Re: Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

by missmar1 02.06.14 11:42

tiny wrote:
cass7 wrote:lets take a min and reflect on what could be found , confermation that the poor baby madeleine has died . it might be a sad day , i joined up in 2007 to find out what happened to her , yes so many twists tales , and whatever , but i really hope that she can be found and a proper place for her to be burried , also i hope that sy and the pj are working together to try and solve this once and for all , whatever our op are it might be a very very sad day , and with all my heart i feel for members of her family the twins etc

I feel for the twins,i have no sympathy at all for the mccanns or thier rellies

Hi tiny,

I understand where you are coming from because of the way this whole case has been portrayed by some of the relatives of the Mccann's - but I am sure there are other relatives who have taken Madeleine's disappearance genuinely much worse than others .... I'm sure that some of them would have loved her deeply...she was just a little girl so sad.

by russiandoll 02.06.14 11:43

admin wrote:Lawrence McGinty is PJ bashing on This Morning with Phil and Holly.

I thought that was the radio broadcaster Nick Ferrari and Christine Hamilton and the general opinion was the missed golden hour, why did the PJ not do this kind of forensic search at the time. etc etc.. thank heaved for the Yard etc etc

who is Lawrence McGinty ?

by Mirage 02.06.14 11:45

kevmack wrote:If anything, the OFM fb page is almost sitting there, with it's fingers in its ears, saying "tralala..can't hear you" as 19 hours ago they posted a status reminding people to buy the holiday packs and keep looking for Madeleine...what flaming planet are they on?

Sad...very sad

I just took a look kevmack. It is surreal. But then the McCann world has been other-planetary all along and those who go through the one-way door risk getting McCanned for life.

I can envisage an identifiable syndrome in the future. Those who spent seven years in this reality-altering environment will be diagnosed with post-McCann stress disorder. These people will find themselves in all sorts of danger because they have lost the ability to mistrust .

by missmar1 02.06.14 11:50

russiandoll wrote:
admin wrote:Lawrence McGinty is PJ bashing on This Morning with Phil and Holly.

I thought that was the radio broadcaster Nick Ferrari and Christine Hamilton and the general opinion was the missed golden hour, why did the PJ not do this kind of forensic search at the time. etc etc.. thank heaved for the Yard etc etc

who is Lawrence McGinty ?

Unless they have read the whole background to this case, I do not believe tv personalities or broadcasters should be airing their opinions about this case on live tv ...... they have, by the very nature of their jobs, the opportunity to sway public minds on issues to do with this case and should not be allowed to do so imo....if anything, when discussing this case they should stay neutral imo.

by AndyB 02.06.14 11:54

Cristobell wrote:Well it certainly seems there are no smellymen, burglars or bedhoppers being lined up for interview - SY are in PDL to look for a body.

It has got to be obvious now to the whole world and its dog, that there was no abductor, and far from ignoring the alerts Eddie and Keela, both police forces are following their findings. I'm pretty sure the McCanns do not want these digs in PDL, they have not acknowledged them on their OFM fb page, there are no calls for prayer and they are definitely not flying out there. In fact the most recent items on their FB page relate to age progression pictures and the officially ruled out Tannerman.

None of the above is conducive to a whitewash, and I wonder if those who think this is an elaborate cover up have changed their minds?

I don't think it precludes a whitewash and, as far as I can see, the only thing that it isn't conducive to is finding an alive Madeleine. However, I have long believed that what is being covered up is not Madeleine's death but something else that the establishment does not want known and that the McCanns have merely been collateral beneficiaries. If I am correct in my beliefs, then it is perfectly possible for the McCanns to be wrongly convicted of Madeleine's murder (*) while the cover-up/whitewash of the big secret is maintained.

Having said that, and to address your query, I have to admit my beliefs are not as strongly held as they used to be.

