Re: Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

by ultimaThule 30.05.14 9:59

PeterMac wrote:I think we can cheerfully disregard anything CdM write until it is proven independently from another source,
though it is certainly intriguing that they talk about The English believing in the Death, and Cadaver Dogs in the same piece.

Not good for the Pro-child-neglect lobby

And not good for the McCanns' claim against Dr Amaral and his co-defendants, PeterM

by Pershing36 30.05.14 10:38

This all brings back memories of the Ben Needham case when the police traveled to Kos and randomly started excavating a field. Unsurprisingly they found nothing and I believe it was done for show to make it look like they were doing something rather than it being based on some viable lead.

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 10:39

wicksy wrote:Yes, but photo it from the right angle and it looks like wild scrubland, the perfect 'final resting place'. At least for the press and the general public.

Any idea when the roads were laid, PM?

Can't be that wild when a well trodden path is evident.

by Guest 30.05.14 10:44

NickE wrote:
Portuguese officers searched a stretch of waste ground where the operation to find the missing youngster’s body will start next week.
......
Several officers examined the area on foot and by car on Wednesday after driving to the Algarve resort from their Faro base an hour away.
.....
Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo led the site survey.
.....
But the Portuguese police were spotted going over wasteland next to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street) near the centre of the resort.

Is it normal to trample all over a site in anticipation of searching it forensically?

by ChippyM 30.05.14 10:56

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
NickE wrote:
Portuguese officers searched a stretch of waste ground where the operation to find the missing youngster’s body will start next week.
......
Several officers examined the area on foot and by car on Wednesday after driving to the Algarve resort from their Faro base an hour away.
.....
Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo led the site survey.
.....
But the Portuguese police were spotted going over wasteland next to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street) near the centre of the resort.

Is it normal to trample all over a site in anticipation of searching it forensically?

I'm no expert but I wouldn't have thought so.

...which supports the theory that the coming 'activity' is not necessarily a dig. These officers could have been plotting out somebodies movements. We also don't know from the report if the officers went anywhere else. If they went outside the town nobody would think it was connected to the case so it probably wouldn't be reported.

by MarleneP 30.05.14 10:56

You could see it like this:

1 SY believes Smith family. The children do not lie, they saw a man with a child. There was a Smithman and it could be Gerry.

2 There is the smell of corpses in the apartment = the child died hours before disappearance

3 The man with a child did not have time in the evening to dig a hole. So grave was earlier (afternoon?) Excavated.

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 11:12

PeterMac wrote:
This is a repeat of what they said yesterday and IIRC the day before.
Not a mistake.
Perhaps C-R are on holiday.
Or, more likely, the money has run out and TB's State Pension is not enough for them to open the Pandora's box again,
and have them forced to admit there was no evidence of Abduction

C-R is perhaps no longer retained as money has run out, and more importantly C-R is not appropriate anymore. They can't sue people for saying Madeleine is dead hence hampering the search. Else they would have to sue Scotland Yard.
More appropriate to re-hire extradition law firm in current climate.
Am surprised the Mr. did not tell the press OG is wasting time using dogs since they are incredibly unreliable.

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 11:23

aiyoyo wrote:
Am surprised the Mr. did not tell the press OG is wasting time using dogs since they are incredibly unreliable.

I have updated the dogs piece, to include the TWO further Guilty verdicts - still no bodies found

6 The case of Guadeloupe Montano from Kane County, USA, is now complete. It is alleged that she was murdered by her husband Aurelio Montano in 1990. It may be the first time that the dog’s alerts have been used as evidence in that State. They indicate that the body lay in one position and was then moved to another. The trial took place in October 2013. No body has been found. He was convicted
7 The case of Amir Jennings, allegedly killed by her mother Zinah Jennings in 2011, involves a mother who reported her son missing. Dogs have searched the house and the car, and the trial for lying to the police about what happened is pending. No body has been found. Zinah Jennings was convicted on a charge of unlawful conduct toward a child,

by jeanmonroe 30.05.14 11:37

Several officers examined the area on foot and by car on Wednesday after driving to the Algarve resort from their Faro base an hour away.

Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo led the site survey.

It had been thought police would start their search at fenced-off land next to the Ocean Club.

But the Portuguese police were spotted going over wasteland next to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street) near the centre of the resort.

The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported.

Met Police are expected to provide sniffer dogs and ground-penetrating radar for next week’s search, expected to last four to six days.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presumeably, this site 'survey' led by Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo, was done WITHOUT 'over eagerly helpful' MET officers in attendance.

So IF the brilliant Met, 'produce' er, um, 'evidence' next week that vaguely substantiates THEIR 'theories/claims' Mr Carmo will be able to say "hmm, THAT wasn't there last week, looks like we may have another 'abduction' case to investigate!'

