Met Police (Operation Grange) - Bollocks or not bollocks?

FWIW - The self-styled 'Queen of Portugal', viz Isabelle McFadden, has excitedly tweeted overnight that she has spoken to an officer named 'Mark' at Operation Grange.

He has reassured her that Operation Grange is a genuine, wholehearted search for the truth and that all the money spent so far, and the extra money allocated this last week, is fully justified to find the answer to what really happened to Madeleine McCann.

As I say..

...FWIW

Now why didn't you think about doing that Tony, now that we know Operation Grange is willing to give out investigative information to members of the public?

Maybe you could phone 'Mark' aswell?

Didn't Natasha publish an article the other day saying the 'Plug had been pulled on further funding'?

Tony Bennett wrote:FWIW - The self-styled 'Queen of Portugal', viz Isabelle McFadden, has excitedly tweeted overnight that she has spoken to an officer named 'Mark' at Operation Grange.

He has reassured her that Operation Grange is a genuine, wholehearted search for the truth and that all the money spent so far, and the extra money allocated this last week, is fully justified to find the answer to what really happened to Madeleine McCann.

As I say..

...FWIW

Mark is hardly going to say "Nope, it's a government cover up, but please don't tweet it on the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]".

Keep it to yourself Mrs McFadden, and please don't tell anyone on twitter my name's Mark, just in case DCI Wall gets to know I've been leaking information.

There are only four officers left on OG.

Allegedly.

"Mark"... we need an investigation.

Verity wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:FWIW - The self-styled 'Queen of Portugal', viz Isabelle McFadden, has excitedly tweeted overnight that she has spoken to an officer named 'Mark' at Operation Grange.

He has reassured her that Operation Grange is a genuine, wholehearted search for the truth and that all the money spent so far, and the extra money allocated this last week, is fully justified to find the answer to what really happened to Madeleine McCann.

As I say..

...FWIW

Mark is hardly going to say "Nope, it's a government cover up, but please don't tweet it on the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]".

Keep it to yourself Mrs McFadden, and please don't tell anyone on twitter my name's Mark, just in case DCI Wall gets to know I've been leaking information.

Verily shhh…, Verity.

BlueBag wrote:There are only four officers left on OG.

Allegedly.

"Mark"... we need an investigation.

I’ve heard there were three.
 
Shhh,,, (Let’s mark “Mark”)  Shhh...

Jill Havern wrote:Now why didn't you think about doing that Tony, now that we know Operation Grange is willing to give out investigative information to members of the public?

Maybe you could phone 'Mark' aswell?

Didn't Natasha publish an article the other day saying the 'Plug had been pulled on further funding'?

Ah! But don't you know that Isabelle McFadden has access to all the people that really matter...

1 Like she is a mate of Brian Kennedy, master of the dodgy private investigations...she told us how Kennedy admired her work and told us that he REALLY REALLY wanted to help solve the case

2 Like she's chummy with officer Mark at Operation Grange who satisfies her that their investigation is REALLY genuine and the new money is sorely needed and might solve the case

3 Like she chats up the bloke at Wayback who says that the Madeleine McCann page on the CEOP website dated Monday 30 April was 'only a glitch'

...And it's noted that she promotes the work of Sonia Poulton & Rosalind Hutton & others who refer to this forum as a 'cesspit'...

And it's also noted that she's insistent that Maddie died after 6pm Thursday 3rd May & that 'Smithman' = Gerry  and she has rubbished Richard Hall's documentaries.

Something is very wrong there.

Joana Morais had her well sussed years ago

News story

Home Office statement on Madeleine McCann

The Home Office today announced that the Metropolitan Police Service will be bringing their expertise to the case regarding the search for Madeleine McCann.

Published 12 May 2011


From:   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This was published under the 2010 to 2015 Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition government

A Home Office spokesperson said: ‘The government’s primary concern has always been and remains the safe return of Madeleine. Although she disappeared in Portugal, and the Portuguese retain the lead responsibility in the case, law enforcement agencies here have continued to follow up leads and pass information to the Portuguese authorities as appropriate.

‘The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have today agreed with Sir Paul Stephenson that the Metropolitan Police will bring its particular expertise to this case. Clearly, the detail of what that will entail will be a matter of operational judgment and it would not be appropriate to discuss at this stage.’

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Home Office spokesperson wrote:Clearly, the detail of what that will entail will be a matter of operational judgment and it would not be appropriate to discuss at this stage.

Operation Grange Remit   -  May 2011

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.  