* I know that there are members here who believe that Madeleine was killed by Kate in a fit of rage and I agree that it is a plausible theory but I don't subscribe to it.

by Cristobell 02.06.14 11:55

cass7 wrote:lets take a min and reflect on what could be found , confermation that the poor baby madeleine has died . it might be a sad day , i joined up in 2007 to find out what happened to her , yes so many twists tales , and whatever , but i really hope that she can be found and a proper place for her to be burried , also i hope that sy and the pj are working together to try and solve this once and for all , whatever our op are it might be a very very sad day , and with all my heart i feel for members of her family the twins etc

Nice sentiments Cass, but I find it impossible to sympathise with the parents, who it would appear are responsible for her body being dumped in desolate waste ground. I feel no sympathy either for the adult members of the two families who participated so enthusiastically in the fundraising - some of whom spent months holidaying in PDL courtesy of Warners and the generosity of the public.

I am disgusted and appalled by the whole lot of them. If the child's body is recovered, the parents should be there with a priest, to treat her mortal remains with respect and dignity. They have said they will not go out to PDL unless Madeleine's DNA is found. That is quite an ambiguous statement. They are not saying outright that they have no faith in the dig as that would show they are at odds with SY, but neither have they accepted there is body to be found. Indeed they are still plugging the myth that Madeleine is alive.

The reason they can't be there of course, is fear of arrest, but yet again they choose to lie rather than tell the truth.

by stillsloppingout 02.06.14 11:55

Photographs take on a life of there own ,on sometimes ie sport hard news instantly , others over time, and because of outside circumstances .

If they find a body , all the idillic pics of Gerry and Kate looking out to sea etc , will become notorious , like pics taken on a certain Moor in the 6o's .

It is My opinion something really is going down , because and i will check when i see the news if any UK agency's are there,[ less exclusive pix ] they have to have a good reason these days especially with the World Cup imminent the days of the jolly [ apart from SY are over ]

If any one can get a screen grab of the snappers , that would be good .

by sallypelt 02.06.14 11:55

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I can't seem to post the pic, but it looks that the place marked out for today's dig is the area at the very top of the photograph in the link that I've posted. It's in the middle of the photograph, at the top. Didn't the McCann's go running up some hill to a "monument" of sorts? Is this the area? Please correct me if I am wrong high5

by sami 02.06.14 11:56

missmar1 wrote:
Hi tiny,

I understand where you are coming from because of the way this whole case has been portrayed by some of the relatives of the Mccann's - but I am sure there are other relatives who have taken Madeleine's disappearance genuinely much worse than others .... I'm sure that some of them would have loved her deeply...she was just a little girl so sad.

Sadly, I have to disagree. I'm sure there is/was grieving on their part but as far as taking a stand and demanding answers as to what happened to that little girl, I can only name two people in the world who stood up and nailed their colours to the mast on her behalf. Neither of those men were relatives of Madeleine. They were strangers to her and will always remain so.

Her relatives have stood back for seven years and done nothing, other than generate money for the fund. Her parents have enjoyed a lavish lifestyle from her name. There will be grieving if there is closure but for the loss of all of the material benefits they have enjoyed. I hope they will someday grieve for the loss of their freedom too, if it is found they were involved.

by sallypelt 02.06.14 12:01

I try not to get into debates about "what ifs", but I am going to put my head on the block on this rare occasion, as there's been something niggling me for quite a few months, and this has to do with David Payne. I still find it strange that David and Fiona weren't in the Crimewatch reconstruction. Add this to the fact that David Payne and Fiona Payne registered a new company, back in November? last year. This is the first time that David and Fiona Payne have been directors of any company. Does anyone else find the odd? Have the Payne's cracked? All speculation on my part.

by russiandoll 02.06.14 12:02

sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I can't seem to post the pic, but it looks that the place marked out for today's dig is the area at the very top of the photograph in the link that I've posted. It's in the middle of the photograph, at the top. Didn't the McCann's go running up some hill to a "monument" of sorts? Is this the area? Please correct me if I am wrong

I posted part of an interview with GA where he discusses an area worth searching again and he mentioned Kate's running. A couple of pages back.

