Monday April 30th - day 2

by Guest 13.11.11 10:07

Reports missing for this day:

Tennis list

Tapas list

OC daily run report

by Guest 13.11.11 17:35

7.30 ish Up, wash, breakfast
UNKNOWN Rachel books Tapas for 9 at 20.30 for rest of week
9.30 MM to crèche (GM) Spaceship collage, Mini tennis, Crazy gloop, Kym’s game
9.20 Twins to creche (GM)
9.00 to 10.00 KM tennis
10.15 GM Tennis
UNKNOWN 5A Cleaned - in the morning during creche hours
12.10MM from Creche (GM)
12.15 Twins from crèche (GM)
UNKNOWN Lunch, where and when
15.15 MM to crèche (KM?) Sand painting moon pictures, garden adventure, mini dance
15.25 Twins to crèche (KM)
UNKNOWN K & Jane go to Baptista Supermarket
15.20? MM from Creche (KM) ??
17.20 Twins from crèche (KM)
UNKNOWN Ladies tennis evening
19.00ish Kids to bed
UNKNOWN Tapas, very cold (all there according to Kate)

by Guest 13.11.11 17:55

Monday 30th April 2007 I recall I may have done some windsurfing this was just after I'd dropped Ella off at the kids club near the Ocean Club and Evie at crêche near to the Tapas bar.

So on Monday the thirtieth of April now, I think that can, (inaudible) Jane's, not very important, but, I think it's not 'Wind surfing or sailing', I think it was wind surfing, so 'or sailing' can be deleted".
00.35.43 1578 "'I recall I may have done some wind surfing or sailing'?"
Reply "Yeah, just delete 'or sailing' on Monday, it was wind surfing. 'I dropped E*** off at the creche', she was always quite happy to go, it wasn't that she didn't like going, actually it was E*** that, E*** was a little bit more, reticent about going, so there's two, there's two things here. What I would say here is 'I dropped E*** off at the creche', 'and E*** was also left at the creche although wasn't quite so keen on it as E*** initially'. So it was E*** that wasn't as keen on it". 1578 "'E*** also dropped off'?"
Reply "'Also dropped off', they were obviously at separate places. And the point about, at the end of the holiday, was that our intention was not put E*** or E*** into the creche on every session because obviously I sort of don't see them as much as Jane does and I, I mean, there were a couple of sessions we didn't, we didn't put them in, so I just, had some time with them over, over the week. But, as time went on, although this clearly also, goes into the couple of weeks, E*** loved it so much, she was saying, 'I just want to go', 'I want to go to club'. So, although we weren't intending to put E**a in all the time, in the end she went most, well she did go most morning and afternoon sessions because she was so keen on it and had such a great time there".
1578 "So 'E*** went to'?"
Reply "'E*** went to Kids Club'".
1578 "'Kids Club'?"
Reply "The plan was for her not necessarily to go to all sessions".
1578 "And the Kids Club was the reception, wasn't it?"
00.37.27 Reply "That was down at the, yeah, the Ocean Club. E*** was in the, the crêche, but immediately behind the Tapas. But the plan, our plan at least, Jane and mine, was that we would put them into a certain number of sessions just allow us some free time to, to, to do a few other things, but that I would probably spend some time with them not in clubs. But E***, E*** absolutely loved it and after a couple of sessions E***, E*** was pretty happy there too".
1578 "So 'I dropped E*** off at the Kids Club'?"
Reply "Yeah, that's probably more, not crêche".
1578 "'And E*** reception'?"
Reply "'E*** the crêche'".
1578 "Sorry, 'at the crêche'".
Reply "E***nt to the crêche".
1578 "Initially?"
Reply "Initially E***ell, I mean, and by initially, like a lot of nursery, when you leave people at nursery, I mean, for the first five minutes, E***sn't very happy, but, no, she been at pre, had been going to pre-school and had gone to nursery actually for a lot longer than E*** over the years, so she just sort of got on with it, just went in and got on with it".
1578 "So the statement there that 'Initially she didn't like going but by the end of the holiday she was asking to go'?"
Reply "That's, that's".
1578 "That is correct in respect of E***
Reply "No, no. No, no, no, I mean, E***s only one so she wouldn't be asking to go anyway".
1578 "Sorry".
00.38.41 Reply "Sorry, the clarification here is, that we weren't going to book them in for every session, initially we dropped of E***he just got on with it, absolutely happy from the word go. Erm, E***en we dropped off, would have a bit, a few tears like a lot of young kids do when you leave them at nursery, but there were no reports of her not having a good time and she was happy, once she had been dropped off. The comment about wanting to go more was actually as the week wore on, although I'm talking really now, we were there for an extra two weeks and we used the facilities of MARK WARNER, so E***s enjoying the Kids Club so much that she usually requested to go rather than, rather than us kind of saying, 'Do you want to go'. So E***end up, going to probably more sessions because she just got so much out of it and came back, so animated. And they were very good with them, they took them out, they changed, every half hour they'd do something different, they'd do something inside or they'd go to the beach or they'd go sailing or they'd go and play tennis, a really, really exciting day for E***d she would come back absolutely knackered. So I think that, that's just for clarification.