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’.  This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);

The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
UK Law Enforcement agencies,
Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.  

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.

Hi Verdi,The "Gold Group" will bring its particular expertise to the case,as of 8th May 2007,working under the guise of the Metropolitan Police service?

Then add in the Leicestershire Police Special assistance,but of course there has been No collaboration,coincidences,nor collusion you understand,just Top flight Police work,Eight years later,Zilch?

Whats the Re-mit again,ah Abduction,Mr Mark Rowley,No matter how Madeleine left the Apartment she was Abducted!

I did make a FOI request not so long back enquiring about Operation Grange and its full time team.  My most recent correspondence with them saw me asking for clarification over the initial answer I received, I also took the opportunity to ask about the remit of Operation Grange:


"I wonder if I might trouble you with some further questions regarding your response as it appears that you have not fully answered one of my questions.


I asked "Are there still 4 (four) full time officers/detectives working on the case full time, under DCI Wall etc"?  And your response was "The MPS can confirm that Operation Grange is still being worked by four full time officers under DCI Nicola Wall".  Can you please confirm that these four officers under DCI Wall are working on the case (Operation Grange) full time as originally requested ie. collating, assessing, reviewing, investigating evidence, anomalies, information etc on a full time basis purely to do with Operation Grange.  Yes they might be full time as per their contract of employment but are they fulfilling these hours purely with Operation Grange?
Whilst on the subject can you also please tell me if the remit for Operation Grange has changed at all since its release and inception in 2011 and therefore confirm that Operation Grange are still adhering to that given remit, a remit which specifically stated "it was 'seeking' to determine (as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"?




This was the response as of 16th October 2018:
"Following on from my email yesterday, I have received the following in order to address your query:
 
The MPS can confirm that Operation Grange is still being worked by four full time officers under DCI Nicola Wall – those officers are not investigating other cases.
 
As explained before, the questions about the remit will be dealt with as a new request and you will hear shortly.
 
I hope this answers your question.
 
Kind regards,"




Nothing further to report back with at present.

Loving the courier guys!  Nice.

Wikipedia for what it's worth - saucy beggars..

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I have been sent this response today for your information:

I write in connection with your request for information which was received by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 11/10/2018.  I note you seek access to the following: 

• Can you also please tell me if the remit for Operation Grange has changed at all since its release and inception in 2011 and therefore confirm that Operation Grange are still adhering to that given remit, a remit which specifically stated "it was 'seeking' to determine (as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"?
  
  

SEARCHES TO LOCATE INFORMATION 

To locate the information relevant to your request searches were conducted by the Operation Grange team.  The searches located information relevant to your request. 

DECISION 

I have today decided to disclose the information to you in full in order to answer your question. 

The remit of the initial activity of Operation Grange was that of an 'investigative review'.  This was published on the MPS website in January 2012.  In July 2013 this status changed to that of a 'formal investigation'.  The updated status of Operation Grange was extensively publicised in the media at that time, and explained by the then SIO, DCI Andy Redwood.   

The original Terms of Reference for the 'investigative review' can be found below. 

"Op Grange Remit 

On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case. 

The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction. 

The Portuguese authorities retain the lead. 

While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available here. 

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.   

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an 'investigative review'.  This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann's disappearance. 

The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy); 

• The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
  
  
• UK Law Enforcement agencies,
  
  
• Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.
  
  

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.   

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any "action stage" if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process. 

The 'investigative review' will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness. 

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit. 

End" 

Should you have any further enquiries concerning this matter, please contact me  quoting the reference number above.

I have asked this additionally in response.

Thank you kindly for your reply.  So I am crystal clear on your answer may I just confirm then that when the "investigative review" moved to "formal investigation", that "formal investigation" was still adhering to or under the one and only given/stated remit for Operation Grange which is detailed in your response below?  So I understand correctly from your response below the remit for Operation Grange has not changed since 2011?

Isabelle McFadden is quite clear on Twitter.  She has been told via speaking to them directly on the phone (allegedly) that the remit has/had changed at some point.  So how and why do the Met see fit to tell some random Portuguese lady living in the States live to their ears but not a member of their own citizens who's funding the investigation.

Good question!


A voice to be reckoned with, this stateside individual must know more about the case than anyone, with direct access (hotline) to police in the UK and USA, journalists, doctors and a variety of people directly connected and/or indirectly to the case.

Impressive !  What a pity she can't reveal or share her extensive knowledge.

We also await a (no doubt garbled) response to Tony's FOI request about continued funding for OG, due  by next Tuesday.

