Re: Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

by whatliesbehindthesofa 29.05.14 20:49

PeterMac wrote:
For what it is worth I not only think they will not find anything anywhere near 5A, I don't think they will search in any serious way - other than for press cameras - anywhere near 5A.
It would make no "scenario sense", and it would make no operational sense to waste resources.
Unless it was too keep the press looking 'Over here".

I have purported another location, where a proper dig type search might bear fruit.
Nowhere near 5A, not even in PdL, but not too far away.
The sort of place someone with a ruptured Achilles tendon might nip to, one cold afternoon.
And might re-visit once he (or she of course) had access to a car.

Yes, this is my belief too.

by Guest 29.05.14 21:23

missmar1 wrote:
Popcorn wrote:But it was Jane Tanner who saw Tannerman. Nobody else did. So I would imagine that for Redwood to appear on Crimewatch and state conclusively that they have ruled this character out, they most likely have Jane Tanner's agreement that the man they've found is definitely - or almost certainly - the person she saw. In which case what can the McCanns do? Gerry said himself that he didn't see the man (or indeed Jane), so he cannot say who Jane saw and whether she has wrongly identified the person she says she saw as creche man now.

Yes, but in order for Tannerman to have been officially eliminated, DCI has, in effect, agreed that JT did see the person she claimed to have seen - but he turned out to be an innocent passerby carrying his own child. Therefore, if the Mccann's want to challenge DCI Redwoods claims - he would have to produce a real living Tannerman - but could he ? I doubt very much that DCI Redwood would have taken JT to meet Mr Tannerman in person .... makes you wonder just how many officers/people did actually meet him after he came forward.....

Are you suggesting that Redwood invented Creche Dad to help the get the McCanns out of trouble, or to help convict them? (Or neither of these?)

If the former, it doesn't really help them much because it puts the emphasis on the troublesome Smith sighting and it doesn't open up the "window of opportunity" for abduction as, according to the McCanns and their friends, their was so little time between their checks anyway.

If Redwood invented this character to help him convict the McCanns, how would he know that Jane would be willing to go along with it? And if she did so because she simply wanted an easy way out of the whole messy business, surely he must have considered that the McCanns (who are probably the most expensively lawyered up doctors in the country) are going to defend themselves quite vigorously in court?

If the McCann defence was depending on Jane's Tannerman as their abductor, then Tannerman/Crecheman becomes a key witness, and if the police are shown to have invented him, any case against the McCanns would be in tatters.

This leads me to believe that either Redwood knows very well that nobody – including the McCanns – is ever going to want or need to cross examine this invented witness in court, or he is confident that his Crecheman will absolutely be able to stand up under heavy and aggressive questioning.

by Justformaddie 29.05.14 21:25

Does anyone think maddie may have been buried in her pjs? Would they have been likely to (hate this ... Descent enough) to lay her to rest in her jammies or do the unthinkable... Ok, naked? God, that was hard to type. IMO

by margaret 29.05.14 21:29

Justformaddie wrote:Does anyone think maddie may have been buried in her pjs? Would they have been likely to (hate this ... Descent enough) to lay her to rest in her jammies or do the unthinkable... Ok, naked? God, that was hard to type. IMO

If the Mccanns say Maddie disappeared in pyjamas, then l say that's the last thing she would have been wearing. big grin

by Praiaaa 29.05.14 21:31

margaret wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Does anyone think maddie may have been buried in her pjs? Would they have been likely to (hate this ... Descent enough) to lay her to rest in her jammies or do the unthinkable... Ok, naked? God, that was hard to type. IMO

If the Mccanns say Maddie disappeared in pyjamas, then l say that's the last thing she would have been wearing.

by Justformaddie 29.05.14 21:32

margaret wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Does anyone think maddie may have been buried in her pjs? Would they have been likely to (hate this ... Descent enough) to lay her to rest in her jammies or do the unthinkable... Ok, naked? God, that was hard to type. IMO

If the Mccanns say Maddie disappeared in pyjamas, then l say that's the last thing she would have been wearing.

Spot on, gotta start thinking like them! big grin

by stillsloppingout 29.05.14 22:18

Justformaddie wrote:Does anyone think maddie may have been buried in her pjs? Would they have been likely to (hate this ... Descent enough) to lay her to rest in her jammies or do the unthinkable... Ok, naked? God, that was hard to type. IMO

Being forensic in there planning, and confident there will be no body , i sadly feel there would be no clothing or any item that could be linked to her [ or more importantly them, ie with there DNA, hair fibres ] .

But i also doubt she would have been burned on a pyre ,[ smoke ] or dismembered [ for easy burial ] that would surly be too much for any human .

