A Different Theory

by Fence Sitter 08.06.14 18:37

I know I am not going to be popular, however here it goes.

OK The MBM case has done my head in for just over 7 years. Infamous for sitting on the fence and slipping off either side for what ever reason. I have now come to the following conclusions.

1.       The Child walked and wandered out of an unlocked open apartment

2.       She met with an accident involving a car
3.       The Car was being driven without consent
4.       The occupants of the car picked the child up and unfortunately did whatever they had to do in the name of self preservation.
5.       I do not think the McCann’s harmed their daughter physically in any way.

6.       IMHO I think the Mcs and friends were not transparent with reference to their checking routine as I think they thought she would be found walking and wandering.
7.       IMHO I think they searched for her before raising the alarm to the PJ or anyone else
8.       IMHO I quite simply think the child met with an accident whilst walking and wandering from an unlocked apartment. Involving a Renault Scenic being driven at the time by any of the below circumstances.
a.       Without due care and attention
b.      Without permission
c.       Drunken Driving
d.      ~~Joy Riding~~
e.      ~~Stolen~~
9.       IMHO I Think the lie is the checking regime
10.   It is the only way I can logically link MBM to the Car and to where the dogs alerted to. Which I believe are
a.       Wheel Arch
b.      Wheel well
c.       Key Fob
d.      Boot
11.   I can’t come up with a logical explanation for what the dogs scented in apartment 5a. Maybe 5 (a) holds its very own secrets not forgetting the dogs could smell Cadaver 100 years old in a jam jar hidden on a beach
Am I on the side of the McCann’s no I am not? I am on the side of justice and trying to find out what happened in PDL . The children should never have been left alone in the first place without supervision and that goes for the whole of the group.
IMHO The time lines were invented once the penny dropped the child could not easily be found, the time lines were organised and the police then called
IMHO The possible fibs in relation to the reported timeline are the thing that joins the group together.
The Car is the thing that joins MBM and the occurrences in PDL together with her parents. Therefore the car and its previous occupants need a little bit more due care and attention paying to it.
So in short what happens if a child walks and wanders, meets up with an accident which happens to include a hire car. Which is later rented by the McCann’s.

by Tangled Web 08.06.14 18:47

Hi Fence Sitter and welcome,

Just wondering why you are able to accept that the cadaver odour in the boot of the car belonged to MM, but you don't appear to accept that the cadaver odour in the apartment belong to MM?

Thanks,

Tangled Web.

by Fence Sitter 08.06.14 18:55

Tangled Web wrote:Hi Fence Sitter and welcome,

Just wondering why you are able to accept that the cadaver odour in the boot of the car belonged to MM, but you don't appear to accept that the cadaver odour in the apartment belong to MM?

Thanks,

Tangled Web.

I find it difficult but having but having watched eddie and keela train on a beach with a cadaver smell over 100 years old. I dont disbelieve them I simply think the smell may be older. I am not pretending my theory is right as it has its weak points it also has some strong points

by Justformaddie 08.06.14 19:01

I thought the people who hired the scenic before the mcs had already been checked out, maybe I'm wrong though.

by Tangled Web 08.06.14 19:04

I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?

by SallyVern 08.06.14 19:04

Fence Sitter wrote:I know I am not going to be popular, however here it goes.

OK The MBM case has done my head in for just over 7 years. Infamous for sitting on the fence and slipping off either side for what ever reason. I have now come to the following conclusions.

1.       The Child walked and wandered out of an unlocked open apartment

2.       She met with an accident involving a car
3.       The Car was being driven without consent
4.       The occupants of the car picked the child up and unfortunately did whatever they had to do in the name of self preservation.
5.       I do not think the McCann’s harmed their daughter physically in any way.

6.       IMHO I think the Mcs and friends were not transparent with reference to their checking routine as I think they thought she would be found walking and wandering.
7.       IMHO I think they searched for her before raising the alarm to the PJ or anyone else
8.       IMHO I quite simply think the child met with an accident whilst walking and wandering from an unlocked apartment. Involving a Renault Scenic being driven at the time by any of the below circumstances.
a.       Without due care and attention
b.      Without permission
c.       Drunken Driving
d.      ~~Joy Riding~~
e.      ~~Stolen~~
9.       IMHO I Think the lie is the checking regime
10.   It is the only way I can logically link MBM to the Car and to where the dogs alerted to. Which I believe are
a.       Wheel Arch
b.      Wheel well
c.       Key Fob
d.      Boot
11.   I can’t come up with a logical explanation for what the dogs scented in apartment 5a. Maybe 5 (a) holds its very own secrets not forgetting the dogs could smell Cadaver 100 years old in a jam jar hidden on a beach
Am I on the side of the McCann’s no I am not? I am on the side of justice and trying to find out what happened in PDL . The children should never have been left alone in the first place without supervision and that goes for the whole of the group.
IMHO The time lines were invented once the penny dropped the child could not easily be found, the time lines were organised and the police then called
IMHO The possible fibs in relation to the reported timeline are the thing that joins the group together.
The Car is the thing that joins MBM and the occurrences in PDL together with her parents. Therefore the car and its previous occupants need a little bit more due care and attention paying to it.
So in short what happens if a child walks and wanders, meets up with an accident which happens to include a hire car. Which is later rented by the McCann’s.

