The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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*** Days from its closure, Operation Grange is extended by £100.000 and 6 more months - 18.9.2016 *** (was: There are just 15 days left to the closure of Operation Grange)

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Post by Guest 26.04.16 21:54

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:  TB - is the letter you are handing in suitable to be published openly so that it can be read by the public in general? Always good (and safer) to get things out in the open.


I'm not sure where or how the second sentence fits in but I think you'll find Tony Bennett will, offend or please, disclose details of work he is doing behind the scenes as and when he thinks it appropriate so to do.  Alas - sometimes to his own detriment.

Unfortunately when it comes to self preservation, honesty - or at least rectitude, is not always the best policy but I believe his intentions are always honourable so I can't fault anything he does in quest of justice for Madeleine McCann.  The complexity of the case as regards trying to squeeze a response from the UK government is a mammoth task - not something that can be presented on a single A4 leaf.

I'm impatient to hear the result of his application to 10 Downing Street - if and/or when he is in a position to divulge.
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Post by Carrry On Doctor 26.04.16 22:02

Get'emGonçalo wrote:


Transcript

Unknown caller - Hi, hi, good morning, my question is regarding to Madeleine McCann...

Nick Ferrari (host) - Oh yes.

Unknown caller - ...what chances can we find this girl?

Nick Ferrari - This is I think another additional 95,000 pounds that has been earmarked by the Home Office, I think, for Scotland Yard Sir Bernard, and that would mean around six months the investigations can continue.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Yeah, Michael (the caller) as you know there's been a lot of investigation time spent on this is, (1) it's a terrible case isn't it, it's a child who went missing and everybody wants to know if she is alive if she is, where is she, and if suddenly she is dead then we need to give some comfort to the family , so it needed us to carry out an investigation together with the Portuguese and other countries have been involved and (2) there is a line of inquiry that remains to be concluded and it's expected in the coming months that will happen. The size of the teams came down radically, I think we're now down to two or three people in that team, at one stage was about 30 officers in it, ahm, essentially it's a Portuguese inquiry...

Nick Ferrari - What do thirty people do all day Commissioner?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - (3) Well, the first steps they had to do was to actually review and look at all the things the Portuguese had done, to see whether or not there was anything we could offer that, you know, might help with that investigation, had they missed anything, now we do that for ourselves and the Portuguese review. So we thought, well, (4) we were asked by the Prime Minister before I arrived, to see whether or not there was anything we could do to help that investigation. Our review...

Nick Ferrari - It takes thirty officers?!


Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, err, yep, but just bear in mind what happened there, so you got thousands of pages, I went in to one of our police stations back in 2011 and there was a whole room full of documents that this inquiry had produced, you know, from the hundreds of witnesses statements, to all every card they checked out, from all, you know, these inquiries for those who don't get involved in them don't realize just what they generate, huge amounts of material, and of course, these all have to be translated.

Nick Ferrari - Yes.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - This didn't start out in English.

Nick Ferrari - Sure.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - They were translated into English.

Nick Ferrari - Have you moved forward in any way?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - I, well, (5) that's what I'm indicating, is that first of all we had to extinguish the possibilities that existed in terms of inquiry, I think some of those have been stopped and there is a line of inquiry I think is, well, everybody agrees, is worthwhile pursuing.

Nick Ferrari - How long will this go on? When will you finally be prepared to stand down operation, I think it's Operation Grange, isn't it?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - (6) Well, really at the moment it will be the conclusion of this line of inquiry, unless something else comes up.

Nick Ferrari - So, you'd spend more money, again? Another 95,000 pound?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, if somebody comes to me, if somebody comes forward and gives good evidence we'll follow it.

Nick Ferrari - Yes.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - We always say that, ahm, you know, a missing child inquiry is never closed.

Nick Ferrari - Yes, but there are a hundred eighty-seven missing children in Britain, (7) not all fortunately of the circumstances of Madeleine McCann. How come this one attracts so much attention and indeed funding?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, of course, you know, this was a decision of the government, that in this case they wanted to fund the Metropolitan Police to make this inquiry. If you remember, of course, this poor girl came from Leicestershire area, and was obviously aboard in Portugal at the time. So, we went, the Home Office, the government asked the Met to get involved and we have done our best as anybody humanly can, to try and find this girl, and that's surely the thing that drives us all. Newspapers have got involved, private investigators got involved..

