Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

by Hicks 05.05.14 15:14

Cristobell wrote:
Hicks wrote:I have to say that I'm a little excited by this news. IMO SY would not go to PDL and randomly start digging up areas around the OC, especially at the start of the holiday season, just for the hell of it, they could have done it much earlier.
I wonder if the Crimewatch appeal really did bring forward some new leads. There must have been outside help or perhaps someone in the McCann's inner circle has given new info. I thought Kate looked a bit rattled when she was interviewed by Fiona Bruce.

Smithman was heading to the beach wasn't he!
Yes, I think it is a major development too. Digging is digging and there really isn't way it can be spun. They can hardly say they are looking for a lost earring or a contact lens. As someone said earlier, the areas they are going to dig must have been specifically pointed out to them by someone, and it must be someone credible as obtaining permission to commence major landworks in a foreign country would not be easy to come by.

This is being reported as SY wanting to commence digging, but this doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't it far more likely that the PJ would start digging? It could be that SY (the UK) are financing the dig and its being reported as their operation? As Gerry pointed out the other day, from a cost perspective, the PJ would be better off working with SY.

SY will be taking out experts using the latest in ground radar, so pretty high tech stuff that maybe is not available in Portugal.
I believe that Madeleine was taken out to sea by dingy or small boat, however, there must be objects still remaining yet to be found. Off the top of my head......toothbrush, Madeleine's clothes, pink blanket , blue sports bag, maybe the clothes GM was wearing that night.

I would bet that the PJ and SY have been working very closely together behind the scenes. The admission by SY that there is perhaps a body to be found highlights this.

by TheTruthWillOut 05.05.14 15:25

Listening to that the tabloid press don't seem to have a clue what SY/PJ are up to and are coming across as desperate for info. Just like Mr and Mrs. Maybe explains all these ridiculous front page headlines the last few months.

by mouse 05.05.14 15:28

After reading the latest - well, I gotta say that I'm back to where I was before. All hopes dashed that this is a movement in the right direction. Looks to me from this latest report that they (I believe that means SY & MCs) are putting this story out about the dig - knowing full well that they will not be permitted to do so - thereby making it appear that the nasty PJ is hindering SY's investigation.

The McCanns and their frustration again!!!! Like they are leading this investigation??? They're really starting to get my blood pressure up! That and the fact that SY do not come out and say/confirm that it is their true intention to dig. Please, you would think that SY with all the resources and media spotlight intervews they have done of late - would not want to confuse the public with untrue info....Would they?....

People of Portugal - I really feel for you.

by Newintown 05.05.14 15:32

Enid O'Dowd wrote:
Woofer wrote:Just listened to the Pat Kenny slot at
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Interviewing Russell Myers of the Daily Mirror. Russell Myers a pro McCann obviously - casting accusations against the PJ and not seeming to believe Euclides Monteiro`s widow. Said digging will commence in the next fortnight in 2 areas very close to apartment 5A, the beach, 2 areas of grassland and also said there was a road re-laid in 2007 that would be examined using latest ground radar technology. Most definitely a follower of the McCann abduction story - though I wouldn`t say Pat Kenny was.

I had to calm down after listening to this.

I was disappointed that Pat Kenny a very experienced journalist/presenter used the word 'abduction' rather than disappearance. He let Mr Myers away with unsubstantiated comments about the lack of thoroughness of the Portuguese police from the start and then did not challenge him when he said the Portuguese police had been dragging their heels re permission to dig and now the main tourist season approached.

Anyone who would like to enlighten Mr Myers about the case can contact him at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was absolutely shocked when I listened to it too. It was one of the most blatant pro McCann but diss the PJ interviews I've ever heard, although I must say that Russell Myers didn't seem too happy with what he was saying, his voice was very shaky as if he'd been forced to say the words but didn't really believe them.

I am getting very frustrated with all the journos coming out against the PJ but are licking the feet of the McCanns, it's as though the journos have been paid huge bonuses to diss the PJ at every opportunity, now I wonder who may have come up with that idea.

by MarleneP 05.05.14 15:38

Thank you mouse.
It's all THEATRE!
When I read here "a road did HAS BEEN relayed in 2007" I have to laugh out loud! I remember well the first forums with all the photos, which were analyzed by users. Exactly this road that was torn ...
We turn for 7 years in a circle.