Looks like my son and his young pals landed when the Met lads did, if true they landed at Faro last night. He is there for a week but after initially deciding to visit PdL on this trip, having heard that the place will be full of media and police and the nature of what is happening, decided not to add to the people disrupting this little place as the locals and people staying there on holiday have enough to contend with without the addition of daytrippers.

by sallypelt 02.06.14 12:04

russiandoll wrote:
sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I can't seem to post the pic, but it looks that the place marked out for today's dig is the area at the very top of the photograph in the link that I've posted. It's in the middle of the photograph, at the top. Didn't the McCann's go running up some hill to a "monument" of sorts? Is this the area? Please correct me if I am wrong

I posted part of an interview with GA where he discusses an area worth searching again and he mentioned Kate's running. A couple of pages back.

TY Russian Doll. I miss so many posts, as I am doing other things, but I will go and look at your post.

by sallypelt 02.06.14 12:06

russiandoll wrote:Perhaps worth a reminder of GA's words in an interview and whether they correspond to the current search sites :

That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.

HC: Curiously, the whole area was thoroughly examined, that should be said.

GA: As well, yes.

HC: The whole area was examined, the whole area was acquired, the whole area was divided…

GA: There is an important detail…

HC: You do not have access to that area, because today you can see that certain parts are private, curiously, almost in the path that goes to the cliff’s escarpment.

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GA: There is an important aspect and that is the diary of Mrs Kate McCann. There are some who have the opinion the diary was written to be read. At a certain point in time, following the dates given there just a few days after the disappearance, Mrs. Kate McCann says that she is running, doing her jogging – the daughter is missing and she is doing her training – and in there, in that plateau that we are seeing right now, she said that she was climbing it when she saw a number of journalists, of people and that she begun suspecting that the body of her daughter had been found. That is in her diary. She points to that area

This is all so interesting. I am now certain that the photograph I posted a few post up , shows the area being searched. It's not marked on the photograph, and only a small part has been captured on the photograph, but the area of interest is middle top of the pic.

by cass7 02.06.14 12:10

regarding me feeling sorry for the family i mean the twins and maybe grand ma , grandad and other family members , after all madeleine was their grandaughter , and it must be hard for them over the years , they have stuck by their own in believing what kate and gerry tells them , as for the mcanns kate and gerry well it is their fault that madeleine is missing no if buts bleeding swathy man , their night out was more important to them than the saftey of their children also maybe they have been told to keep well away let portugal and the uk get on with it no mcann show , keep well away

by sallypelt 02.06.14 12:10

The McCann's can bee seen running up the hill, in this photograph. It's the bottom left pic.

Edited to post the link: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by missmar1 02.06.14 12:19

sami wrote:
missmar1 wrote:
Hi tiny,

I understand where you are coming from because of the way this whole case has been portrayed by some of the relatives of the Mccann's - but I am sure there are other relatives who have taken Madeleine's disappearance genuinely much worse than others .... I'm sure that some of them would have loved her deeply...she was just a little girl so sad.

Sadly, I have to disagree. I'm sure there is/was grieving on their part but as far as taking a stand and demanding answers as to what happened to that little girl, I can only name two people in the world who stood up and nailed their colours to the mast on her behalf. Neither of those men were relatives of Madeleine. They were strangers to her and will always remain so.

Her relatives have stood back for seven years and done nothing, other than generate money for the fund. Her parents have enjoyed a lavish lifestyle from her name. There will be grieving if there is closure but for the loss of all of the material benefits they have enjoyed. I hope they will someday grieve for the loss of their freedom too, if it is found they were involved.

