement was carefully crafted to suggest it was Madelene crying, she couldn't be more clear that it WAS Madeleine that was crying.

9. A news clip about Mrs Fenn appeared on SIC TV, Portugal, on 22 August two days after her statement at Portimao Police Station. In it, she denied having any information about the case:

Mrs Fenn never said she had spoken to police, she clearly said she has never spoken to journalists .

10. Mrs Fenn herself was interviewed for the programme and said that anything she was supposed to have said to the police was ‘rubbish’.

She wasn't "interviewed" she was being harassed by the media.
She said they've written rubbish in the newspapers, I've never uttered a word it's all rubbish. forget it.

by **crusader** 08.04.21 23:33

3. Which other threads of mine dealing with Pamela Fenn's evidence have you read please?

I read everything you write, but I'm not, as been shown, in full agreement with some things, I believe Pamela Fenn and The Smiths Statements are true as they see it for instance.

4. Why do you believe Mrs Fenn's evidence despite its obvious problems and yet disbelieve her when she plainly says in her own words: "It's all rubbish"?

I can't remember saying I disbelieve her saying it's all rubbish.
She said they have written rubbish in the newspapers. " Ive never even uttered a word its all rubbish forget it"

by **crusader** 08.04.21 23:43

That covers the Pamela Fenn part, I've tried to explain my reasons as best I can and I hope it is enough. I wasn't expecting to be discussing her.

I'll answer your questions on Robert Murat tomorrow if that's ok.

by Guest 09.04.21 1:28

Tony Bennett wrote:Incidentally Verdi, could you do us a favour on this thread and just remind us, if you would be kind enough, what, in summary, were Pat Brown's five best evidences. It would help us a lot.

Pat Brown: The 5 Main Clues in the Madeleine McCann Case - Page 3 Scre1446

Hee-haw! Hee-haw! big grin

That's a big ask!

What an eccentric performance, is it an American thing or is Ms Brown on something, it's borderline hysteria.

Quick summary of first 30 minutes, it's all about Pat Brown. She is so committed to her work (as I previously suggested) she doesn't have the time to concentrate on the case of Madeleine McCann alone, thus during this video she relies heavily on the chat feed to bring her up to speed. The chat feed is rather like twitter so is less than reliable. Still, who cares just as long as they say nice things about the profiler, on pain of punishment should you criticize.

bignono

Cutting through the superfluous verbiage, the criminal profiler so far has only reiterated what so many here on CMOMM have said before, over and over again.

In short, there is no evidence of abduction. As we all know without the credentials of a 'Criminal Profiler', in terms of law the lack of evidence doesn't prove that an abduction didn't take place but it does form the base on the investigation - my words.

Ms Brown eventually moves on to the establishment of Operation Grange, again reliant on the chat feed to remind her of things she has long since forgotten. Basically, as we all know, Ms Brown then concentrates on the remit of Operation Grange - looking at the case with only abduction as a possible scenario, ignoring the PJ investigation and any other possibilities.

Well I think we all know that by now, that is a fact printed indelibly in the annuls of time - Operation Grange said so themselves.

And that is far as it goes at this stage. It will have to get better if I'm to continue with this escapade.

Sorry to say but Ms Brown's performance is a trifle too theatrical for my liking, keep it interesting yes but don't turn it into a soap opera if you want to retain your credibility, your audience and to be convincing.

I only hope she was a little more circumspect when on Portuguese soil with Dr Amaral back in the day.

I will persevere for the sake of the forum but I'm not sure how long it will last. Patience is not my strong point.

by **ShiningInLuz** 09.04.21 7:16

Pat Brown's 5 Main Clues were these. In her view obviously.

1 No PHYSICAL evidence of abduction.

2 No CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence of abduction.

3 Dog evidence. Eddie and Keela alerts. Particularly behind the sofa.

4 Odd behaviour of the McCanns

5 Kate could sleep after a few days (i.e. she knew what had happened).

To repeat, these are Pat Brown's views in 5 Main Points.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.04.21 10:11

Thank you @Verdi and @ShiningInLuz and of course @crusader for your responses. I will reply fully to your points just as soon as I am able.

Pat Brown's five main clues are reasonable. They point to Madeleine having died during that holiday and not having been abducted. But that's as far as she goes. She still believes, as Goncalo Amaral has done up to now (but wait for his book!) that Madeleine was at that alleged high tea at 5pm-6pm on Thursday 3 May and then suffered a death, perhaps violent, in the apartment after 6pm. Surely that is a scenario that no-one who has studied this case in detail can hold to any longer?

by **crusader** 09.04.21 10:31

She still believes, as Goncalo Amaral has done up to now (but wait for his book!) that Madeleine was at that alleged high tea at 5pm-6pm on Thursday 3 May and then suffered a death, perhaps violent, in the apartment after 6pm. Surely that is a scenario that no-one who has studied this case in detail can hold to any longer?