Yeah, I think, where it says I may have done some shopping but I really can't be certain, I recall Jane, Kate and Gerry playing tennis. We didn't eat out at lunchtime we generally ate with Rachael and Matt and this was in our apartment or theirs, as well as at David and Fiona's. After Madeleine disappeared we all began eating lunch at Dave and Fiona's apartment.
I think in the afternoon I may have been out with Matt, I had wanted to spend time as a family but Ella wanted to go to the kids club. Monday to Wednesday I can say that the days were all very similar and it is difficult to distinguish one from each other. I know that on one of the evenings either Monday or Tuesday I stayed in the flat with Evie as she wasn't well Jane brought my meals over to me this was mentioned in my first statement.

'We generally ate with Rachael and Matt', 'and this was in our apartment or theirs', I think it could be worth saying there 'We also ate in', 'Fiona and Dave's flat' full-stop. 'And then after Madeleine disappeared we all began eating in Dave and Fiona's', well 'We all began eating lunch at Dave and Fiona's apartment very, very, very regularly', that became the focus for us all. So just the addition of, 'and sometimes at Fiona and'".

1578 "'We didn't eat out at lunchtime we generally ate with Rachael and Matt'?"
Reply "'And this was in our apartment or theirs or also Fiona and Dave's', that's probably the easiest way of just adding it without changing the whole thing. So there was a, there was a sort of a circuit of lunches where all the kids would get together and after Madeleine disappeared we generally ate lunch at Dave and Fiona's apartment".
1578 "So we include 'or theirs/Dave and Fiona'?"
Reply "Dave and Fi as well, yeah. And then the next bit is fair enough, which is fair enough there that 'After Madeleine disappeared we began eating' maybe just 'lunch at Dave and Fiona's apartment regularly'. At the end, the next paragraph is fair, it's fair enough I think, I think that's fine.

I feel that this is more likely to have been Monday as I feel that we were all together as a group on Tuesday- nine adults. I believe that this was when the Trivia quiz had taken place.

An addition at the end maybe just saying, regarding the Monday and Tuesday, I think it was Monday night because, I have this recollection that on Tuesday it was the first night we'd all been together, the nine of us, actually, present".
00.42.23 1578 "Yes".
Reply "However Jane actually thinks that it was, Tuesday, it was probably Tuesday night, so we're, we're not entirely sure. I don't know if that's going to be very relevant, but I thought it was Monday and Jane thinks it might have been Tuesday".
1578 "You say 'Either Monday or Tuesday'?"
Reply "Yeah, so as long as, well".
1578 "You could cross-out 'either' and put in 'possibly'. 'Possibly Monday' and cross-out 'or Tuesday'?"

