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Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

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Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 14:04

Let's try it one more time.

Take a cigarette paper and slip it into the following sequence and show where there is sufficient time for an intruder to
Enter, sedate three children, select one, pick her up, exit and make his escape.
Let us welcome the supporters of the Abduction theory with open arms if they can show how this could be achieved.
Let us ask journalists to ask one of the Tapas group how they think it might have been achieved
Let us ask the ace Investigative journalists where the time slot is

The times are taken from the THREE different versions prepared by the Tapas group.
(The final typed one, done by the entire group takes the best bits of the previous two and changes them to fit the commentary.)

2104  GM leaves Tapas bar
2105  Arrives side gate
2106 Gerry in apartment checks chldren
2106  Uses toilet
2107  Leaves via patio doors
2108  GM closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs into street
2109  - 2116   Talks to JW
2114  JT leaves Tapas
2115   JT passes gate
2116  JT crosses car park
2120   JT crosses car park - On her way back
2121  JT passes gate  - On her way back
2125  MO and RJO pass gate
2126  MO and RJO cross car park
2129  MO crosses car park  - On his way back
2130  MO enters 5A checks children
2134  MO closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs
2135  MO back in Tapas bar
2140  JT passes gate  
2141 JT crosses car park
2144  RJO crosses car park - On his way back
2145 RJO passes gate  - On his way back
2146 RJO returns to Tapas
2153  KM leaves Tapas
2154 KM enters apartment
2155  KM realises and searches apartment
2158  KM return to Tapas
2159 KM return to apartment
2200  KM and GM in apartment

Reconstruction anyone ?
Are you surprised they all refused ?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by inspirespirit on 08.10.14 14:09

Do we know what time G got back to Tapas Bar?

Did JT go back checking again after only being back at Tapas bar less than 10 mins?
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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Dont Make Me Laff on 08.10.14 14:12

That's a whole hour PeterMac - of just members of the McTeam on the street
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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by inspirespirit on 08.10.14 14:14

I've never actually seen it written like that before.   Really interesting.
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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 14:41

@inspirespirit wrote:Do we know what time G got back to Tapas Bar?

Did JT go back checking again after only being back at Tapas bar less than 10 mins?

not according to the first two attempts, stickerbook 1 and stickerbook 2
but on the amended versions, (Three pages of A4)
2120 JY returns to the restaurant
2140 JT returns to 5D to take over care of E*** from RJO
2145 RJO returns to table to eat main course leaving JT in 5D

(Please don't try to make it make sense !)
Not one of them with the exception of JT seeing GM and JW, speaks of having met any of the others in the street, so we assume each trip out and back was completed before the next one.

And as the next poster points out, there is also JW and, as we now know, Tannerman wandering around seeing what is going on, and they report nothing.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by bobbin on 08.10.14 14:50

@inspirespirit wrote:Do we know what time G got back to Tapas Bar?

Did JT go back checking again after only being back at Tapas bar less than 10 mins?
9.21 p.m. to 9.41 p.m. Jane passes gate back to restaurant, then leaves to let ROB go down for his dinner, having eaten hers in that time, child being ill apparently. IIRC RoB did an amazing bed changing baby bathing etc. etc. job in this short time. Perhaps someone would correct me.
What concerns me is how RoB was eating his dinner when most of the witness statements claim that the fuss all kicked off around 9.30 to 9.40 at which time the table had cleared leaving only Dianne Webster.
Was he at table or what ?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 14:52

I am fascinated to know what Grange, Winters and Goose, Mitchell, the Tapas group, Carter-Ruck, Twitter trolls, Facebook Stalkers, and the McCanns themselves make of it.
(We know what Dr Amaral and his successors, and the Public prosecutors, and The ACC Leicestershire, and John Stalker, and the rest thought ! )

Originals to be found at
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html
scroll down two pages for Stickerbook 1 and Stickerbook 2
and about half way down the whole screen for the typed version

ATTACHED

On this date, I attached to these official papers 3 computer printed pages, relating to the description of the events, that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people
.      

