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Do they know the game's up ?

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Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 06.05.13 8:34


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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 8:56

A more likely reason in my view is that they did (for once) listen to criticism that their usual falling about laughing photos were creating a bad impression and they then went to the opposite extreme, even roping in their fun-loving pal Karen McCalman (in the red coat) to add to the charade.

I like the photo of Gerry (on his own, behind a microphone) clutching a fiver in his hand. Perhaps he was hoping that people would start giving him more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319228/Madeline-McCann-A-tearful-emotional-Gerry-Kate-mark-sixth-anniversary-daughters-disappearance.html
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by russiandoll on 06.05.13 9:33

NFWTD... you are sure that is a £5 note? I can't see it clearly, I thought it was a small prayer card, something to be read from.
I really have to say again that whatever the mix of emotions [ and I still maintain that grief is amongts the mix and is genuine, you cannot fake a face like that.] behind the face of Gerry McCann, it is demonstrating heartlessness to the point of cruelty to say that you take enjoyment from a photograph like that. We will rightly be labelled a hate forum if there is much more of this. I respect your right to free speech but I must use my own and disagree with you here.
That to me is the only time that I have seen such a look on the man's face.
They are not Fred and Rose West, these two, they covered up an accidental death and that is shameful.
But their child is dead and they loved her, I believe based on all that I have seen and read. The family photos and the way they speak about her shows that beyond doubt for me they loved her deeply.
They were weak human beings who chose self -preservation and the desire not to be parted from their remaining children over truth and respect for their child. No wonder they look like that if we are correct in our beliefs. They acted partly out of fear imo.

Jesus would have forgiven them, so have a heart, please. It is my opinion that we can all prioritise Maddie and have enough in us to spare a modicum of pity for her parents. Unless you believe the scenario which is as much without evidence as the abduction by a total stranger one, that Maddie was killed by one or both of her parents.

And remember, there is, however unlikely, a scenario where they are not involved but their tapas friends are.

I have said my tuppenceworth, no more from me on this. I strongly suggest for this forum's credibility that we don't descend to the abusive and nasty depths of parts of twitter. We should imo concentrate on the missing child and less on her parents.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by plebgate on 06.05.13 11:02

Unfortunately for them I believe that they will always be doubted and people will always wonder if they are acting or not in view of their actions in the past - perceived lack of emotions etc.

I do not believe this site could ever be thought of as a hate site and I do not believe that I have ever seen a hateful comment about them from any member on this site.

It does look as it could be that Mr. is holding a £5 note and if NFWTD thought it was then she was entitled to post what she did imo, the same as any of us are but i do not think the comment demonstrates heartlessness to the point of cruelty, I really do not.

I do not think it is a £5 note but maybe, as there appears to be pink envelopes in his hand and a small card, it might well be a fiver given as a donation to the fund?

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 11:37

@plebgate wrote:Unfortunately for them I believe that they will always be doubted and people will always wonder if they are acting or not in view of their actions in the past - perceived lack of emotions etc.

I do not believe this site could ever be thought of as a hate site and I do not believe that I have ever seen a hateful comment about them from any member on this site.

It does look as it could be that Mr. is holding a £5 note and if NFWTD thought it was then she was entitled to post what she did imo, the same as any of us are but i do not think the comment demonstrates heartlessness to the point of cruelty, I really do not.

I do not think it is a £5 note but maybe, as there appears to be pink envelopes in his hand and a small card, it might well be a fiver given as a donation to the fund?

I've not seen any hateful comments either, everybody is entitiled to their opinion might get shot down some times but that is what dicussions and debates are about.

The photo of them at the service is the one I would have expected when Madeleine seem to vanish into thin air, not the photo of them laughing and joking and all the photo's where they don't seem to have a care in the world.

Many people have lost loved one's and their grief is plain to see, everybody grieves in different ways. This is the first time I've seen any emotion of real grief in their face's.

