Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Newstalk
16:33 Tuesday 3 June 2014      
Officers searching an area of scrubland in Praia da Luz, where Madeleine McCann disappeared in 2007, have begun digging.

It comes after British police brought in sniffer dogs on Tuesday to help search the area which is located a five-minute walk from the holiday apartment where she disappeared.

The victim detection dogs, Tito and Muzzy, took part in the 2012 search for murdered schoolgirl April Jones.

At least 30 officers arrived early on Tuesday morning for the second day of the search. Sources understand a team of specialist forensic archaeologists are also working on the site.

They used blue and white police tape to divide the land into sectors for the search. Two sniffer dogs and their handlers joined police in scouring the large cordoned off area while two Portuguese police horses patrolled the perimeter.

Three police tents set up on the site are thought to be where the teams are storing kit and taking drinks breaks rather than covering any significant parts of the site.

The teams spent Monday securing and surveying the site and will soon bring in ground-penetrating radar equipment to try to spot any unusual patterns in the terrain.

Radar expert Rom Gostomski, from London-based firm Sandberg, said "The radar uses electro-magnetic waves that are fired into the sub-surface at a pretty rapid rate and we measure what comes back from those signals".

The hot and predominantly dry climate on the Algarve, where temperatures regularly top 30 degrees Celsius, mean the ground will be far drier than in northern Europe.

"GPR works best in dry conditions - it doesn't like wet, saturated ground because of the high dissolved mineral content" Mr. Gostomski explained.

"In a dry country like Portugal you'll generally get much, much better data and penetrate much deeper".



The 'Find Madeleine' campaign continues on social media

There are different types of radar equipment the police could use, but generally the devices allow officers to monitor the ground at least two metres below the surface.

Mr. Gostomski added "If you have got a buried object that is sufficiently different, with different properties from the surrounding area, it will show up very, very clearly; whereas if you have got a gradual change it can be difficult to detect".

Scotland Yard say they will not provide a "running commentary" on the searches.

Former Scotland Yard detective John O'Connor told Newstalk Breakfast earlier he thinks at least two people were involved in Madeline's disappearance.

Sceptic wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

Sceptic wrote:

Shhh wrote:Also from twitter, shame it's from a "pro"


The police are digging in an area used by local residents as a pet cemetery. #mccann cerb32

ITV reporter has just reported this also and how it could effect what the investigators are doing - laughable

Why is it laughable?   Say you were someone that visited the town on a number of occasions over the years and you heard about locals burying/ or getting rid of pets in a certain area....(this may not necessarily be a 'nice' final resting place for pets but somewhere locals could dump pets no questions asked)   If you had something to dump you may just do it in this area that has already been prepared.

Its laughable the reporters respoonse/claim - cadaver dogs do not react to animal remains

aiyoyo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some good pics there.

stillsloppingout wrote:

roy rovers wrote:

sallypelt wrote:I don't know if there is any truth in this, but it's being tweeted and retweeted:

Justice_forum UK Justice Forum  

New car park behind the church in Praia da Luz which may be excavated as police renew search for Madeleine #McCann [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Worth a try - they found Richard III last time.

I bet if they went to Rothey now, there would be Richard III in Gerry's trousers   

juliet wrote:Like PeterMac, I thought there seemed to be some telling reactions from the police gathered round that pit. The woman seemed to be trying to get away and the men shocked.

nobodythereeither wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

Shhh wrote:Here's the coldwater post

"
Quote:
It wasn't a blanket. I understand it was on a large sheet of cold metal - forensic evidence was left behind.
"


From http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/coldwater.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=850&LastModified=4675673657248108147.htm

But Coldwater was a wind-up merchant, no?

It's premature to discount CW.  
Wait until the case is over  and you will have your answer.

If the PJ had had forensic evidence from a large sheet of cold metal at the time Coldwater made that post, they'd hardly have put the sheet of metal back in the scrubland, would they?

Coldwater was very  plausible in some ways but also came out with real rubbish (eg he claimed a SY detective he knew socially told him details of the case at a barbecue - yeh, as if).

Also, he was clearly not expecting the case to be shelved, at which point he disappeared never to be heard of again (not as Coldwater, anyway).

To say "Wait until the case is over and you will have your answer" is just silly, sorry. In my opinion, if one or two things Coldwater said turn out to be true, it is because they were lucky guesses, not because he had some inside information.

I'm assuming it's a he, could be a she of course .....

aiyoyo wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

Shhh wrote:Here's the coldwater post

"
Quote:
It wasn't a blanket. I understand it was on a large sheet of cold metal - forensic evidence was left behind.
"


From http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/coldwater.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=850&LastModified=4675673657248108147.htm

But Coldwater was a wind-up merchant, no?

It's premature to discount CW.  
Wait until the case is over  and you will have your answer.

If the PJ had had forensic evidence from a large sheet of cold metal at the time Coldwater made that post, they'd hardly have put the sheet of metal back in the scrubland, would they?

Coldwater was very  plausible in some ways but also came out with real rubbish (eg he claimed a SY detective he knew socially told him details of the case at a barbecue - yeh, as if).

Also, he was clearly not expecting the case to be shelved, at which point he disappeared never to be heard of again (not as Coldwater, anyway).

To say "Wait until the case is over and you will have your answer" is just silly, sorry. In my opinion, if one or two things Coldwater said turn out to be true, it is because they were lucky guesses, not because he had some inside information.

I'm assuming it's a he, could be a she of course .....

That's only your opinion, nothing else, not proof of anything.
His cover was blown when the data at 3A was hacked.  He was targeted by pro and got into a spot of bother.
What would you do in that situation ? Desist to protect your family (and source possibly) ? Or take further risk?