Portimão, 10 May 2007
INSPECTOR
M.P.
or
http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tapastimeline2.jpg&target=tlx_pic9on8

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tapastimeline3.jpg&target=tlx_picyl09

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tapastimeline4.jpg&target=tlx_picfgv8

NOTE
that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people.    
Or in Plain English - a Conspiracy ?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by bobbin on 08.10.14 14:55

@PeterMac wrote:Let's try it one more time.

Take a cigarette paper and slip it into the following sequence and show where there is sufficient time for an intruder to
Enter, sedate three children, select one, pick her up, exit and make his escape.
Let us welcome the supporters of the Abduction theory with open arms if they can show how this could be achieved.
Let us ask journalists to ask one of the Tapas group how they think it might have been achieved
Let us ask the ace Investigative journalists where the time slot is

The times are taken from the THREE different versions prepared by the Tapas group.
(The final typed one, done by the entire group takes the best bits of the previous two and changes them to fit the commentary.)

2104  GM leaves Tapas bar
2105  Arrives side gate
2106 Gerry in apartment checks chldren
2106  Uses toilet
2107  Leaves via patio doors
2108  GM closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs into street
2109  - 2116   Talks to JW
2114  JT leaves Tapas
2115   JT passes gate
2116  JT crosses car park
2120   JT crosses car park - On her way back
2121  JT passes gate  - On her way back
2125  MO and RJO pass gate
2126  MO and RJO cross car park
2129  MO crosses car park  - On his way back
2130  MO enters 5A checks children
2134  MO closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs
2135  MO back in Tapas bar
2140  JT passes gate  
2141 JT crosses car park
2144  RJO crosses car park - On his way back
2145 RJO passes gate  - On his way back
2146 RJO returns to Tapas
2153  KM leaves Tapas
2154 KM enters apartment
2155  KM realises and searches apartment
2158  KM return to Tapas
2159 KM return to apartment
2200  KM and GM in apartment

Reconstruction anyone ?
Are you surprised they all refused ?
Brilliant piece of work by the way PeteMac. Thank you, almost makes me laugh, if I weren't still so very sad inside about Brenda Leyland who is now the most compelling reason to carry on carrying on, to get the truth into the light.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 14:56

@bobbin wrote:
What concerns me is how RoB was eating his dinner when most of the witness statements claim that the fuss all kicked off around 9.30 to 9.40 at which time the table had cleared leaving only Dianne Webster.
Was he at table or what ?

Ah, but that is the independent witnesses.
Independent witnesses are "Incredibly unreliable"
The only thing that matters is the statements of the Tapas group, even if they contradict each other they are "incredibly reliable".
Which is why everything is in neat 5 minute blocks.

(By the way which of Kate's statements that the curtains were wide open, or tight closed is "incredibly unreliable" ? )

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by bobbin on 08.10.14 15:01

@PeterMac wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
What concerns me is how RoB was eating his dinner when most of the witness statements claim that the fuss all kicked off around 9.30 to 9.40 at which time the table had cleared leaving only Dianne Webster.
Was he at table or what ?

Ah, but that is the independent witnesses.
Independent witnesses are "Incredibly unreliable"
The only thing that matters is the statements of the Tapas group, even if they contradict each other they are "incredibly reliable".
Which is why everything is in neat 5 minute blocks.

(By the way which of Kate's statements that the curtains were wide open, or tight closed is "incredibly unreliable" ? )
Yes, silly me. The independent witnesses almost make it possible that some time could have been freed up for a real 'quickie' abduction between 9.30 and 9.40 but the comings and goings of MO, ROB and JT eclipse that.
Oh dear, we'll just have to accept that there was no abduction since there was no window of opportunity to do one.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 15:33


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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by tigger on 08.10.14 15:41

@PeterMac wrote:I am fascinated to know what Grange, Winters and Goose, Mitchell, the Tapas group, Carter-Ruck, Twitter trolls, Facebook Stalkers, and the McCanns themselves make of it.
(We know what Dr Amaral and his successors, and the Public prosecutors, and The ACC Leicestershire, and John Stalker, and the rest thought ! )

Originals to be found at
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html
scroll down two pages for Stickerbook 1 and Stickerbook 2
and about half way down the whole screen for the typed version

ATTACHED

On this date, I attached to these official papers 3 computer printed pages, relating to the description of the events, that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people
.      