At the service maybe they were grieving for what might have been if the hadn't left their three children alone in their holiday apartment while they were out enjoying themselves
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 11:54

I should have said it looks like a fiver in Gerry's hand, but possibly isn't; sorry, I jumped to an obvious conclusion about Gerry and money!

I certainly am not a heartless person - sometimes I'm far too tender-hearted for my own good - and I don't hate the McCanns personally, only their behaviour.

I don't know what happened to Madeleine but I'm 100% sure that the McCanns do.
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by suzyjohnson on 06.05.13 12:13

Russian Doll, I am very much in agreement with you that they did love their daughter Madeleine. If they have staged a cover up it will have been to keep the rest of their family together, to protect their reputations as doctors, to avoid charges of neglect for leaving the children alone.

You can tell that GM was concerned about this from the outset. He consulted lawyers who told him that their actions were well within the boundaries of responsible parenting. He said that dining at the Tapas was just like being in your own back garden, and IMO for the same reason he said in his first statement that he had gone into the apartment through the front door using his key, he didn't want the police to know the patio door was open.

Of course, they could also have been concerned about neglect charges had Madeleine actually been abducted. If that were the case, then the Tapas 9 should drop their whole 'wonderful parents' act (for example, DP statement - the McCann children were all dressed in white like angels) and just the truth about exactly what happened (they should all have done this a long time ago) otherwise the police can't do their job.




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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 12:40

@suzyjohnson wrote:Russian Doll, I am very much in agreement with you that they did love their daughter Madeleine.

I wonder why the PJ asked Kate McCann this question:

41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Ayniia on 06.05.13 12:52

@admin wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Russian Doll, I am very much in agreement with you that they did love their daughter Madeleine.

I wonder why the PJ asked Kate McCann this question:

41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?

I don't think handling her to a family member for custody meant she didn't loved her.
When my little sister was a baby one night my grandma caught my mother trying to strangle her My mother was not the best of people but even with all her flaws I believe she loved us. I think it was hard for her after my sister was born 15 months after me, because they both had to stay in the hospital for some time and my sister was born with a lot of health issues plus my mother had no one from her side of the family close,just my dad's family so I think she was tired/sad/depressed. Fortunately nothing happened to my sister as grandma was able to prevent it.
IMO Kate did loved Madeleine but maybe she was having problems dealing with her personality...

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 12:57

I was about to say the same thing Ayniia.

Speaking generally, there must be occasions when a child is fostered or sent to live with relatives because the parents don't have the emotional resources to cope but it doesn't necessarily mean that the child is unloved.

I would love to know why though the question was asked of Kate in the first place.
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 13:16

I would love to know why though the question was asked of Kate in the first place.
Every time I see this question asked, I'm reminded of a very early statement by someone close to the family, probably even a family member. This statement has never been published and the witness did not want to be contacted about again. Sorry to be so vague, but that's how I remember it. And I don't have the feeling it was an internet myth. This is one of the things I would like to document [if only for myself] the moment my life gets into some quieter waters ...
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 06.05.13 14:49

I have no idea if Madeleine was loved.
I don't know if she was a damned nuisance, with her colic, her screaming (testified to by a close family member,) her wandering around the house during the night and so on.

What I find impossible to understand is how bereaved parents could smile, joke, muck about, play tennis, laugh, go jogging and all the rest within the first few days.

I was not particularly close to my young brother - 8 years and another brother between us - but when he died I lived on tea for a week, could hardly breathe for the pain across the front of my chest, did not sleep properly for a long time, and then went through it all again when I cleared the estate and dealt with probate.
Six years later, I could laugh and joke and muck about, but not the other way round.
I just do not understand their reaction,
Unless it is one of "We have got away with it - they have bought the story about the shutters / door / window/ abductor" in that first photo,
and "We haven't got long now. Even C-R dumped us in the High Court, the Press have stopped taking instruction from Clarrie, and are printing what they like . ." in the second.
I dont know. But I can't make sense of it.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Ayniia on 06.05.13 15:14

@PeterMac wrote:I have no idea if Madeleine was loved.
I don't know if she was a damned nuisance, with her colic, her screaming (testified to by a close family member,) her wandering around the house during the night and so on.

