JFK Assassination Records - 2017 Additional Documents Release

Opened at the request of sallypelt

Ty, Tony. I will start this thread off, by asking readers of this thread, if they have seen the film JFK, and what are their views on the film, and if there are any questions that were raised in that film that you would like to know more about?

sallypelt wrote:Ty, Tony. I will start this thread off, by asking readers of this thread, if they have seen the film JFK, and what are their views on the film, and if there are any questions that were raised in that film that you would like to know more about?

No, I have not seen it, but I have these questions:

1. How many bullets were fired?

2. Where from (approximately)?

3. And if not fired be Lee Harvey Oswald, what sort of person did fire them...

4. ...and if so, for what reason?

Tony Bennett wrote:

sallypelt wrote:Ty, Tony. I will start this thread off, by asking readers of this thread, if they have seen the film JFK, and what are their views on the film, and if there are any questions that were raised in that film that you would like to know more about?

No, I have not seen it, but I have these questions:

1. How many bullets were fired?

2. Where from (approximately)?

3. And if not fired be Lee Harvey Oswald, what sort of person did fire them...

4. ...and if so, for what reason?

Q 1

According to sound analysis, carried out by a British organisation, they found "at least four shots" were fired. But we have to remember that a few of the shots were at the EXACT time of other shots. Some reports state there were as much as 11 shots in total, but I keep an open mind on this claim.

 
Q 2

80% of those at the Dealey Plaza, that day, said the fatal shot came from the "grassy knoll". These witnesses were never called to give testimony at the Warren Commision Inquiry,  Many died in mysterious circumstances, and some disappeared, never to be seen again. At least 2 shots came from the Texas School Book Depository.

 Moreover, Allen Dulles (CIA member) was a member on the Warren Commision inquiry, and it was no secret that Dullas hated JFK with a vengeance, and Dulles made no secret of this fact. As many will know, JFK fired Dulles over the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

As for the person who delivered the fatal shot, to date, I believe it was delivered by Jim Files, but more work needs to be done, and at the moment, I am in “the Jim Files did it” camp For more information on Jim Files, just Google Jim Files JFK.

 

Question 4, "for what reason".

 

I have mentioned the Bay of Pigs, but there were many reasons why they wanted Kennedy dead. For example, Kennedy made no secret of the fact that he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces”.

 

This is just some insignificant information, in the scheme of things, as this saga is HUGE, and SCARY.

 There are so many threads to this assassination, that one wouldn't know where to begin. However, here are a few names for those interested in this case, to get their teeth into. At first, you may ask yourself "what have these people got to do with the JFK assassination. All I can say it, keep with it, and when you get to the bottom of it, you may be wishing you hadn't

 

A few names to get your interests going:

David Ferrie.  Find out who he was. Dig deep

Dr Mary Sherman, and her involvement in the polio vaccine.

Lee Harvey Oswald. Find out what he was doing in New Orleans when his wife and child was back home in Texas. In the JFK film, Jim Garrison (played by Kevin Costner) ask this very question, what was Oswald doing there. And he wasn't there to hand out anti Castro leaflets.

Jack Ruby. What was his involvement in all this, other than to shot LHO? Why was Ruby outside the Dallas hospital where they took JFK after he was shot? Where did Ruby come from that day?  There are claims that Ruby was at the Dealey Plaza, and after the killing of JFK, "threw a package into a car, got in the car, and drove away. This getaway was close to the Triple Tunnel bypass. Again, do your own research, and see what you find.

sallypelt wrote:
There are so many threads to this assassination, that one wouldn't know where to begin. However, here are a few names for those interested in this case, to get their teeth into. At first, you may ask yourself "what have these people got to do with the JFK assassination. All I can say it, keep with it, and when you get to the bottom of it, you may be wishing you hadn't


A few names to get your interests going:

David Ferrie.  Find out who he was. Dig deep

Dr Mary Sherman, and her involvement in the polio vaccine.

Lee Harvey Oswald. Find out what he was doing in New Orleans when his wife and child was back home in Texas. In the JFK film, Jim Garrison (played by Kevin Costner) ask this very question, what was Oswald doing there. And he wasn't there to hand out anti Castro leaflets.

Jack Ruby. What was his involvement in all this, other than to shot LHO? Why was Ruby outside the Dallas hospital where they took JFK after he was shot? Where did Ruby come from that day?  There are claims that Ruby was at the Dealey Plaza, and after the killing of JFK, "threw a package into a car, got in the car, and drove away. This getaway was close to the Triple Tunnel bypass. Again, do your own research, and see what you find.

Thank you for answering my questions so quickly.

I am quite willing to do some research and look these names up. But it would be most helpful if you could at least give me ONE link you regard as most useful for each name, then at least I would know where to start.