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Philo Beddoe wrote:Isabelle McFadden is quite clear on Twitter.  She has been told via speaking to them directly on the phone (allegedly) that the remit has/had changed at some point.  So how and why do the Met see fit to tell some random Portuguese lady living in the States live to their ears but not a member of their own citizens who's funding the investigation.

Hi Philo Beddoe,

Perhaps Isabelle McFadden knows Rock Pool paddler Michael who has various disguises(Twitter) and recently posted copies of  bills for articles consumed from menus in America!
Perhaps Michael and Isabelle met up at one of these venues,because its a strange World sitting at a Computer monitoring evidence from the internet on behalf of the McCann family,especially when payments come from the "Find Madeleine Fund",conveniently set up after 11 days of the child,Madeleine reported as missing?

Doug D wrote:We also await a (no doubt garbled) response to Tony's FOI request about continued funding for OG, due  by next Tuesday.

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I believe the Home Office already pre-empted the need to reply to any more FOI requests with their September 2018 blog. Lest they forget..

Funding for Operation Grange

The Home Office responds to media coverage on funding for Operation Grange

There has been media coverage of funding for Operation Grange, the Metropolitan Police Service’s (MPS) operation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Some of the recent coverage has suggested that funding for Operation Grange will expire on 30 September 2018, and that the MPS will be unable to continue the operation thereafter unless additional funds are provided.

We have received and are considering a request from the MPS to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.

Funding for Special Grant applications can be paid retrospectively for operational work already done in the same financial year. It is therefore incorrect to suggest that the MPS would have to discontinue its operational work after 30 September 2018 unless additional funds were provided in advance of this date.

The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.

Special Grant funding is usually available to police forces when they face significant or exceptional costs. The cost of Operation Grange – which, to date, is £11.6m – has been met through Special Grant funding.

As usual, full details of any Special Grant awards in 2018/19 will be published after the end of the financial year.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Further response from FOI request.

Apologies for the delay in responding to you.  


My response below stated the following:
 
The remit of the initial activity of Operation Grange was that of an 'investigative review'.  This was published on the MPS website in January 2012.  In July 2013 this status changed to that of a 'formal investigation'.  
 
Therefore the remit has changed since the initial activity.  You were also provided with the original remit, as this was disclosed to the public at the time.  However I have not disclosed the current remit as it did not form part of the request.  Furthermore, given that this is a current investigation, this remit is likely to be covered by exemptions.  Should you want to request it, please send a new request to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].uk where it can be logged as a new request and assessed in accordance with the Act.
 
Apologies again for the delay, and I hope this clarifies matters.

If I received a response like that from someone other than a government representative, I'd swear whoever was taking the pea eye double s. 

Alternatively I guess it could just be an employee following text book procedure.  Whatever, it's playing word games.  

They know you know Operation Grange was upgraded to some form of investgation in 2013, it's the remit of that change in 2013 that's in question.  Evading the point I think!

Get back in there Philo and ask the new question!

Jill Havern wrote:Get back in there Philo and ask the new question!

Hi Jill Havern,this Operation Grange,now"Investigation" is Not to include Kate,Gerry and Tapas7/9,as Mr Mark Rowley,Assistant Commissioner declared alongside DCI Redwood,they were Not Persons of Interest or Suspects,as per Crime Watch October 2013!

Therefore any persons excluding the above mentioned persons,being in Portugal on 3 May 2007 are determined to be person's of interest and possible suspects?
Now that, that is clear can you now try to find the abductors of Madeleine McCann please!

‘Two vital new leads’ says ‘our Trace’.
 
‘....could finally be closing in on kidnapper......’.

Surely news to make the heart sing on a Sunday (or not)! Go it girl! 

At least we have persuaded her to drop the word ‘buoyed’ from her cut and paste jobs!


Fresh hope for Kate and Gerry McCann as they meet with Scotland Yard detectives to discuss two vital new leads in the search for daughter Madeleine


·       The Operation Grange team told the parents in a meeting they had two leads
·       Kate and Gerry are 'greatly encouraged' that Scotland Yard could be closing in 
·       The Home Office said it would grant £150,000 to keep the investigation going


By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

PUBLISHED: 12:12, 18 November 2018 | UPDATED: 14:27, 18 November 2018
 
Fresh hope for Kate and Gerry McCann as police pursue two leads
 
Madeleine McCann vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal's Praia da Luz in May 2007
Police have told the parents of Madeleine McCann that they are 'hopeful' for a result as they pursue two vital new leads.  
The Operation Grange team, who had been thought to be focusing on just one, told Kate and Gerry during a meeting thought to be at their Leicestershire home, that they had 'two specific and active' lines of inquiry.
Kate and Gerry, both 50, are 'greatly encouraged' that Scotland Yard could finally be closing in on Maddie's kidnapper after eleven-and-a-half years.