What I find impossible to understand is how bereaved parents could smile, joke, muck about, play tennis, laugh, go jogging and all the rest within the first few days.

I was not particularly close to my young brother - 8 years and another brother between us - but when he died I lived on tea for a week, could hardly breathe for the pain across the front of my chest, did not sleep properly for a long time, and then went through it all again when I cleared the estate and dealt with probate.
Six years later, I could laugh and joke and muck about, but not the other way round.
I just do not understand their reaction,
Unless it is one of "We have got away with it - they have bought the story about the shutters / door / window/ abductor" in that first photo,
and "We haven't got long now. Even C-R dumped us in the High Court, the Press have stopped taking instruction from Clarrie, and are printing what they like . ." in the second.
I dont know. But I can't make sense of it.

I'm sorry about your brother PeterMac.

About the Mcs I cannot understand how they ate/slept (more everything you mentioned).
When my dog went missing (I will sometime make a better post about it and I'm not in any way comparing my dog to a missing child) I didn't ate at all,I didn't slept. I could not bare eating thinking she was alone in the street probably starving. I must've eaten sometime while she was missing (which lasted only a week and fortunately she was found alive) but I remember for some 2/3 days I didn't. Nor slept until I could not keep my eyes open. Having that personal experience was what made me doubt the Mcs actions from day one.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 16:04

@Ayniia wrote: [...]

I'm sorry about your brother PeterMac.

About the Mcs I cannot understand how they ate/slept (more everything you mentioned).
When my dog went missing (I will sometime make a better post about it and I'm not in any way comparing my dog to a missing child) I didn't ate at all,I didn't slept. I could not bare eating thinking she was alone in the street probably starving. I must've eaten sometime while she was missing (which lasted only a week and fortunately she was found alive) but I remember for some 2/3 days I didn't. Nor slept until I could not keep my eyes open. Having that personal experience was what made me doubt the Mcs actions from day one.
***
And I guess that you were looking for her. Physically I mean.

I've had pets missing and searching till they were found [but 2; I still dream of them]. I've had my youngest brother missing [he was 4-5 at the time] and the whole family including us children, the police and the neighbours were out there till midnight [and we found him!]. I had my first husband and my father dying. The first years it felt like I would never be able to laugh or even smile anymore and if ever I did my face would crackle. But then you, Peter, members and I are not narcissists, I guess. Nor do we have wider agenda's when things go wrong. Nor do we try to crush, hurt, kill people who we think betray us, lie about us, hurt us. We break the relation and ignore them.
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by maebee on 06.05.13 22:47

Petermac
What I find impossible to understand is how bereaved parents could smile, joke, muck about, play tennis, laugh, go jogging and all the rest within the first few days.

+ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VlS-gO5Ask a few days later.

As you said PM, their behaviour in the days following the "abduction" of their daughter is impossible to understand. I believed their story right up to the moment I saw them jogging when I had a WTF moment and thought/knew something was wrong. Within a week of the disappearance of his 3 year old daughter, Gerry McCann was posting about his jogging times. Unfrigginbelievable.
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 06.05.13 23:08

@maebee wrote:As you said PM, their behaviour in the days following the "abduction" of their daughter is impossible to understand. I believed their story right up to the moment I saw them jogging when I had a WTF moment and thought/knew something was wrong. Within a week of the disappearance of his 3 year old daughter, Gerry McCann was posting about his jogging times. Unfrigginbelievable.
As you say. un-believable.
IF they knew she was dead, then the process of grieving takes whatever time it takes with each individual.
But 8 DAYS !
No.

