Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
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Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Jill Havern 02.08.15 17:41
Courtesy of Tania Cadogan (Hobs)
What I believe may have happened to Maddie McCann
I believe that Maddie died sometime during the vacation before Thurs may 3rd.
That cadaverine was found behind the sofa means she lay there for at least 90 Min's if she died in the apartment since that is how long (depending on the manner of death and the environmental conditions - temp, humidity etc)
This would blow away their claims of 30 min checks on the children that night since they clearly didn't notice her missing for at least 90 Min's.
Given also the fact the apartment was almost forensically cleaned, to the extent there was little evidence there were 3 children present and we all know how wet and sticky children can be especially at their ages, there was little to no DNA that Maddie was ever present.
Forensics look for what is there that shouldn't be and, just as importantly, what isn't there that should be.
This tells me that time had to be taken to clean the apartment, something not possible in the time frames given for Thurs, May 3rd.
This then tells me Maddie died sometime earlier in the week.
Looking at the statements and how much is written concerning each day of the trip, I and others have noticed there seems to be a lot missing from one day of the week (it might be the Mon or Tues, i can't recall off the top of my head)
This is noted in all the statements from the group.
We go from quite detailed to obfuscation and i can't remembers, which makes the day sensitive and thus requiring further information as to why the sensitivity.
If she died much earlier in the week as is probable, then there is plenty of time for the clean up, laundering and hiding of the body.
Think about this for a moment.
Thursday was the very last night they could have had the abduction, since on Friday they would be on their way home.
They would not have announced it earlier since they needed time for the cleanup, sorting out time lines and concealing Maddie's body.
Also, since this is the mccanns and chums, why spoil a good vacation by calling out the faked abduction any earlier?
Thus Thursday was the only day they could have used.
They knew they would have to stay in Portugal, the interviews by the PJ, the alleged searching plus the free accommodation for desperate ' innocent' parents and it also meant they could fly family and friends out for a freebie as well under the guise of helping and support.
Now, Why did the mccanns act the way they did?
Innocents parents act a specific and expected way.
Guilty parents act a specific and expected way (as in unexpected for innocent parents)
The two are mutually exclusive.
Innocent parents, had there been an accident, would have called 911 even, if she was long dead.
The parents are in denial and will always hope for a miracle.
Even though they are doctors, they would have still called 911 simply because a hospital has the equipment and staff, something the parents and chums didn't have.
The fact they didn't call 911 means that there was something they could not explain away as accidental.
If they found her dead, there was evidence that could not be explained away as accidental.
This could be current injuries, old and healing injuries, evidence of sedation (especially long term sedation - think Shannon Mathews and the hair tests) and signs of sexual injuries and abuse either old or new.
If injuries then if old, medical records would show if she had been treated in hospital or by a GP.
If signs of long term drugs, then medical records would indicate if they had been prescribed and who by.
Sexual injuries would result in a lot of darn awkward questions as to who had access to the children and when, any criminal records or history if not charged)
If it had been, for example, drug ingestion then they could have claimed she found the 'candy' and ate it and they didn't notice and only realised when they found her unresponsive or dead the next day.
This though would have meant them calling 911 as would be expected, since they didn't know or hear anything and thus could not have been charged.
If she had fallen and banged her head and died, again they could have claimed to be sleeping the sleep of the intoxicated and only found her the next morning dead behind the sofa.
Again the expected would be they called 911, since they didn't know or hear anything and thus could not have been charged
They didn't call 911 so this begs the question why not?
What was done that they could not explain it away as an accident either falling whilst they were asleep or eating medication again whilst they were asleep.?
The obvious conclusion is that they could not allow an autopsy because of what would be revealed.
Evidence of physical injuries, sedation or sexual abuse would result in arrest and prosecution since none could be explained away.
This would also account for why the medical records were not released.
Evidence of injuries, UTI's etc and no visits to the hospital or GP.
The GMC would also be involved if they were self medicating and self prescribing.
If sexual abuse was present (likely the most obvious reason) then it points straight to gerry and also to the men of the tapas group and, given the previous statements from the Dr's Gaspar, david payne would be high on the list as well as matthew oldfield since he too checked on the children that Thurs. night (allegedly)
If it was recent then they could have blamed the paedophile abductor if Maddie had been found within days and, again, dependant on the condition of the body.
If the injuries were old and Maddie was found within a few days, again it points straight to gerry and anyone who had access to the children.
It would not account for a paedophile abductor since the injuries would be older than the timeline could account for.
Kate introduced the word MURDER when using the process of free editing.
Words are thought a microsecond before being spoken.
MURDER is what was at the forefront of kate's mind when she spoke.
This then precludes an accidental death, otherwise she would have said accidental death or even death.
Daily Mirror Interview.
Quote:
"They want me to lie - I'm being framed.
"Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming US
It is worth noting she takes ownership of lying and being framed ( the assumption is by the police but she doesn't tell us the police want her to lie or to frame her.
She could be referring to the members of the group including gerry)
The pronoun US shows unity and shared cooperation, often found when the guilty want to minimise their own role in the crime and spread the guilt - ask anyone with children and teenagers and the ever popular, everyone else was doing it as well excuse [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.])
Both kate and gerry and even clarrie have told us Maddie is dead, though not how or at whose hand, that I Can see, although the tapas group have indicated Maddie was bumped on the head (an active action, something done deliberately as opposed to having bumped her head which is passive and done accidentally)
They also leaked that there were several doctors in the group who could have resuscitated her.
This then indicates a violent action occurred, something that could not be explained away such as her falling and bumping her head such as off the sofa.
This would lead me to ask where the injury was, that it could not be explained away as an accident.
This would include things such as finger marks (remember the bruises on kate's arm) jewellery marks, the location of the injury etc.
Perhaps even to multiple injuries perhaps caused when someone loses their temper and beats the victim.
They may not have set out to kill the victim, they just couldn't stop themselves until they either exhausted themselves or were pulled away by someone (again the bruises on kate's arm and wrist)
Whatever the cause, whoever did it, the parents could not allow an autopsy to be performed because of the consequences to themselves.
If it was a member of the group, why would they not point the finger?
Their daughter killed by a family friend.
The guilt would lie solely with the guilty person not the parent.
They would have sympathy and even donations for the funeral.
Unless, of course they knew about said friend's 'little peccadilloes' in which case questions would be asked as to how much the knew, and why they allowed said person access to their children and then an investigation into whether they themselves had 'little peccadilloes'.
There is also the risk the guilty person would drop them in it as well, on the grounds of if I am going down, I am taking everyone else with me.
There is a huge secret being hidden, swinging it is not since no one cares what you do with your sex lives if it is legal and consensual, although you may find your friends who aren't into each other putting a lot of distance between them and you (and a good many more introducing themselves)
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What I believe may have happened to Maddie McCann
I believe that Maddie died sometime during the vacation before Thurs may 3rd.
That cadaverine was found behind the sofa means she lay there for at least 90 Min's if she died in the apartment since that is how long (depending on the manner of death and the environmental conditions - temp, humidity etc)
This would blow away their claims of 30 min checks on the children that night since they clearly didn't notice her missing for at least 90 Min's.
Given also the fact the apartment was almost forensically cleaned, to the extent there was little evidence there were 3 children present and we all know how wet and sticky children can be especially at their ages, there was little to no DNA that Maddie was ever present.
Forensics look for what is there that shouldn't be and, just as importantly, what isn't there that should be.
This tells me that time had to be taken to clean the apartment, something not possible in the time frames given for Thurs, May 3rd.
This then tells me Maddie died sometime earlier in the week.
Looking at the statements and how much is written concerning each day of the trip, I and others have noticed there seems to be a lot missing from one day of the week (it might be the Mon or Tues, i can't recall off the top of my head)
This is noted in all the statements from the group.
We go from quite detailed to obfuscation and i can't remembers, which makes the day sensitive and thus requiring further information as to why the sensitivity.
If she died much earlier in the week as is probable, then there is plenty of time for the clean up, laundering and hiding of the body.
Think about this for a moment.
Thursday was the very last night they could have had the abduction, since on Friday they would be on their way home.
They would not have announced it earlier since they needed time for the cleanup, sorting out time lines and concealing Maddie's body.
Also, since this is the mccanns and chums, why spoil a good vacation by calling out the faked abduction any earlier?
Thus Thursday was the only day they could have used.
They knew they would have to stay in Portugal, the interviews by the PJ, the alleged searching plus the free accommodation for desperate ' innocent' parents and it also meant they could fly family and friends out for a freebie as well under the guise of helping and support.
Now, Why did the mccanns act the way they did?
Innocents parents act a specific and expected way.