Oh dear I'm in trouble because I do believe there was an High tea.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.04.21 10:57

crusader wrote:She still believes, as Goncalo Amaral has done up to now (but wait for his book!) that Madeleine was at that alleged high tea at 5pm-6pm on Thursday 3 May and then suffered a death, perhaps violent, in the apartment after 6pm. Surely that is a scenario that no-one who has studied this case in detail can hold to any longer?

Oh dear I'm in trouble because I do believe there was an High tea.

It is always very helpful when people are clear about where they stand, so thank you for that @crusader

I assure you that you are not in any trouble, crusader, but your response does lead me to ask you these further questions, which perhaps you can answer at your convenience:

1. What time do you say the high tea started and ended?

2. In particular, what time do you say that each of the following arrived at the high tea: Cat Baker, Madeleine, the twins, Gerry McCann?

3. Do you suggest that anyone else was present at the high tea, if so, who else do you think was there?

4. Have you read all the accounts of those who describe the high tea? If so, how do you explain each of the multiple discrepancies in the accounts of Cat Baker, Kate McCann, Gerry McCann and Charlotte Pennington?

5. Do you think it is a truthful account ('madeleine', hard copy, pp. 66-67) that Madeleine was 'so pale and worn out' when Kate saw her Madeleine first 'at 5.30pm', and that 'the five of us' went back to the apartment with Kate 'carrying Madeleine'? Is it really credible that Kate, rather than Gerry, was carrying Madeleine?

6. Do you say that there was a 'like' high tea at the Tapas bar every other day of the week? If so, please, where do you find the evidence for that?

Thanks. Will reply in detail re Pamela Fenn hopefully today or tomorrow.

by **crusader** 09.04.21 11:13

@ TonyBennett

No prob, it's great to be able to explain what I think.

by Guest 09.04.21 12:25

ShiningInLuz wrote:Pat Brown's 5 Main Clues were these. In her view obviously.

1 No PHYSICAL evidence of abduction.

2 No CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence of abduction.

3 Dog evidence. Eddie and Keela alerts. Particularly behind the sofa.

4 Odd behaviour of the McCanns

5 Kate could sleep after a few days (i.e. she knew what had happened).

To repeat, these are Pat Brown's views in 5 Main Points.

Thank you for that brief summary ShiningInLuz - you've saved a further 90 minutes of my life, for which I'm eternally grateful.

hat

by Guest 09.04.21 12:47

sharonl wrote:There is something very strange about the ex-pat community over there.

For me the biggest red flag in this area is the statement of Mrs Fenns niece, Carole Tramner and the claim that Mrs Fenn saw off a burglar. Look at how Carole describes access to Mrs Fenns apartment and how ridiculous the prospect of a burglary is. This claim was only made to back up the McCanns claim that there were burglaries in the area. However, none had been reported to the police, not even Mrs Fenns.

Indeed, the burglar must have been a spiderman (oooh another new suspect to consider). A tabloid report at the time of the 18th August 2007 media blitz, just two days prior to Pamela Fenn giving her witness statement, had this to say..

In a new development, a British expat has come forward with dramatic new evidence.

Pamela Fenn said a man broke into her flat above the McCanns' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, on the Algarve, just weeks before Madeleine disappeared.

There was no sign of a break-in and it is thought the intruder may have had a key.

Mrs Fenn, who is in her 70s, found the man scrambling out of the window and tried to grab his ankle. But he escaped.

The Mirror

Pat Brown: The 5 Main Clues in the Madeleine McCann Case - Page 3 Scre1448

by Guest 09.04.21 13:10

As I say, the subject of Pamela Fenn and her niece has been discussed extensively here on CMOMM in the past.

One thing that stands out above all else, at least in my view, Pamela Fenn did not give a witness statement until 20th August 2007.

According to Pamela Fenn's witness statement, she was a home on the night of 3rd May 2007, she goes into considerable detail about what she saw and heard.

Contrary to rumours spread abroad about incompetence in the Portuguese investigation, they did conduct house to house calls at the commencement of their investigation, in line with routine policing. It stands to reason, the first port of call would be a door to door check in the apartment block where the McCann family was accommodated. The police would be more than interested in locating witnesses in the environs that might help their investigation.

Even if you assume Pamela Fenn was not at home during the house calls, I would expect - knowing the apartment above 5a to be occupied, the police would have made a return visit to question the occupant. As there is no record of an interview recorded in the PJ files, it can be reasonably concluded that Pamela Fenn had nothing to say on that occasion. This runs counter to her witness statement.

