Re: Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

by Shhh 03.06.14 20:56

roy rovers wrote:
annemab wrote:But if there was anything significant in that hole, or even if they thought there might be, would a tent not have gone up over it by now?
If the remains of MM were in that hole they'd have stopped digging elsewhere (unless they're looking for multiple MMs).So safe to say they were having a laugh in that picture. I bet they're enjoying the weather too - looks glorious.

I'm inclined to agree. A video would be much more telling than a picture

by aiyoyo 03.06.14 21:00

annemab wrote:But if there was anything significant in that hole, or even if they thought there might be, would a tent not have gone up over it by now?

Tent is useful to shield body from press cameras but 7-year old beyond recognition remains won't be needing a tent.

The tents they'd in place is shelter/rest and refreshment place for crews and possibly also shelter for equipment (eg. PC, 3G phone etc) from heat of sun.

by Markus 2 03.06.14 21:02

[color:e98c=000000][color:e98c=000000][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]A GROUP of rich and powerful men in Portugal have been jailed for their involvement in a paedophile ring which some believe is linked to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

[size=18]A former ambassador, a television presenter, a doctor and a lawyer were found guilty on Friday after an eight-year investigation and a six-year trial which shook the country, with 32 men giving evidence of hundreds of crimes committed against them when they were children.
[/size]

[color:e98c=000000]Members of the ring snatched children as they slept at the state-run Casa Pia orphanages in Lisbon and took them to grand houses to endure sickening abuse.

One of the abused boys, Pedro Namora, is now a lawyer and was a key witness in the case.

He wants Portuguese detectives to continue their probe as he believes the ring may be connected to the disappearance of Madeleine at the Praia da Luz resort on the Algarve in May 2007.

Speaking to the Sunday Express, Mr Namora said: "During the summer children were taken to the summer homes of paedophiles on the Algarve. It was highly organised and involved a lot of planning and control.

"It is possible that those connected with the ring who have not been caught may be involved in Madeleine's disappearance. I do think detectives should look at this possibility. No stone should be left unturned."

Although most of the abuse involved hundreds of boys, he said some girls also fell victim to the gang.

One man arrested in the case and later released without charge was said to have had a great interest in the ancient underground tunnels running under Praia da Luz.
THEY COULD FIND THINGS RELATED TO THIS ,BUT MADDIE ? SOMEONE TURNED IN EVIDENCE ON THIS MAYBE

by 1soapy 03.06.14 21:11

Nobodythereeither.

I had corrected and posted your details, but not before your copy/paste. Bit superficial tit for tat to raise though, with respect. Motive was I saw a response I thought sensible and answered reasonably.

Aiyoyo logical as in – site hacked, identity found, Pro’s attack and maybe didn’t want to continue for that reason.

Regarding the rest, my last line answers all of that.

Thank you

by rustyjames 03.06.14 21:14

An earlier article on tunnels and a mention of Smithman.

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by ChippyM 03.06.14 21:17

roy rovers wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:

Is it just me or is the body language interesting.

Man on right bringing back of hand up to his face to stop himself gagging.
Next man in standing to attention
Girl behind him turning away and pushing past behind him at speed
There is a rubber bucket with lid in the ground behind them, I think

It could of course, like many old spaces, be full of ordure and detritus and dead dogs. The unreliable ones
***
I agree. Peter. The body language is interesting and there's a lot of drama in these scene. I don't think seasoned coppers would turn away from a dead dog.And the woman IMO is seeking some brief comfort from a shoulder, rather then speeding away.

There may a video of this, I only have seen the photo.

Dead dog or dead person may not distinguishable just from first glance, but the stench would be enough to cause the body language.

Oh come on they could be saying anything or having a laugh.[/quote]

i think the woman is walking out of the frame it's just perspective that makes her appear close to her colleague. Maybe she is going to get something. I don't think she has been shocked by anything why would the woman officer be shocked but not the men?

by Guest 03.06.14 21:22

ChippyM wrote:
roy rovers wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:

Is it just me or is the body language interesting.

Man on right bringing back of hand up to his face to stop himself gagging.
Next man in standing to attention
Girl behind him turning away and pushing past behind him at speed
There is a rubber bucket with lid in the ground behind them, I think

It could of course, like many old spaces, be full of ordure and detritus and dead dogs. The unreliable ones
***
I agree. Peter. The body language is interesting and there's a lot of drama in these scene. I don't think seasoned coppers would turn away from a dead dog.And the woman IMO is seeking some brief comfort from a shoulder, rather then speeding away.

There may a video of this, I only have seen the photo.

Dead dog or dead person may not distinguishable just from first glance, but the stench would be enough to cause the body language.