Guilty parents act a specific and expected way (as in unexpected for innocent parents)
The two are mutually exclusive.
Innocent parents, had there been an accident, would have called 911 even, if she was long dead.
The parents are in denial and will always hope for a miracle.
Even though they are doctors, they would have still called 911 simply because a hospital has the equipment and staff, something the parents and chums didn't have.
The fact they didn't call 911 means that there was something they could not explain away as accidental.
If they found her dead, there was evidence that could not be explained away as accidental.
This could be current injuries, old and healing injuries, evidence of sedation (especially long term sedation - think Shannon Mathews and the hair tests) and signs of sexual injuries and abuse either old or new.
If injuries then if old, medical records would show if she had been treated in hospital or by a GP.
If signs of long term drugs, then medical records would indicate if they had been prescribed and who by.
Sexual injuries would result in a lot of darn awkward questions as to who had access to the children and when, any criminal records or history if not charged)
If it had been, for example, drug ingestion then they could have claimed she found the 'candy' and ate it and they didn't notice and only realised when they found her unresponsive or dead the next day.
This though would have meant them calling 911 as would be expected, since they didn't know or hear anything and thus could not have been charged.
If she had fallen and banged her head and died, again they could have claimed to be sleeping the sleep of the intoxicated and only found her the next morning dead behind the sofa.
Again the expected would be they called 911, since they didn't know or hear anything and thus could not have been charged
They didn't call 911 so this begs the question why not?
What was done that they could not explain it away as an accident either falling whilst they were asleep or eating medication again whilst they were asleep.?
The obvious conclusion is that they could not allow an autopsy because of what would be revealed.
Evidence of physical injuries, sedation or sexual abuse would result in arrest and prosecution since none could be explained away.
This would also account for why the medical records were not released.
Evidence of injuries, UTI's etc and no visits to the hospital or GP.
The GMC would also be involved if they were self medicating and self prescribing.
If sexual abuse was present (likely the most obvious reason) then it points straight to gerry and also to the men of the tapas group and, given the previous statements from the Dr's Gaspar, david payne would be high on the list as well as matthew oldfield since he too checked on the children that Thurs. night (allegedly)
If it was recent then they could have blamed the paedophile abductor if Maddie had been found within days and, again, dependant on the condition of the body.
If the injuries were old and Maddie was found within a few days, again it points straight to gerry and anyone who had access to the children.
It would not account for a paedophile abductor since the injuries would be older than the timeline could account for.
Kate introduced the word MURDER when using the process of free editing.
Words are thought a microsecond before being spoken.
MURDER is what was at the forefront of kate's mind when she spoke.
This then precludes an accidental death, otherwise she would have said accidental death or even death.
Daily Mirror Interview.
Quote:
"They want me to lie - I'm being framed.
"Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming US
It is worth noting she takes ownership of lying and being framed ( the assumption is by the police but she doesn't tell us the police want her to lie or to frame her.
She could be referring to the members of the group including gerry)
The pronoun US shows unity and shared cooperation, often found when the guilty want to minimise their own role in the crime and spread the guilt - ask anyone with children and teenagers and the ever popular, everyone else was doing it as well excuse [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.])
Both kate and gerry and even clarrie have told us Maddie is dead, though not how or at whose hand, that I Can see, although the tapas group have indicated Maddie was bumped on the head (an active action, something done deliberately as opposed to having bumped her head which is passive and done accidentally)
They also leaked that there were several doctors in the group who could have resuscitated her.
This then indicates a violent action occurred, something that could not be explained away such as her falling and bumping her head such as off the sofa.
This would lead me to ask where the injury was, that it could not be explained away as an accident.
This would include things such as finger marks (remember the bruises on kate's arm) jewellery marks, the location of the injury etc.
Perhaps even to multiple injuries perhaps caused when someone loses their temper and beats the victim.
They may not have set out to kill the victim, they just couldn't stop themselves until they either exhausted themselves or were pulled away by someone (again the bruises on kate's arm and wrist)
Whatever the cause, whoever did it, the parents could not allow an autopsy to be performed because of the consequences to themselves.
If it was a member of the group, why would they not point the finger?
Their daughter killed by a family friend.
The guilt would lie solely with the guilty person not the parent.
They would have sympathy and even donations for the funeral.
Unless, of course they knew about said friend's 'little peccadilloes' in which case questions would be asked as to how much the knew, and why they allowed said person access to their children and then an investigation into whether they themselves had 'little peccadilloes'.
There is also the risk the guilty person would drop them in it as well, on the grounds of if I am going down, I am taking everyone else with me.
There is a huge secret being hidden, swinging it is not since no one cares what you do with your sex lives if it is legal and consensual, although you may find your friends who aren't into each other putting a lot of distance between them and you (and a good many more introducing themselves)
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by canada12 02.08.15 20:01
I agree with everything stated - and this has been my position too, from the very beginning. My opinion has never changed.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by whodunit 02.08.15 21:05
As always, this case reminds me of the Ramsey case. The Ramseys staged an abduction of a dead child but left the body to be found with evidence of sexual abuse present. The McCanns staged an abduction of a dead child but got rid of the body to avoid 'awkward' findings. In both cases, people came forward to give testimony that people close to the investigation were involved with pedophilia; in the Ramsey case, the specific allegations dealt with pedophilia on a level that was elite, organized, and for profit.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by whatsupdoc 14.10.15 15:12
I've not had time to read it all carefully, Hobs but will do later.
One thing that sticks out is the phrase "Thursday was the very last night they could have had the abduction, since on Friday they would be on their way home." This needs proof.
This has been quoted many times but has anyone seen the travel documents? They arrived on a Saturday so many holidays would go back on a Saturday but not guaranteed.
If you read my thread They've taken her...a possible explanation it would mean that Madelene's parents removed her from where she was staying with the McCanns all week. Since there would have been no actual 30 minute checks , the parents would have had ample time to get their daughter back. The McCanns will have dealt with Madeleine earlier in the week so they now treat the removal of Madelene as an abduction. Quick thinking by the McCanns and a hurried timeline or three composed. Also Gerry saying A Little girl has been taken.
Could a sighting of a man carrying a small child have been Madelene and her father?
Madelene could have known the McCanns before the holiday and they could have suggested that she stays with them so Madelene and Madeleine could play together. Was there an extra bed during the week in 5A?
I do believe at looking at every possible scenario and starting at square one.... and 1700 on 3rd May 2007 wasn't square one.
One thing that sticks out is the phrase "Thursday was the very last night they could have had the abduction, since on Friday they would be on their way home." This needs proof.
This has been quoted many times but has anyone seen the travel documents? They arrived on a Saturday so many holidays would go back on a Saturday but not guaranteed.
If you read my thread They've taken her...a possible explanation it would mean that Madelene's parents removed her from where she was staying with the McCanns all week. Since there would have been no actual 30 minute checks , the parents would have had ample time to get their daughter back. The McCanns will have dealt with Madeleine earlier in the week so they now treat the removal of Madelene as an abduction. Quick thinking by the McCanns and a hurried timeline or three composed. Also Gerry saying A Little girl has been taken.
Could a sighting of a man carrying a small child have been Madelene and her father?
Madelene could have known the McCanns before the holiday and they could have suggested that she stays with them so Madelene and Madeleine could play together. Was there an extra bed during the week in 5A?
I do believe at looking at every possible scenario and starting at square one.... and 1700 on 3rd May 2007 wasn't square one.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 14.10.15 17:28
Brilliant post Hobs, always a pleasure to read your analysis.
I agree with everything apart from the reason for the cover up, which I believe IS swinging, and not paedophilia.
This is for 2 reasons;
Firstly, as pointed out elsewhere, I think that sexual abuse or paedophilia would be apparent in a child. From the photographs we do have, what seems evident are happy children enjoying family time with their parents both in Donegal and on the very early stages of their holiday in Portugal. There are no haunted expressions or inward behaviour suggesting something more sinister going on.
Secondly, I tend to disagree with your reasoning for dismissing swinging as a reason for the cover up...... 'swinging it is not since no one cares what you do with your sex lives if it is legal and consensual'. With respect, swinging certainly does carry a stigma, and swingers want to keep what they do a secret. Careers, reputations, social standing, and preventing ridicule of their children would most certainly require anonymity. The narcissistic personalities are unquestionable and so protecting their image would be paramount. This may be a different mindset to 'lesser' swingers, but we are talking about professional people with ambitious career aspirations. Regarding the incumbents of the mystery, I cannot imagine patients in a hospital, or in a community medical practice, simply accepting that their consultant/GP was a swinger - this would be awkward for everyone concerned, patients, colleagues, and employers alike. Furthermore, in my experience, albeit limited, swingers (and I only know of one) generally do seek anonymity, a view which has been backed up on CMOMM by other respected posters.