All imo, obviously.

by Mirage 30.05.14 11:54

jeanmonroe wrote:Several officers examined the area on foot and by car on Wednesday after driving to the Algarve resort from their Faro base an hour away.

Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo led the site survey.

It had been thought police would start their search at fenced-off land next to the Ocean Club.

But the Portuguese police were spotted going over wasteland next to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street) near the centre of the resort.

The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported.

Met Police are expected to provide sniffer dogs and ground-penetrating radar for next week’s search, expected to last four to six days.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presumeably, this site 'survey' led by Faro police chief Luis Mota Carmo, was done WITHOUT 'over eagerly helpful' MET officers in attendance.

So IF the brilliant Met, 'produce' er, um, 'evidence' next week that vaguely substantiates THEIR 'theories/claims' Mr Carmo will be able to say "hmm, THAT wasn't there last week, looks like we may have another 'abduction' case to investigate!'

All imo, obviously.

Or, as the old saying goes: Once bitten, twice shy.

Or, put another way; Lessons learned and actioned.

by brixham 30.05.14 12:42

"The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported."

The Portuguese media never reported this unless they don't realise its the Atlantic!!!

by Lance De Boils 30.05.14 12:49

There is a fairly large patch of land, immediately North of the cemetery, which looks like it's been fairly extensively dug over. According to Google Maps.
Can someone put a pic of it here?

eta: In fact it's quite interesting to compare Google Map with Street View. There are a few patches of land which have been dug over and I can see at least one new villa that's been built. (Or demolished if the dates are the other way round!)

by beijos 30.05.14 13:18

Lance De Boils wrote:There is a fairly large patch of land, immediately North of the cemetery, which looks like it's been fairly extensively dug over. According to Google Maps.
Can someone put a pic of it here?

eta: In fact it's quite interesting to compare Google Map with Street View. There are a few patches of land which have been dug over and I can see at least one new villa that's been built. (Or demolished if the dates are the other way round!)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />" />" />

by Guest 30.05.14 13:26

brixham wrote:
"The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported."

The Portuguese media never reported this unless they don't realise its the Atlantic!!!

It's OK, the Mirror ran as story just last night about a British woman being stabbed in Albufeira,in Spain.

by Lance De Boils 30.05.14 13:36

Thanks, beijos. Can you do an aerial view of it, though, please - it shows the dug over land much better.

Perhaps things had been found prior to these digs being announced? Maybe.

by Mirage 30.05.14 13:37

Lance De Boils wrote:There is a fairly large patch of land, immediately North of the cemetery, which looks like it's been fairly extensively dug over. According to Google Maps.
Can someone put a pic of it here?

eta: In fact it's quite interesting to compare Google Map with Street View. There are a few patches of land which have been dug over and I can see at least one new villa that's been built. (Or demolished if the dates are the other way round!)

MO's "exploring" run with KH when he didn't like running comes to mind. And searching along Rua da cemeteria the next night.

by Mirage 30.05.14 13:44

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
brixham wrote:
"The large area of scrubland overlooking the Med is the only site British police have permission to search, Portuguese media reported."

The Portuguese media never reported this unless they don't realise its the Atlantic!!!

It's OK, the Mirror ran as story just last night about a British woman being stabbed in Albufeira,in Spain.

Sounds like the McCann School of Geography to me. He's evidently never heard of the Pillars of Hercules. Probably thinks they're a legal loophole in the extradition process.

by **Nina** 30.05.14 13:50

beijos wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:There is a fairly large patch of land, immediately North of the cemetery, which looks like it's been fairly extensively dug over. According to Google Maps.
Can someone put a pic of it here?

eta: In fact it's quite interesting to compare Google Map with Street View. There are a few patches of land which have been dug over and I can see at least one new villa that's been built. (Or demolished if the dates are the other way round!)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />" />" />

Is that last photograph the cemetery?

by jeanmonroe 30.05.14 14:15

snipped:

Stop Press!
Apparently Kate and Gerry McCann won't be at the digging sites. A pal says "they may not be present but they'll be checking every half an hour."
--------------------------------------------------------------
At a Met police 'dig' site, possibly next week.

Phone call (from 'someone' in the UK)

ring, ring.

"someone": "I wanna speak to Macpoodle"

Surf: "Andy, it's for you, i think it's her Majesty"

Andy: "Bugger, i've only got two more turrets to do to complete me sand castle of SY"

"someone": "get Macpoodle on this phone, right NOW!"

"Andy here, your Highness"

"someone": "I told you, BY the big rock, not BUY a stick of rock!"