The Home Office last week announced it would grant an extra £150,000 to Operation Grange to keep the investigation going until spring next year. So far they have handed out £11.75 million of taxpayers' money for the high-profile search.
A Whitehall source said: 'Metropolitan Police officers had a sit-down meeting with Madeleine's parents to tell them exactly where they were with their inquiries. 
'They informed them they had two specific and active leads that still needed to be chased and that although the investigation was taking longer than they initially thought officers said they were confident and hopeful they could get a result.' 
 
Kate and Gerry, both 50, are 'greatly encouraged' that Scotland Yard could finally be closing in on Maddie's kidnapper after eleven-and-a-half years
'The first night felt like it lasted forever': Gerry McCann recalls
 
Police refuse to make public any clues about the suspects they are determined to track down for fear of them going to ground.
Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal's Praia da Luz in May 2007. She had been left alone sleeping with her younger twin siblings while her parents were dining in a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.

The Home Office last week announced it would grant an extra £150,000 to Operation Grange to keep the investigation to find Maddie going until spring next year


Previously police confirmed they believed the blonde child was snatched by a paedophile gang who may have smuggled her over the border or grabbed during a botched burglary at the holiday complex. 
They have also been keen to identify a woman in purple seen hanging around the holiday flat.
A senior Government source added: 'Police seeking special grant funding have needed to justify exactly what the money would be spent on, who they are chasing and why. 
'They have had to outline their intended work in full detail and careful consideration has been given but we cannot divulge any aspects of that while there is an ongoing operation.'
Police advised the McCann's there was still 'important work left to be done' as they requested extra funding, allaying the family's fears that the London force's seven-and-a-half year investigation could be shelved. 
Kate and Gerry, who have 13-year-old twins Sean and Amelie, cling onto a glimmer of hope that Maddie, who would now be 15, could still be alive after all this time.
The McCann's spokesperson Clarence Mitchell said the couple were 'incredibly grateful' and 'greatly encouraged' for the approved extra funding amid stringent Government and police cutbacks.
He said: 'They are greatly encouraged that the Met Police still believe there is work left to be done in the search for their daughter and they remain incredibly grateful to the Home Office for providing an extra budget for the investigation. 
 
Police advised the McCann's there was still 'important work left to be done' as they requested extra funding
'It is a boost the while family and gives them renewed hope that one day they may finally find out what happened to Madeleine.'
Mr Mitchell added: 'Kate and Gerry appreciate everything the authorities have done and are doing to get a resolution after all this time. Beyond this they cannot comment on the ongoing operation.'
The extra cash - which has been slammed by a mother of another missing girl and outspoken TV and media personality Janet Street-Porter - will enable Grange to keep going until the end of March next year.
The Yard had applied for renewed funding in September but the Home Office only confirmed last Tuesday that it had been approved, as revealed by MailOnline.
 
The Find Maddie Campaign website, run by a family friend but endorsed by Kate and Gerry, has updated its cover photo with the word 'hope'
The McCanns vow to do 'whatever it takes' to find Madeleine
 
Maddie's parents, however, had been told weeks ago by police that they expected the grant to be made.
A spokesperson said: 'We have confirmed that Special Grant funding of £150,000 will be provided to the Metropolitan Police Service for the six-month period to 31 March 2019. This is an ongoing police investigation.' 
The British inquiry, launched in May 2011 after an initial bungled Portuguese investigation and the McCann's own funded private eye searches, is spearheaded by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall. 
 