IMO the above are the 2 main, and compelling reasons, to favour swinging over paedophilia. There are other pointers to swinging that have been raised but we do lack evidence.
I do feel like a broken down record by supporting swinging as the main backdrop to this mystery, and I have been criticised for doing so whilst lacking hard evidence, but your post has a reasoned approach and narrows down the possibilities, hence my response. I have not seen any better explanation of what happened and the reason for the cover up, and therefore swinging, for me, offers the best fit given what we know (or think we know!).
Thank you again Hobs, and hopefully one day soon the truth will out.
Just my thoughts.
I agree with everything apart from the reason for the cover up, which I believe IS swinging, and not paedophilia.
This is for 2 reasons;
Firstly, as pointed out elsewhere, I think that sexual abuse or paedophilia would be apparent in a child. From the photographs we do have, what seems evident are happy children enjoying family time with their parents both in Donegal and on the very early stages of their holiday in Portugal. There are no haunted expressions or inward behaviour suggesting something more sinister going on.
Secondly, I tend to disagree with your reasoning for dismissing swinging as a reason for the cover up...... 'swinging it is not since no one cares what you do with your sex lives if it is legal and consensual'. With respect, swinging certainly does carry a stigma, and swingers want to keep what they do a secret. Careers, reputations, social standing, and preventing ridicule of their children would most certainly require anonymity. The narcissistic personalities are unquestionable and so protecting their image would be paramount. This may be a different mindset to 'lesser' swingers, but we are talking about professional people with ambitious career aspirations. Regarding the incumbents of the mystery, I cannot imagine patients in a hospital, or in a community medical practice, simply accepting that their consultant/GP was a swinger - this would be awkward for everyone concerned, patients, colleagues, and employers alike. Furthermore, in my experience, albeit limited, swingers (and I only know of one) generally do seek anonymity, a view which has been backed up on CMOMM by other respected posters.
IMO the above are the 2 main, and compelling reasons, to favour swinging over paedophilia. There are other pointers to swinging that have been raised but we do lack evidence.
I do feel like a broken down record by supporting swinging as the main backdrop to this mystery, and I have been criticised for doing so whilst lacking hard evidence, but your post has a reasoned approach and narrows down the possibilities, hence my response. I have not seen any better explanation of what happened and the reason for the cover up, and therefore swinging, for me, offers the best fit given what we know (or think we know!).
Thank you again Hobs, and hopefully one day soon the truth will out.
Just my thoughts.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by j.rob 19.10.15 10:24
Evidence of physical injuries, sedation or sexual abuse would result in arrest and prosecution since none could be explained away.
This would also account for why the medical records were not released.
Evidence of injuries, UTI's etc and no visits to the hospital or GP.
The GMC would also be involved if they were self medicating and self prescribing.
If sexual abuse was present (likely the most obvious reason) then it points straight to gerry and also to the men of the tapas group and, given the previous statements from the Dr's Gaspar, david payne would be high on the list as well as matthew oldfield since he too checked on the children that Thurs. night (allegedly)
If it was recent then they could have blamed the paedophile abductor if Maddie had been found within days and, again, dependant on the condition of the body.
If the injuries were old and Maddie was found within a few days, again it points straight to gerry and anyone who had access to the children.
It would not account for a paedophile abductor since the injuries would be older than the timeline could account for.
Kate introduced the word MURDER when using the process of free editing.
Words are thought a microsecond before being spoken.
MURDER is what was at the forefront of kate's mind when she spoke.
This then precludes an accidental death, otherwise she would have said accidental death or even death.
Daily Mirror Interview.
=======
Brilliant post. I agree with pretty much everything. Especially the part above. I think we are talking dreaded paedo rings plus medical negligence at the very least plus also possibly some medical experimentation thrown into the pot. The politics of medicine can be very dirty.
This would also account for why the medical records were not released.
Evidence of injuries, UTI's etc and no visits to the hospital or GP.
The GMC would also be involved if they were self medicating and self prescribing.
If sexual abuse was present (likely the most obvious reason) then it points straight to gerry and also to the men of the tapas group and, given the previous statements from the Dr's Gaspar, david payne would be high on the list as well as matthew oldfield since he too checked on the children that Thurs. night (allegedly)
If it was recent then they could have blamed the paedophile abductor if Maddie had been found within days and, again, dependant on the condition of the body.
If the injuries were old and Maddie was found within a few days, again it points straight to gerry and anyone who had access to the children.
It would not account for a paedophile abductor since the injuries would be older than the timeline could account for.
Kate introduced the word MURDER when using the process of free editing.
Words are thought a microsecond before being spoken.
MURDER is what was at the forefront of kate's mind when she spoke.
This then precludes an accidental death, otherwise she would have said accidental death or even death.
Daily Mirror Interview.
=======
Brilliant post. I agree with pretty much everything. Especially the part above. I think we are talking dreaded paedo rings plus medical negligence at the very least plus also possibly some medical experimentation thrown into the pot. The politics of medicine can be very dirty.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 19.10.15 13:26
j.rob wrote:
Brilliant post. I agree with pretty much everything. Especially the part above. I think we are talking dreaded paedo rings plus medical negligence at the very least plus also possibly some medical experimentation thrown into the pot. The politics of medicine can be very dirty.
You may be right J.rob, but I think something less sinister is a better fit.
What we appear to have is;
Young attractive and successful people attending a holiday that is a bizarre choice to say the least.
The resort is at capacity out of season, with people of seemingly similar standing.
The MW resort is fully staffed out of season.
The weather is likely to be cold, so no swimming either in the pool of the sea, only creche facilities.
The nanny service is a full strength.
This all points to organised adult activity whilst the children are being looked after. It also explains very well why we are seeing wholesale smoke and mirrors wherever we look.
Another question I would ask of the wider holiday group is.....were there any teenagers present.....children of an inquisitive age that might be aware that something odd was going on ?
Going back to yours (and others) suggestion, paedophile 'rings' suggest a small group involved, not hundreds of people, and particularly not travelling abroad under the guise of a family holiday to partake of such an abhorrent crime. IMO they would be unlikely to go on a holiday if this were the aim, and so for me this points to the much less sinister, but still requiring anonymity, recreational pass time of swinging.
As for cause of death, Hobbs analysis is very much in keeping with my own thoughts. IMO MBM was struck in an fit of anger by someone very close to her, and she died unintentionally. If true, this may indeed explain certain bruises, and the necessity for concealment for the body. In addition, I consider that self medication of children is common amongst medics, and in order to guard against medical misconduct, this would provide another reason for concealment and prevention of the release of the medical records.
Therefore, my modified version is....
......I think we are talking an unintentional death occurring during in the early stages of a swinging holiday plus possible medical negligence.....
IMO of course.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by deafoldbat 21.10.15 8:24
In order to prompt such high level protection and government involvement, there must have been at least one very important person among them. (Whatever activity they were up to!)
I have always thought that this is the key to the case. IMHO
I have always thought that this is the key to the case. IMHO
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Ray_Sneek 21.10.15 9:19
Very possibly, but no-one has yet been able to identify who this VIP might be.deafoldbat wrote:In order to prompt such high level protection and government involvement, there must have been at least one very important person among them. (Whatever activity they were up to!)
I have always thought that this is the key to the case. IMHO
Could it be someone connected to the Knights Templars and/or the Symingtons (who are well connected to both royalty and the British political establishment?
Wreath left at the memorial cross, Rothley, May 2007, featuring the 'Cross of Constantine'
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Emblem of the Knights Templar, featuring the 'Cross of Constantine'
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Symington family emblem (Middle, top), featuring the 'Cross of Constantine'
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Stevo on the Truth For Madeleine site posted way back about a yacht registered to Prince Charles which he said left Praia da Luz on 3rd or 4th May, I can't find his original article though..
Maybe it was the mythical figure of the so-called 'Tenth Tapas'?
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Jill Havern 21.10.15 9:22
Is this the topic you mean, Ray? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by ChippyM 22.10.15 16:18
I have always personally believed child abuse is the strongest reason for a cover up in a case like this, although it might not be the only aspect. If the adults were swinging they might not want this to get out, if they were all taking drugs and one of the children whilst in some kind of group care situation ingested drugs and died, they wouldn't want it to get out. If the some of the children were abused and maybe filmed for profit they would obviously not want this to get out. If a child were sedated whilst they were filmed and then overdosed, obviously they would want to cover that up. It could be a combination of these scenarios and maybe some group members know more that others about what truly happened but have been convinced that their illegal activity is the reason to lie .