Oh come on they could be saying anything or having a laugh.

i think the woman is walking out of the frame it's just perspective that makes her appear close to her colleague. Maybe she is going to get something. I don't think she has been shocked by anything why would the woman officer be shocked but not the men?[/quote]
***
You seriously messed up the quotes ... What you post I said, wasvsaid by PeterMac, what you quote Aiyoyo said, was a comment of mine, etc.
sad

Confusion is good ...

ETA AH!!! quotes are messing up themselves, like mine above ...

by Gillyspot 03.06.14 21:24

Here are links to AP & Getty images of the search in PDL.

AP [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Getty [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On these you can see quite a lot more of what has been happening

by canada12 03.06.14 21:25

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In an interview given to the Catholic newspaper The Tablet, published 16 June 2007, Gerry McCann told of an "extraordinary experience" inside the church in Praia da Luz just days after Madeleine's disappearance. The experience inspired him to launch the global campaign to find his daughter.

He said: "When I was praying I started thinking of all the things that were happening. There were lots and lots of ideas in my head and how we could make things better and I was really feeling very down and not sure which way to proceed. I had this mental image of being in a tunnel and instead of the light at the end of the tunnel being extremely narrow and a distant spot, the light opened up and the tunnel got wider and wider and went in many different directions. I talked to you (Kate) about it and said, 'I am not prepared to pursue one path. We are going to do everything in our power to influence things.'

"It was almost like something - I am not saying it was the Holy Spirit - came into me and gave me that image. That is when I really felt I had a clear path."

Was it a religious experience?

"I can't say it was a vision because I am not clear what a vision is but I had a mental image and it certainly helped me decide. I became a man possessed that night. The next day I was up at dawn, making phone calls."

by nobodythereeither 03.06.14 21:25

1soapy wrote:Nobodythereeither.

I had corrected and posted your details, but not before your copy/paste. Bit superficial tit for tat to raise though, with respect. Motive was I saw a response I thought sensible and answered reasonably.

Aiyoyo logical as in – site hacked, identity found, Pro’s attack and maybe didn’t want to continue for that reason.

Regarding the rest, my last line answers all of that.

Thank you

Another poster has also commented on Coldwater above.

Why don't you read their posts abour Coldwater too, and respond to them in the manner you have responded to me?

You are confusing several separate issues:

1. The veracity or otherwise of Coldwater's posts (which you have not yet said that you have actually read. Have you?) and Aiyoyo's suggestion that the conclusion of this case will show him to be right or wrong. It is that that I find illogical. I believe that Coldwater has already been shown to be wrong about many of the things he stated as fact, which was apparent as soon as the PJ files were made public, but because I don't have his posts to hand I can't be sure about that.

2. The likelihood of his/her having a British detective as a source who provided him/her with titbits about the case at social occasions.

3. The reason why Coldwater stopped posting his "inside information."

Which do you think is more likely:

a). Coldwater stopped posting because pros found out who he was and he was afraid for his family (or whatever) (Aiyoyo's given reason - which appears to be, er, purely his opinion).

b). The release of the PJ files into the public domain demonstrated that much of what Coldwater had previously posted (and which forum members lapped up) was fiction.

Or do you think it is complete coincidence that Coldwater stopped posting just at the point the case was shelved?

?

Anyway, I really don't want to continue this ridiculous conversation with you.

If you think Aiyoyo is completely logical and I'm completely illogical then fine. Think away.

ETA: And all the above is MY OPINION ONLY!!

by ChippyM 03.06.14 21:26

Châtelaine wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
roy rovers wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:

Is it just me or is the body language interesting.

Man on right bringing back of hand up to his face to stop himself gagging.
Next man in standing to attention
Girl behind him turning away and pushing past behind him at speed
There is a rubber bucket with lid in the ground behind them, I think

It could of course, like many old spaces, be full of ordure and detritus and dead dogs. The unreliable ones
***
I agree. Peter. The body language is interesting and there's a lot of drama in these scene. I don't think seasoned coppers would turn away from a dead dog.And the woman IMO is seeking some brief comfort from a shoulder, rather then speeding away.

There may a video of this, I only have seen the photo.

Dead dog or dead person may not distinguishable just from first glance, but the stench would be enough to cause the body language.

Oh come on they could be saying anything or having a laugh.

i think the woman is walking out of the frame it's just perspective that makes her appear close to her colleague. Maybe she is going to get something. I don't think she has been shocked by anything why would the woman officer be shocked but not the men?