So glad I'm not the only person to join recently :) I've been reading here for a while and notice that some members have already pointed out that maybe the McCann's were tipped off about the dogs being flown in. If so then I lean more to the possibility that items connected to the accidental death of Madeleine were transported in the hire car for disposal. I could be wrong but it seems the most plausible explanation to me.

by Justformaddie 08.06.14 19:12

Was it not k&g who asked for the dogs? Dogs don't lie, and I think it's impossible that k & her 6 corpses transfered to cc, kids clothes, behind sofa, in the wardrobe, garden, car and key fob. All IMO

by Seek truth 08.06.14 19:13

by notlongnow 08.06.14 19:14

There would be some damage to the car,they would be some noise from screeching car,why was km adamant she wouldn't have wondered off?

by SallyVern 08.06.14 19:24

Justformaddie wrote:Was it not k&g who asked for the dogs? Dogs don't lie, and I think it's impossible that k & her 6 corpses transfered to cc, kids clothes, behind sofa, in the wardrobe, garden, car and key fob. All IMO

I thought it was Mark Harrison who first suggested the dogs be flown in?

by SallyVern 08.06.14 19:28

Tangled Web wrote:I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?

I trust the dogs. I don't know Tangled Web - can they distinguish between new or old cadaver odour?

by Fence Sitter 08.06.14 19:31

SallyVern wrote:
Tangled Web wrote:I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?
I trust the dogs. I don't know Tangled Web - can they distinguish between new or old cadaver odour?

So do I and I think your question is very penitent.

by Tangled Web 08.06.14 19:40

Fence Sitter wrote:
SallyVern wrote:
Tangled Web wrote:I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?
I trust the dogs. I don't know Tangled Web - can they distinguish between new or old cadaver odour?
So do I and I think your question is very penitent.

I'd imagine there would be a lot of different factors involved affecting the smell and the length of time it would linger e.g. temperature, humidity, softness/hardness of the ground.

Either way, the dogs only alerted to all things McCann and they're the only ones with a missing child.

by SallyVern 08.06.14 19:46

Fence Sitter wrote:
SallyVern wrote:
Tangled Web wrote:I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?
I trust the dogs. I don't know Tangled Web - can they distinguish between new or old cadaver odour?
So do I and I think your question is very penitent.

I'm embarrassed to say I had to look up the word penitent. According to the online dictionary it means "Feeling or expressing remorse for one's misdeeds or sins" Not sure why you would use that word.
Edited to correct spelling mistake from penitnet to penitent

by SallyVern 08.06.14 19:51

Tangled Web wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:
SallyVern wrote:
Tangled Web wrote:I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?
I trust the dogs. I don't know Tangled Web - can they distinguish between new or old cadaver odour?
So do I and I think your question is very penitent.

I'd imagine there would be a lot of different factors involved affecting the smell and the length of time it would linger e.g. temperature, humidity, softness/hardness of the ground.

Either way, the dogs only alerted to all things McCann and they're the only ones with a missing child.

That is one thing that struck me too, the fact that the dogs only alerted to all things McCann. Doesn't take half a brain to work out that if that's the fact then Madeleine must have died in the apartment. But I'm not so sure her body was transported in the hire car. I still feel that items that had been in contact with Madeleine's body were transported (pink blanket? Tennis bag?) It's only my thoughts though.

by jay2001 08.06.14 19:59

I might be wrong but I'm certain that when the dogs alerted in apt 5a it was checked to find that no-one had previously died in that apt.