When you put it like that I have to agree with you sami, - especially about the two people you mention that have stood up against the might of the Mccann's and their legal team. They have fought so hard and lost so much to get justice for a little girl they have never even met.... but I cannot believe this little girl doesnt have even one family member on either side who loved her deeply and will be heartbroken if her remains are ever found.

by **PeterMac** 02.06.14 12:21

"Buried" in the Independent article is this, though you have to dig to find it.
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British officers are thought to have identified a number of search areas, including one outside the resort, and have reportedly been surveying the region from the air.

It also repeats that they are going to use the Notoriously unreliable" dogs.

by kevmack 02.06.14 12:22

sallypelt wrote:I try not to get into debates about "what ifs", but I am going to put my head on the block on this rare occasion, as there's been something niggling me for quite a few months, and this has to do with David Payne. I still find it strange that David and Fiona weren't in the Crimewatch reconstruction. Add this to the fact that David Payne and Fiona Payne registered a new company, back in November? last year. This is the first time that David and Fiona Payne have been directors of any company. Does anyone else find the odd? Have the Payne's cracked? All speculation on my part.

I agree Sally, it struck me immediately that the Payne's had disappeared from the narrative, along with D Webster, and my first thought was that perhaps David Payne had finally talked about the issues he alluded to in his rogatory interview about things that were perhaps best left to another forum (or words to that effect)

David Payne was indeed up to his neck in it, with his "magical visit" that lasted anywhere between 30 secs and 30 mins and I always felt that Fiona was off message when she talked about how she found it strange that Kate kept putting her fingers underneath the twins noses, almost to check if they were breathing.

I think that the Paynes are far stronger characters than any of the rest of the tapas group, and whereas Jane, Russell, Matthew and Rachael, seemed almost to be in fear or cowed by Gerry, I don't think David and Fiona were imo and whilst we may always have imagined that Jane or Russell would be the weakest link, it is very possible that the stronger characters are the ones most likely to put an end to this sorry saga imo

by Mirage 02.06.14 12:24

Pulling back and looking at the bigger picture is always interesting. Digging your way out of the Stephen Lawrence corruption damage may prove the turning point for the MET.

AFAIC the establishment, the media, the clebs and SY have relentlessly pushed a pro-McCann agenda for seven long years and demonised those who stated the obvious. If the MET come good now I will only ever think the whole lot of them gave this agenda their best shot and failed in the attempt. There is simply no other evidence for me to reach any other conclusion. Thus, I will never subscribe to the idea that this has been a three year attempt to get at the truth. I have only ever waited for the moment where the fates conspire to catalyse the denouement that forces the truth out of them.

The question of whitewash or not has now become academic. History books will go back and trawl over this national disgrace looking for forensic traces of integrity and decency. Not one dog will bark.

by gbwales 02.06.14 12:27

missmar1 wrote:if her remains are ever found.

I think if remains are found they are likely to be away from PdL - as PeterMac indicates the area mentioned "outside of the resort" would be likely. Whether that is the area off to the west nearer Sagres - or maybe to the east off from the Huelva route, who knows.
Certainly I would imagine that if the searches *in* the resort are not purely sick theatre, then they would not be expecting to find a body, but perhaps the items that have been mentioned previously - traces of the crime, rather that its victim. IMO.

by HelenMeg 02.06.14 12:29

margaret wrote:
Cristobell wrote:Well it certainly seems there are no smellymen, burglars or bedhoppers being lined up for interview - SY are in PDL to look for a body.

It has got to be obvious now to the whole world and its dog, that there was no abductor, and far from ignoring the alerts Eddie and Keela, both police forces are following their findings. I'm pretty sure the McCanns do not want these digs in PDL, they have not acknowledged them on their OFM fb page, there are no calls for prayer and they are definitely not flying out there. In fact the most recent items on their FB page relate to age progression pictures and the officially ruled out Tannerman.

None of the above is conducive to a whitewash, and I wonder if those who think this is an elaborate cover up have changed their minds?

In a nutshell you have summed up my feelings too. SY can't bring dogs in this week and ignore their 2007 alerts, the fact that the McCanns have said they won't set foot in Portugal says it all.