***
You seriously messed up the quotes ... What you post I said, wasvsaid by PeterMac, what you quote Aiyoyo said, was a comment of mine, etc.
sad

Confusion is good ...
[/quote]

I didn't mean to mess anything up, just clicked quote, I was commenting with reference to the points everyone has made re. body language in the photo, no confusion intended.

by Markus 2 03.06.14 21:28

rustyjames wrote:An earlier article on tunnels and a mention of Smithman.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

We don't know if that corrugate goes on any further especially if the earth has not been dug either side ,might be part of a tunnel or just one off hole. They could find a lot related to this other scandal imo

The archaeologist involved with these tunnels was arrested as an abuser in the Casa Pia case but later released [this was a notorious child abuse scandal centring on orphanages in Lisbon].
“Does this not send alarm bells ringing? Something not right in Portugal. Why are the PJ not searching these tunnels and the church?”

They just might have opened up another can of worms .

I don't think this is related to Madeline not the usual victim, seems they are taken from homes.

by 1soapy 03.06.14 21:29

Hi nobodythereeither.

No offence meant/apologies. I am very ignorant on CW and do not know the detail to which he posted and am happy to accept that he/she was wrong on occasions and that this is justification/evidence of her/him not being all he/she claimed to be. Hope this is acceptable and we can move on and back on topic.

Thanks.

by TellTheTruth 03.06.14 21:29

Shhh wrote:Also from twitter, shame it's from a "pro"

The police are digging in an area used by local residents as a pet cemetery. #mccann cerb32

Sorry, still catching up so this has probably been brought but they were not local residents, so how on earth would they possibly know of this place?

They had only been in the area a matter of days. This gets more bizarre by the day. If they did have local knowledge then "How?" has got to be a question asked.

When I go on holiday I might find out where the best fish and chip shop might be but the local dead pet dump??? Why would any holiday maker need to know that?

I wonder if the TV is on at Rotheley Manor and they are keeping up to date with the latest developments, if they are tuned in to the internet, if they are off their food and wine...

I hope they are quaking in their running shoes.

Poor little Maddie and I feel so sorry for those poor twins. How can they ever have a normal childhood when the truth finally emerges. empathy

by Markus 2 03.06.14 21:32

Something not right in Portugal. Certainly not in that case ,just makes me wonder have we got it right.

by Guest 03.06.14 21:33

Hm ... I find quotes [not only mine] being messed up, although so far everything was working fine.
I'll pay more attention to "preview" before sending :-)

by ChippyM 03.06.14 21:37

Châtelaine wrote:Hm ... I find quotes [not only mine] being messed up, although so far everything was working fine.
I'll pay more attention to "preview" before sending :-)

I have always found the quotes function confusing when a few people are being quoted, I probably did mess it up but not due to any ulterior motive. smilie

by Guest 03.06.14 21:39

post wrote:

All you have to do is make sure you post after the quote brackets...and not in between them.

by CynicAl 03.06.14 21:50

SixMillionQuid wrote:
CynicAl wrote:
AndyB wrote:
CynicAl wrote:I'll chip in my dose of optimism again, for what it's worth...

There is a lot of speculation - understandable speculation - about a 'cover up'.

The problem is, that no one seems to understand the definition of a 'cover up.' Or its purpose.

A cover up is intended, principally, to hide the facts.

If the last seven years have seen any party make any effort at a 'cover up', then quite simply every single party that attempted a cover up has failed. If they hadn't failed, we wouldn't be discussing the glaringly obvious facts. No anomalies would be present, no evidence to contradict, no enigmas to promote legitimate speculation.
That all depends on what it is that being covered up. I happen to believe that the cover up is working extremely well and that the full truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann, and the circumstances surrounding her disappearance will never be known. I also believe that the only reason we are discussing any of this is that the Portuguese published all the case files, something that would be utterly unthinkable to our secretive rulers. Had the Portuguese not done so, I doubt that this forum would exist and none of the facts of which we are now aware would be known, let alone glaringly obvious. In other words, had the Portuguese not published their case files the cover-up would've worked from the start without the need for the Yard's current convoluted attempts to put the genie back in the bottle.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

But as to the original principle... if the cover-up wasn't broke, why risk everything to fix it?
As mentioned before the original investigation was archived pending further info. Fingers were still pointing therefore the issues remain unresolved that needed resolving - the cover up needed finalising.

The request for review goes back farther than 2010. I think it goes back to 2009 when Mr McCann sought cooperation with the PJ police. A bit of a strange move considering he was still under their radar. Then there was the previous Home Secretary Alan Johnson's scoping exercise for the review. I'm sure their lawyers would have warned them that a review could put them back in the frame, but they seem pretty confident about the outcome.

