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PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

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PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by RosieandSam on 21.03.17 10:30

I can't see this posted anywhere in the forum (apologies if I have missed it)

Change Org petition asking Theresa May to have the McCanns charged with negect.  Started by Hollie Flynn

https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-macanns-to-be-charged-with-neglect?recruiter=11477321&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-reason_msg

Although the petition itself is badly worded, what is interesting is that it gaining signatures at a fast rate which does indicate the change of mood (tide changing) that we have noticed in the media. When I saw the link in my Twitter feed at about 5.30pm yesterday, there were just over 52,000 signatures.  This morning it has just over 103,000 signatures, therefore I think it is a barometer of the mood of the nation.

P.S. In the time it has taken me to write this post, signatures have now increased to 104,965 signatures.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.03.17 10:38

The Petition is asking for them to be charged with neglect.

There was no neglect.

The McCanns did far worse than that and should be prosecuted for that.

That's why the Petition hasn't been posted on this forum.

I won't be signing it.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by RosieandSam on 21.03.17 10:43

I understand your sentiments GEG, but not everyone has researched/read the case files as thoroughly as members of this forum.  As I said, I see it as a barometer of the mood of the nation which has clearly changed over the past few months.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by JRP on 21.03.17 10:53

Lots of people outraged, but sadly misinformed.
I'm not signing it either, whats the point of accusing them of something they didn't do.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by ChippyM on 21.03.17 11:05

There is also a petition floating about that says people want them to take a lie detector test. What's the point of this if even the UK police didn't even want to question them again and it has no evidential value in court? 

  It's good the public perception has changed somewhat but they need to be thoroughly investigated over all possible scenarios in the case, the neglect angle gets them off the hook.  All these knee jerk petitions play into the 'the press are inciting the trolls' scenario.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by whatsupdoc on 21.03.17 11:06

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:The Petition is asking for them to be charged with neglect.

There was no neglect.

The McCanns did far worse than that and should be prosecuted for that.

That's why the Petition hasn't been posted on this forum.

I won't be signing it.

Young children shouldn't be left alone.

I didn't go on holiday when my two were very young but we certainly made up for it later.

Using buggies is a good idea if they are young. McCanns were seen during the day with a dual buggy.

The name McCann shouldn't have been attached to any neglect issue. IMO a Plan B excuse.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by puzzled on 21.03.17 11:26

@RosieandSam wrote:I understand your sentiments GEG, but not everyone has researched/read the case files as thoroughly as members of this forum.  As I said, I see it as a barometer of the mood of the nation which has clearly changed over the past few months.

I agree. Many people will not know many details about this case, and until recently, will probably have accepted the mainstream narrative. If there is a change in public attitude, that's all to the good. One thing may lead to another. 

Another question is, at the moment, would it be possible to charge the McCanns with anything else? I'm no expert in the law, but the evidence which is available at the moment is all circumstantial, isn't it, and you need material evidence to make a case stand up in court. At the present time, is there enough evidence to arrest the McCanns for anything other than neglect? Maybe someone with knowledge of the law can shed light on this.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by hogwash on 21.03.17 11:29

Maybe the McCanns want to be charged with neglect so that the PJ can't then charge them with a greater crime i.e concealing a corpse, staging an abduction, perverting the course of justice?

Maybe the McCanns fear they are being backed in to corner by people like Peter Mac and the turning tide of opinion in the media and that's why they're pushing the neglect stories?

Can you be tried for a greater crime if you've already been tried for a lesser crime?
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 21.03.17 11:29

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:The Petition is asking for them to be charged with neglect.

There was no neglect.

The McCanns did far worse than that and should be prosecuted for that.

That's why the Petition hasn't been posted on this forum.

I won't be signing it.
Totally agree.
Those who have signed it have swallowed the abduction story hook line and sinker.
The McScams know any prosecution for neglect wouldn't get off the ground, but it confirms the alibi they desperately need.
Its an own goal for truth and justice.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Mirage on 21.03.17 11:31

@whatsupdoc wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:The Petition is asking for them to be charged with neglect.

There was no neglect.

The McCanns did far worse than that and should be prosecuted for that.

That's why the Petition hasn't been posted on this forum.

I won't be signing it.