I wonder what SY think was buried on that scrubland?

I hope you are right Cristobell although there are still some things which I do find conducive to whitewash.
Mainly statements that come from SY - such as those that have alluded to finding closure for Kate and Gerry. If the body or other evidence is buried somewhere near PdL, then it may not conclusively prove that K / G are guilty as far as SY are concerned or wish to portray it... anyway, I would prefer to feel optimistic and take your lead.

by **PeterMac** 02.06.14 12:30

gbwales wrote:
I think if remains are found they are likely to be away from PdL - as PeterMac indicates the area mentioned "outside of the resort" would be likely. Whether that is the area off to the west nearer Sagres - or maybe to the east off from the Huelva route, who knows..

Dogs don't lie.
Neither do phone pings.

by russiandoll 02.06.14 12:31

Former SY detective on Sky soon to give his thoughts on the dig.

by gbwales 02.06.14 12:32

PeterMac wrote:It also repeats that they are going to use the Notoriously unreliable" dogs.

The renewed emphasis on dogs must be making the 'Pros' furious.
They will always remain a huge thorn in the side of any cover-up / whitewash attempt. Their findings are well documented and they're not going away. To now bring in more dogs only reinforces the notion that Eddie & Keela can never be dismissed.

by gbwales 02.06.14 12:33

PeterMac wrote:
gbwales wrote:
I think if remains are found they are likely to be away from PdL - as PeterMac indicates the area mentioned "outside of the resort" would be likely. Whether that is the area off to the west nearer Sagres - or maybe to the east off from the Huelva route, who knows..
Dogs don't lie.
Neither do phone pings.

Quite.

by HelenMeg 02.06.14 12:35

kevmack wrote:
sallypelt wrote:I try not to get into debates about "what ifs", but I am going to put my head on the block on this rare occasion, as there's been something niggling me for quite a few months, and this has to do with David Payne. I still find it strange that David and Fiona weren't in the Crimewatch reconstruction. Add this to the fact that David Payne and Fiona Payne registered a new company, back in November? last year. This is the first time that David and Fiona Payne have been directors of any company. Does anyone else find the odd? Have the Payne's cracked? All speculation on my part.
I agree Sally, it struck me immediately that the Payne's had disappeared from the narrative, along with D Webster, and my first thought was that perhaps David Payne had finally talked about the issues he alluded to in his rogatory interview about things that were perhaps best left to another forum (or words to that effect)

David Payne was indeed up to his neck in it, with his "magical visit" that lasted anywhere between 30 secs and 30 mins and I always felt that Fiona was off message when she talked about how she found it strange that Kate kept putting her fingers underneath the twins noses, almost to check if they were breathing.

I think that the Paynes are far stronger characters than any of the rest of the tapas group, and whereas Jane, Russell, Matthew and Rachael, seemed almost to be in fear or cowed by Gerry, I don't think David and Fiona were imo and whilst we may always have imagined that Jane or Russell would be the weakest link, it is very possible that the stronger characters are the ones most likely to put an end to this sorry saga imo

Yes, tend to agree with your thinking about the stronger ones being perhaps more likely to stop this charade.
My thinking is that those of them who are less involved and played a lesser role may not be as likely to break as those who were more significantly involved. These who played a bigger role may now be getting very worried and I think that those who feel the greater stress are more inclined to break.
Or perhaps before 'breaking' they would talk to other members and say ' we are going to talk ... you have the chance to join us or not..'

by sofieellis 02.06.14 12:35

Sky news: Lots of vehicles have arrived at the scene. These are the British police.

by russiandoll 02.06.14 12:35

On Sky now, UK guys are there getting their stuff out of a van. Some in working gear, some in suits.

and here is one of the regulars, ex - Met Peter Bleksley ,to comment.

Media zooming in to rods being pushed into the ground. I am certain police will put up tents to maintain privacy if they find anything of interest. They won't allow a media circus now, not with what they might find.