Reply "I don't know, maybe I'm just being fussy. I mean, it was either Monday or Tuesday, me and Jane can't quite agree on that one, we thought. Just leave it as it is".
1578 "If we leave it as it is. We do say 'Either Monday or Tuesday', don't we?"

by Daisy 13.11.11 18:47

Just posting this thread up here because it fits in perfectly with topic and contains some great info/research about this very 'mysterious' day.

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Interesting to note that in her statement Rachel Oldfield claims: "The only beach they members of the group went to was the beach in P da L."

by **HiDeHo** 15.11.11 23:49

MONDAY

No tennis records (Poss womens night)

BREAKFAST - no Dianne or McCanns

MONDAY April 30th
Ella O'Brien AM Madeleine McCann Amelie & Sean Lily	9.15 9.30 9.20 9.?	ROB GM ? DP	12.35 12.10 12.15 12.45	?? GM GM DP
Madeleine McCann PM Amelie & Sean Ella O'Brien Lily xxxx	3.15 3.25 4.00 xxxx	KM ? ROB xxxx	3.30 ? time XXXX xxxx	KM ? sig XXX xxxx

RMO
2007-05-15

On Monday they were told that there was no room for all of them in the restaurant, but they obtained a special favour from a waiter and all dined together. In order to obtain this favour they said that the children were asleep and that they could not move anywhere else. For this reason, from this day onwards they would reserve a space in the restaurant (for the adults) for the following day

Fiona and David spent morning on beach, after dropping children off, sailing with another chap. It was cold. They wore short wetsuits and returned when it was time to pick up the children.

[size=9]We know that the creche records show Kate dropping Madeleine off at 3.15pm then drops the twins off at 3.25pm and picks up Madeleine at 3.30pm. There is no record regarding what time the twins were picked up.

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Monday 30.04.2007
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning
Kids clubs:
Tennis 09.15-10.15 K
G 10.15-11.15
*? washing machine / blinds
Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave
Kids club?? beach
+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.
16:30 Tennis lessons
High tea
18:30? tennis night for women
Recreational area
Afternoon: K and J Supermarket
Rest. - everyone

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On Monday 30th April 2007, neither of the McCann’s telephones activated the Luz transmitters. This looks very odd, especially as they were around the Ocean Club to shuffle the kids to and from the crèches. On this afternoon, Madeleine remained in the crèche for only 15 minutes and was picked up by her mother at 15.30. We do not know what Madeleine did for the rest of the day, but it is possible she was being fractious. Interestingly, a friend of Mrs and Mr McCann supposedly told the “Dispatches” team that made a TV program on the tragedy, that “Madeleine was a screamer”. This could be interpreted in one of two ways, but any use of the past tense in referring to Madeleine would be very significant. It was such a past tense referral, to her supposedly living children, that alerted the FBI to their murder by Susan Smith, their mother

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by jd 08.09.12 19:48

Monday - Kate dropped Madeleine off at 3.15 and picked her up at 3.30 and ROB dropped E**a off at 4.00pm? (with no pickup time?)

The twins haven't been signed out on this day either

Murat books his flight late at night on this day too...jane tanner receives a mobiles call at 4am later that night/morning

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by **tigger** 08.09.12 20:51

Also more discussion in: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by **tigger** 08.09.12 20:55

Molly wrote:7.30 ish Up, wash, breakfast
UNKNOWN Rachel books Tapas for 9 at 20.30 for rest of week
9.30 MM to crèche (GM) Spaceship collage, Mini tennis, Crazy gloop, Kym’s game
9.20 Twins to creche (GM)
9.00 to 10.00 KM tennis
10.15 GM Tennis
UNKNOWN 5A Cleaned - in the morning during creche hours
12.10MM from Creche (GM)
12.15 Twins from crèche (GM)
UNKNOWN Lunch, where and when
15.15 MM to crèche (KM?) Sand painting moon pictures, garden adventure, mini dance
15.25 Twins to crèche (KM)
UNKNOWN K & Jane go to Baptista Supermarket
15.20? MM from Creche (KM) ??
17.20 Twins from crèche (KM)
UNKNOWN Ladies tennis evening
19.00ish Kids to bed
UNKNOWN Tapas, very cold (all there according to Kate)