Young children shouldn't be left alone.

I didn't go on holiday when my two were very young but we certainly made up for it later.

Using buggies is a good idea if they are young. McCanns were seen during the day with a dual buggy.

The name McCann shouldn't have been attached to any neglect issue. IMO a Plan B excuse.
I totally agree. This is a decoy and a lot of ducks will paddle down it oblivious to the implications.

This case did not attract top government attention because it was a neglect situation. If you fall for that ruse the establishment will continue to treat the public in the way they always have., as mindless plebs several moves behind in the chess game.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Verdi on 21.03.17 12:03

Who is Hollie Flynn - does anyone know?  The name seems to ring a bell.

Neglect = Abduction

No neglect = No abduction

This latest episode smacks of yet another team McCann orchestrated manoeuvre, a distraction - they've done it again, it works every time!

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Verdi on 21.03.17 12:16

How can the voice of the populace ever be taken seriously when you've got people out there who make an ass of the system established to give the populace a voice.

Be realistic - how can the UK government orchestrate a 'charge' against the McCanns?  Above all else, the incident of Madeleine McCanns alleged disappearance happened in Portugal - the Portuguese authorities retain primacy.  There is no proof, nor even evidence, to suggest the McCanns neglected their children on that fateful holiday - only their word.

This is just nonsense, people that stick their beaks in, without thorough knowledge of what why when and where, are a nuisance - more trouble than they're worth.

Mass hysteria!

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Phoebe on 21.03.17 12:23

I suspect the McCanns would welcome being charged with neglect. Remember Gerry -"Did you say every 15 minutes? It's widely reported that we've said we were checking every half hour". Between Tracey's "tooth and nail" article (completely unnecessary as there was no plan to charge them with neglect) and now this timely petition, I smell a rat. The McCanns obstructed the investigation with changing statements, refusal to answer questions and refusal to attend a reconstruction. Perhaps "Hollie" should concentrate on these failings as a starting point.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by ChippyM on 21.03.17 12:33

Didn't Goncalo Amaral say the reason they weren't done for neglect is that they would have had to have charged the whole Tapas lot with the same?   This would obviously be hard to do under the political pressure of the time and under a great deal of scrutiny re. getting the correct evidence and having things watertight.

   IMO the McCanns know this and realise the chances of a similar charge being brought 10 years on is zero.  That's why they try and deflect debate to the neglect issue.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by sandancer on 21.03.17 12:34

Unfortunately​ a lot​ of people thanks to the McCanns themselves and the media​ ( Hi Tracey ) focus​ on the " Neglect​ " angle without being prepared to​ look​ deeper​ .

Despite insisting they​ will​ " fight​ tooth and nail " the McCanns must​ be laughing their heads off as this plays right into​ their​ hands Neglect​= Abduction ! 

This imho​ will go nowhere​ and maybe​ just​ maybe encourage those​ who sign to do more research and reach their own conclusions , not​ what​ they​ are​ told .




=============

Added by a Mod: Stopping by to address this question from 'puzzled' upthread:

Another question is, at the moment, would it be possible to charge the McCanns with anything else? I'm no expert in the law, but the evidence which is available at the moment is all circumstantial, isn't it, and you need material evidence to make a case stand up in court. At the present time, is there enough evidence to arrest the McCanns for anything other than neglect? Maybe someone with knowledge of the law can shed light on this.

Answers:  1. You do not always need to have 'material' evidence, even to convict someone of murder. Convictions - even on murder charges - have on occasions been obtained on the basis of circumstantial evidence alone. Examples have been given previously on this forum.
2. Some people would argue that there is enough evidence, forensic and circumstantial, to bring these charges against the McCanns: (A) preventing an autopsy (in Portugal, 'hiding a cadaver' or 'corpse concealment' and (B) perverting the course of justice.  
There are, however, almost overwhelming obstacles to a prosecution for either offence, or any other offence, without either a 'smoking gun' or a confession - Mod

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by aquila on 21.03.17 12:55

@Verdi wrote:How can the voice of the populace ever be taken seriously when you've got people out there who make an ass of the system established to give the populace a voice.

