Monday April 30th - day 2

copying over my posts on the tapas group's phone records topic.. re- 30th April.



from Kate's diary.



Monday 30.04.2007

Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:

Tennis 09.15-10.15 K

G 10.15-11.15

*? washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave

Kids club?? beach

+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.

16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea

18:30? tennis night for women

Recreational area

Afternoon: K and J Supermarket

Rest. - everyone

how did they know the times of their checks? [my post copied over from phone records discussion]

Have not completed reading of phone activity, but have read this from
truth for madeleine site which appears to confirm what I am seeing so
far, that mobiles left behind when they had tapas meals.


The evidence from the call logs gives the strongest clue that the “Tapas
9” left their telephones in their rooms when they went to dinner.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCann’s spokesperson, confirmed this. In an
interview, reported on 6th April 2008 by Ned Temko of “The Guardian”, Mr
Mitchell said: “You had nine people in a bar without watches on,
without mobile phones and absolute panic set in when they realised what
had happened…. We would say that, if the police had a perfect time line
across nine people, that would be a damn sight more suspicious than the
fractured, illogical, composite statements they might have got”


now of clarrie is correct, how did the likes of Gerry and his pal who
did the check manage to be as precise as 9.04 or 9.05 for one of the
checks? and the sighting that never was, JT was precise about the time I
think.
good job im a lady or id say it was all a load of b******s


Tigger kindly posted the answer to my question :

I think Kate says in the book something like ' at exactly 9.00 by his watch, Gerry got up...etc. ' I'll have to trawl it.
found it!
'After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio
doors and noticed

and another.....


Unless I have misread ,there are no records
of K or G phone activity for April 30th, the day about which virtually
nothing was said in Kate's book. the day Maddie was signed out of creche
in the p.m. after 15 minutes while the twins stayed in theirs
apparently. A break in the established routine which I would have
expected to be described more fully in a book titled " madeleine".
A very significant day imo.
I have always wondered was it one of the twins crying for Maddie 1st May, missing big sister who was no longer there?

Tigger wrote: I think Kate says in the book something like ' at exactly 9.00 by his watch, Gerry got up...etc. ' I'll have to trawl it.
found it!
'After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio
doors and noticed ...
It really is amazes me how they are able to quote times to the minute but cannot remember whether they entered the flat by the patio doors or the front door etc. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes that is a very good point sniffer dog.

How Mrs Fenn only heard one child crying for such a long period of time? Surely the twins would have joined in even if not sleeping alongside Madeleine? Again if Amelie was crying in absence of Madeleine, surely her brother would also have been in support?

russiandoll wrote:copying over my posts on the tapas group's phone records topic.. re- 30th April.



from Kate's diary.



Monday 30.04.2007

Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:

Tennis 09.15-10.15 K

G 10.15-11.15

*? washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave

Kids club?? beach

+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.

16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea

18:30? tennis night for women

Recreational area

Afternoon: K and J Supermarket

Rest. - everyone

In Kates book 'madeleine' only the trip to the supermarket remains as a fact. "I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane"

All the other diary-mentioned 'facts' above are squirrelled away under a blanket: " The following days (i.e. starting with Wednesday 30th) settled into a similar pattern" And then:

We would have breakfast in the appartment;
We would drop Madeleine;
We would head to the courts for our hour long tennis lessons, mine was at 09.15, Gerry's at 10.15
(NOTE: so what was Gerry doing every day until 10.15?)

Etcetera.

Not once does Kate declare unequivocaly that on Wednesday she actually did this or that, the foray (?) to the supermarket aside.

Oh, and one attempt at stating a fact on this wednesday:
"again, there was quite a cold wind, but there were plenty of amusing stories and mickey-taking to keep us cheerful".

Presumably, dishing out amusing stories and mickey-taking (?) being some sort of adult outdoor heating replacement system, as these do not seem to have any bearing on the well being of their small children, left to fend for themselves in their cold unlit apartment(s).

And please note that the book does not repeat the mention of

the *? washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave

Kids club?? beach

+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.

16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea

18:30? tennis night for women


Now, why would that be?

Fiona Payne's rog: part two:
Reply “Erm, and I think why I’m thinking that is, I know Kate and Gerry did go to the beach, I think they tried to have lunch on the beach with the kids on one of the previous days and we didn’t, you know, and that’s maybe why I’m getting confused”.
1485 “Are you able to say what day that was that you think?”
Reply “Again, I couldn’t tell you. We didn’t really see Kate and Gerry for any lunchtimes, but I know one of those, I remember Kate saying it was a bit of a disaster, because Sean put his feet on the sand and didn’t like it and it was cold and windy and it was all a bit of a disaster, so they didn’t do it again. Erm, tut, yeah, so, you know, I am backtracking, but I think Thursday was the first day that we went down after the sleep time”.
Unquote.