Andy: "sorry, SORRY, your Highness, you won't tell Bernie, will you?"

"someone": "hmm, ok, but just hurry up and find those replica pj's i put there, when i quietly visited PDL, just over a year ago. I'll call back in half an hour. By the way, I'm reversing the charges for this call so my Great Bitish taxpayers will pay for it. Pull your finger out, Macpoodle, i've got a zlebrity charidy run to do in an hours time. and i need to be papped looking suitably tearful"

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 14:31

Nina wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Is that last photograph the cemetery?[/quote]

Dunno.

But the cemetery (freaky coincidence the name) road area was mentioned in the T7's (off the cuff can't remember which member) interview.

It looks like the type of swampy area one can hide a body provided no dogs are inside the house next to it, or the dogs would go berserk at the odour of dead body.

by beijos 30.05.14 14:39

aiyoyo wrote:
Nina wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />
Is that last photograph the cemetery?

Dunno.

But the cemetery (freaky coincidence the name) road area was mentioned in the T7's (off the cuff can't remember which member) interview.

It looks like the type of swampy area one can hide a body provided no dogs are inside the house next to it, or the dogs would go berserk at the odour of dead body.

[/quote]
That is the back of the cemetery taken from the waste ground....you can see there is quite a lot of rubble, reducing the wall height to about 2 feet (from 6 feet)

by Mirage 30.05.14 14:47

aiyoyo wrote:
Nina wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />
Is that last photograph the cemetery?

Dunno.

But the cemetery (freaky coincidence the name) road area was mentioned in the T7's (off the cuff can't remember which member) interview.

It looks like the type of swampy area one can hide a body provided no dogs are inside the house next to it, or the dogs would go berserk at the odour of dead body.[/quote]

It was MO, aiyoyo, at Leics rog 2008
-----------------------------------------------------

4078 "Okay. So, by the Wednesday then, Rachael was pretty much confined to the apartment, if you like?"

Reply "Yeah".

4078 "And do you remember what you did that day?"

Reply "Erm, I remember I went running with Kate at lunchtime, she's quite a good runner, and we went out on the road all the way up to the main junc... erm, the sort of main road where you access Praia da Luz from and then back".

4078 "What sort of distance would that be?"

Reply "Erm, yeah, I think it'd be about three or four miles, maybe each way".

4078 "And you run, do you often run?"

Reply "Erm, no, I don't like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it's a bit warmer and it's not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it's kind of Californian".

4078 "In your own mind, yeah".

Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she's quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it's sort of unusual and you're sort of exploring a bit".

4078 "And how did..."

Reply "I can't remember how that came about".

4078 "That is what I was going to ask".

Reply "Yeah, erm, it may have been that, because I think Kate might have run most days, because she was quite a keen runner, and it may just be that either I thought I'd go for a run and she was already changed, or I was changed and, or Gerry might have said that, erm, I'm speculating, it may just have been coincidence that we both got into running gear and then decided to run together".

4078 "But you went on this route and are saying you found it quite hard to keep up?"

Reply "Yeah, well, yeah, she's quite a good runner".

--------------------------------
AND LATER IN THE ROG HE RECOUNTS HIS SEARCHING ACTIVITIES OF CIRCA 36 HOURS LATER:

And then, erm, after that we did more headless running around, checked on G****, erm, you know, at times we were sort of like crossing each other, there was Dave, and running on my own, and sort of the other way, and I then went out on the coast road a bit further down, erm, I don't know what we thought we could do, but it was just better than being close to them and being there, erm, and so we ran out on that, I think this road unfortunately is called, erm, which road is it, Cemetery Road I think it's called, I seem to remember noticing it because it seemed like a horrible, I think it’s this bit here".

4078 "It covers quite a lot of area".

Reply "You're basically out on, I think this is Cemetery Road or one of these roads and it just takes you out down the coast and there's lots of new build sort of resorts going up".

4078 "And all the areas that made a search, with hindsight or at the time, there was nothing that you can think of that might be relevant to?"

Reply "No, because as you went on you'd meet other groups, there was Nathan, one of the waterfront people, who managed the waterfront, who we'd met previous on a MARK WARNER holiday, so, you know, you'd sort of cross paths with people who were sort of searching and then, you know, it'd get deserted and there were dogs barking at you as you sort of wandered around, because some of the apartments were occupied and some were still being built, so there was a kind of a bit of, a sort of a lonely sort of isolated place, but, you know, it was all very sort of close, and there was nothing, you know, looking for sort of like funny parked cars or, erm, you know, anything really that seemed a bit odd".