The night John Kennedy was shot I was on my own at home (probably with my younger brother. The BBC Radio 4 Friday night 'Any Questions' programme was coming from MY school in Bournemouth. As it happens, the Headteacher of that school, Eric Bennett, was also my father.

So he HAD to be there, with my mother, listening to the show 'live' and meeting all the guests and BBC programme host etc.

A night to remember in more ways than one.

I was 15 at the time, and quietly listening to Radio Luxembourg on my tinny transistor radio doing my homework. I seem to remember the news coming  on the radio at about 9pm that evening.

The two other occasions where I know precisely where I was and what I was doing:

* the death of Princess Diana (a Sunday morning)

* 9/11 (a Tuesday afternoon - saw the shots of the planes on TV and was totally stunned).


Send those links if you can, thanks!

Tony Bennett wrote:

sallypelt wrote:
There are so many threads to this assassination, that one wouldn't know where to begin. However, here are a few names for those interested in this case, to get their teeth into. At first, you may ask yourself "what have these people got to do with the JFK assassination. All I can say it, keep with it, and when you get to the bottom of it, you may be wishing you hadn't


A few names to get your interests going:

David Ferrie.  Find out who he was. Dig deep

Dr Mary Sherman, and her involvement in the polio vaccine.

Lee Harvey Oswald. Find out what he was doing in New Orleans when his wife and child was back home in Texas. In the JFK film, Jim Garrison (played by Kevin Costner) ask this very question, what was Oswald doing there. And he wasn't there to hand out anti Castro leaflets.

Jack Ruby. What was his involvement in all this, other than to shot LHO? Why was Ruby outside the Dallas hospital where they took JFK after he was shot? Where did Ruby come from that day?  There are claims that Ruby was at the Dealey Plaza, and after the killing of JFK, "threw a package into a car, got in the car, and drove away. This getaway was close to the Triple Tunnel bypass. Again, do your own research, and see what you find.

Thank you for answering my questions so quickly.

I am quite willing to do some research and look these names up. But it would be most helpful if you could at least give me ONE link you regard as most useful for each name, then at least I would know where to start.

The night John Kennedy was shot I was on my own at home (probably with my younger brother. The BBC Radio 4 Friday night 'Any Questions' programme was coming from MY school in Bournemouth. As it happens, the Headteacher of that school, Eric Bennett, was also my father.

So he HAD to be there, with my mother, listening to the show 'live' and meeting all the guests and BBC programme host etc.

A night to remember in more ways than one.

I was 15 at the time, and quietly listening to Radio Luxembourg on my tinny transistor radio doing my homework. I seem to remember the news coming  on the radio at about 9pm that evening.

The two other occasions where I know precisely where I was and what I was doing:

* the death of Princess Diana (a Sunday morning)

* 9/11 (a Tuesday afternoon - saw the shots of the planes on TV and was totally stunned).


Send those links if you can, thanks!

I was 15 at the time, and quietly listening to Radio Luxembourg on my tinny transistor radio doing my homework. I seem to remember the news coming  on the radio at about 9pm that evening.


As I've said, Tony, where do I start, as the information is overwhelming. There are so many strands to this saga, that when you first read or listen to them, you will probably ask yourself "what as this got to do with JFK".

Anyway, here is a link for you to listen to. For those of you who have seen the JFK film, this is the Mr X in the JFK film. The man in question is Colonel fletcher Prouty, who has now, sadly, died.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCrQJtNaPeY

George Walker Bush thought to be present at the Dealay Plaza at the time of the assassination with various nefarious CIA cohorts witnessing the event, but claiming to be in another place altogether?

I haven't heard that one before. He was only 17 then.

Tony says "I was 15 at the time, and quietly listening to Radio Luxembourg on my tinny transistor radio doing my homework. I seem to remember the news coming  on the radio at about 9pm that evening."

Can you prove that?

100% PROOF the Government lied about the assassination.



There is LOTS more where that came from.

They were lucky to get him imo, The first shot could have made him slump on the back seat of the car injured but still alive.Makes me wonder if all the shots from the grassy knoll and the book depository building may have been a smoke screen, maybe the shot that killed him came from in or around the car he was in?

I have an idea the accused was in car behind and it was a mistake and a 2nd man got shot also.  That was last story that came out I think, just by memory.  joyce1938

Joyce and Five Star.

No and no.

Please ignore the stupid theories that are deliberately put out there to make the serious researchers look stupid by association. 

I recommend this forum to you.

These people have been on the case for decades and know their stuff.

http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/show/6611045-jfk

The forum owner Greg Parker is always right on the money.

It's the best most level-headed JFK forum on the net.