Yeh... But the point of a cover-up in this case would have been the cessation of formal investigation and the co-operative silence of all perpetrators, participants and witnesses and a 'fogging' of the unresolved scene with distractions and misinformation for the purpose of letting the dogs sleep, and letting the trail go cold amongst the only agencies which were of confidence. The resurrection of the case to a state of life is not the action of a high power with vested interest in letting the ball run dead, since the act of resurrection or revisiting is counter-productive to moving on. No agency with power and ought at stake would ever be allowed by its own counsel to fan the embers and squirt petrol around the place, and frankly if the cover-up was as high powered as it seems it would need to be, I'm quite sure GMC would have felt the sudden urge to commit suicide in his grief, if he ventured to step out of line and stick his head above the parapet. There are simpler ways to tie off dangerous loose ends for people so cold and objective as those who can put special interest before a child's life, right? Heck, even "Double Tragedy McCann's" would sell newspapers as a headline.

by kevmack 03.06.14 21:55

Markus 2 wrote:Something not right in Portugal. Certainly not in that case ,just makes me wonder have we got it right.

Please don't go down that rabbit hole again...

by CynicAl 03.06.14 22:02

PeterMac wrote:It looks like a lair to me.

And a hellish one at that.

by Markus 2 03.06.14 22:04

kevmack wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:Something not right in Portugal. Certainly not in that case ,just makes me wonder have we got it right.
Please don't go down that rabbit hole again...

No I won't, just like to look at it from every angle thinking

by Monty Heck 03.06.14 22:06

TellTheTruth wrote:
Shhh wrote:Also from twitter, shame it's from a "pro"

The police are digging in an area used by local residents as a pet cemetery. #mccann cerb32
Sorry, still catching up so this has probably been brought but they were not local residents, so how on earth would they possibly know of this place?

They had only been in the area a matter of days. This gets more bizarre by the day. If they did have local knowledge then "How?" has got to be a question asked.

When I go on holiday I might find out where the best fish and chip shop might be but the local dead pet dump??? Why would any holiday maker need to know that?

I wonder if the TV is on at Rotheley Manor and they are keeping up to date with the latest developments, if they are tuned in to the internet, if they are off their food and wine...

I hope they are quaking in their running shoes.

Poor little Maddie and I feel so sorry for those poor twins. How can they ever have a normal childhood when the truth finally emerges.

Good point. What are the chances of burying a body in a spot that happens to be an unofficial pets' cemetary within an area the size of approximately 3 football pitches? For what it's worth, this hill is surrounded on its southern and western perimeters by dirt roads which, though fairly well used during the day by walkers (and joggers) has little in the way of traffic. At night only the perimeter roads are lit so it is basically a large unlit area with some sections not visible from the adjacent roadways, particularly at night. Understandably it is not generally frequented after dark so is in fact a place which is both accessible while at the same time largely hidden from view between sunset and sunrise, and in many ways an ideal spot for clandestine activity. Having said all this it would surely require extremely solid intelligence for the current level of searching, with all the associated preparatory work and ongoing costs, not least the tranportation of the sniffer dogs from the April Jones murder investigation.

All of this would tend to convince that this is not being done for show and, regarding keeping the search private, how feasible is that really? It's a public area close to the village centre, the paparazzi have very long lenses and there are properties with balconies all around with grandstand views. There is little chance this search could ever have been kept low key, even outwith high season.

by HelenMeg 03.06.14 22:07

CynicAl wrote:
PeterMac wrote:It looks like a lair to me.
And a hellish one at that.

Like someone else said - this all seems so odd - that journalists are allowed to take close up photos of this search. It doesnt seem professional - just a sham 'dig'.
I mean - look at this..
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by kevmack 03.06.14 22:09

Markus 2 wrote:
kevmack wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:Something not right in Portugal. Certainly not in that case ,just makes me wonder have we got it right.
Please don't go down that rabbit hole again...

No I won't, just like to look at it from every angle

Yes, but I think the angle you're going for that the parents are innocent and that the Portuguese police are somehow involved in the disappearance was already covered the last time you derailed a thread...

by HelenMeg 03.06.14 22:10

All the photos (see Daily Fail) looked so staged - we see them dig - we see them observe - we see the dog (lovely lovely dog) we see the view - we see everything! Why should we? Its a murder investigation..
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by MarleneP 03.06.14 22:11

Yes, it's a show. As if to be shown: look here, we examine everything. To whom the pictures speak? Perpetrators? Taxpayers? We do not know (yet).

by HelenMeg 03.06.14 22:12

Sorry wont post any more pics - but here's ol' Andy - making sure we can see him out there being busy
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