To me there has to be something that ties together the group and makes them willing to lie, as it seems obvious their accounts are contradictory. For government to be so involved it makes me think that if children were filmed maybe someone in a position of power liked to buy this stuff or distribute it which would connect them to the abusers.
I don't agree with what has been said here by Carry on Doctor,
"Firstly, as pointed out elsewhere, I think that sexual abuse or paedophilia would be apparent in a child. From the photographs we do have, what seems evident are happy children enjoying family time with their parents both in Donegal and on the very early stages of their holiday in Portugal. There are no haunted expressions or inward behaviour suggesting something more sinister going on. "
Many children and certainly ones that are 2, 3 or 4 will have no concept of what abuse or sex actually is. A photograph is one moment and cannot tell the whole story. even older children are attached to and love their abusers because they do not fully understand what is happening. 'happy' family situations and photos are used all the time by the defence in abuse cases, many children are very confused and know they don't like something but will be happy about other things such as going on holiday or having an icecream etc. If a young child was drugged when abuse was carried out maybe they wouldn't remember much at all.
I still have an inkling that when one of the adults was sick, something had happened. Was there a bad batch of drugs which would make an adult sick but make a child extremely ill and die? All this together with the Gaspar statement makes me suspect abuse, it may not even have been on that holiday but it was important to hide a body so that the abuse wasn't brought to light.
This is all just speculation and opinion obviously.
To me there has to be something that ties together the group and makes them willing to lie, as it seems obvious their accounts are contradictory. For government to be so involved it makes me think that if children were filmed maybe someone in a position of power liked to buy this stuff or distribute it which would connect them to the abusers.
I don't agree with what has been said here by Carry on Doctor,
"Firstly, as pointed out elsewhere, I think that sexual abuse or paedophilia would be apparent in a child. From the photographs we do have, what seems evident are happy children enjoying family time with their parents both in Donegal and on the very early stages of their holiday in Portugal. There are no haunted expressions or inward behaviour suggesting something more sinister going on. "
Many children and certainly ones that are 2, 3 or 4 will have no concept of what abuse or sex actually is. A photograph is one moment and cannot tell the whole story. even older children are attached to and love their abusers because they do not fully understand what is happening. 'happy' family situations and photos are used all the time by the defence in abuse cases, many children are very confused and know they don't like something but will be happy about other things such as going on holiday or having an icecream etc. If a young child was drugged when abuse was carried out maybe they wouldn't remember much at all.
I still have an inkling that when one of the adults was sick, something had happened. Was there a bad batch of drugs which would make an adult sick but make a child extremely ill and die? All this together with the Gaspar statement makes me suspect abuse, it may not even have been on that holiday but it was important to hide a body so that the abuse wasn't brought to light.
This is all just speculation and opinion obviously.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Guest 22.10.15 18:01
@ChippyM
I still have an inkling that when one of the adults was sick, something had happened. Was there a bad batch of drugs which would make an adult sick but make a child extremely ill and die.
I wonder if any of the adults were sick, as they claim. Perhaps their absence was due to some other reason.
I still have an inkling that when one of the adults was sick, something had happened. Was there a bad batch of drugs which would make an adult sick but make a child extremely ill and die.
I wonder if any of the adults were sick, as they claim. Perhaps their absence was due to some other reason.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by ChippyM 25.10.15 9:36
Ladyinred, I agree something happened when they were sick whether the adults were truly sick or not, it seems significant.
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Hobs blogspot 29/10/15: Giving thanks for nothing courtesy of the McCanns
by Guest 02.11.15 19:43
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We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt. We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in PDL leading up to Madeleine’s abduction in 2007.
Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced. We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry.
~Gerry and Kate McCann
Seriously?
Who thanks Law Enforcement for failing to find their missing loved one, in this case, a child called Madeleine, and for failing to make any arrests in relation to the disappearance (alleged abduction by paedophile according to the parents and supporters) of said child, Madeleine?
Guilty persons thank law enforcement for not finding their missing loved one or failing to make arrests for same.
They are thankful law enforcement failed as they get to remain free.
Innocent persons are not thankful when their loved one isn't found.
They are not thankful when no arrests are made in relation to their missing loved one.
What have they to be thankful for?
Their loved one is either still missing or, the guilty person or persons are still running around free, escaping justice.
Innocent people are furious their loved one has not been found.
They are raging the perpetrator has not been arrested and charged and cooling their heels in some prison cell for the rest of their miserable lives.
Anything short of finding their loved one and getting justice is simply not acceptable.
They refuse to understand why there is no progress in their case.
They refuse to accept the investigation is essentially completed, after all, how can it be essentially completed when their loved one is still missing and the perpetrator is still out there living a free life?
They will demand the case be kept open.
They will practically camp outside the station in order to know what is going on or, if they remember the slightest thing that could help find their loved one.
Doing nothing is not an option.
Shelving the case or winding it down is not an option, and most certainly not one to be greeted happily by the innocent parents.
If given the chance to keep the case open, YES is the only word expected to be said
Guilty persons however love it when cases go cold, investigations are wound down or shelved, it means they have gotten away with the crime.
They feel secure, confident even, that they won't be discovered and arrested anytime soon.
The longer the case goes unsolved, the less evidence there will be to incriminate them.
Granted they may have to be a bit more careful in their lives so as to not draw any unwanted attention, apart from that, they essentially get away Scot free.
They greet the shelving of the case with glee and, if offered the option of keeping the case open, say NO.
You may remember when mick philpott thanked the police and fire department, even to referring to them as gentlemen in the press conference relating to the murder (for that is what it was) of six of their children in an arson attack on their house, a fire set by their own parents and their friend.
At the time he was thankful as he believed he had gotten away literally with murder.
He couldn't even bring a real tear to his eyes, instead we had fake wiping of his eyes whilst his wife pulled weird faces pretending to be grief stricken.
In missing persons cases, especially when it is a child involved, there is expected language and behavior from parents when they are not involved in said disappearance.
It is consistent and predictable.
Ask yourself what you would do if it were your child or loved one that is missing?
This is the expected.
It is often claimed by the guilty, and even kate said so, there is no book to tell a parent how to behave when their child goes missing.
This may technically be correct (don't hold me to that as someone may well write a specific book)
However.
There are decades of records in countries all over the world that reveal the normal, consistent and expected behavior in such cases.
[b]In missing persons cases, especially when it is a child involved, there is expected language and behavior from parents when they are involved in said disappearance.[/b]
[b][b][b]This too is the expected.
The language and behavior is consistent, and even predictable at times.
It will however be unexpected when compared to that of innocent persons.[/b][/b][/b]
[b]
Anything that does not follow the path set by decades of innocent parents in a missing persons case, especially where a child is involved, where tens of thousands of cases have been investigated and solved resulting in guilty verdicts of the non parental perpetrator, is unexpected and thus flagged and further investigated.
Questions then arise as to why there is unexpected language and behavior from the parent.
Why do they have the need to be deceptive?
Is it down to guilt?
Guilty knowledge of the crime?
Guilt or guilty knowledge about something else not related to the crime such as perhaps infidelity, drugs, alcohol abuse, financial matters or other crimes?
Expected and unexpected language and behavior are always consistent.
They are mutually exclusive.
Why then were kate and gerry not only delighted when the original case was shelved due to lack of cooperation from the mccan's and chums, they are now thanking all the staff from Operation Grange and the home office for not only not finding their daughter Madeleine, they are thanking them for not making any arrests in relation to any part of the investigation.[/b]
[b]
Note no mention of the PJ.
They are, in fact, thanking the staff for getting absolutely nowhere in the case (as far as is known currently) after four and a half years and counting.[/b]
[b] [/b]
[b][b]Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine.
Really?
[/b][/b]
[b][b]For the last eight plus years and change, you have been loudly proclaiming to the world the exact opposite.
You have told the world that Madeleine was abducted from apartment 5A in PDL on may 3rd 2007.
In fact you actively pursued and litigated against anyone who claimed anything otherwise, even to suing the now retired lead detective Dr. Goncalo Amaral, a suit which is currently being appealed by Dr. Amaral in the Portuguese courts.
If, as you now claim, you don't know what happened to Madeleine, then surely it is possible, if not probable (if you look at the large amount of forensic evidence) that Madeleine was not abducted by a paedophile as you have claimed for so long, she did in fact die in apartment 5A sometimes during the week of your vacation and that you and at least one of the tapas 7 was involved in her death, subsequent disposal and filing of a false police report.
To claim you don't know what happened to Madeleine allows for other theories in relation to what happened to Madeleine during that week.