54 years later.

They are still withholding.

They are still releasing with redacted information.

Criminal.

I thought it was a simple lone-nut job? (That's sarcasm by the way).

Simple lone nut-job. What, like Madeleine's abductor ?!

Lee Harvey Oswald's Alibi

• By greg parker
  

Did Oswald have an alibi?

DA Henry Was interviewed on Saturday night, November 23, 1963 by KLRD. During the interview, there was this exchange with an un-named reporter:
Q: He has no, he has no alibi that will--?
Wade: I don't think he has any, but I'm not sure of that --                                                 
The word "alibi" is not mentioned in any of the interrogation reports produced by the participants from various agencies. Nor is the word mentioned by them or any of their questioners before the Warren Commission during sworn testimony.
The opportunities for denial of any wrong-doing and provision of an alibi are to be avoided according to the interrogation protocols of the Reid Technique used by law enforcement agencies throughout the United States. This is because they are antithetical to producing a confession. A confession is the aim of each and every interrogation of a suspect. This is because it saves the need to find and produce other types of evidence, cuts down on court costs and time, and helps clear-up rates. 
Despite such protocols, and despite the word "alibi" being absent in any official document or transcript, Oswald was twice given the opportunity to provide an alibi. The first instance was during the initial interrogation, and followed up on further the following day, and was necessary due to information received by the chief interrogator, Captain Will Fritz, that Oswald had been stopped inside the building very quickly after the assassination of President Kennedy, by a police officer and the building superintendent, Roy Truly, but immediately released. The second opportunity came during the last interrogation on Sunday, November 24 due to Postal Inspector Harry Holmes being asked to join the interrogation team because of his knowledge of Oswald's postal boxes. Out of all of the interrogators, Holmes was unique in that he had not been trained in the Reid Technique - nor had he been present during any of the earlier sessions. For reasons unknown, Holmes strayed from his area of expertise and questioned Oswald regarding his whereabouts at the time of the shots. 

What was reported in the first day news stories?

Detective Hicks was the officer most often quoted in those early reports. Those reports spoke of Oswald being stopped at the front entrance by an officer and released after the superintendent vouched for him as an employee. Most of those stories place this episode in the context of happening as the building was being surrounded and sealed off by police. Over time, the official version of events was that this occurred on the 2nd floor within about 90 seconds of the last shot, well before the building was sealed. 

What details do we have on Oswald's alibi?

What details we have, come from the interrogation reports and Warren Commission testimonies of those interrogators.
Police Captain Will Fritz                                                                                                     
The report for November 22
"I asked him what part of the building he was in at the time the President was shot, and he said that he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor. Mr. Truly had told me that one of the police officers had stopped this man immediately after the shooting somewhere near the back stairway, so I asked Oswald where he was when the police officer stopped him. He said he was on the second floor drinking a coca cola when the officer came in. I asked him why he left the building, and he said there was so much excitement he didn't think there would be any more work done that day, and that as this company wasn't particular about their hours, that they did not punch a clock, and that he thought it would be just as well that he left for the rest of the afternoon." 
From November 23 interrogation:
"In talking with him further about his location at the time the President was killed, he said he ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him. One of them was called "Junior" and the other one was a little short man whose name he did not know. He said he had a cheese sandwich and some fruit and that was the only package he had brought with him to work."
From Will Fritz's Warren Commission testimony:
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what happened that day; where he had been?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well he told me that he was eating lunch with some of the employees when this happened, and that he saw all the excitement and he didn't think--I also asked him why he left the building. He said there was so much excitement there then that "I didn't think there would be any work done that afternoon and we don't punch a clock and they don't keep very close time on our work and I just left."
Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.
Mr. BALL. Did you question Oswald about that?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all right.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola. Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola. 
FBI Special Agents Hosty and Bookhout                                                                           
From November 22 interrogation:
Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.  After hearing what had happened, he said that because of all the confusion there would be no work performed that afternoon so he decided to go home.  
FBI Special Agent Bookhout
From November 22 interrogation:
Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of Bill Shelly, he did not believe that there was going to be anymore work that day due to the confusion in the building.
From November 23 interrogation:
Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was called "Junior" and the other was short individual whose name he could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize. He stated that his lunch had consisted of a cheese sandwich and an apple which he had obtained at Mrs. Ruth Paine's residence in Irving, Texas, upon his leaving for work that morning.
From Agent Hosty's Warren Commission testimony:
"Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22nd of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building. He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home."
Secret Service Inspector Kelley:                                                                                   
From November 23 interrogation:
He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him. He described one of them as "Junior," a colored boy, and the other was little short negro boy. He said his lunch consisted of cheese, fruit, and apples, and was the only package he had with him when he went to work.   
Postal Inspector, Harry Holmes:
From November 24 interrogation:
When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that "he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building.
From Harry Holmes' Warren Commission testimony:
Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up." He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him. You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me." Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