Someone on twitter today mentioned that Paul Gordon (?) bled in the apt, but I think he survived!

by ChippyM 08.06.14 20:02

what would the chances be of The McCanns hiring a car in a town and it just happened to be the one that secretly knocked their daughter down weeks earlier?

what are the chances of that car having traces of DNA from a defrosting body in it weeks after the event, extremely remote i would say.

by Fence Sitter 08.06.14 20:11

As I said it was just an alternative Scenario/theory I hadn't seen mention before that's all. Thanks for your time in responding

by SallyVern 08.06.14 20:26

jay2001 wrote:I might be wrong but I'm certain that when the dogs alerted in apt 5a it was checked to find that no-one had previously died in that apt.

Someone on twitter today mentioned that Paul Gordon (?) bled in the apt, but I think he survived!

Apparently from shaving and apparently bled for 45mins
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If true then that may explain the blood dog but certainly doesn't explain the cadaver dog indicating.

by notlongnow 08.06.14 20:35

Shaving behind a sofa?

by frost 08.06.14 20:44

If the Scenic had been in any kind of accident this would have been picked up when the car was examined .

by ultimaThule 08.06.14 20:49

SallyVern wrote:
Tangled Web wrote:I think we either trust the dogs or we don't. They also alerted to clothing of KM & children's clothing. Surely this can't be old cadaver odour?
I trust the dogs. I don't know Tangled Web - can they distinguish between new or old cadaver odour?

The olfactory senses of canines are far more complex than those of humans and, if they could talk, I have no doubt EVRD dogs could tell their handers whether the odours they detect are of aged or relatively recent cadaverine or bloodspill.

The indisputable fact is that the late Eddie (RIP) alerted to cadaverine in 2 locations inside 5A and, as there is no record of any previous inhabitant or visitor having died in the apartment, it can only be concluded that a dead body was present at some time during the period the McCanns were in residence.

As the McCanns were a family of 5 who became a family of 4 on the night of 3 May 2007, it is reasonable to suppose the odour of cadaverine detected in 5A was emitted by their eldest daughter after her death.

by sami 08.06.14 20:52

notlongnow wrote:Shaving behind a sofa?

Yes, then he climbed into the wardrobe, locked himself in a non existant bag. He died in the bag, but Kate whilst packing for her trip to Huelva did not see him and put her clothing and cuddle cat inside the bag, delighted to see a very fine bag had been left behind by a previous occupant.

Then Gerry got sick (well that's what they told the press) so Heulva trip was delayed. She unpacked her clothes and bag but sadly by that point her clothes and cuddle cat were contaminated, as was the boot.

They travelled the next day, at which time they realised there was a body in the non existent bag. In shock, they dumped the bag in Huelva. So now they have no bag. Fearful they would be arrested if the bag was found their spokesman denied it ever existed.

The rest as they is history, IMO.

by notlongnow 08.06.14 20:56

sami wrote:
notlongnow wrote:Shaving behind a sofa?

Yes, then he climbed into the wardrobe, locked himself in a non existant bag. He died in the bag, but Kate whilst packing for her trip to Huelva did not see him and put her clothing and cuddle cat inside the bag, delighted to see a very fine bag had been left behind by a previous occupant.

Yes that is believable,not buying the shaving behind the sofa though. smilie

by DurhamGuy1967 08.06.14 21:23

SallyVern wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:I know I am not going to be popular, however here it goes.

OK The MBM case has done my head in for just over 7 years. Infamous for sitting on the fence and slipping off either side for what ever reason. I have now come to the following conclusions.

1.       The Child walked and wandered out of an unlocked open apartment

2.       She met with an accident involving a car
3.       The Car was being driven without consent
4.       The occupants of the car picked the child up and unfortunately did whatever they had to do in the name of self preservation.
5.       I do not think the McCann’s harmed their daughter physically in any way.

6.       IMHO I think the Mcs and friends were not transparent with reference to their checking routine as I think they thought she would be found walking and wandering.
7.       IMHO I think they searched for her before raising the alarm to the PJ or anyone else
8.       IMHO I quite simply think the child met with an accident whilst walking and wandering from an unlocked apartment. Involving a Renault Scenic being driven at the time by any of the below circumstances.
a.       Without due care and attention
b.      Without permission
c.       Drunken Driving
d.      ~~Joy Riding~~
e.      ~~Stolen~~
9.       IMHO I Think the lie is the checking regime
10.   It is the only way I can logically link MBM to the Car and to where the dogs alerted to. Which I believe are
a.       Wheel Arch
b.      Wheel well
c.       Key Fob
d.      Boot
11.   I can’t come up with a logical explanation for what the dogs scented in apartment 5a. Maybe 5 (a) holds its very own secrets not forgetting the dogs could smell Cadaver 100 years old in a jam jar hidden on a beach
Am I on the side of the McCann’s no I am not? I am on the side of justice and trying to find out what happened in PDL . The children should never have been left alone in the first place without supervision and that goes for the whole of the group.
IMHO The time lines were invented once the penny dropped the child could not easily be found, the time lines were organised and the police then called
IMHO The possible fibs in relation to the reported timeline are the thing that joins the group together.
The Car is the thing that joins MBM and the occurrences in PDL together with her parents. Therefore the car and its previous occupants need a little bit more due care and attention paying to it.
So in short what happens if a child walks and wanders, meets up with an accident which happens to include a hire car. Which is later rented by the McCann’s.
So glad I'm not the only person to join recently :) I've been reading here for a while and notice that some members have already pointed out that maybe the McCann's were tipped off about the dogs being flown in. If so then I lean more to the possibility that items connected to the accidental death of Madeleine were transported in the hire car for disposal. I could be wrong but it seems the most plausible explanation to me.