Portimão, 10 May 2007
INSPECTOR
M.P.
or
http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tapastimeline2.jpg&target=tlx_pic9on8

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tapastimeline3.jpg&target=tlx_picyl09

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tapastimeline4.jpg&target=tlx_picfgv8

NOTE
that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people.    
Or in Plain English - a Conspiracy ?

Wasn't it the case that they were not allowed to take the typed sheets with them into the interviewing room?

Which would explain why Rachel stuck to the written note: all shutters down, specifically including those of the patio doors.
So that would be another 30 seconds  or so, much longer  if you're trying to do it silently, say two minutes and thst's before you've sedated the children, who will need it by now as the raising of the shutter has woken them up... spit coffee

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 16:49

@tigger wrote:
Wasn't it the case that they were not allowed to take the typed sheets with them into the interviewing room ?
Which would explain why Rachel stuck to the written note: all shutters down, specifically including those of the patio doors. . .

Rachel really stuffed up he whole thing by sticking to the script she had been given. She argued with GM about which side of the road he was, and burst into tears when he bullied her on the mockumentary reconstruction as she realised he had just called a liar of a fantasist of a programme to be sent out to the entire world, - and still on YouTube for anyone who relishes seeing a woman cry ; she specifically said the Patio door shutters were down, (which she had no need to do ), she does not say she hears everyone screaming and slamming doors even though her apartment is within a few metres of 5A, and sound travels i empty concrete blocks, she did not tell KM about the sighting, though she then stuffed that up by telling the group which included GM

She is a terrible liability - for the McCanns.




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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by viaveritasvita on 08.10.14 16:52

@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Wasn't it the case that they were not allowed to take the typed sheets with them into the interviewing room ?
Which would explain why Rachel stuck to the written note: all shutters down, specifically including those of the patio doors. . .

Rachel really stuffed up he whole thing by sticking to the script she had been given.  She argued with GM about which side of the road he was,  and burst into tears when he bullied her on the mockumentary reconstruction as she realised he had just called a liar of a fantasist of a programme to be sent out to the entire world, - and still on YouTube for anyone who relishes seeing a woman cry ;  she specifically said the Patio door shutters were down, (which she had no need to do ), she does not say she hears everyone screaming and slamming doors even though her apartment is within a few metres of 5A, and sound travels i empty concrete blocks, she did not tell KM about the sighting, though she then stuffed that up by telling the group which included GM

She is a terrible liability - for the McCanns.



Don,t you mean Jane ?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Naz_Nomad on 08.10.14 20:47

Are there any computer geniuses (genii?) who can put these timings into a computer animation?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Guest on 08.10.14 21:03

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Dont Make Me Laff on 08.10.14 21:17

well done PMac & Admin
If it weren't so tragic it'd be funay
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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by inspirespirit on 08.10.14 21:36

Spent ages trying to work it all out.   I get it now.   It can't be worked out 'cos it didn't happen.   duh, I can be a bit blonde at times. lol.
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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by XTC on 08.10.14 22:27

@PeterMac wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
What concerns me is how RoB was eating his dinner when most of the witness statements claim that the fuss all kicked off around 9.30 to 9.40 at which time the table had cleared leaving only Dianne Webster.
Was he at table or what ?

Ah, but that is the independent witnesses.
Independent witnesses are "Incredibly unreliable"
The only thing that matters is the statements of the Tapas group, even if they contradict each other they are "incredibly reliable".
Which is why everything is in neat 5 minute blocks.

(By the way which of Kate's statements that the curtains were wide open, or tight closed is "incredibly unreliable" ? )
Yes it appears to be Benny Hillish alright.

The sticking point for all this though is MO's 9.30pm check at 5a , wherein if JT was right about the bundleman being the potentail abductor as she thought at the time -  the shutters and windows should have been open on MO's 9.25- 9.30 check. Despite not seeing Madeleine in her bed he should have seen the shutters up and the sliding window open. Perhaps even a draught may have slammed the door shut?

If you ditch JT's sighting ( as DI Redwood has ) you can get round that particular contradiction and start your clock post 9.30. The problem with that is JT's return visit ( or first visit ? ) back to her own apartment this was at 9.40pm when she replaced ROB. Possibly JT should have seen the shutter up then? Or maybe not.