The problems with the reports and testimony

The interrogations were not recorded electronically or by stenography and the head interrogator, Will Fritz, possibly among others, never made notes in real time. Moreover, those who did (Bookhout), or may have (Hosty, Holmes, Kelley) did not keep said notes once reports were typed.
It has never been explained why Bookhout wrote a solo report concerning the initial interrogation when there exists a joint report in his and Hosty's names. The closest to an explanation was during his testimony when Bookhout stated that the joint report was authored by Hosty, suggestive of disagreement with the content, despite having signed off on it. There is a significant difference between the two reports.

The sequence of Oswald's movements laid out in the joint report

• commenced lunch in first floor lunch room
  
• went to second floor to obtain a coke to have with lunch
  
• Was back on the first floor when all of the commotion started outside
  

The sequence of Oswald's movements laid out in Bookhout's solo report

• Oswald is in second floor lunch room having just purchased a coke when he is confronted by a police officer but is vouched for by Mr, Truly, the building superintendent
  
• Oswald goes to the first floor lunch room and has lunch
  
• Oswald then goes out to stand around with his supervisor, Bill Shelley for 5 or 10 minutes and then leaves
  

It can be noted here that the joint report was authored prior to the death of Oswald. Bookhout's solo report was written subsequent to Oswald's death. 
Another discrepancy exists between the reports of Fritz and Kelley and that of Bookhout. According to Fritz and Kelley, Oswald claimed to eat lunch with two fellow employees on the first floor, Junior and a short fellow whose name escaped him. According to Bookhout however, Oswald had claimed that Junior and his short friend had walked through the lunch room while Oswald was eating. Since this appeared to be exculpatory evidence, the two employees were eventually identified and asked if they had eaten with Oswald that day. The two said they had not. One look at the lunch room would be enough to know that walking through it was not possible unless they were already inside and simply walked back out through the only doorway.  Since is is known that the two had been outside and reentered the building at about 12:25 (5 minutes prior to the assassination), and made their way to the 5th floor to view the motorcade from a window, it is possible that what Oswald said was that he had seen them walk past the lunch room - or had seen them walk through the building.
The issue with the testimonies of all of these officials is they were given months after the interrogations. Given that contemporaneous notes no longer existed, memory had to be relied upon.
There was one other issue. The one time Will Fritz stumbled and stuttered in his testimony was when he was asked about where Oswald claimed to be.
Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.
Mr. BALL. Did you question Oswald about that?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all right. 
Police Reid Technique training regards this type of one-off stammering episode as an indicator of lying. On the other hand Oswald was consistently clear in his communications and was described as emphatic or frantic only when given the opportunity to deny all charges or when faced with evidence that he denied knowing anything about. The same training would suggest that this is indicative of innocence.

References 

Appendix XI - Reports Relating to the Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Dallas Police Department
Testimony of Will Fritz
Testimony of James Hosty
Testimony Of James W. Bookhout
Testimony of Harry Holmes
[url=http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/Do police interrogation techniques produce false confessions]Do police interrogation techniques produce false confessions?[/url]

Further reading

Oswald’s Alibi and the Reid Interrogation Technique
Anatomy of Oswald's Interrogations

https://mag.forumotion.com/p1016452-lee-harvey-oswald-s-alibi

https://www.thenewdisease.space/

I have seen the JFK movie with Kevin Costner a few times. I enjoyed it, (isn't that awful) , mainly as a fiction well made by a director who knows very well how to manipulate an audience. The bit that always bothers me the most in that movie is the courtroom scene where the actor playing Garrison repeats "Back and to the left, back and to the left" over and over, like brainwashing a new truth into the public psyche. This is "proof" only fit for the gullible and the stupid. JFK certainly did move back and to the left, but to use that as proof he was shot from the front and the right is disingenuous at best and downright dishonest at worst. At no point does the "evidence" that JFK was propelled "back and to the left" scenario take into account velocity of projectiles, inertia of target, velocity of target, nervous system reaction and a whole host of kinetic variables. Anyone with  even limited knowledge of ballistics knows a body does not fly backwards when hit by a bullet from the front, that is just Hollywood theatrics for Jo Public.
The movie as a whole introduces the viewer with little knowledge of the subject to a whole boatload of convincing information, then throws the mind control into the mix at the end.
In my opinion, it is what is known as a Limited Hangout. It would never have been allowed to get made if it was remotely spilling the beans. In that respect its producers must have felt very satisfied by it as I am sure it has persuaded more people than everything else put together.