But more than this, they are NOT grieving, they are celebrating . . the fact. .. a fact that they themselves state and continue to aver,(Nota Bene Carter-Ruck and all who support child neglect) KEVIN, cue

That Madeleine is in a Hellish Lair in the hands of a Predatory Paedophile
And look at their faces !
[img][/img]\I am sorry, but I just don't 'get it'.
Can you or your masters help to explain this, Kevin ?

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by russiandoll on 07.05.13 0:03

NFWTD : My comment on your saying you liked the photo was all that was directed to you, in case I did not make that clear, apologies.

I did not think your post was hateful nor do I think the forum does post hateful remarks. I am aware of some parts of the media not just rabid pro McCann forums describing us as running a vile hate campaign, I simply dont want to give them ammunition. Sorry if I caused offence to any members, it was not my intention.

Peter, I am sorry to hear about the grief you suffered. I have been bereaved and it is a physical pain, you do feel as if your chest is in a vice.
As for not getting it re- the McCanns, me neither. When I see the photos of broad smiles, the way they would look the day the heard Maddie had been found safe, I am equally perplexed. I can only think it was the relief after the initial rabbit in the headlights look of their first appearances.......how could you smile like that a week after the accidental death of your child? Most people would still be in a state of shock, regardless of any cover up put in place. It would still have been a totally unprepared- for event. They must have nerves of steel to have mustered that level of self control. So unlike most people, but then we already know that about them.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by listener on 07.05.13 0:27

@PeterMac wrote:
@maebee wrote:As you said PM, their behaviour in the days following the "abduction" of their daughter is impossible to understand. I believed their story right up to the moment I saw them jogging when I had a WTF moment and thought/knew something was wrong. Within a week of the disappearance of his 3 year old daughter, Gerry McCann was posting about his jogging times. Unfrigginbelievable.
As you say. un-believable.
IF they knew she was dead, then the process of grieving takes whatever time it takes with each individual.
But 8 DAYS !
No.

But more than this, they are NOT grieving, they are celebrating . . the fact. .. a fact that they themselves state and continue to aver,(Nota Bene Carter-Ruck and all who support child neglect) KEVIN, cue

That Madeleine is in a Hellish Lair in the hands of a Predatory Paedophile
And look at their faces !
[img][/img]\I am sorry, but I just don't 'get it'.
Can you or your masters help to explain this, Kevin ?

As the years pass, I find myself growing more confused as to why this pic never made the front pages - at the time of Madeleines 'disappearance'.
It is still viewable now (as seen above), so why has it not gone 'viral' as they now say in this new internet world?
Why has this whole sorry saga, of very obvious outside involvement, not gone viral ?
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Ribisl on 07.05.13 0:54

@PeterMac wrote:

Picture on the left: elated by the sudden fame and fortune

Picture on the right: reality hits; many careless slips from the past are catching up on them; the public opinion tires and slowly but surely turns against them; they are left alone with fear and uncertainty

The first picture is enough to convince me that Madeleine was never abducted by a paedophile gang.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by suzyjohnson on 07.05.13 2:01

In the first picture, it looks to me as though Kate is smiling despite the upset she is feeling. Gerry, though, looks a lot more relaxed. He certainly doesn't give the impression here that he is worried about anything at all. In fact I would say he appears relieved (probably that people are accepting his version of events) Gerry, remember, doesn't appear to have ever spent an awful lot of time with his children (I think he doesn't like the restrictions of being a parent) for this reason I think he is distanced from grieving, probably he doesn't really remember Madeleine in the same way that Kate does.

In picture two, Gerry looks like a man who has lost, or is about to lose, everything. Kate seems to have changed quite a lot over the last few months, she seems more independent of Gerry, I wonder if she stands up to him more than she used to?