Be realistic - how can the UK government orchestrate a 'charge' against the McCanns?  Above all else, the incident of Madeleine McCanns alleged disappearance happened in Portugal - the Portuguese authorities retain primacy.  There is no proof, nor even evidence, to suggest the McCanns neglected their children on that fateful holiday - only their word.

This is just nonsense, people that stick their beaks in, without thorough knowledge of what why when and where, are a nuisance - more trouble than they're worth.

Mass hysteria!
No-one to my knowledge has fully explained the pretty sharp Ward of Court status of Madeleine McCann.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Verdi on 21.03.17 13:08

@aquila wrote:
@Verdi wrote:How can the voice of the populace ever be taken seriously when you've got people out there who make an ass of the system established to give the populace a voice.

Be realistic - how can the UK government orchestrate a 'charge' against the McCanns?  Above all else, the incident of Madeleine McCanns alleged disappearance happened in Portugal - the Portuguese authorities retain primacy.  There is no proof, nor even evidence, to suggest the McCanns neglected their children on that fateful holiday - only their word.

This is just nonsense, people that stick their beaks in, without thorough knowledge of what why when and where, are a nuisance - more trouble than they're worth.

Mass hysteria!
No-one to my knowledge has fully explained the pretty sharp Ward of Court status of Madeleine McCann.
No but I'll wager it was because they thought it would afford them special privileges, like getting their hands on information concerning the investigation, which would otherwise remain secreted.  They tried it with Leicestershire police files - abysmal failure!

There is an outline of wardship status recorded somewhere.  Haven't time at the moment to look.

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Joss on 21.03.17 13:24

Wow i didn't realise the general consensus was "no neglect" by the McC's. I also don't think it means because the McC's neglected their children it disproves other scenarios if you discount abduction.
So you are also all saying you don't agree with the thesis of Goncalo Amaral's findings either? Didn't he think MBM came to grief inside the holiday apartment re the findings of the cadaver & blood detection dogs inside the holiday apartment? Do you all think perhaps someone killed Madeleine inside the apartment and then covered it up. But by whom? The parents or someone else? And why in that case would all of them cover for the McC's or the McC's cover for anyone else for that matter?
Sorry, but maybe i'm missing something with all of this?
Also suspicion by the Portugese police that the children had been drugged? And for what reason would they drug the children unless they wanted to be kid free to enjoy themselves with their friends for the night?
http://truthofthelie.com/2008/07/madeleine-died-in-the-apartment/

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by RosieandSam on 21.03.17 13:32

MADELEINE McCANN - WARD OF COURT



The complete High Court Hearing 

07 July 2008
 
Address by Tim Scott Q.C. to the High Court of Justice on 07 July 2008, In open court: International Family Law Group


https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/madeleine-ward-of-court-lp-information.html
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Joss on 21.03.17 13:42

@Phoebe wrote:I suspect the McCanns would welcome being charged with neglect. Remember Gerry -"Did you say every 15 minutes? It's widely reported that we've said we were checking every half hour". Between Tracey's "tooth and nail" article (completely unnecessary as there was no plan to charge them with neglect) and now this timely petition, I smell a rat. The McCanns obstructed the investigation with changing statements, refusal to answer questions and refusal to attend a reconstruction. Perhaps "Hollie" should concentrate on these failings as a starting point.

Parents can be prosecuted for wilful neglect if they leave a child unsupervised "in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health".
Punishment can range from a fine to 10 years imprisonment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2286498/Parents-face-jail-for-leaving-children-home-alone.html

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.03.17 13:44

@RosieandSam wrote:MADELEINE McCANN - WARD OF COURT



The complete High Court Hearing 

07 July 2008
 
Address by Tim Scott Q.C. to the High Court of Justice on 07 July 2008, In open court: International Family Law Group


https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/madeleine-ward-of-court-lp-information.html

Just to make it clear that this is not my blog - it's just someone who nicks my stuff and tries to make it look like mine.

This person also plagiarises HiDeHo's videos.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by Mirage on 21.03.17 14:00

I suppose they've already lined up the expert who will advise  they were "within the bounds of responsible parenting" that will get them off a negligence charge by a suitably sympathetic judge.