Heck even gerry told us:[/b][/b]
[b][b][b]"I don’t have a problem with somebody purporting a theory, writing fiction, suggestions"
[/b][/b][/b]
[b][b][b]Except when it contradicts your version of events, in which case you sue, or at least threaten to sue.
I disagree that you don't know what happened to Madeleine.
You kate and gerry, and yes, even clarrie your spokesman have all told the world Madeleine is dead.[/b][/b][/b]
[b][b]"Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us.[/b][/b][b][b]Kate said: "It really isn't easy," coping. "Some days are better than others. ... There's days when you think, 'I can't do this anymore,' and you just want to press a button, and we're all gone, and it's all finished, and we're all together and gone. Wherever. But you can't, you know. Just occasionally you'll have a -- if you're having a really bad day, which we do. And you can't help but think that."
The key word here being ALL.Gerry even posted a mea culpa on his blog[/b][/b]
[b][b] [/b][/b]"Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand."
"An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended."
"Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear."
[b][b]
Then gerry being who he is, he also told us
[/b][/b][b][b]"There's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's no evidence to implicate us in her death"
As well as [/b][/b][b][b]
[b] "Kate killed her in frenzy. Madeleine was sedated by us, she fell down the stairs, in which case you would have thought they'd have found her body.
I've heard all that.
What I want to know is, who told them all that?"
Who indeed gerry.
Remember also order is important, it tells us what is at the forefront of the subjects mind at that particular moment, it tells us what the priority is for the subject.Then we have the fragrant Clarrie telling us this:[/b][/b][/b]Clarence Mitchell: "I believe Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine's death"
Really, with a spokesman like that, who needs enemies?[b]
Let me ask you this kate and gerry.
On whose behalf are you being thankful for?
Yours or Madeleine's?
Would Madeleine be thankful for the case being scaled down?[/b]
[b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the investigation being effectively completed?[/b][b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the lack of progress made in the last four plus years?[/b][b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the current lack of arrests?[/b][b]Would Madeleine be thankful for not being found?[/b]
[b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the claimed clearer picture of what happened during that vacation and her subsequent disappearance?
Who is benefiting from this?
You kate and gerry, or Madeleine?
I know, and it isn't a name beginning with the letter M[/b]
Thursday, October 29, 2015
Giving Thanks For Nothing, Courtesy Of The mccanns
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ·
We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt. We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in PDL leading up to Madeleine’s abduction in 2007.
Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced. We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry.
~Gerry and Kate McCann
Seriously?
Who thanks Law Enforcement for failing to find their missing loved one, in this case, a child called Madeleine, and for failing to make any arrests in relation to the disappearance (alleged abduction by paedophile according to the parents and supporters) of said child, Madeleine?
Guilty persons thank law enforcement for not finding their missing loved one or failing to make arrests for same.
They are thankful law enforcement failed as they get to remain free.
Innocent persons are not thankful when their loved one isn't found.
They are not thankful when no arrests are made in relation to their missing loved one.
What have they to be thankful for?
Their loved one is either still missing or, the guilty person or persons are still running around free, escaping justice.
Innocent people are furious their loved one has not been found.
They are raging the perpetrator has not been arrested and charged and cooling their heels in some prison cell for the rest of their miserable lives.
Anything short of finding their loved one and getting justice is simply not acceptable.
They refuse to understand why there is no progress in their case.
They refuse to accept the investigation is essentially completed, after all, how can it be essentially completed when their loved one is still missing and the perpetrator is still out there living a free life?
They will demand the case be kept open.
They will practically camp outside the station in order to know what is going on or, if they remember the slightest thing that could help find their loved one.
Doing nothing is not an option.
Shelving the case or winding it down is not an option, and most certainly not one to be greeted happily by the innocent parents.
If given the chance to keep the case open, YES is the only word expected to be said
Guilty persons however love it when cases go cold, investigations are wound down or shelved, it means they have gotten away with the crime.
They feel secure, confident even, that they won't be discovered and arrested anytime soon.
The longer the case goes unsolved, the less evidence there will be to incriminate them.
Granted they may have to be a bit more careful in their lives so as to not draw any unwanted attention, apart from that, they essentially get away Scot free.
They greet the shelving of the case with glee and, if offered the option of keeping the case open, say NO.
You may remember when mick philpott thanked the police and fire department, even to referring to them as gentlemen in the press conference relating to the murder (for that is what it was) of six of their children in an arson attack on their house, a fire set by their own parents and their friend.
At the time he was thankful as he believed he had gotten away literally with murder.
He couldn't even bring a real tear to his eyes, instead we had fake wiping of his eyes whilst his wife pulled weird faces pretending to be grief stricken.
In missing persons cases, especially when it is a child involved, there is expected language and behavior from parents when they are not involved in said disappearance.
It is consistent and predictable.
Ask yourself what you would do if it were your child or loved one that is missing?
This is the expected.
It is often claimed by the guilty, and even kate said so, there is no book to tell a parent how to behave when their child goes missing.
This may technically be correct (don't hold me to that as someone may well write a specific book)
However.
There are decades of records in countries all over the world that reveal the normal, consistent and expected behavior in such cases.
[b]In missing persons cases, especially when it is a child involved, there is expected language and behavior from parents when they are involved in said disappearance.[/b]
[b][b][b]This too is the expected.
The language and behavior is consistent, and even predictable at times.
It will however be unexpected when compared to that of innocent persons.[/b][/b][/b]
[b]
Anything that does not follow the path set by decades of innocent parents in a missing persons case, especially where a child is involved, where tens of thousands of cases have been investigated and solved resulting in guilty verdicts of the non parental perpetrator, is unexpected and thus flagged and further investigated.
Questions then arise as to why there is unexpected language and behavior from the parent.
Why do they have the need to be deceptive?
Is it down to guilt?
Guilty knowledge of the crime?
Guilt or guilty knowledge about something else not related to the crime such as perhaps infidelity, drugs, alcohol abuse, financial matters or other crimes?
Expected and unexpected language and behavior are always consistent.
They are mutually exclusive.
Why then were kate and gerry not only delighted when the original case was shelved due to lack of cooperation from the mccan's and chums, they are now thanking all the staff from Operation Grange and the home office for not only not finding their daughter Madeleine, they are thanking them for not making any arrests in relation to any part of the investigation.[/b]
[b]
Note no mention of the PJ.
They are, in fact, thanking the staff for getting absolutely nowhere in the case (as far as is known currently) after four and a half years and counting.[/b]
[b] [/b]
[b][b]Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine.
Really?
[/b][/b]
[b][b]For the last eight plus years and change, you have been loudly proclaiming to the world the exact opposite.
You have told the world that Madeleine was abducted from apartment 5A in PDL on may 3rd 2007.
In fact you actively pursued and litigated against anyone who claimed anything otherwise, even to suing the now retired lead detective Dr. Goncalo Amaral, a suit which is currently being appealed by Dr. Amaral in the Portuguese courts.
If, as you now claim, you don't know what happened to Madeleine, then surely it is possible, if not probable (if you look at the large amount of forensic evidence) that Madeleine was not abducted by a paedophile as you have claimed for so long, she did in fact die in apartment 5A sometimes during the week of your vacation and that you and at least one of the tapas 7 was involved in her death, subsequent disposal and filing of a false police report.
To claim you don't know what happened to Madeleine allows for other theories in relation to what happened to Madeleine during that week.
Heck even gerry told us:[/b][/b]
[b][b][b]"I don’t have a problem with somebody purporting a theory, writing fiction, suggestions"
[/b][/b][/b]
[b][b][b]Except when it contradicts your version of events, in which case you sue, or at least threaten to sue.
I disagree that you don't know what happened to Madeleine.
You kate and gerry, and yes, even clarrie your spokesman have all told the world Madeleine is dead.[/b][/b][/b]
[b][b]"Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us.[/b][/b][b][b]Kate said: "It really isn't easy," coping. "Some days are better than others. ... There's days when you think, 'I can't do this anymore,' and you just want to press a button, and we're all gone, and it's all finished, and we're all together and gone. Wherever. But you can't, you know. Just occasionally you'll have a -- if you're having a really bad day, which we do. And you can't help but think that."
The key word here being ALL.Gerry even posted a mea culpa on his blog[/b][/b]
[b][b] [/b][/b]"Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand."
"An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended."
"Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear."
[b][b]
Then gerry being who he is, he also told us
[/b][/b][b][b]"There's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's no evidence to implicate us in her death"
As well as [/b][/b][b][b]
[b] "Kate killed her in frenzy. Madeleine was sedated by us, she fell down the stairs, in which case you would have thought they'd have found her body.
I've heard all that.
What I want to know is, who told them all that?"