Boggy marsh land or the like for me , covered in a corrosive substance . sad

by Grande Finale 30.05.14 3:36

Praiaaa wrote:
margaret wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Does anyone think maddie may have been buried in her pjs? Would they have been likely to (hate this ... Descent enough) to lay her to rest in her jammies or do the unthinkable... Ok, naked? God, that was hard to type. IMO

If the Mccanns say Maddie disappeared in pyjamas, then l say that's the last thing she would have been wearing.

Most likely was maddie's Jammies held up at press conference, even had a stain on knee (Scab from airplane steps ?)

OTOH though what happened to maddies "last" outfit ? did eddie get a sniff. I never saw it on the photos ?
Maybe dissapeared with maddie ?

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 7:24

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
For what it is worth I not only think they will not find anything anywhere near 5A, I don't think they will search in any serious way - other than for press cameras - anywhere near 5A.
It would make no "scenario sense", and it would make no operational sense to waste resources.
Unless it was too keep the press looking 'Over here".

I have purported another location, where a proper dig type search might bear fruit.
Nowhere near 5A, not even in PdL, but not too far away.
The sort of place someone with a ruptured Achilles tendon might nip to, one cold afternoon.
And might re-visit once he (or she of course) had access to a car.

Yes, this is my belief too.

I third this, I think they will not find the body anywhere near vicinity of 5A.
Rue 25 April, not far from Smith's sighting, iiamw, is probably just misinformation from media.

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 7:59

aiyoyo wrote:
I third this, I think they will not find the body anywhere near vicinity of 5A.
Rue 25 April, not far from Smith's sighting, iiamw, is probably just misinformation from media.

From the Media,
or
FOR the media

The idea of a fleeing abductor carrying a dead child, who has now been seen and Spoken to by the entire Smith Family, suddenly turning back and digging a hole in a patch of land used as a car park,
by the light of street lamps (which people seem to have totally forgotten about) in full view of all the apartments which surround two sides of it, in the time between the sighting (10:00pm) and the time the screaming and searching starts (10 :01 pm)
is
Frankly
- all together now - 1, 2 ,3

LUDICROUS

by **Tony Bennett** 30.05.14 8:25

PeterMac wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
I third this, I think they will not find the body anywhere near vicinity of 5A.
Rue 25 April, not far from Smith's sighting, iiamw, is probably just misinformation from media.
From the Media,
or
FOR the media

The idea of a fleeing abductor carrying a dead child, who has now been seen and Spoken to by the entire Smith Family, suddenly turning back and digging a hole in a patch of land used as a car park,
by the light of street lamps (which people seem to have totally forgotten about) in full view of all the apartments which surround two sides of it, in the time between the sighting (10:00pm) and the time the screaming and searching starts (10 :01 pm)
is
Frankly
- all together now - 1, 2 ,3

LUDICROUS

@ PeterMac

From what we know:

1. The search is on for 'Smithman'

2. Grange is suggesting that 'Smithman' is 'Smelly bin man'

3. Redwood is suggesting quite plainly that Madeleine may have been 'dead when she left the apartment'

4. Redwood is almost triumphant that he found 'Crecheman' and now has a '45-minute' window instead of a 3-minute one (or 1 min 40 secs as per your analysis) for the abduction to take place

5. It looks like the dig (it seems to be only one though some reports differ) may be along or close to the route that the alleged 'Smithman' took.

This does not exclude the following (based on what we know) from being Redwood's current scenario:

A. Smithman/Smelly bin man enters G5A after 9.15pm

B. Kills Madeleine

C. Walks through the streets of PdL with Madeleine's body without being seen by anybody except an Irish family who don't bother to tell anyone for thriteen days and then say 'It wasn't Robert Murat'

D. Hides the body in a temporary location and then buries it somewhere days or weeks later.

OK, also ludicrous, BUT on that scenario 'Smelly bin man' doesn't bury the body en route, only hides it somewhere and then buries it later

by NickE 30.05.14 8:30

[size=48]Portuguese police start digging for Madeleine McCann’s body[/size]

THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.

By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]/Published 30th May 2014

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]WASTELAND: This is where the focus of the search will take place [PH]

Portuguese officers searched a stretch of waste ground where the operation to find the missing youngster’s body will start next week.

It is close to where a man was seen carrying a sleeping girl in pink pyjamas the night the then three year- old vanished, seven years ago.

An Irish family saw him walking off with the child around the time Madeleine’s mum Kate, 46, discovered her missing from her bed in the family’s apartment at the nearby Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz.

“The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search.”

Despite a Europe-wide TV appeal to trace the man, and the issuing of an efit, he has not been identified and remains the British police’s prime suspect.

Several officers examined the area on foot and by car on Wednesday after driving to the Algarve resort from their Faro base an hour away.

Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo led the site survey.

It had been thought police would start their search at fenced-off land next to the Ocean Club.

But the Portuguese police were spotted going over wasteland next to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street) near the centre of the resort.

The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported.