Again if you assume she was out, even if the police didn't make a return call to speak to her, surely she would have realised that any information she could give, like the information in her statement, would be of assistance to police inquiries into the disappearance of a three year old child? Why didn't she put herself forward at the time, why wait until 20th August to make a statement to the police.

Withholding potentially important evidence from a police investigation ..... perverting the course of justice .... perjury?

It doesn't look good.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.04.21 15:20

Verdi wrote:One thing that stands out above all else, at least in my view, Pamela Fenn did not give a witness statement until 20th August 2007.

Yes, agreed, that is a stand-out fact.

But @Verdi it was coupled with a series of reports in the British press during the three days before Mrs Fenn went to the police on Thursday 20 August 2007. A lot of those reports have disappeared from the net now, but here's one I found from the Evening Standard dated the day before, 19 August:

Police will speak again in the coming days to Pamela Fenn, 73, who owns an apartment above the one where Madeleine was sleeping with her brother and sister, two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. Madeleine was six days short of her fourth birthday when she vanished. Mrs Fenn claims to have disturbed an intruder in her flat a few weeks earlier, scaring him off.

Her niece will also give a new statement to police, having spotted a suspicious man hanging around the apartment block on the night Madeleine vanished. It has been suggested the intruder may have had a key to the flat and let himself in. A similar claim is being made about a burglary at another apartment.

It is thought Mrs Fenn will make a formal statement to police today at the headquarters in Portimao, not far from Praia da Luz. Her niece, who has not been named, has also given a statement to British police in which her description of the suspect matches that given to police by a friend of Gerry and Kate McCann who was dining with them on the night.

The Evening Standard and all the other British newspapers who covered this story between 17 & 19 August must have been comprehensively briefed beforehand with all these details. The finger of suspicion points unerringly to Clarence Mitchell. He must have known exactly what Pamela Fenn was going to tell the PJ. So much so, that I think it probable that she took with her a written note which others prepared for her. That would explain why she was able to say "it's all rubbish" later. Because it was all rubbish!

Also, remember the context. In early August, Martin Grime's dogs went to Portugal. The following 10 days the British press was full of stories of corpse scent and blood being found in the McCanns' holiday flat. The whole McCann Team must have been desperate to change the narrative. What better than two lurid stories about a child wailing for 75 minutes on the Tuesday (thus 'proving' that Madeleine was alive then), and of a dramatic burglary attempt with 82-year-old Mrs Fenn leaping out of her chair and nearly catching the burglar by the ankle as he jumped out of her first-floor window to the concrete floor below?

Note @Verdi... While delaying her statement for 3.5 months is definitely a major red flag, to my mind the core issue about Mrs Fenn's statements is the combination of a mass of contradictions in them and the extreme improbability of either of the two scenarios: (a) hearing a child crying ever louder for 75 minutes and doing nothing and (b) leaping to try and catch the burglar by the ankle - when according to the narrative he had 'entered using a key'. To me her statement absolutely does not have the 'ring of truth'

by Guest 09.04.21 15:45

Tony wrote:
But @Verdi it was coupled with a series of reports in the British press during the three days before Mrs Fenn went to the police on Thursday 20 August 2007. A lot of those reports have disappeared from the net now, but here's one I found from the Evening Standard dated the day before, 19 August:

Posted up-page..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t17087p50-pat-brown-the-5-main-clues-in-the-madeleine-mccann-case#434565

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t17087p75-pat-brown-the-5-main-clues-in-the-madeleine-mccann-case#434601

by **crusader** 09.04.21 16:54

5. Could you please clarify what you are saying about the Smithman sighting? Am I right in thinking that you agree that the Smiths really did see someone carrying a young blonde girt?

My opinion is the Smith family did see a man carrying a blond girl, didn't think anything about it at the time .
There was nothing unusual about it

6 What if the Smiths are telling the truth and they believe it was Gerry and Madeleine, but it wasn't Madeleine, it was one of the other blonde little girls (wearing long sleeve pyjamas).

Just to be clear before I answer the questions.
I believe madeleine was alive and well until the evening of 3rd May.

I believe she was a much loved daughter and she died as the result of an accident.

There is no way of telling who was carrying a child the Smith family saw, unless someone comes forward
( independent of the police) and admits it was him.I say independent of the police, if that is the right term, because there is no way I believe Tannerman was Julian Totman for obvious reasons.

It's quite possible it wasn't Gerry the Smith's saw, there is no way of knowing who it was.

by **Jill Havern** 09.04.21 17:24

If Madeleine was alive and well until the evening of May 3rd - why are there no photos of her (or the twins) during the week (other than the dubious tennis balls photo), and why did they need to forge the Last Photo to make it appear as though she was alive and well on May 3rd?