Kate and Gerry, who have 13-year-old twins Sean and Amelie, cling onto a glimmer of hope that Maddie, who would now be 15, could still be alive after all this time
A force spokesperson said: 'We still have important work to do and focused lines of investigation to be pursued. 
'The inquiry has not reached a conclusion and we're continuing with focus and determination. There are no immediate plans to reduce officer numbers further at this time.'
Ex-police chiefs and some members of public have slammed the Maddie inquiry as a waste of public money and officers' time. 
This week Karen Downs, whose 14-year-old daughter Charlene vanished from Blackpool, Lancashire, in November 2003, hit out at the 'preferential' treatment given to the McCanns, saying other missing kids were 'simply being forgotten.'
Controversial Loose Women star Janet Street-Porter also slammed the fresh funding for the 'fruitless search for Maddie' in a MailOnline article, asking: 'Isn't it time we prioritised the children who are dying here and now today?'
She said: 'The McCanns have consistently used emotional blackmail to ensure the government continues to fund a hopeless investigation at the expense of others. The next generation of young people need all their attention now.
'Why does the search for Madeleine attract more resources than investigating the thousands of other children and teenagers who have gone missing in the UK in the last decade?'
Maddie's parents have posted a simple but poignant message of hope as police pledge to find out what happened to their daughter.
The Find Maddie Campaign website, run by a family friend but endorsed by Kate and Gerry, has updated its cover photo.
The word 'Hope' written in yellow to symbolise the Portuguese colour of strength and solidarity against a vibrant background, is accompanied by a brief note to supporters: 'We just want to thank you continuing to be by our side and keeping Madeleine in your heart.'
Well wisher Jean Payne responded: 'Madeleine will always be remembered, and hope that one day you'll all receive the good news that you've waited so long to hear.'
Mary Ann Baldie added: 'Always thinking of her and her family not just her parents but grandparents, aunties, it must be hell on earth for them all.'
Micki Barnes posted: 'Someone knows about Madeleine. It's just a matter of time. OG must be getting nearer.' 
 
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For reference..

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Snipped from a latest news post..

Some people think that while the investigation is still open then public scrutiny is blocked.

The public have been scrutinizing the case of missing Madeleine McCann to the ninth degree since the summer of 2007.  More so since the PJ files were made public a year later  You only need look back on this forum alone to get an idea of the scale of public interest and this is by no means the only venue on social media that discusses the case - although I can say without fear of fair criticism, CMoMM is undoubtedly the best!

Operation Grange are not investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, they have no authority to muscle in on an open investigation of a crime committed on foreign soil, after all, no criminal investigation is closed until satisfactorily resolved.  The UK police can only assist the Portuguese force, or act as a point of liaison.  That doesn't require a 40 strong unit located in London's Belgravia (now reduced to 3/4) + various local forces throughout England, Ireland and Scotland.

If the UK are investigating anything directly or indirectly associated with the case of missing Madeleine McCann, it has to be a crime committed on home soil - like a fraudulent fund, nationwide child abuse scandal or such like.  I could be wrong but I doubt Operation Grange would have been established for any other reason than a smoke screen, a quadruple layer of good old fashioned distemper.

There are multiple dedicated police units operating within the UK, created to handle specific crime - like the fraud squad for example. 

The Operation Grange remit is on public record, by their own admission the initial purpose of undertaking a 'review' of the case in May 2011 by coordinating information from all sources, including the crooked private investigators hired by team McCann [cough!], was itself 'reviewed' in May 2013 using a key word .... 'investigation'. 

So back to square one, Operation Grange has no jurisdiction to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  If they know something we don't know (as nudge nudge they're not going to give running commentary) I seriously doubt they would have reduced the workforce to three or four officers back in October (that month again) 2015.  That folks is well over three years ago and they're still trundling on begging for additional funding every six months.

There has to be another reason why Operation Grange is being kept alive - at present it's a mystery to me.  The McCanns themselves all but threw in the towel in May (that month again) 2017, on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.  The inevitable move in my view.

Let's see what 2019 adds to the Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann.  Something positive for Madeleine I hope

Hi Verdi,you are correct,Operation Grange is a load of Bollocks and it just doesn't involve the supposed disappearance of Madeleine McCann 3 May 2007?

Take the unsolved Murder of Daniel Morgan,10 March 1987 and you ask,who was Mr Daniel Morgan and why was he Murdered,the connections to Metropolitan Police Officers,stories sold to News Papers,their proprietors,Rupert Murdoch,then the story begins of Politicians and the corrupt"Establishment"!

Eight years ago a certain Home Secretary,Theresa May promised some sort of disclosure to Mrs Morgan(Daniel's, Mum,Family),since then Mrs Morgan has passed away knowing she was  No nearer to the Truth,Brexit has shown how mendacious Mrs May is or has become!

The Metropolitan Police have asked IOPC for extra time to submit evidence to them(18 Months) so Ten years later still No comfort to the Morgan family,relatives,just innocuous,meaningless words by the bent,corrupt establishment!

Much of what you now see in Madeleine McCann's supposed disappearance, with No guilty parties even being questioned by relevant Authorities,except to pervert the course of Justice that is?