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 14:55

Plan showing the Cemetery on Cemetery Road, and the triangle of land behind - to the North

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Close up showing cemetery niches

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Close up showing hard stoney packed ground. NOT swampy - sorry !

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

View showng how IDEAL it is for digging a hole with a JCB or a Kango hammer, totally unnoticed by neighbours, passing police patrols, passing cyclists, motorists, dog walkers, ex-pats . . . !
Just the place for a Snark

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 14:58

And No. I don't believe that they are going to dig there. They just want us to believe that they are going to dig there.

by jeanmonroe 30.05.14 15:00

Maybe the 'carrier' decided to stop there for a rest, as his achilles 'injury' had started to 'play up',.......AGAIN!

by beijos 30.05.14 15:06

More pics of the cemetery here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 15:08

PeterMac wrote:And No. I don't believe that they are going to dig there. They just want us to believe that they are going to dig there.

I don't too.

It's a built up area, too many surrounding apartment blocks, and no trees to hide digging activity, not to mention difficult rocky ground.

by **PeterMac** 30.05.14 15:09

Perhaps we are misunderstanding what is going on.

Perhaps they are searching for something more intangible,
Forensic traces of decency
Some last threads of conscience
A tiny particle of dignity, or failing that, of virtue,

They may be using the latest GPC - a ground penetrating conscience detector
looking for any last remnant of moral sense or standards,
a clue to any values and principles once held
any remains of ethics and beliefs;
and any relics of compunction, scruples, or qualms.

by russiandoll 30.05.14 15:16

Have been studying maps of areas not too far from PdL and noticed that there is a nature reserve

by aiyoyo 30.05.14 15:18

Mirage wrote: Thanks mirage, my comments in red

.
It was MO, aiyoyo, at Leics rog 2008
-----------------------------------------------------

4078 "Okay. So, by the Wednesday then, Rachael was pretty much confined to the apartment, if you like?"

Reply "Yeah".

4078 "And do you remember what you did that day?"

Reply "Erm, I remember I went running with Kate at lunchtime, she's quite a good runner, and we went out on the road all the way up to the main junc... erm, the sort of main road where you access Praia da Luz from and then back".

4078 "What sort of distance would that be?"

Reply "Erm, yeah, I think it'd be about three or four miles, maybe each way".

4078 "And you run, do you often run?"

Reply "Erm, no, I don't like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it's a bit warmer and it's not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it's kind of Californian".

4078 "In your own mind, yeah".

Reply "yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she's quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it's sort of unusual and you're sort of exploring a bit".

"Woke up" - What a strange thing to say !

4078 "And how did..."

Reply "I can't remember how that came about".

4078 "That is what I was going to ask".

Reply "Yeah, erm, it may have been that, because I think Kate might have run most days, because she was quite a keen runner, and it may just be that either I thought I'd go for a run and she was already changed, or I was changed and, or Gerry might have said that, erm, I'm speculating, it may just have been coincidence that we both got into running gear and then decided to run together".

"Speculuating " again, what a strange thing to say !
Why would he say that? Can he not remember how he ended up doing a run with Kate?

4078 "But you went on this route and are saying you found it quite hard to keep up?"

Reply "Yeah, well, yeah, she's quite a good runner".

--------------------------------
AND LATER IN THE ROG HE RECOUNTS HIS SEARCHING ACTIVITIES OF CIRCA 36 HOURS LATER:

And then, erm, after that we did more headless running around, checked on G****, erm, you know, at times we were sort of like crossing each other, there was Dave, and running on my own, and sort of the other way, and I then went out on the coast road a bit further down, erm, I don't know what we thought we could do, but it was just better than being close to them and being there, erm, and so we ran out on that, I think this road unfortunately is called, erm, which road is it, Cemetery Road I think it's called, I seem to remember noticing it because it seemed like a horrible, I think it’s this bit here".

4078 "It covers quite a lot of area".

Reply "You're basically out on, I think this is Cemetery Road or one of these roads and it just takes you out down the coast and there's lots of new build sort of resorts going up".

4078 "And all the areas that made a search, with hindsight or at the time, there was nothing that you can think of that might be relevant to?"

Reply "No, because as you went on you'd meet other groups, there was Nathan, one of the waterfront people, who managed the waterfront, who we'd met previous on a MARK WARNER holiday, so, you know, you'd sort of cross paths with people who were sort of searching and then, you know, it'd get deserted and there were dogs barking at you as you sort of wandered around, because some of the apartments were occupied and some were still being built, so there was a kind of a bit of, a sort of a lonely sort of isolated place, but, you know, it was all very sort of close, and there was nothing, you know, looking for sort of like funny parked cars or, erm, you know, anything really that seemed a bit odd".