Hicks wrote:So SY believe that Madeleine died in Praia Da Luz, her body moved at a later date.
Mr Amaral put forward this exact theory (going by the evidence) in 2007.

If Mr Amaral's theory is proven correct I will look forward to reading all the grovelling apologies written by the British newspapers.

Shhh wrote:This lair thing.  If it has been hidden away, unsearched in scrubland would it be fair to assume if anything is found in it the perpretator/s were only made aware of such a hides hole through someone with local knowledge?

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

nobodythereeither wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:

Shhh wrote:Here's the coldwater post

"
Quote:
It wasn't a blanket. I understand it was on a large sheet of cold metal - forensic evidence was left behind.
"


From http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/coldwater.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=850&LastModified=4675673657248108147.htm

But Coldwater was a wind-up merchant, no?

It's premature to discount CW.  
Wait until the case is over  and you will have your answer.

If the PJ had had forensic evidence from a large sheet of cold metal at the time Coldwater made that post, they'd hardly have put the sheet of metal back in the scrubland, would they?

Coldwater was very  plausible in some ways but also came out with real rubbish (eg he claimed a SY detective he knew socially told him details of the case at a barbecue - yeh, as if).

Also, he was clearly not expecting the case to be shelved, at which point he disappeared never to be heard of again (not as Coldwater, anyway).

To say "Wait until the case is over and you will have your answer" is just silly, sorry. In my opinion, if one or two things Coldwater said turn out to be true, it is because they were lucky guesses, not because he had some inside information.

I'm assuming it's a he, could be a she of course .....

That's only your opinion, nothing else, not proof of anything.
His cover was blown when the data at 3A was hacked.  He was targeted by pro and got into a spot of bother.
What would you do in that situation ? Desist to protect your family (and source possibly) ? Or take further risk?

Of course it's only my opinion, as is much of what I post here.

So you think it's completely possible that a British detective kept Coldwater updated on this case over a few chicken wings on a barbecue do you?

And that Coldwater then passed on all this information on a public forum?

Pigs might fly       

In my opinion       

He was a wind up merchant. In my opinion.

CynicAl wrote:I'll chip in my dose of optimism again, for what it's worth...


No... Something changed. And someone wanted this playing out VERY publicly. They wanted the debates. They wanted cameras once again to focus on two old sniffer dogs, and a harassed and beleaguered Portuguese detective. If those effecting a 'cover up' didn't care about the testimony of two sniffer dogs and a relentless Portuguese Inspector Clouseau before, there is absolutely no more reason to pay them any heed five years later, let alone seven...

Unless something changed. And those involved wanted the public to see that something had changed. And a public that has its attention aroused again, only to be told the same lines again, is not a happy public at all. In fact, it is a public which is already proving that it is turning to websites faster than it is dipping its fingers in its wallets in order to buy another newspaper. This story is not selling papers. And that's why this story is repeatedly portrayed as a secondary headline. This isn't about selling papers. This is about something else. Something that has changed.

In my opinion, of course.

Châtelaine wrote:

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Is it just me or is the body language interesting.

Man on right bringing back of hand up to his face to stop himself gagging.
Next man in standing to attention
Girl behind him turning away and pushing past behind him at speed
There is a rubber bucket with lid in the ground behind them, I think

It could of course, like many old spaces, be full of ordure and detritus and dead dogs.  The unreliable ones

aiyoyo wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Is it just me or is the body language interesting.

Man on right bringing back of hand up to his face to stop himself gagging.
Next man in standing to attention
Girl behind him turning away and pushing past behind him at speed
There is a rubber bucket with lid in the ground behind them, I think

It could of course, like many old spaces, be full of ordure and detritus and dead dogs.  The unreliable ones

***
I agree. Peter. The body language is interesting and there's a lot of drama in these scene. I don't think seasoned coppers would turn away from a dead dog.And the woman IMO is seeking some brief comfort from a shoulder, rather then speeding away.

There may a video of this, I only have seen the photo.

Châtelaine wrote:But incidentally this stenching "box" was found under a metal plate ...

Shhh wrote:Also from twitter, shame it's from a "pro"


The police are digging in an area used by local residents as a pet cemetery. #mccann cerb32

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

Shhh wrote:This lair thing.  If it has been hidden away, unsearched in scrubland would it be fair to assume if anything is found in it the perpretator/s were only made aware of such a hides hole through someone with local knowledge?

Yeah, good point. Anybody in mind?

annemab wrote:But if there was anything significant in that hole, or even if they thought there might be, would a tent not have gone up over it by now?

1soapy wrote:Re: Coldwater.

Nobodythereither wrote:

Pigs might fly   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Aiyoyo wrote:


Not necessarily, don’t discount yet.
 
MET officer socially told details of the case.


So:
·         Might not be in OG.
·         Might give very general details.
·         Might be lying.
·         Might only be sworn to secrecy on certain matters.
·         Might know nothing or just share inside rumours or fobbing off.


I think you are basing your views, nothingthereither, (which you have rightly recognized as just opinions based without fact or evidence) on very flimsy or nor well thought through stuff. Several posters here do this (and look silly afterwards if wrong) and thankfully, many don’t.


Aiyoyo's response was very logical, wasn't it?


I’ll always stand to be corrected, sorry if I've misunderstood or missed anything and never wish to offend anyone btw.

"very flimsy or nor well thought through stuff".

I don't think you can have read them, as you say Coldwater's so-called detective source "might not be in OG."

Well of course he wasn't, we are talking years before OG even existed  

Oh and by the way, my forum name is not nothingthereeither, so it might be good to get basic things correct before criticising others .....

annemab wrote:But if there was anything significant in that hole, or even if they thought there might be, would a tent not have gone up over it by now?