Who indeed gerry.
Remember also order is important, it tells us what is at the forefront of the subjects mind at that particular moment, it tells us what the priority is for the subject.Then we have the fragrant Clarrie telling us this:[/b][/b][/b]Clarence Mitchell: "I believe Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine's death"
Really, with a spokesman like that, who needs enemies?[b]
Let me ask you this kate and gerry.
On whose behalf are you being thankful for?
Yours or Madeleine's?
Would Madeleine be thankful for the case being scaled down?[/b]
[b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the investigation being effectively completed?[/b][b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the lack of progress made in the last four plus years?[/b][b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the current lack of arrests?[/b][b]Would Madeleine be thankful for not being found?[/b]
[b]Would Madeleine be thankful for the claimed clearer picture of what happened during that vacation and her subsequent disappearance?
Who is benefiting from this?
You kate and gerry, or Madeleine?
I know, and it isn't a name beginning with the letter M[/b]
Guest- Guest
Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by NickE 02.12.15 12:00
Thinking out loud.
Something that bothers me in this case is that no one has shown real grief from day 1
Why crocodile tears?
Why are Gerry laughing on the balcony?
Why are they out jogging and playing tennis?
Eating and drinking wine in a restaurant?
Doesn't make sense.
I think like many others that something happened to Madeleine, Sunday evening / Monday night,but what?
Are her parents cold-blooded killers without conscience?
I do not think so, but I am sure that they know what has happened and how does this fit with their behavior?
Perhaps we can find the answer in her medical records that were not released.
Mr Amaral said there were signs that she was ill, but how ill?
incurable illness?
IF her illness was incurable, the motive may have been euthanasia OR these doctors may have tried a non-approved medicine for her illness.
Did they felt a relief that the pain for their daughter was gone and she came to God?
Was it because of this they could do jogging,tennis,quiz night´s,drinking wine and laughing?
Something that bothers me in this case is that no one has shown real grief from day 1
Why crocodile tears?
Why are Gerry laughing on the balcony?
Why are they out jogging and playing tennis?
Eating and drinking wine in a restaurant?
Doesn't make sense.
I think like many others that something happened to Madeleine, Sunday evening / Monday night,but what?
Are her parents cold-blooded killers without conscience?
I do not think so, but I am sure that they know what has happened and how does this fit with their behavior?
Perhaps we can find the answer in her medical records that were not released.
Mr Amaral said there were signs that she was ill, but how ill?
incurable illness?
IF her illness was incurable, the motive may have been euthanasia OR these doctors may have tried a non-approved medicine for her illness.
Did they felt a relief that the pain for their daughter was gone and she came to God?
Was it because of this they could do jogging,tennis,quiz night´s,drinking wine and laughing?
____________________
Goncalo Amaral: "Then there's the window we found Kate's finger prints.
She said she had never touched that window and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day....it doesn't add up"
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Tony Bennett 02.12.15 13:11
@ NickE I always find your posts of especial interest.NickE wrote:Thinking out loud.
I think like many others that something happened to Madeleine, Sunday evening / Monday night, but what?
Perhaps we can find the answer in her medical records that were not released. Mr Amaral said there were signs that she was ill, but how ill?
Incurable illness? IF her illness was incurable...
However, on this occasion, I would respectfully suggest to you that we should all abandon the idea that Madeleine was 'ill'.
First, if one looks at any or all of the videos featuring Madeleine, I see a child who looks happy, carefree, lively, talkative, with a good vocabulary of her age, and so on. I invite anyone to produce a video featuring Madeleine which suggests any thing different.
She looks well fed in those videos, healthy vibrant, and well looked after.
Second, we have the evidence from Saturday 28 April and (arguably) Sunday 29 April in front of us:
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Saturday, 28 April, around 6pm, playing happily with her father in the Ocean Club playground
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One of two photos of Madeleine by the Wendy House,
Saturday, 28 April,around 6pm: she is having fun
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A happy, nearly 4-year-old, sharing a joke about
something off camera, almost certainly, going by
a welter of forensic and circumstantial evidence, taken
between 1.30pm and 2.30pm on Sunday, 29 April
On the evidence of these photos, plus the two airport bus videos, you would undoubtedly conclude that Madeleine was a happy, active, well turned-out young girl, who looks a credit to her parents.
Admittedly there may have been some health concerns early on.
Admittedly she may have had a coloboma.
But looking at all the videos of Madeleine and the four pics of her in Praia da Luz on Saturday 28th and Sunday 29th, there is not even a hint of any illness or problem.
-------------------------
So either she was abducted, OR...something very nasty indeed must have happened to her pretty suddenly...
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Investigator
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 02.12.15 13:16
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We were possibly seeing a display of relief (that the performance is over) and ongoing nervousness about being found out.
If you are correct about something happening early on, then initial shock/grieving may have already taken place.
GM's mantra is to move on.
IMO
We were possibly seeing a display of relief (that the performance is over) and ongoing nervousness about being found out.
If you are correct about something happening early on, then initial shock/grieving may have already taken place.
GM's mantra is to move on.
IMO
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by j.rob 02.12.15 15:07
NickE wrote:Thinking out loud.
Something that bothers me in this case is that no one has shown real grief from day 1
Why crocodile tears?
Why are Gerry laughing on the balcony?
Why are they out jogging and playing tennis?
Eating and drinking wine in a restaurant?
Doesn't make sense.
I think like many others that something happened to Madeleine, Sunday evening / Monday night,but what?
Are her parents cold-blooded killers without conscience?
I do not think so, but I am sure that they know what has happened and how does this fit with their behavior?
Perhaps we can find the answer in her medical records that were not released.
Mr Amaral said there were signs that she was ill, but how ill?
incurable illness?
IF her illness was incurable, the motive may have been euthanasia OR these doctors may have tried a non-approved medicine for her illness.
Did they felt a relief that the pain for their daughter was gone and she came to God?
Was it because of this they could do jogging,tennis,quiz night´s,drinking wine and laughing?
If Madeleine was not Gerry's biological child, I think this might go quite a long way to explaining how she might have become, tragically, surplus to requirements when a ready-made boy and girl family came along 18 months later who were Gerry's biological children.
The parents have both told us that Madeleine was demanding as a baby as she had colic for the first five months and also was not a good sleeper. Detective Amaral found a sleep star chart which interested him which of course would suggest that at the time of the holiday Madeleine still needed incentives to stay in bed at night.
When the twins were born Madeleine was only 18 months old. This is an incredibly demanding age. Unless there was very good family help or great childcare it would be only natural that Madeleine would be extra-demanding when two siblings arrive to take her parent's attention. Gerry, of course, could have played a vital role here but I see no evidence of his having bonded with Madeleine and little evidence of him enjoying spending time with his children (and wife?)
I suspect Kate was overwhelmed by the demands of an 18 month year old and newborn twins. And neither Kate or Gerry (especially Gerry) came from a background where you hired help to look after children. I suspect Gerry's pockets were sown up when it came to childcare or spending money on his family generally. So Kate would have been expected to put up and shut up. No "molly-coddling" allowed in the way of nannies, au-pairs, babysitters or any of that nonsense!
So this working professional couple made do with the most elementary of help - a cleaner who also helped with childcare once the twins were born, members of family to occasionally babysit in the evening and a day care nursery several days a week for Madeleine after the twins were born. This is minimal help for twin babies and a toddler - especially if, as I suspect, one or both parents are on the narcissistic spectrum.
We know that one of Detective Amaral's questions to Kate was had she ever considered giving up the care of Madeleine to relatives. I wonder what illness Madeleine had, if any? it is interested that her medical notes weren't released.
I think the couple couldn't cope after the arrival of the twins. Madeleine became the scapegoat. Rather than handing over her care to third parties, which would not bring in any cash, a plan was hatched with the goal being The Fund and roles as Ambassadors for missing children.
There was a last minute "disaster" or even several "disasters" as the plot was botched, bungled and/or deliberately sabotaged.
I think the Gaspers were right. There were rings operating and I'm not talking about fairy rings. Kate adopted an ostrich approach, imo. Someone or several people lost their tempers that week. But for different reasons.
Madeleine early on that week woke up very distressed. Kate failed to establish exactly what had distressed her so. Gerry lost his temper. A Tapas member used the word: "clobber" in his rogatory. A collective decision was taken to follow a certain line of action (or inaction). It was a pretty desperate move but to put hands up was not seen as an option.
The show went on the road, albeit shoe-horned into the old script as third parties pulled out at the last minute, imo. The full weight of the State came behind TM to protect various interests and prevent a huge scandal.