And now Bleksley and Murnaghan are being critical of the original searches. Same old same old.

by sallypelt 02.06.14 12:36

This is how Corrieo da Manha is reporting the dig, this morning:

Searches for Maddie starts tomorrow

Dogs and Englishmen will use probes to find the dead body of Maddie in Praia da Luz
Seven years after Madeleine McCann disappeared from the resort of Praia da Luz , Lagos , the British police returned to search the ground . Now look for the corpse of the English child , after research have changed course : this time , argue that Maddie was killed the night she disappeared in 2007 , and that the body will have been hiding in the vicinity of the dwelling where vacationed with family .

The motive of the crime was a failed robbery. Something went wrong , defend the English, who even believe that the girl will awake and crying when he saw a stranger .

Afraid that the screams alerted family members - who dined less than 500 meters - the suspect would have killed Maddie . And later removed the body from the house , to hide in terrain that exist nearby village .

Scotland Yard should begin excavations tomorrow being closely monitored by the Judicial Police . The aim is to check the entire area , to find any trace to confirm the thesis of homicide .

The English arrived at the weekend and will now only consider the land and undertake the delimitation of the area .

Also according to the Morning Post found both probes that will be used as the dogs are English . The animals have been used in other similar situations - and Scotland Yard ensures that succeed .

Recall also that the same dogs were used at the beginning of the investigation , having detected cadaver odor in the trunk of the rented by the parents of Madeleine McCann car. It was in fact based on that evidence that the Portuguese authorities advanced to the constitution of Kate and Gerry as defendants , claiming that they had accidentally killed the little Madeleine .

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There's a bit more to add to the above: During the day, the British police will examine the land and proceed to defining the area tomorrow to start making excavations

by Mirage 02.06.14 12:43

kevmack wrote:
sallypelt wrote:I try not to get into debates about "what ifs", but I am going to put my head on the block on this rare occasion, as there's been something niggling me for quite a few months, and this has to do with David Payne. I still find it strange that David and Fiona weren't in the Crimewatch reconstruction. Add this to the fact that David Payne and Fiona Payne registered a new company, back in November? last year. This is the first time that David and Fiona Payne have been directors of any company. Does anyone else find the odd? Have the Payne's cracked? All speculation on my part.
I agree Sally, it struck me immediately that the Payne's had disappeared from the narrative, along with D Webster, and my first thought was that perhaps David Payne had finally talked about the issues he alluded to in his rogatory interview about things that were perhaps best left to another forum (or words to that effect)

David Payne was indeed up to his neck in it, with his "magical visit" that lasted anywhere between 30 secs and 30 mins and I always felt that Fiona was off message when she talked about how she found it strange that Kate kept putting her fingers underneath the twins noses, almost to check if they were breathing.

I think that the Paynes are far stronger characters than any of the rest of the tapas group, and whereas Jane, Russell, Matthew and Rachael, seemed almost to be in fear or cowed by Gerry, I don't think David and Fiona were imo and whilst we may always have imagined that Jane or Russell would be the weakest link, it is very possible that the stronger characters are the ones most likely to put an end to this sorry saga imo

There is always a reason for something like this. Always. None of these things are accidental. Including the lingering close up of the floating bath-time duck on the swimming pool. One of the few constants in the CW reconstructions. The Mcs are past-masters at subliminals; their preferred method of communicating warnings.I have always thought this shot was done for a purpose. So, bath-time duck. No Paynes; - pivotal members of the T7.

Btw, has anyone noticed Gamble in meltdown mode on twitter, threatening all and sundry with legal action?

The Oldfields joined the McCanns for the Clapham run. Running together again after so long.

Then there's JT. Cut a sad lonely figure in the mockumentary. Cut a sad lonely figure on the courthouse steps. An exit route from the albatross (people are saying I'm a liar and a fantasist) sighting. A new life; maybe alone.

Nothing is accidental. Not even these digs. Stephen Lawrence. Madeleine McCann. The stars align.

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