I am very uncomfortable though with the idea that parents of missing or bereaved children shouldn't be smiling. Irrespective of what's going on with GM and KM, I wish more of them were able to overcome the terrible thing which has happened to them. It must be awful for the parents of a missing child to feel guilty about ever being happy again, of course they should be encouraged to rebuild their lives.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tigger on 07.05.13 6:48

@suzyjohnson wrote:In the first picture, it looks to me as though Kate is smiling despite the upset she is feeling. Gerry, though, looks a lot more relaxed. He certainly doesn't give the impression here that he is worried about anything at all. In fact I would say he appears relieved (probably that people are accepting his version of events) Gerry, remember, doesn't appear to have ever spent an awful lot of time with his children (I think he doesn't like the restrictions of being a parent) for this reason I think he is distanced from grieving, probably he doesn't really remember Madeleine in the same way that Kate does.

In picture two, Gerry looks like a man who has lost, or is about to lose, everything. Kate seems to have changed quite a lot over the last few months, she seems more independent of Gerry, I wonder if she stands up to him more than she used to?

I am very uncomfortable though with the idea that parents of missing or bereaved children shouldn't be smiling. Irrespective of what's going on with GM and KM, I wish more of them were able to overcome the terrible thing which has happened to them. It must be awful for the parents of a missing child to feel guilty about ever being happy again, of course they should be encouraged to rebuild their lives.

Neither does Kate seem to relish - the diary is rather revealing on this point - much time with the children:

From the book: 7th May - Four days after Maddie disappears

Monday 7:..... When lunchtime came, Gerry and I were in the middle of another meeting... we had to go to the Toddler Club ourselves... unquote

Agree on the facial expressions - Gerry is riding high, his gamble has come off much better than he'd hoped. Kate I'm not so sure, she was being 'managed' by Gerry around that time imo. The clip where he refuses to answer whether he knew Murat and literally drags Kate away just a few days later is quite revealing.




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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Lostfridge on 07.05.13 11:09

@russiandoll wrote:NFWTD... you are sure that is a £5 note? I can't see it clearly, I thought it was a small prayer card, something to be read from.
I really have to say again that whatever the mix of emotions [ and I still maintain that grief is amongts the mix and is genuine, you cannot fake a face like that.] behind the face of Gerry McCann, it is demonstrating heartlessness to the point of cruelty to say that you take enjoyment from a photograph like that. We will rightly be labelled a hate forum if there is much more of this. I respect your right to free speech but I must use my own and disagree with you here.
That to me is the only time that I have seen such a look on the man's face.
They are not Fred and Rose West, these two, they covered up an accidental death and that is shameful.
But their child is dead and they loved her, I believe based on all that I have seen and read. The family photos and the way they speak about her shows that beyond doubt for me they loved her deeply.
They were weak human beings who chose self -preservation and the desire not to be parted from their remaining children over truth and respect for their child. No wonder they look like that if we are correct in our beliefs. They acted partly out of fear imo.

Jesus would have forgiven them, so have a heart, please. It is my opinion that we can all prioritise Maddie and have enough in us to spare a modicum of pity for her parents. Unless you believe the scenario which is as much without evidence as the abduction by a total stranger one, that Maddie was killed by one or both of her parents.

And remember, there is, however unlikely, a scenario where they are not involved but their tapas friends are.

I have said my tuppenceworth, no more from me on this. I strongly suggest for this forum's credibility that we don't descend to the abusive and nasty depths of parts of twitter. We should imo concentrate on the missing child and less on her parents.

Fantastic post Russiandoll, . excellent. Would you mind if I posted a link to it ?.I hate the small minority of so called pro-truth on twitter who stoop to the same awful levels as the worst of the pro-mccann people, it gives most forums they visit a really bad name as nothing but a hate site.
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 07.05.13 11:19

@russiandoll wrote:NFWTD : My comment on your saying you liked the photo was all that was directed to you, in case I did not make that clear, apologies.

I did not think your post was hateful nor do I think the forum does post hateful remarks. I am aware of some parts of the media not just rabid pro McCann forums describing us as running a vile hate campaign, I simply dont want to give them ammunition. Sorry if I caused offence to any members, it was not my intention.