Nick Ferrari - So, you don't see any standing down in the near future of Operation Grange?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, (8) I thought it was clear(?), which is first of all, the line of inquiry that is being pursued, that obviously is important, it's important in the coming months that is resolved and I think it will be, if something new comes forward of course we'll investigate it, but that line of inquiry probably is, at the moment, is the conclusion of this inquiry.


broadcast by LBC radio, April 26, 2016

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My comments in numerical order (bold in red);

1. Isn't it terrible case, and on the face of it we don't suspect the parents.
2. We know what happened, and we hope to conclude the investigative stage in the coming months.
3. We checked what the PJ did to make sure it was correct.
4. In the current knowledge of the Hillsborough verdicts (10am), the Prime Minister is personally involved and wants to avoid a repetition.
5. In case you are a bit slow on the uptake, we know what happened, and this is what we are focusing on.
6. The investigation will stop when we can charge who actually did this.
7. There is no similarity in this case to other missing children since MBM did not go missing.
8. The penny hasn't dropped has it ? We know who it is, as I am confident that all will become clear in the coming months.
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Post by Guest 26.04.16 22:42

Is there a slip of the tongue by BHH there, when he says a missing child case is never closed he seems to say a  'mu' missing child etc. I think his brain was telling him a murder enquiry is never closed. Maybe it was me whose brain was telling me something else!
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Post by Tony Bennett 26.04.16 22:49

Verdi wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:  TB - is the letter you are handing in suitable to be published openly so that it can be read by the public in general? Always good (and safer) to get things out in the open.

I'm not sure where or how the second sentence fits in but I think you'll find Tony Bennett will, offend or please, disclose details of work he is doing behind the scenes as and when he thinks it appropriate so to do.  Alas - sometimes to his own detriment.
The letter deals with the detail of why the petitioners want a full Home Office report on the work of Operation Grange, and its bizarre and inexplicable conduct over the course of the last 5 years.

I can say in advance that it casts no aspersions on the McCanns themselves.

It also - as stated in the petition - raises issues about the conduct of the government, the security services and other police forces that have been involved in investigating what really happened to Madeleine McCann, notably Leicestershire Police.

I intend to publish it - on CMOMM - in the week following my handing it in this Friday.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Rogue-a-Tory 26.04.16 22:55

Still the Portuguese inquiry is bungled, still the parents are grateful for an inquiry that's unearthed the square root of sweet FA. 

The tone has changed but the message is still mind-numbingly dumb.
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Post by Guest 26.04.16 23:35

@Tony Bennett:  I intend to publish it - on CMOMM - in the week following my handing it in this Friday.

Thank you!  Such an important issue, can you make a point of starting a new thread for the purpose - I'm having difficulty following the forum at the moment thumbsup .
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Post by Guest 26.04.16 23:49

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Thank you thumbsup 

I keep getting 'unresponsive script' crashes when I go on those sites that are loaded with adverts and videos.
Are you sure it's not an overload of McCann'ite script and imagery that's causing the problem?  If I have to look at one more repeat of Gerald with a nasty smell under his nose and Katie with that rigid feigned look of anguish I'll have a Hissyfit !

For the sake of sanity - how many more times is the UK press going to be primed to churn out the same old trite nonsense?
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Post by Searcher 27.04.16 0:50

The media, the Met, have managed to ignore Dr. Amaral's book for years.  However, with the recent judgment at last, a loud noise is developing off-stage, which is going to make it very difficult to ignore the book for much longer.   I wonder what the Met will 'find' next to draw the present time to a helpful conclusion.  

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Post by canada12 27.04.16 3:08

“They are aware police want to pursue one remaining line of inquiry but have been told not to discuss it publicly."


Or, perhaps, Kate and Gerry don't actually know what the one remaining line of inquiry is, as SY haven't chosen to share it with them......
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Post by xklamation 27.04.16 3:54

Tony Bennett wrote:

If the PT investigation continues, will witnesses and suspects have to be extradited? 

There is no Portuguese investigation. They are fed up with the whole British circus.

Exactly.

The process reopened in Portugal forced by the investigation of the Met. Mind you, not because "new credible information" had arrived to the PGR but because the MET asked for several men, 11 or more, innocent and totally unrelated to the case to be questioned and for that they had to become arguidos - suspects. Some of these men's names and faces appeared in the world media .