Gerry drove past 5a in the scenic the day the dogs and Police were there 31 st July. I've definitely seen this as a fact somewhere.. Then the trip to Huelva gets delayed!

[color:e9cb=000000]30 July 2007	[color:e9cb=000000]Specialist sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela, arrive with their handler, Martin Grime.
[color:e9cb=000000]31 July 2007	In the evening, Portuguese and UK investigators begin their search of apartment 5A with Eddie and Keela. Cadaver odour is indicated in the McCanns bedroom by the wardrobe, in the living room behind a sofa and a light scent indicated outside in a flowerbed. A blood indication is made behind the sofa.
[color:e9cb=000000]01 August 2007	[color:e9cb=000000]Jon Corner arrives to film promotional material for the official 'Find Madeleine' site. Kate's parents also arrive.
[color:e9cb=000000]02 August 2007	Gerry McCann cancels trip to Huelva due to 'viral illness'. Around 18:00pm, the Inspectors knock on the door of the McCanns villa. Jon Corner states in the Panorama documentary that the McCanns were forewarned of this forensic visit and that there were clothes in the washing machine when the Inspectors arrived. Cadaver odour is indicated on two pieces of Kate's clothing (trousers and blouse), on a red T-shirt believed to belong to Madeleine and on the soft toy known as 'Cuddle Cat'.
[color:e9cb=000000]03 August 2007	[color:e9cb=000000]The Huelva trip goes ahead, despite all public places being closed.

The boot of the car was often open and there are rumours that it was because of a smell and the carpets had been removed and washed. What time period was this boot open period? I can't find the reference again.

by Justformaddie 08.06.14 21:27

And sometime between that they lost their 3y old child...... Blimey, what a holiday! IMO

by Praia 08.06.14 21:58

1. How did she get out of the apartment?

2. Do you really think no one would have heard this fatal crash?

by ultimaThule 08.06.14 22:24

As Kate is adamant that Madeleine did not exit via the patio door, closing it and the curtain behind her, and then opening and closing the child gate to the steps down to the gate which leads onto the street which was also closed when Kate returned to do her check on the children, it would seem that Madeleine must have opened the curtains and window in the bedroom, raised the shutters, and climbed out, Praia.

According to Fence Sitter's theory, she then met her death by being struck by the wheel arch of the Renault Scenic which was subsequently rented by her parents at a later date.

The sky is clear and the moon is high tonight so it should be easy to spot any herds of flying pigs migrating to Portugal. yes

by fossey 08.06.14 22:33

So the same car that was hired by the Mccanns 25 days AFTER she 'vanished' was the same car that accidentally knocked her over and killed her on the 3rd of May??

Now that's an extraordinary coincidence.

That did not happen. Sorry.

by XTC 08.06.14 22:34

Praia wrote:1. How did she get out of the apartment?

2. Do you really think no one would have heard this fatal crash?

That's quite an interesting theory.

Not saying it's fireproof but say in the Tapas 9 search for Madeleine that the poor girl was found having been run over but the
person(s) did not stop ( Drinking and driving) as a result of Madeleine getting out of 5a?

Reason for the coverup possibly? But you have to figure out how Madeleine got out of 5a if the patio doors were shut( possibly locked to stop burgalars getting in) and how she negotiated the baby gate if that was shut/locked also?

I'm afraid the Scenic scenario is a non starter for me. Like my car at the moment.

The only scenario for an abduction and/or accident is if they were not checking at all between 8.30pm and 10.00pm ( or 10.30 ?)
and the patio door was known to be unlocked. The only people in the group who may have known that was the group themselves.

Opinion only though.