I thought the cleaning lady came on Sunday and Wednesday.
We have her testimony re seeing three children in the morning, carrying cake on plates. She described their trainers with the little lights.

by jd 08.09.12 21:07

tigger wrote:Also more discussion in: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks Tigger, hadn't seen this topic. Why would you book a flight at midnight for the next morning 5 or so hours later, booking like this at that time of night is in a panic situation

Its interesting to read throughout the statements and how they seem to deflect away from Monday (30th April)...fiona payne in particular. The police were hammering away at her on events for this Monday but she always deflected away or giving very vague answers. By the end of it I'm not sure what they did on this Monday, went to the beach in the morning and the kids slept all afternoon in their apartment I think

Together a lot of different people have suspicious movements after lunchtime on this day April 30th is what I am seeing...

by jd 08.09.12 22:38

Russell O'Brien RI

I know that on one of the evenings either Monday or Tuesday I stayed in the flat with Evie as she wasn’t well Jane brought my meals over to me this was mentioned in my first statement. I feel that this is more likely to have been Monday as I feel that we were all together as a group on Tuesday- nine adults. I believe that this was when the Trivia quiz had taken place.

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by jd 22.09.12 13:40

kate mccann 6th September 2007

"The window in Kate's room was closed and she admits they used the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday."
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Documents show it was Tuesday
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The maintenance workers were fixing the blinds and showing Kate how to work the washing machine between 10 and 11.
Kate mccann was also 'supposedly' playing tennis 9.15am -10.15am. Was gerry mccann having a meeting with the owners of MW/OC/murat at this time on the 1st?

Did kate or gerry mccann break the shutters on the Monday letting out their shock and grief of what happened that afternoon?

by **tigger** 22.09.12 13:57

One might also wish to lower the shutters in a hurry (for whatever reason) and damage the mechanism in frustration. This could also have been on the Sunday -the 29th. One day to tidy up and after that call MW to mend the blinds?
These were the shutters in the 'living room' - was it the window under which the dogs alerted? Never occurred to me before. I'm sure it wasn't the famous window as the shutters there were down all of the time according to Kate.

29th was the first day of the creche etc.

by Guest 22.09.12 14:09

IIRC it were the shutters in the master bedroom ...

by jd 22.09.12 14:12

tigger wrote:One might also wish to lower the shutters in a hurry (for whatever reason) and damage the mechanism in frustration. This could also have been on the Sunday -the 29th. One day to tidy up and after that call MW to mend the blinds?
These were the shutters in the 'living room' - was it the window under which the dogs alerted? Never occurred to me before. I'm sure it wasn't the famous window as the shutters there were down all of the time according to Kate.

29th was the first day of the creche etc.

The dogs alerted under in the living room window. I 'think' the shutters the mccanns broke was in their bedroom (maybe looking for the later missing sports bag)

"The window in Kate’s room was closed and she admits they used the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday."
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by **tigger** 22.09.12 14:17

jd wrote:
tigger wrote:One might also wish to lower the shutters in a hurry (for whatever reason) and damage the mechanism in frustration. This could also have been on the Sunday -the 29th. One day to tidy up and after that call MW to mend the blinds?
These were the shutters in the 'living room' - was it the window under which the dogs alerted? Never occurred to me before. I'm sure it wasn't the famous window as the shutters there were down all of the time according to Kate.

29th was the first day of the creche etc.

The dogs alerted under in the living room window. I 'think' the shutters the mccanns broke was in their bedroom (maybe looking for the later missing sports bag)

"The window in Kate’s room was closed and she admits they used the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday."
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Ahh, thanks for putting me right. Sunday though, the 29th. The morning when the cleaner saw three children, all with the same kind of trainers, with little pink ligths, which have never been seen again.

by jd 22.09.12 14:38

tigger wrote:
jd wrote:
tigger wrote:One might also wish to lower the shutters in a hurry (for whatever reason) and damage the mechanism in frustration. This could also have been on the Sunday -the 29th. One day to tidy up and after that call MW to mend the blinds?
These were the shutters in the 'living room' - was it the window under which the dogs alerted? Never occurred to me before. I'm sure it wasn't the famous window as the shutters there were down all of the time according to Kate.