The Oporto PJ team did an unprecedented review - of an investigation carried out by another PJ team - that "discovered" a dead man, again an innocent man - a farcical if not racist attempt to blame a patsy. Any other findings? Zilch. This review was nothing more than an expedient to "show to the world" or for "the English to see" that the Portuguese PJ were actively doing something whilst their English counterparts had the front pages of the world media, due to tacit agreements with the UK media ex. photojournalists knowing precisely where and when Redwood would arrive in the Algarve. 

In an unrelated matter, does anyone want to venture and guess why did the MET remove all references from their site and facebook page of that sordid press statement that had in it's Portuguese version the word "raped"? The press statement that had a story of a man or men who sexually assaulted only white, only English, only little girls in the Algarve, claims that no one, not even the locals had ever heard about.
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Post by aiyoyo 27.04.16 7:09


Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - I, well, that's what I'm indicating, is that first of all we had to extinguish the possibilities that existed in terms of inquiry, I think some of those have been stopped and there is a line of inquiry I think is, well, everybody agrees, is worthwhile pursuing.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, really at the moment it will be the conclusion of this line of inquiry, unless something else comes up.

I am still optimistic.

Read carefully between Sir BHH lines.  
He isn't saying one line of inquiry remains.  
Actually he's saying they have been investigating only one line of inquiry all along (one which everyone agrees is the only one worthwhile pursuing), and will come to a resolve on this one line of inquiry soon.
  
Which one though - abduction or homicide?
Going by the digging, I know which one I believe it is.

He explained that at commencement logistics of manpower commensurates with volume of work - tonnes of documentations - translations had to be done, shifted through, looked at what the PJ had done, possibilities of inquiry looked at, some eliminated and then what's left is one line of inquiry everyone agrees is worthwhile pursuing which is coming to an end soon.

 


Nick Ferrari - So, you'd spend more money, again? Another 95,000 pound?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, if somebody comes to me, if somebody comes forward and gives good evidence we'll follow it.

I interpret it to mean, they won't deviate from the one line of inquiry (taken from the outset) they are working on, unless something new contrary to that comes up.


Nick Ferrari -  How come this one attracts so much attention and indeed funding?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - this was a decision of the government, that in this case they wanted to fund the Metropolitan Police to make this inquiry. So, we went, the Home Office, the government asked the Met to get involved....
Newspapers have got involved, private investigators got involved..

Implying this case is unique - excess publicity and pte investigator involvement - more than meet the eyes to this case in other words.



Nick Ferrari - So, you don't see any standing down in the near future of Operation Grange?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Well, I thought it was clear(?), which is first of all, the line of inquiry that is being pursued, that obviously is important, it's important in the coming months that is resolved and I think it will be, if something new comes forward of course we'll investigate it, but that line of inquiry probably is, at the moment, is the conclusion of this inquiry.

Re-emphasing the importance they resolve the important line of inquiry (only one they concentrate on from outset) within months, expressing his belief it will be. Meaning tying up ends. 

95K earmarked in a determination to resolve a line of inquiry that is going nowhere?
I shouldn't think so. 

Met Police's support of Amaral's fund is good indication where their line of inquiry lies.
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Post by Guest 27.04.16 7:18

aiyoyo wrote:
95K earmarked in a determination to resolve a line of inquiry that is going nowhere?
I shouldn't think so. 
£12 million chasing burglars?

95K is lunch money.


Met Police's support of Amaral's fund is good indication where their line of inquiry lies.
Anonymous members of the Met.

I don't share your optimism.

Bog standard policing should have been initiated 4 years ago and much less than £12 million would have been spent.
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Post by lemony snicket 27.04.16 7:26

Could it be that the MET/PJ/Amaral are just trying to force them into a corner so they confess?
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Post by aiyoyo 27.04.16 7:30

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The £12M figure spent has got to do with the initial manpower wages for 38 officers, preliminary costs for resources, translations, travel costs etc.

All the drifters, odd balls and what not had to be followed up - interviewed and eliminated - to make a water tight case. Not necessarily indication they were chasing burglars.  It may look that way.
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Post by aiyoyo 27.04.16 7:45

lemony snicket wrote:Could it be that the MET/PJ/Amaral are just trying to force them into a corner so they confess?

Hell will freeze over first. They will never confess. 
They won't admit to it if/when arrested.

Going against the flow here and won't be popular.
Personally, I won't lump Amaral with active Police Forces on the investigation. 
MET's narratives in the public thus far do not look as if cornering them into confession. Au contraire, MET announced they are not "persons of interest". 
Amaral's narratives Kate & Gerry have only disdain for, that much is clear.