The only way theoretically to avoid seeing the shutter up is to go to your own apartments via your own (left open )sliding door.
It saves the walking round to the wooden door at the car park side of the apartments.

It would be very interesting if DI Redwood revealed what the proclaimed Tannerman saw himself?

He should have seen a woman in a cardigan and two men chatting on the street further down the hill. If he has questioned his revelation man
he should know the answer to that question.

I wonder whether the questionwas asked? If so I'd love to know the answer.

Opinion though.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 08.10.14 22:58

@viaveritasvita wrote:
Don't you mean Jane ?

Probably.  In this case certainly probably.
But it hardly matters.  
So many of the Tapas group have told so many untruths, that changing a name is almost inconsequential.
The facts remain the same.
The Fact that the tapas group cannot bring themselves to state the facts remains the same.
The fact that when they are asked to do so, they change from articulate educated professionals into gibbering idiots, who lose the power of speech in their mother tongue

Lunchtime on 3/5/7 was overcast, cold and windy.  (See Last Photo ! )  The "Last Photo" was obviously taken on Sunday 29th,  the first day of the holiday.
Evening on Thursday 3rd May 2007 was clear, cold, and calm  (see Tapas group statements, photos, weather reports.)
There were no gusts of wind to "whoosh" curtains and slam doors.  The weather reports and eye witnesses prove this
A gust of wind through a 45cm x 100cm window sufficient to "whoosh" a full length curtain trapped behind a bed and a chair . . .
Would have been noticed by the Tapas group sitting in front on 40 square metres of plastic sheeting

Or have it got that wrong ?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by aiyoyo on 08.10.14 23:13

@Naz_Nomad wrote:Are there any computer geniuses (genii?) who can put these timings into a computer animation?

The Metropolitan Police have HOLMES II software to do that ?
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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Okeydokey on 09.10.14 1:13

Peter Mac -

Isn't the McCann claim that an abductor could have been inside the apartment before GMcC arrived and hid while GMcC was doing his visit?  

Not saying I think that's credible but it makes that timeframe irrelevant to the "entry" time.

Clearly the McCanns have the problem as to what time the exit occurred. [Unless they stick to the literally incredible JT sighting.]

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BACK TO BASICS

Post by logical on 09.10.14 2:10

Excellent posts PeterMac big grin

Im still laughing over the Benny Hill Theme high5

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by tigger on 09.10.14 7:56

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Naz_Nomad wrote:Are there any computer geniuses (genii?) who can put these timings into a computer animation?

The Metropolitan Police have HOLMES II software to do that ?

Now you're giving me visions of 47 investigating officers rolling on the floor, laughing like mad.

@okeydokey

Gerry proposed an abductor behind the door when he'd stood looking at the sleeping children, having his proud father moment(over egging  the pudding as usual)  but, not being very observant, failed to note that said abductor would have been about  4" wide seen sideways.
(It is demonstrated  in the Portuguese documentary of the truth of the lie - so that might be why Kate said the documentary did even more harm than the book)

Such a severly anorexic abductor might have trouble  lifting anything much - so that would pretty well exclude those heavy shutters on the patio door, a child of four...

As to over-egging - here's a list of things that were dropped from the narrative:  

Maddie: 'I've had the best day ever, Mummy'.  She had also learned a little dance which she was going to show Mummy tomorrow.. A child not yet four with full temporal awareness, yeah right.

GM:'She was lying in the recovery position' - is that so? Perhaps not a good idea to broadcast that seeing as you were the last person to see her, allegedly. No wonder that was dropped.
This brilliant remark was commented on by the T7 as 'only a doctor would have said that'.  You don't say, not the likes of us then.
splat

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by palm tree on 09.10.14 9:53

This abductor hiding is ludicrous. No room behind the door, gm would've heard him opening and closing the wardrobe door, in the parents room, no because gm would've seen him in line of sight leaving the children's room coming at him to get to the parents room, bathroom, no because gm used the bathroom himself, living room and kitchen, no because GM would've seen him in those incidents too.
IMO

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