Did not see them for any lunchtimes? I thought they all had this jolly lunch at the Paynes every day? That would include 30th.

tigger wrote:Fiona Payne's rog: part two:
Reply “Erm, and I think why I’m thinking that is, I know Kate and Gerry did go to the beach, I think they tried to have lunch on the beach with the kids on one of the previous days and we didn’t, you know, and that’s maybe why I’m getting confused”.
1485 “Are you able to say what day that was that you think?”
Reply “Again, I couldn’t tell you. We didn’t really see Kate and Gerry for any lunchtimes, but I know one of those, I remember Kate saying it was a bit of a disaster, because Sean put his feet on the sand and didn’t like it and it was cold and windy and it was all a bit of a disaster, so they didn’t do it again. Erm, tut, yeah, so, you know, I am backtracking, but I think Thursday was the first day that we went down after the sleep time”.
Unquote.

Did not see them for any lunchtimes? I thought they all had this jolly lunch at the Paynes every day? That would include 30th.

Tiggs, OK,

See diary as opposed to bewk

I hate to say this, but do NHS only hire the braindead? Thought not !!

russiandoll wrote:and another.....


Unless I have misread ,there are no records
of K or G phone activity for April 30th, the day about which virtually
nothing was said in Kate's book. the day Maddie was signed out of creche
in the p.m. after 15 minutes while the twins stayed in theirs
apparently. A break in the established routine which I would have
expected to be described more fully in a book titled " madeleine".
A very significant day imo.
I have always wondered was it one of the twins crying for Maddie 1st May, missing big sister who was no longer there?

Dear russian doll,
Those records were withheld from the public files by Pt judiciary, to be used later.
Fair enough, let later be now please!

Happy Easter to all

parapono

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Eta my margin on any art I sell through JH will go to a real good cause.
I'm all into lambs right now!

russiandoll wrote:and another.....


Unless I have misread ,there are no records
of K or G phone activity for April 30th, the day about which virtually
nothing was said in Kate's book. the day Maddie was signed out of creche
in the p.m. after 15 minutes while the twins stayed in theirs
apparently. A break in the established routine which I would have
expected to be described more fully in a book titled " madeleine".
A very significant day imo.
I have always wondered was it one of the twins crying for Maddie 1st May, missing big sister who was no longer there?

The crying is all wrong whichever way you look at it. Either somebody was crying for 'Daddy', or somebody was crying for 'Maddie'. If it was 'Daddy', this doesn't look very good for Kate. Children cry for their mother, unless their mother is already there and not helping, or they have a bad relationship with their mother. If it was 'Maddie', well ... it's the only way I can make sense of Kate's insistence that they didn't call her by this shortened form, which contradicts verifiable fact. And it would indicate that something had probably happened to Maddie at this point.

Here is the 30th of April topic, plenty of interesting facts and statements.




And

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And

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And

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Thought I'd bump this topic as the date has been much discussed recently.

There's more discussion of Monday, 30th in one of the creche threads.

Ladyinred wrote:Thought I'd bump this topic as the date has been much discussed recently.

There's more discussion of Monday, 30th in one of the creche threads.

This is what Stephen Carpenter said in his statement about Gerry McCann, around the date in question:
QUOTE
DCF: On Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, it says here that you got on well, that he communicated easily, he was fun, he talked to you about golf which was his favourite sport, that he wanted to improve his tennis during the week. On Sunday or Monday he twisted his ankle, but managed to keep on playing, and on Sunday morning he only played tennis with Kate, that you saw them both playing sport and they passed by you at the bar on the beach and this was Sunday or Monday at about mid day.

SC: Mmm, mmm.

DCF: And you saw both Gerry and Kate at the Tapas Bar on Sunday and afterwards on Thursday in the evening, apart from these occasions you just saw them in passing at the resort and you had no opportunity to get to know Kate'

SC: No.

UNQUOTE

So, when exactly, did Gerry McCann "twist his ankle"? From SC's statement it appears to be on the 30th April (Sunday)

SC, in the above quote, says Sunday (29th) or Monday (30th).

Ladyinred wrote:SC, in the above quote, says Sunday (29th) or Monday (30th).

TY Ladyinred. I am multi-tasking so any corrections are welcome

Ladyinred wrote:SC, in the above quote, says Sunday (29th) or Monday (30th).

If you are going to use a sub, there was no good reason to take Maddie along at all - logically speaking. The Tapas simply didn't know her at all or barely. Toddlers of that age look very similar.

Unless the intention was to take a lot of happy family photographs of the holiday in the first couple of days. Which would fit with a few niggles. e.g. why were the clearly photoshopped holiday photos of Donegal used within days? There is no mention that these were on the camera and they do not appear on the CDs passed to the PJ on the 9th of May.  CDs assembled by M. Wright and Gerry. Most photographs on those seems to be from the Paynes. (these are the photocopied images which can be found in the PJ files). The Donegal photos were in the possession of the Belfast Telegraph well before the 9th. The article was published on the 7th or 8th I believe.
The photograph of the girl in the playground is imo not Maddie. Those photographs were included in the two CDs but I don't know if the actual date they were taken can be traced.