IMO Dr Amaral should refrain from commenting publicly on current investigation making it out he knows the line of inquiry to be in wrong direction.  Unless he knows with 100% certainty, else this will boomerang on him later.

General public / laymen are not at same risk as him of being judged/criticised no matter what be their view one way or the other on the investigation.  
Doing so, Amaral is putting himself out there...
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Post by aiyoyo 27.04.16 8:28

In my view, the fact that team Mccann is still spinning in the press saying they are told not to comment on the one line on inquiry ....appear to me they fear outcome of Grange inquiry.  Hence the spin.....pre-empting/defensive/tactic, keeping their side of the story in the media as far as possible, continuing to influence public into a false perception......that kind of things.

Otherwise why the need to tell people something banal? 
Why not just stay silence? Why tell people they can't comment?  Do people need to know that? 
They are not confident.  
They are reacting out of fear.  
Fear makes them react unwisely, say banal things in the press.
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Post by plebgate 27.04.16 8:44

IMO they will not comment on anything until SC ruling if indeed they allow an appeal.

If I were in their shoes I would be very worried about Rocky A. being able to speak out now that the ruling has gone in his favour.   I believe the tv interview in Pt. at the weekend shows that he means business and probably wont be the last interview he will give.

He has said that there was no conclusion from the "3 shadowy figures going into the church" info. which is in the police files.   It could be that he will be pushing for the Pt. police to investigate until there is a conclusion.  Who knows, but for sure, he will not give up on Maddie and what happened to her (IMO).
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Post by Tony Bennett 27.04.16 9:35

xklamation wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:

If the PT investigation continues, will witnesses and suspects have to be extradited? 

There is no Portuguese investigation. They are fed up with the whole British circus.

Exactly.

The process reopened in Portugal forced by the investigation of the Met. Mind you, not because "new credible information" had arrived to the PGR but because the MET asked for several men, 11 or more, innocent and totally unrelated to the case to be questioned and for that they had to become arguidos - suspects. Some of these men's names and faces appeared in the world media .

The Oporto PJ team did an unprecedented review - of an investigation carried out by another PJ team - that "discovered" a dead man, again an innocent man - a farcical if not racist attempt to blame a patsy. Any other findings? Zilch. This review was nothing more than an expedient to "show to the world" or for "the English to see" that the Portuguese PJ were actively doing something whilst their English counterparts had the front pages of the world media, due to tacit agreements with the UK media ex. photojournalists knowing precisely where and when Redwood would arrive in the Algarve. 

In an unrelated matter, does anyone want to venture and guess why did the MET remove all references from their site and facebook page of that sordid press statement that had in it's Portuguese version the word "raped"? The press statement that had a story of a man or men who sexually assaulted only white, only English, only little girls in the Algarve, claims that no one, not even the locals had ever heard about.
Thank you @ xclamation for making the position crystal clear - any Portuguese Police so-called re-investigation was only ever nominal - in name only, and never in actuality. It was a façade, a charade, just like the whole Operation Grange performance.

I was going to challenge any member of the forum who ever thought there was a genuine Portuguese re-investigation to produce any evidence they can find that there ever was such a re-investigation, but - thanks - you have saved me the trouble.

So what about all those public statements from DCI Redwood about how well the British and Portuguese Police were now working together to solve this 'complete mystery'?

Lies, lies, lies...and more iies

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by lemony snicket 27.04.16 9:44

So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
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Post by Guest 27.04.16 9:47

lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
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Post by pennylane 27.04.16 10:08

plebgate wrote:IMO they will not comment on anything until SC ruling if indeed they allow an appeal.

If I were in their shoes I would be very worried about Rocky A. being able to speak out now that the ruling has gone in his favour.   I believe the tv interview in Pt. at the weekend shows that he means business and probably wont be the last interview he will give.

He has said that there was no conclusion from the "3 shadowy figures going into the church" info. which is in the police files.   It could be that he will be pushing for the Pt. police to investigate until there is a conclusion.  Who knows, but for sure, he will not give up on Maddie and what happened to her (IMO).

They ARE very worried about Rocky A!
He's taking it all back to ground zero, which puts Kate and Gerry McCann firmly back in the frame!  This is precisely what TM/The Home Office/Op Grange have spent countless hours and enormous funds attempting to move a million miles away from (imo).  