Met Police are expected to provide sniffer dogs and ground-penetrating radar for next week’s search, expected to last four to six days.

Kate and her husband Gerry, 45, continue to believe their daughter, who would now be 11, is still alive.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 8:46

PeterMac wrote
From the Media,
or
FOR the media

If the intention is to avoid press camera - look there, not here....it would be futile misinformation if JCB and dogs are going to be used.

The press will be keeping their eyes peeled for dig activity unless the date is misinformation too.

by Bishop Brennan 30.05.14 8:48

PeterMac wrote:

The idea of a fleeing abductor carrying a dead child, who has now been seen and Spoken to by the entire Smith Family, suddenly turning back and digging a hole in a patch of land used as a car park,
by the light of street lamps (which people seem to have totally forgotten about) in full view of all the apartments which surround two sides of it, in the time between the sighting (10:00pm) and the time the screaming and searching starts (10 :01 pm)
is
Frankly
- all together now - 1, 2 ,3

LUDICROUS

You forgot to mention that between being spotted and starting his furtive dig, he also has to somehow purchase, borrow or otherwise get hold of - a spade or other digging equipment. Unless the digging kit was waiting for him... Shocked

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 8:52

A man-created walking path is evident in the 'wasteland picture', indication the area is well accessed by human traffic regularly. What is the probability of Gerry digging in an area of high risk to exposure of being seen?

Imagine you have a conspicuous bag by your side and you are seen digging furtively with a tool ?

by Bishop Brennan 30.05.14 8:55

Tony Bennett wrote:

This does not exclude the following (based on what we know) from being Redwood's current scenario:

A. Smithman/Smelly bin man enters G5A after 9.15pm

B. Kills Madeleine

C. Walks through the streets of PdL with Madeleine's body without being seen by anybody except an Irish family who don't bother to tell anyone for thriteen days and then say 'It wasn't Robert Murat'

D. Hides the body in a temporary location and then buries it somewhere days or weeks later.

OK, also ludicrous, BUT on that scenario 'Smelly bin man' doesn't bury the body en route, only hides it somewhere and then buries it later

Astonishingly this does appear to be AR's line of enquiry. But then why DIG at this location? No way would smithman return later to bury her in central PDL. Much more likely that smithman transported her body (perhaps in a blue-bag) to its final resting place somewhere away from streetlights/search parties/press/dogs/apartment windows.

The whole thing is just so unreal... It's like its AR's very first case, and that he didn't read ANY of the PJ files. Perhaps he doesn't realise they are there?

by canada12 30.05.14 8:57

THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.

Just think for a moment about this headline. Would this have been possible last year? Six months ago? Wouldn't a headline like this have been Carter-Rucked pdq?

by ChippyM 30.05.14 9:01

Why is anyone giving credence to the reported dig site being the wasteground by 5A? It's yet again from an anonymous source in the media!

by ultimaThule 30.05.14 9:08

Kate and her husband Gerry, 45, continue to believe their daughter, who would now be 11, is still alive

Considering the amount of money they've got riding on the libel trial and the profitability of their lifestyle fund it's unsurprising they're not willing admit that, after 7 years with no credible sighting, in all probability Madeleine is dead..

by tiny 30.05.14 9:16

ChippyM wrote:Why is anyone giving credence to the reported dig site being the wasteground by 5A? It's yet again from an anonymous source in the media!

Im not,no way would the pj let people know were they are digging(if they are, that is) unless its a red herring

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 9:18

canada12 wrote:THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.

Just think for a moment about this headline. Would this have been possible last year? Six months ago? Wouldn't a headline like this have been Carter-Rucked pdq?

Final ? Suggesting previous exists.

by canada12 30.05.14 9:21

aiyoyo wrote:
canada12 wrote:THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.

Just think for a moment about this headline. Would this have been possible last year? Six months ago? Wouldn't a headline like this have been Carter-Rucked pdq?

Final ? Suggesting previous exists.

Yes, that's quite interesting, isn't it. "Final resting place" is a phrase usually used when you're describing some sort of funeral service where a body is moved from one location to another - ie, from place of death, to funeral home, to church, to cemetery.

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 9:25

tiny wrote:
ChippyM wrote:Why is anyone giving credence to the reported dig site being the wasteground by 5A? It's yet again from an anonymous source in the media!

Im not,no way would the pj know were they are digging(if they are, that is) unless its a red herring

What is the red herring though?

The dig or the venue?

If reports are true that multiple-areas-dig approvals are sought, not difficult to deduce they have no clue on definite venue. It's a fishing expedition that may end up futile and they know it.

by ChippyM 30.05.14 9:34

aiyoyo wrote:
tiny wrote:
ChippyM wrote:Why is anyone giving credence to the reported dig site being the wasteground by 5A? It's yet again from an anonymous source in the media!

Im not,no way would the pj know were they are digging(if they are, that is) unless its a red herring

What is the red herring though?