I do believe that there was an accident very early on. The McCs were very definitly not prepared for this emergency and their behaviour, the telephone records (those 14 messages on 2/5) the conflicting rogatories and the various allusions by the Tapas to resuscitation, bumps on the head etc. (RM and ROB) plus the curious statement from Aunt Norah in 2011 that as doctors they could have covered it up, all point to an emergency and imo to the unwanted demise of Maddie. Whatever the plan was, this wasn't a part of it imo.

So Gerry having a twisted ankle would be a good excuse not to take part in the group's activities - poor man, and on Thursday he had an achilles tendon injury as well.


NORA PAUL (nee Healy) Year 2007

Kate's aunt (Brian Healy's sister) is Madeleine's godmother. She currently lives in Vancouver, Canada and has given interviews to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. "When Madeleine's godmother and great aunt Nora Healy was asked about the Portuguese police operation, she raised her eyebrows and said: "Well, it upped a gear when the British ambassador arrived." She is best remembered for her phone interview where she said, "There was six of them together, and there was a neurosurgeon, an anesthesiologist, there was six medical professionals. If there'd been an accident, (A) if it was accidental and they were doing something bad, THEY COVERED IT ... could have covered it up. If it was accidental, they'd have taken care of it.." Norah Paul was visiting her relatives in Skipton from her home in Vancouver when Madeleine went missing. Michael Wright then drove her to Liverpool to meet the Healys and all four flew to PDL on 4th May. Sue Healy and Nora Paul were photographed arriving together at the Mark Warner complex.

Posted by SteelMagnolia 

1578 “Okay. Did you want to mention something about Doctors in the group”?

RACHAEL OLDFIELD.

Reply “Yeah I was just going to say that, you know Kate and Gerry are both Doctors and you know there were three other medics in the group, erm four others actually sorry, four others, erm you know so if by any chance they’d accidentally done anything to Madeleine or she was ill or erm you know something wasn’t quite right, I mean they wouldn’t have just left her and sort of tried to cover it up as an accident or you know, they would of sort of you know, come and got Matt and Russell and Dave and Fi, erm I mean you know, not just because they are Doctors, because you know they’re parents and you’d kind of go to anyone to see who could help but if you’ve got, you know Doctors as friends who were there as well, erm you know there were kind of six people there who if Madeleine had accidentally been bumped on the head or you know whatever the theories are supposed to be, erm you know, there were plenty of people there who could of you know, tried to revive a child, erm”.
------------------------------------------------------
erm, you know, so if by any chance they’d accidentally done anything to Madeleine

WHO are the 'THEY'D' that might of, accidentally, 'DONE' anything to Madeleine?
--------------------------------
The seven witnesses include Rachael Oldfield, who has given her first ever interview to this programme.

(Rachael Oldfield) "I was there on the night. I spent time with Gerry and Kate during the week, you know, before the 3rd of May and afterwards. You know, their emotions and their reactions was just agonising. It was just no way they’re involved in anything to do with Madeleine’s disappearance."

"You know, if you take the common sense approach as well and just look at, you know, timings of how things happened and the fact that they’re both medics, there are four other medics in the group, they would know what to do to resuscitate a child… or anyone else for that matter. Anyone with an ounce of common sense really would be able to see that they couldn’t have done it. I was there and I know that they didn’t do it."
----------------------------------------------------------
The McS, COULDN'T have 'done' WHAT? ('IT')

The McS, DIDN'T 'do' WHAT? ('IT')

The 'timings'........... ONLY....... 'ACCORDING' to the T9!

JW does NOT 'get a mention' in the 'TIMINGS/timelines' of the T9 (TWICE) yet he is 'in the street', standing by the 'gateway', leading to G5A, 'chatting' with GM, at the 'exact' time JT 'see's a stranger, with child'.

JW, a most PIVITOL 'character'...................NO 'MENTION' in 'timings'!

WHAT am I 'not getting'? WHAT am I 'not seeing'?

Jeanmonroe
That perhaps JW had interrupted operations pushing his son in the pram back to his apartment, where Jt walked past both GMc, JW unbeknown to them and then spotted you know who, but failed to tell Kate after 22.00 as she would be more upset knowing that JT had seen the Abductor earlier on at 21.15pm 3 May 2007?

Forgot to add, that wasn't this the same day RM made a swift return back to Portugal catching a 07.00 am flight from UK(International Rescue)?
If Operation Grange has the phone records according to former DCI Andy Redwood, perhaps these would show which of the Special friends had contacted one another and what messages had been sent by text!?

I know this is slightly off topic but every time I turn around I find more parallels between the McCann and Ramsey cases. [I am much more versed in the latter case] The Boulder DA refused to write search warrants for the Ramsey's phone records. [the same DA who suppressed the fact that the Ramsey's were indicted back in 1999] The Ramsey's deleted their cell records the day or night of the murder. No one knows to this day who they called or who called them during the crucial time period.

There are also crucially important pictures in the Ramsey case that have never seen the light of day.