Ha ha, Another in a long line of so-called experts from Metodo 3 to Halligen, to Smethurst to Pike. Down to the cringeworthy barrister who told the high court she knew the child had been abducted because .... wait for it ... " my clients told me".

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by puzzled on 21.03.17 14:02

@sandancer wrote:
Added by a Mod: Stopping by to address this question from 'puzzled' upthread:

Another question is, at the moment, would it be possible to charge the McCanns with anything else? I'm no expert in the law, but the evidence which is available at the moment is all circumstantial, isn't it, and you need material evidence to make a case stand up in court. At the present time, is there enough evidence to arrest the McCanns for anything other than neglect? Maybe someone with knowledge of the law can shed light on this.

Answers:  1. You do not always need to have 'material' evidence, even to convict someone of murder. Convictions - even on murder charges - have on occasions been obtained on the basis of circumstantial evidence alone. Examples have been given previously on this forum.
2. Some people would argue that there is enough evidence, forensic and circumstantial, to bring these charges against the McCanns: (A) preventing an autopsy (in Portugal, 'hiding a cadaver' or 'corpse concealment' and (B) perverting the course of justice.  
There are, however, almost overwhelming obstacles to a prosecution for either offence, or any other offence, without either a 'smoking gun' or a confession - Mod

Thanks. So at the moment, it seems like there's precious little chance of the McCanns being arrested for anything, doesn't it?

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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by aquila on 21.03.17 14:03

@Verdi wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Verdi wrote:How can the voice of the populace ever be taken seriously when you've got people out there who make an ass of the system established to give the populace a voice.

Be realistic - how can the UK government orchestrate a 'charge' against the McCanns?  Above all else, the incident of Madeleine McCanns alleged disappearance happened in Portugal - the Portuguese authorities retain primacy.  There is no proof, nor even evidence, to suggest the McCanns neglected their children on that fateful holiday - only their word.

This is just nonsense, people that stick their beaks in, without thorough knowledge of what why when and where, are a nuisance - more trouble than they're worth.

Mass hysteria!
No-one to my knowledge has fully explained the pretty sharp Ward of Court status of Madeleine McCann.
No but I'll wager it was because they thought it would afford them special privileges, like getting their hands on information concerning the investigation, which would otherwise remain secreted.  They tried it with Leicestershire police files - abysmal failure!

There is an outline of wardship status recorded somewhere.  Haven't time at the moment to look.
It seems the McCanns were advised on just about everything.
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Re: PETITION ASKING FOR THE McCANNS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLECT

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.03.17 14:29

@Joss wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:I suspect the McCanns would welcome being charged with neglect. Remember Gerry -"Did you say every 15 minutes? It's widely reported that we've said we were checking every half hour". Between Tracey's "tooth and nail" article (completely unnecessary as there was no plan to charge them with neglect) and now this timely petition, I smell a rat. The McCanns obstructed the investigation with changing statements, refusal to answer questions and refusal to attend a reconstruction. Perhaps "Hollie" should concentrate on these failings as a starting point.

Parents can be prosecuted for wilful neglect if they leave a child unsupervised "in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health".
Punishment can range from a fine to 10 years imprisonment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2286498/Parents-face-jail-for-leaving-children-home-alone.html

Portuguese Penal 'code'

"Article138" - Exposure or abandonment

1 – Whomever places another person’s life in danger:

a) By exposing her/him in a location that subjects her/him to a situation from which she/he cannot defend herself/himself on her/his own; or
b) Abandoning her/him without defence, due to age, physical deficiency or illness, whenever it was the agent’s (parent/guardian) duty to guard, watch over or assist the person;

is punished with a prison sentence of 1 to 5 years.

2 – If the fact is practised by an ascendant or a descendant, adopter or adoptee of the victim, the agent (parent/guardian) is punished with a prison sentence of 2 to 5 years.

3 – If the fact results in:

a) A serious offence to physical integrity, the agent (parent/guardian) is punished with a prison sentence of 2 to 8 years;
b) Death, the agent (parent/guardian) is punished with a prison sentence of 3 to 10 years."

It is very important to note that this crime has to be committed with 'dolo' (roughly: intent), as described under article 14 of the Portuguese Penal Code.

Quite 'how' the McCan'ts didn't 'commit' ANY of the 'above' is 'beyond' me!

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