They also know Rocky A will not shy away from the Gaspar statements. Heck DCI Redwood left out DP's name completely, whilst naming every other tapasnik in his Crimewatch farce, a glaring omission I would say.

The poor beleaguered Met are still peeling back that old onion full of dead paedo's and child abducting burglars, whilst Goncalo Amaral is showing them all up for what they truly are.



Go, go Rocky Amaral!  clapping

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Post by kaz 27.04.16 11:00

Why do people think that there is any possibility of the McCanns being investigated properly this side of the water? OG told us all we needed to know. The 'Revelation' moment being the most farcical farce ever! Surely it will quietly be dropped by the wayside and left to the Portuguese  to take up the reins once again.
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Post by Roidininki 27.04.16 11:18

BlueBag wrote:
lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
Public pressure against political interference ?D'you really believe the latter care two hoots what the public thinks needs answering?
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Post by Guest 27.04.16 11:32

Roidininki wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
Public pressure against political interference ?D'you really believe the latter care two hoots what the public thinks needs answering?
Politicians, the rich and powerful don't win all the time.
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Post by pennylane 27.04.16 11:41

BlueBag wrote:
Roidininki wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
lemony snicket wrote:So if OG is doing nothing and the PJ are doing nothing and Amaral can't arrest them then where is this heading?
People are saying it's game over for the McCanns, but all I see is them getting away with it.
Public pressure.

We have to keep asking the questions.
Public pressure against political interference ?D'you really believe the latter care two hoots what the public thinks needs answering?
Politicians, the rich and powerful don't win all the time.

This is true BB, especially since the Internet era which has been a real game changer!
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Post by Tony Bennett 27.04.16 12:16

kaz wrote: The 'Revelation Moment' being the most farcical farce ever!
Hard to argue with that. thumbsup

And yet probably 99% of the 6.7 million who watched that BBC Crimewatch McCann Special farce probably believe that DCI Andy Redwood was being totally sincere and telling us the truth about Crecheman

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Cmaryholmes 27.04.16 12:49

Yes, I did. I believed it all, because I knew nothing about it. I still believed that there was a real search for an abducted child. I still believed that the police were honourable, and that 2 nice doctors must have been exemplary parents. How gullible I was.
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Post by Bishop Brennan 28.04.16 2:31

kaz wrote:Why do people think that there is any possibility of the McCanns being investigated properly this side of the water? OG told us all we needed to know. The 'Revelation' moment being the most farcical farce ever! Surely it will quietly be dropped by the wayside and left to the Portuguese  to take up the reins once again.

As you say, there never was any possibility of the McCanns being investigated by SY.  Any doubt on that front was removed by the blatant whitewashing that took place on Crimewatch.  Nothing has changed since then.

And unfortunately, according to Amaral just the other night on TV, there is no likelihood of the PJ taking over the case or moving it any further forward:

"...  I can't see the Judiciary Police resuming the investigation when Scotland Yard ends theirs. In the end, the process was re-opened almost only and by the Scotland Yard, and when they leave the process will be archived just like before. "

And that, sadly, will be that.
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Post by suzyjohnson 28.04.16 11:38

Whatever your views on why, and how, Redwood dismissed Tannerman as a suspect on Crimewatch, he has drawn attention to the man seen by the Smiths at around 10 pm as being the most likely person of interest to the enquiry. He didn't need to do that, but he did.

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Post by Bishop Brennan 28.04.16 13:28

suzyjohnson wrote:Whatever your views on why, and how, Redwood dismissed Tannerman as a suspect on Crimewatch, he has drawn attention to the man seen by the Smiths at around 10 pm as being the most likely person of interest to the enquiry. He didn't need to do that, but he did.

With the benefit of hindsight and the imminent closure, we can see that there were in fact 2 reasons for dismissing Tannerman.

1. It created a much bigger time-window for the abduction to take place. As many on here had shown, the timeline as provided by the T9 meant that there was only a window of about 2 or 3 minutes for Tannerman to have taken Maddie. AND he had to have been in the flat with Gerry, just before taking her. An unsustainable story.

2. Smithman taking Maddie later in the evening tied in with the phone / SMS records that Redwood had already looked at. These records were used to link 3 entirely unconnected people (the driver, the drug addict and the boy) and create SY's main arguidos. The phone records did not tie in with a Tannerman abduction, but could be made to fit, IF and ONLY IF the abduction took place later (i.e. Smithman).

So in many ways he did have to do it. And that's why he broadcast it as his big "revelation moment".
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