29th was the first day of the creche etc.

The dogs alerted under in the living room window. I 'think' the shutters the mccanns broke was in their bedroom (maybe looking for the later missing sports bag)

"The window in Kate’s room was closed and she admits they used the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday."
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Ahh, thanks for putting me right. Sunday though, the 29th. The morning when the cleaner saw three children, all with the same kind of trainers, with little pink ligths, which have never been seen again.

Just trying to make sense of the timeline and one that fits with all the facts. I really see something there smilie

Like the sandals in the tennis girl photo, these were never seen again!

"At about 1.15pm Cleaner - Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada saw family leave the apartment, Madeleine with shoes that lit up and the twins, all holding bread and Kate with a plate and Gerry looking up"
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by **Nina** 22.09.12 15:48

jd wrote:
tigger wrote:One might also wish to lower the shutters in a hurry (for whatever reason) and damage the mechanism in frustration. This could also have been on the Sunday -the 29th. One day to tidy up and after that call MW to mend the blinds?
These were the shutters in the 'living room' - was it the window under which the dogs alerted? Never occurred to me before. I'm sure it wasn't the famous window as the shutters there were down all of the time according to Kate.

29th was the first day of the creche etc.

The dogs alerted under in the living room window. I 'think' the shutters the mccanns broke was in their bedroom (maybe looking for the later missing sports bag)

"The window in Kate’s room was closed and she admits they used the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday."
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I understood the alert to be outside the bedroom patio window of the parents, the window shutters that Gerry broke. There is a narrow bit of terrace there, a low wall with the railings on top and below there there was also an alert.
These shutters would be heavy to raise, because of their size, and often due to the extra exertion required to raise them they can be pulled right up into the casing, wish I had a pound every time I have had to repair ours.

by **PeterMac** 22.09.12 15:51

Perhaps the abductor is also a shoe fetishist !
So we now have 9 pairs of pyjamas, (three for each child - many the same style and colour) and countless pairs of shoes. At least three pairs with lights, sandals, you name it.

by Liz Eagles 22.09.12 16:05

PeterMac wrote:Perhaps the abductor is also a shoe fetishist !
So we now have 9 pairs of pyjamas, (three for each child - many the same style and colour) and countless pairs of shoes. At least three pairs with lights, sandals, you name it.

and not long after the abduction the duo had a family day to go shopping for...wait for it....shoes for the twins!

by jd 22.09.12 16:19

PeterMac wrote:Perhaps the abductor is also a shoe fetishist !
So we now have 9 pairs of pyjamas, (three for each child - many the same style and colour) and countless pairs of shoes. At least three pairs with lights, sandals, you name it.

He certainly wasn't a toothbrush fairy!

by **tigger** 22.09.12 16:38

So - what about the 29th?

Because they can't have gone early to the creche - what time did the cleaning lady see them? Does it tally with the creche sheets?
On the 29th the shutters are broken too. What about the 29th from midday on?
Are there any documents withheld by the PJ which refer to this day and the next?

by jd 22.09.12 16:56

tigger wrote:So - what about the 29th?

Because they can't have gone early to the creche - what time did the cleaning lady see them? Does it tally with the creche sheets?
On the 29th the shutters are broken too. What about the 29th from midday on?
Are there any documents withheld by the PJ which refer to this day and the next?

Tigger, I remember you posted about Ella's injured foot a few days ago but I cannot find the topic. Did jane tanner say that Ella did not go to creche for the first few days of the holiday?

by Guest 22.09.12 17:09

JD, this is the topic. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Jane thinks that her daughter went to the creche on the Monday afternoon.

by jd 22.09.12 17:14

Jean wrote:JD, this is the topic. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Jane thinks that her daughter went to the creche on the Monday afternoon.