The dig or the venue?

If reports are true that multiple-areas-dig approvals are sought, not difficult to deduce they have no clue on definite venue. It's a fishing expedition that may end up futile and they know it.

SY and PJ have never stated they were going to 'dig'.

SY have talked about a 'substantial phase of operational activity' but they have never confirmed exactly were this is to take place or what form the activity will take.

Any other information is speculation from the media, so we can't say this coming activity is 'fishing'.

by tiny 30.05.14 9:36

aiyoyo wrote:
tiny wrote:
ChippyM wrote:Why is anyone giving credence to the reported dig site being the wasteground by 5A? It's yet again from an anonymous source in the media!

Im not,no way would the pj know were they are digging(if they are, that is) unless its a red herring

What is the red herring though?

The dig or the venue?

If reports are true that multiple-areas-dig approvals are sought, not difficult to deduce they have no clue on definite venue. It's a fishing expedition that may end up futile and they know it.

if this dig ever happens at all

by NickE 30.05.14 9:39

The theory Redwood has about a burglar killed Madeleine inside 5A must be to play with McCann's abductor theory, there is no other explanation.
First of all, burglars do NOT use the window to get out when there is a door.
And especially not with a 4 year old girl in his arms.
NO DNA.
NO fingerprints
NO sign of break in.
NO things of value was taken
The security gates were closed
Kate´s fingerprints on the window.
Kate lied in phone about the smashed shutters

by Guest 30.05.14 9:45

NickE wrote:[size=48]Portuguese police start digging for Madeleine McCann’s body[/size]

THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.

By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]/Published 30th May 2014

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]WASTELAND: This is where the focus of the search will take place [PH]

Portuguese officers searched a stretch of waste ground where the operation to find the missing youngster’s body will start next week.

It is close to where a man was seen carrying a sleeping girl in pink pyjamas the night the then three year- old vanished, seven years ago.

An Irish family saw him walking off with the child around the time Madeleine’s mum Kate, 46, discovered her missing from her bed in the family’s apartment at the nearby Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz.

“The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search.”

Despite a Europe-wide TV appeal to trace the man, and the issuing of an efit, he has not been identified and remains the British police’s prime suspect.

Several officers examined the area on foot and by car on Wednesday after driving to the Algarve resort from their Faro base an hour away.

Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo led the site survey.

It had been thought police would start their search at fenced-off land next to the Ocean Club.

But the Portuguese police were spotted going over wasteland next to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street) near the centre of the resort.

The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported.

Met Police are expected to provide sniffer dogs and ground-penetrating radar for next week’s search, expected to last four to six days.

Kate and her husband Gerry, 45, continue to believe their daughter, who would now be 11, is still alive.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The wasteland is the only area the British police have permission to search.

If the searches are to be carried out by the Portuguese with assistance from the British, the British will not need permission to search other areas as they will not be the ones searching - they're just assisting.

I think this is something to keep the press happy while the real search is conducted elsewhere.

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 9:47

For a long time we have been told, on good authority (The Press ! ) that the dig site was close to the Smith sighting, and maps have been helpfully provided.

Thus
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
and thus
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

NOW we are gradually being told that this it NOT the search area, but that they are going to concentrate on a patch of land, already half prepared with road layout for a future Urbanisation.
the piece which looks like a Snail bottom left of this picture
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Which looks like this
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Perfect place to start digging, don't you think

Wide open space, hard compacted or bedrock ground, overlooked by dozens of apartments . . . courting couples in cars and under bushes . . police patrols . . lads on mountain bikes and motos. . . people taking the dog for a last walk before bed . . .

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 9:54

canada12 wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
canada12 wrote:THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.
Just think for a moment about this headline. Would this have been possible last year? Six months ago? Wouldn't a headline like this have been Carter-Rucked pdq?
Final ? Suggesting previous exists.
Yes, that's quite interesting, isn't it. "Final resting place" is a phrase usually used when you're describing some sort of funeral service where a body is moved from one location to another - ie, from place of death, to funeral home, to church, to cemetery.

And to rub it in , the headline says it TWICE, in different ways.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Portuguese police start digging for Madeleine McCann’s body
THE police hunt for Madeleine McCann’s final resting place has begun.
By Jerry Lawton/Published 30th May 2014

Three times if you include the header ! "What I tell you three times is true ?"

This is a repeat of what they said yesterday and IIRC the day before.
Not a mistake.
Perhaps C-R are on holiday.
Or, more likely, the money has run out and TB's State Pension is not enough for them to open the Pandora's box again,
and have them forced to admit there was no evidence of Abduction

by wicksy 30.05.14 9:57

Yes, but photo it from the right angle and it looks like wild scrubland, the perfect 'final resting place'. At least for the press and the general public.

Any idea when the roads were laid, PM?