Only an 'inner sanctum' knew what had happened originally (Tapas minus Webster?) A wider sanctum knew about the McScam but not - at least initially - about 'the disaster'. I suspect that as time went on 'the disaster' was sanitized to make it appear as though Madeleine had died in a tragic accident and there was sympathy because people thought: 'there but for the grace of God.' When awkward questions were asked early on by family members, I suspect Gerry lost his temper and relatives were dispatched from Luz on the Granny Express.
The sheeple were expected to keep reading The Sun and watching Sky News and believe in the big bad bogey-man who steals photogenic girls from their beds at night and whisks them away to hellish liars whereupon they might be rescued in due course to great public fan-fare (a la Elizabeth Smart in the US).
. In the early days the McScam seemed to have pulled off but now - judging by public opinion - the wheels have pretty much fallen off the wagon. The McScam has remarkably little public support apart from a few pretty rabid shills. Pinkie is an embarrassment. Operation Grange is a joke. But how to wind it all up? And what has happened to Rupert Murdoch, last spotted in the media on the arm of photogenic Gerry Hall? Will he and Gerry be partaking in a celebrity style wedding some time soon? Might just take the spotlight off other stuff and could be heavily featured in all his papers?
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by j.rob 02.12.15 15:34
Carrry On Doctor wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
We were possibly seeing a display of relief (that the performance is over) and ongoing nervousness about being found out.
If you are correct about something happening early on, then initial shock/grieving may have already taken place.
GM's mantra is to move on.
IMO
Kate in media interview states that the first 48 hours you are non-functioning. I suspect she was non-functioning on Sunday and Monday or Monday and Tuesday. By Wednesday she was functioning enough to prepare for an abduction the following day, ie: Thursday.
With regards to Madeleine's health, if indeed she did have a coloboma (and her passport does not state that she did, merely dark fleks in the Iris) then that can be associated with other health problems.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 02.12.15 16:49
j.rob wrote:Carrry On Doctor wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
We were possibly seeing a display of relief (that the performance is over) and ongoing nervousness about being found out.
If you are correct about something happening early on, then initial shock/grieving may have already taken place.
GM's mantra is to move on.
IMO
Kate in media interview states that the first 48 hours you are non-functioning. I suspect she was non-functioning on Sunday and Monday or Monday and Tuesday. By Wednesday she was functioning enough to prepare for an abduction the following day, ie: Thursday.
With regards to Madeleine's health, if indeed she did have a coloboma (and her passport does not state that she did, merely dark fleks in the Iris) then that can be associated with other health problems.
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Excellent point @j.rob
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by loopzdaloop 31.12.15 1:29
Imo:
The cover up would have been due to the fear an autopsy would turn up evidence of medication misuse in her hair.
They would have lost their jobs, due to illicit prescribing (note the questions asked to the family GP) and would also have lost their children that they so 'desperately' wanted due to child abuse. I think M fell off the back of the sofa, cracked her head open and the parents were too pissed up to notice, hence finding her when dead and unable to resuscitate.
The cover up would have been due to the fear an autopsy would turn up evidence of medication misuse in her hair.
They would have lost their jobs, due to illicit prescribing (note the questions asked to the family GP) and would also have lost their children that they so 'desperately' wanted due to child abuse. I think M fell off the back of the sofa, cracked her head open and the parents were too pissed up to notice, hence finding her when dead and unable to resuscitate.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 31.12.15 9:20
loopzdaloop wrote:Imo:
The cover up would have been due to the fear an autopsy would turn up evidence of medication misuse in her hair.
They would have lost their jobs, due to illicit prescribing (note the questions asked to the family GP) and would also have lost their children that they so 'desperately' wanted due to child abuse. I think M fell off the back of the sofa, cracked her head open and the parents were too pissed up to notice, hence finding her when dead and unable to resuscitate.
Illicit prescribing and consequential avoidance of an autopsy is a strong possibility, but not on its own IMO.
Wholesale lying has been revealed along with numerous (still unchallenged to date) discrepancies that support something happening much earlier than the popular belief of the 3rd. If true, others attending PDL that week are very likely to be complicit by their knowledge and/or actions/inactions.
If an incident was just isolated to TM's, why would so many people, seemingly unconnected to the core group, be prepared to assist ?
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by kaz 31.12.15 10:58
Most likely it all has nothing to do with swinging or paedophilia. Since there were so many doctors involved I have come to believe the ‘holiday’ was a freebie organised by a leading pharmaceutical company. If this became public knowledge it would reveal exactly what these drug companies are willing to do to get their products available on the NHS...all highly illegal of course. We all know what immense financial power these companies exert over the government as well.
The fact that the apartment was cleaned so thoroughly suggests a DNA disclosure problem and I keep coming back to the question, ‘ What was it about Madeleine’s DNA that needed to remain secret?’ Incidentally Leicester University is home to leading genetic research and of course where Alec Jeffreys came up with DNA fingerprinting.
The bottom line for me is an accidental death that could have caused a government downfall if the public had a whiff of just what was and is still being carried out by these huge pharmaceutical conglomerates. We’re talking billions of pounds of potential losses here and we all know how money talks. Just my New Year's Eve musings.
The fact that the apartment was cleaned so thoroughly suggests a DNA disclosure problem and I keep coming back to the question, ‘ What was it about Madeleine’s DNA that needed to remain secret?’ Incidentally Leicester University is home to leading genetic research and of course where Alec Jeffreys came up with DNA fingerprinting.
The bottom line for me is an accidental death that could have caused a government downfall if the public had a whiff of just what was and is still being carried out by these huge pharmaceutical conglomerates. We’re talking billions of pounds of potential losses here and we all know how money talks. Just my New Year's Eve musings.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Tony Bennett 31.12.15 11:34
The presence in Praia da Luz of Dr Paul Jerome Weinberger the very same week as the McCanns tends to support your musings.kaz wrote:Most likely it all has nothing to do with swinging or paedophilia. Since there were so many doctors involved I have come to believe the ‘holiday’ was a freebie organised by a leading pharmaceutical company. If this became public knowledge it would reveal exactly what these drug companies are willing to do to get their products available on the NHS...all highly illegal of course. We all know what immense financial power these companies exert over the government as well.
The fact that the apartment was cleaned so thoroughly suggests a DNA disclosure problem and I keep coming back to the question, ‘ What was it about Madeleine’s DNA that needed to remain secret?’ Incidentally Leicester University is home to leading genetic research and of course where Alec Jeffreys came up with DNA fingerprinting.
The bottom line for me is an accidental death that could have caused a government downfall if the public had a whiff of just what was and is still being carried out by these huge pharmaceutical conglomerates. We’re talking billions of pounds of potential losses here and we all know how money talks. Just my New Year's Eve musings.
He was in 2007 a top flyer in Enigma Diagnostics, a Government-sponsored company now based in the top secret Ministry of Defence establishment at Porton Down, Wiltshire, where research into biological and germ warfare, chemical warfare, radiological and nuclear warfare etc. continues. And he dined every night at the Ocean club with his close professional friend Dr Julian Totman, who conveniently lives just down the road from Porton Down in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Weinberger now (a) owns and runs Diasolve, (b) is on the powerful National Institute of Clinical Excellence (N.I.C.E.) which approves, or rejects, which drugs are to be paid for by the N.H.S., and (c) is past Chairman, now Committee member, of BIVDA (British In Vitro Diagnostics Association). In short, he is a very influential and powerful bloke in these circles.
His links to genetic research, and eugenics, cloning and assorted 'bioengineering' techniques are strong - certainly providing a link with the McCanns' IVF treatment.
And yes, the absence of Madeleine's DNA in Praia da Luz remains one of the hugest 'stand-out' mysteries - in this case of mysteries upon mysteries.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by kaz 31.12.15 14:43
I also
have wondered in the past whether the hire cars were a 'holiday' perk when I noticed that a previous GSK employee had used a certain Renault Scenic on the 2nd April 2007.
have wondered in the past whether the hire cars were a 'holiday' perk when I noticed that a previous GSK employee had used a certain Renault Scenic on the 2nd April 2007.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 31.12.15 15:39
Very Interesting [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] & @TB, but I would have thought that a medical gathering / conference type event would have been easily confirmed from the outset ? The resort was full to capacity out of season so surely the many attending would be able to produce invitations, booking details, itineraries etc etc. I'm just not sure that inviting doctors on a freebie is that underhand...AFAIK medical reps routinely give presents to doctors ? I am not belittling this theory, just questioning that this type of thing is actually as cloak and dagger as you suggest.
The forensic cleaning of the apartment suggests to me the straightforward concealment of a crime scene rather than something untoward in MBM's genetic make-up.
You make fair points and Happy New Year when it comes !