Thanks Jean. So in theory, the only time Maddie and Ella could have been at creche together is on Monday morning........

by jd 22.09.12 17:53

This could be interesting. On the last entry on the 30th April, I can just make out a signature at 4.30pm 'signing out' for Alexander. This looks like it could be the same 'sign in' signature for Richard Mann on the 1st May at the bottom of the creche sheet. The written name 'Richard Mann' on the 1st May looks possibly like gerry mccanns handwriting to me (and Robert Naylor on the 30th). The parents signature for both Alexander & Mann looks like the same free hand of kate mccann to me....This is all so very fishy indeed

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by Guest 22.09.12 17:56

jd wrote:
Jean wrote:JD, this is the topic. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Jane thinks that her daughter went to the creche on the Monday afternoon.

Thanks Jean. So in theory, the only time Maddie and Ella could have been at creche together is on Monday morning........

***

IF Ella went to the creche for the first time on monday AFTERNOON, how could monday MORNING have been the only time for Madeleine and Ella to be together????

In fact Ella went quite often to the creche at the same time as Madeleine. And I haven't found Lily's [Payne] name on the creche records. But then maybe she was in another group. Which would be strange, as from all of the children they probably knew each other best, as their parents were frequently seeing each other ...

by jd 22.09.12 18:11

If Ella went to creche monday AFTERNOON then Maddie was NOT THERE as she was signed out at 1530, and Ella did not arrive till 30 mins later at 1600

On the days after either Ella or Maddie is not signed out, or Cat Baker has signed one of them out except for the morning of 3rd May where they were into their 'routine' by then

by **tigger** 22.09.12 18:21

jd wrote:If Ella went to creche monday AFTERNOON then Maddie was NOT THERE as she was signed out at 1530, and Ella did not arrive till 30 mins later at 1600

On the days after either Ella or Maddie is not signed out, or Cat Baker has signed one of them out except for the morning of 3rd May where they were into their 'routine' by then

It may be that Cat Baker is not the most observant of people. We still have the bracelet problem too. We're pretty sure that Maddie perhaps never attended creche and was entered as having done so right from the start, whether there was an 'event' or not, she wasn't going to be seen in the creche.
a) she didn't have the coloboma and one nanny did say she'd never noticed it.
b) she didn't look like the photograph but perhaps the child x did. Which could be?
c) imo Maddie was too 'different' to go to the creche. She had tantrums, she was a screamer and she had ADS tendencies. In short, you'd know she had been in your group. The Maddie as described by the nannies was quiet and a little shy.

by Ross 22.09.12 18:29

tigger wrote:The Maddie as described by the nannies was quiet and a little shy.

And she was called 'Maddie' which according to her mother, Madeleine was not.

by jd 22.09.12 18:53

tigger wrote:
jd wrote:If Ella went to creche monday AFTERNOON then Maddie was NOT THERE as she was signed out at 1530, and Ella did not arrive till 30 mins later at 1600

On the days after either Ella or Maddie is not signed out, or Cat Baker has signed one of them out except for the morning of 3rd May where they were into their 'routine' by then

It may be that Cat Baker is not the most observant of people. We still have the bracelet problem too. We're pretty sure that Maddie perhaps never attended creche and was entered as having done so right from the start, whether there was an 'event' or not, she wasn't going to be seen in the creche.
a) she didn't have the coloboma and one nanny did say she'd never noticed it.
b) she didn't look like the photograph but perhaps the child x did. Which could be?
c) imo Maddie was too 'different' to go to the creche. She had tantrums, she was a screamer and she had ADS tendencies. In short, you'd know she had been in your group. The Maddie as described by the nannies was quiet and a little shy.

I know we don't have many creche sheets to go on but to me they look in order and how they should be until from the afternoon of 30th April. They all seem to be a big mess after this point