Just to state that Russian Doll made another posting to clarify the earlier one.
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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tigger on 07.05.13 11:27

@Lostfridge wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:NFWTD... you are sure that is a £5 note? I can't see it clearly, I thought it was a small prayer card, something to be read from.
I really have to say again that whatever the mix of emotions [ and I still maintain that grief is amongts the mix and is genuine, you cannot fake a face like that.] behind the face of Gerry McCann, it is demonstrating heartlessness to the point of cruelty to say that you take enjoyment from a photograph like that. We will rightly be labelled a hate forum if there is much more of this. I respect your right to free speech but I must use my own and disagree with you here.
That to me is the only time that I have seen such a look on the man's face.
They are not Fred and Rose West, these two, they covered up an accidental death and that is shameful.
But their child is dead and they loved her, I believe based on all that I have seen and read. The family photos and the way they speak about her shows that beyond doubt for me they loved her deeply.
They were weak human beings who chose self -preservation and the desire not to be parted from their remaining children over truth and respect for their child. No wonder they look like that if we are correct in our beliefs. They acted partly out of fear imo.

Jesus would have forgiven them, so have a heart, please. It is my opinion that we can all prioritise Maddie and have enough in us to spare a modicum of pity for her parents. Unless you believe the scenario which is as much without evidence as the abduction by a total stranger one, that Maddie was killed by one or both of her parents.

And remember, there is, however unlikely, a scenario where they are not involved but their tapas friends are.

I have said my tuppenceworth, no more from me on this. I strongly suggest for this forum's credibility that we don't descend to the abusive and nasty depths of parts of twitter. We should imo concentrate on the missing child and less on her parents.

Fantastic post Russiandoll, . excellent. Would you mind if I posted a link to it ?.I hate the small minority of so called pro-truth on twitter who stoop to the same awful levels as the worst of the pro-mccann people, it gives most forums they visit a really bad name as nothing but a hate site.

I've already said I take no pleasure in their distress. But there is no firm evidence that they are guilty of hiding her body after a fatal accident. I also don't find firm evidence that they loved Maddie so much. They strike me as people who have next to no rapport with children or animals.
The events just after the 3rd, the many lawyers, PR etc. right at the start and the deliberate misinformation about the Charity Commission not allowing them to search for just one child (the CC published their denial of this report) - the many manipulated photographs some of which were released on the night of the 3rd, the fact that the only days in the week they spent with the twins was the only day there was no creche in the months following 3/5.
The deliberate misinformation just after the event, e.g. that they were left alone to cope whilst they had massive help and support. None of that makes me feel sympathy - I'm observing a tragedy not a farce.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by russiandoll on 07.05.13 14:05

There is no firm evdence that anyone in that group hid Maddie's body under any circumstances. The dogs' alerts were not corroborated. All so frustrating.

I guess there could be the scenario where they are more wicked than people want to believe and that the little one was deliberately sent on her way. That is horrific to contemplate and I am glad that I have not seen any evidence for that, although at one stage I did speculate that the reason Maddie's death was hidden was because she had been treated for a grave illness with not yet approved or banned drugs out of desperation by her parents and they were terrified that this would be discovered.

There is so much speculation because of the lies, deceit and misinformation attached to this sad case. It is a tragedy.

Tigger, I can never make sense of the way they behaved in the immediate aftermath, unless it was relief that the story had been accepted, but they still would have been coping with the sudden and unexpected death of their child. Even if Maddie had been gravely ill, her death would not have been a relief to her parents.

The only sense I can make of it, and that is not much sense, is that someone in their party was aware of some scandalous goings on by some VIP in the area, and that person was protected because of a threat to expose if McCanns were not given reassurances. If that were the case I think it would have been buried at the time
But it still does not explain their faces as they left church a week after Maddie disappeared, or the beaming faces on the day out with the twins.

What did the Express call it.... a riddle? Not wrong there.

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