The forensic cleaning of the apartment suggests to me the straightforward concealment of a crime scene rather than something untoward in MBM's genetic make-up.
You make fair points and Happy New Year when it comes !
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by loopzdaloop 31.12.15 20:55
Carrry On Doctor wrote:loopzdaloop wrote:Imo:
The cover up would have been due to the fear an autopsy would turn up evidence of medication misuse in her hair.
They would have lost their jobs, due to illicit prescribing (note the questions asked to the family GP) and would also have lost their children that they so 'desperately' wanted due to child abuse. I think M fell off the back of the sofa, cracked her head open and the parents were too pissed up to notice, hence finding her when dead and unable to resuscitate.
Illicit prescribing and consequential avoidance of an autopsy is a strong possibility, but not on its own IMO.
Wholesale lying has been revealed along with numerous (still unchallenged to date) discrepancies that support something happening much earlier than the popular belief of the 3rd. If true, others attending PDL that week are very likely to be complicit by their knowledge and/or actions/inactions.
If an incident was just isolated to TM's, why would so many people, seemingly unconnected to the core group, be prepared to assist ?
I think they were prepared to cooperate due to shared experience
1) of how long it takes to train and become a GP
2) of misuse of medication to drug children (a feeling that it could have been any of them)
3) friendships.
I wonder how much of the story they actually knew though...
I bet that they didn't know M died, but knew they had all neglected the children that evening 'as it will be fine, we do it all the time'.
Perhaps this is why the put themselves quickly in front of the bullet by colluding on the timings of when people went back and forth from the table before knowing the full story - by then they have committed perjury so its difficult to go back on.
Yet at the same time, the Gaspar Statements and the 'empty file' held by on Gerry do ring the other alarm bells.
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by woggo 31.12.15 21:28
kaz wrote:Most likely it all has nothing to do with swinging or paedophilia. Since there were so many doctors involved I have come to believe the ‘holiday’ was a freebie organised by a leading pharmaceutical company. If this became public knowledge it would reveal exactly what these drug companies are willing to do to get their products available on the NHS...all highly illegal of course. We all know what immense financial power these companies exert over the government as well.
The fact that the apartment was cleaned so thoroughly suggests a DNA disclosure problem and I keep coming back to the question, ‘ What was it about Madeleine’s DNA that needed to remain secret?’ Incidentally Leicester University is home to leading genetic research and of course where Alec Jeffreys came up with DNA fingerprinting.
The bottom line for me is an accidental death that could have caused a government downfall if the public had a whiff of just what was and is still being carried out by these huge pharmaceutical conglomerates. We’re talking billions of pounds of potential losses here and we all know how money talks. Just my New Year's Eve musings.
Kaz I totally agree.
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by Tony Bennett 01.01.16 10:16
@ Carry On Doctor Agreed, there are many possibilities, and I was by no means suggesting that there was anything amounting to persuasive evidence that there was some kind of bioengineering/genetics/cloning/eugenics plot.Carrry On Doctor wrote:Very Interesting [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] & @TB, but I would have thought that a medical gathering / conference type event would have been easily confirmed from the outset ? The resort was full to capacity out of season so surely the many attending would be able to produce invitations, booking details, itineraries etc etc. I'm just not sure that inviting doctors on a freebie is that underhand...AFAIK medical reps routinely give presents to doctors ? I am not belittling this theory, just questioning that this type of thing is actually as cloak and dagger as you suggest.
The forensic cleaning of the apartment suggests to me the straightforward concealment of a crime scene rather than something untoward in MBM's genetic make-up.
Nevertheless we do have to grapple with the meaning of Gerry McCann's angry retort to his great friend Dr David Payne: 'F___ off, I'm not here to enjoy myself" and we do have to account, if we can, for the presence of such mighty men as top IVF and genetics man Dr Paul Weinberger and Philip Edmonds, Director of one of the world's largets steel companies and the nephew of Lady 'I-covered-up-child-abuse-in-Islington' Margaret Hodge.
One of the great benefits of this forum, sadly unappreciated by too many people, is the resources we can find by using the 'search' function and looking up what many other dedicated researchers have thought about various topics from time to time.
Here is a relevant contribution from 'Cheshire Cat' re Dr Paul Weinberger and others way back in October 2010, which I've taken off the shelves and blown the dust off:
===================================
QUOTE
I spend quite a bit of time looking at the guest lists and the name that always stands out for me is Weinberger. Paul Weinberger's presence, based on his career and expertise, leads me to suspect that a group of people were present in the Ocean Club to discuss the launch of an innovative new medical product or 'spin out' company. Perhaps Gerry McCann was there not to enjoy himself (as he stated on the airport bus) but as the inventor or co-inventor of an innovative medical product that needed the backing of venture capital and business know-how, in order to succeed. The common ground between McCann and Weinberger is in the field of diagnostics and Weinberger has business and regulatory knowledge (there is tons of material about Weinberger on the internet!).
There were also a couple of bankers present and I found an interesting snippet about Michal Janczur who was a city of London banker in May 2007 (he since seems to have set his own limited company up). The snippet is from his MySpace page. Like many he probably set this up and then forgot all about it in favour of Facebook. He had two children at the Ocean Club which would mean that the MySpace page dates from a period before the Ocean Club trip. I wonder if the meeting at the Ocean Club was a business opportunity for Michal Janczur?
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Assuming the group of Doctors and business people were there for business and not pleasure, the planned discussions / conference must have been stopped in its tracks on the weekend of 29/30 April. I guess the weekend was a time to relax a little and enjoy some golf before the work of the week ahead. If something happened to Madeleine on the weekend of 29/30 April and the meeting had to be cancelled, what were all these people told had happened? If the scenario was one of a business meeting and not a holiday does this make Brian Kennedy's presence at the Ocean Club more likely?
The big cover-up seems to be portraying the McCann's as part of a small group of Brits abroad and covering up the real reason for the larger group being at the O.C.
Once this fantasy holiday had been dreamed up it was far easier to tap into the psyche of ordinary folk back home in the UK.
UNQUOTE
P.S. Welcome to new member 'Woggo'
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann
by Carrry On Doctor 01.01.16 13:38
Thank you for your post Tony. Happy New Year to you and to all readers of CMOMM.
The post from Cheshire Cat is very interesting;
The attendance of Weinberger, Edmonds et al is further evidence of the 'odd fit' between the status of the persons attending this OC, and its status as a holiday destination. So much so that it would be reasonable to rule out it being a normal holiday with chance meetings. In light of the OC being at capacity (out of season) we can safely conclude this was an organised event. That week, the OC served principally as a venue, not a resort.
Textusa, has also alluded to the 'F**k off' comment as having significance to the aim of the trip. In previous posts (as I recall) Textusa suggests that GM is nervous about meeting someone of importance in PDL. Perhaps this prompted such a distasteful response in front of the children (or maybe its just his total lack of class and breeding). I understand that Textusa will elaborate further on this in 2016, so in light of her great work in helping to reveal the truth of Wojchiech Krokowski, that article will be very interesting read.
A medical / business aspect of the trip is a very real possibility, but for me it still doesn't fully explain the huge attendance at OC that week, the breathtaking lengths that seemingly unconnected people have gone to to lie about their activities, and the absolute need for anonymity.
Returning to the Cheshire Cat post, I particularly concur with the final sentence;
"Once this fantasy holiday had been dreamed up it was far easier to tap into the psyche of ordinary folk back home in the UK."
The post from Cheshire Cat is very interesting;
The attendance of Weinberger, Edmonds et al is further evidence of the 'odd fit' between the status of the persons attending this OC, and its status as a holiday destination. So much so that it would be reasonable to rule out it being a normal holiday with chance meetings. In light of the OC being at capacity (out of season) we can safely conclude this was an organised event. That week, the OC served principally as a venue, not a resort.
Textusa, has also alluded to the 'F**k off' comment as having significance to the aim of the trip. In previous posts (as I recall) Textusa suggests that GM is nervous about meeting someone of importance in PDL. Perhaps this prompted such a distasteful response in front of the children (or maybe its just his total lack of class and breeding). I understand that Textusa will elaborate further on this in 2016, so in light of her great work in helping to reveal the truth of Wojchiech Krokowski, that article will be very interesting read.
A medical / business aspect of the trip is a very real possibility, but for me it still doesn't fully explain the huge attendance at OC that week, the breathtaking lengths that seemingly unconnected people have gone to to lie about their activities, and the absolute need for anonymity.
Returning to the Cheshire Cat post, I particularly concur with the final sentence;
"Once this fantasy holiday had been dreamed up it was far easier to tap into the psyche of ordinary folk back home in the UK."
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