RUSSELL MYERS: I think specifically they’re looking at 3 areas and this is what we are hearing in today’s story, looking 3 areas which are planned for major excavation. Now these were 2 areas very close to the apartment at the Ocean Club where Madeleine and her parents had been staying in 2007. There’s also an area of beach that has been actually reworked since 2004. Also there is two main areas of grassland very nearby and a road that has been relayed in 2007 very very soon after Madeleine went missing. So these are the areas that they want to revisit and essentially the British police think that Portuguese Police authorities hadn’t paid enough attention to these areas and that is why they want to go back to them.

by Guest 05.05.14 15:48

I got so annoyed at the mis-information and undermining of the Portuguese investigation, I had to stop listening.
But not before he said this:
" Said digging will commence in the next fortnight in 2 areas very close to apartment 5A, the beach, 2 areas of grassland and also said there was a road re-laid in 2007 that would be examined using latest ground radar technology. "
And the image of GM driving past the OC when Eddie and Keela were doing their searches sprang into mind.
He was worried they were going to find something that day, and more than just scents in my opinion.

I really hope it's true that either SY or PJ will be doing searches, it's the only way forward.

by phil_burton 05.05.14 15:50

No idea which direction this is all heading, I can see both sides of the argument, whether it be actual developments or just another stage in the whitewash process.

It does certainly feel that there has been a change in what is being fed to the press. In the last 6 months we've gone from abduction theories of all sorts and denial that M died, to what we're seeing now which is close to acceptance she's dead.

The question is, why are team Mccann now peddling this line instead of the 'adopted by gypsies' theory, 'stolen by pedos' or anything just as ludicrous?

IMO it is either that a death certificate on the horizon and the Grange need to be seen as proactive and working in parallel with the PJ (a dig would fit in with this, even if they find nothing).

Or this is an actual development by the PJ and SY are just tagging along.

Personally, I think this is just more empty spin. They've had 7 years to dig, and I very much doubt anything new has come to light in the last 3 years that has prompted this.

by Newintown 05.05.14 15:58

phil_burton wrote:No idea which direction this is all heading, I can see both sides of the argument, whether it be actual developments or just another stage in the whitewash process.

It does certainly feel that there has been a change in what is being fed to the press. In the last 6 months we've gone from abduction theories of all sorts and denial that M died, to what we're seeing now which is close to acceptance she's dead.

The question is, why are team Mccann now peddling this line instead of the 'adopted by gypsies' theory, 'stolen by pedos' or anything just as ludicrous?

IMO it is either that a death certificate on the horizon and the Grange need to be seen as proactive and working in parallel with the PJ (a dig would fit in with this, even if they find nothing).

Or this is an actual development by the PJ and SY are just tagging along.

Personally, I think this is just more empty spin. They've had 7 years to dig, and I very much doubt anything new has come to light in the last 3 years that has prompted this.

Unless someone's cracked under the pressure of keeping a secret (about an incident they weren't really responsible for but got dragged into unwittingly) for the past 7 years and has co-operated with the PJ and SY.

As AG and AR (?) have said that loyalties change over time; perhaps someone has come to their senses and realised that doing right for Madeleine is more important than saving their own skin.

by Guest 05.05.14 15:59

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...or is Pat Brown right???

"...I was particularly interested in the activities of the McCann in the days before the Huelva trip [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]in an area to the west of Praia da Luz along the road to Budens, (estre EN125). I also found it interesting that the day he was to leave for Huelva, he was not feeling well, having a bit of an upset stomach. This led me to theorize he could have used that day to move the body or to recover from moving it the day before. ..."

Phone pings
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by **PeterMac** 05.05.14 16:00

Just for the sake of completeness,
This is from an email from an ex-pat who lives in PdL (and who has provided vital documentary evidence which has been referred to Grange, PJ and Dr GA)
"over period Jan to July 2007 showing the progress of the major street refurbishment of Luz,"

BUT
IF they are going to start digging
and IF they think that digging will reveal something
THEN the burial of that something, or those somethings MUST have taken place
either considerably BEFORE 9.30 - 10pm 3/5/7
OR considerably AFTER - measured in weeks or months

BECAUSE from 10 and a bit pm 3/5/7 and for many weeks and months afterwards the place was crawling with Police and journalists, camera crews, photographers, and other people actually physically searching.
SO
Logically
IF Madeleine's body, or indeed anything associated with her is discovered
THEN
this becomes proof that she was dead BEFORE the evening of 3/5/7

Anything buried considerably AFTER, is more likely to have been buried well outside a significant radius, - 10 miles might be a good start.
Or have I missed a step ?

No wonder G&K look worried. They may have worked this out.

by ChippyM 05.05.14 16:15

I am in 2 minds about this latest 'leak', either SY are going to dig for the sake of it and then say 'we tried and we found nuffink guv'... ala an attempt at winding the whole case up.... Or they (and quite possibly the PJ) are going to dig because they know for sure that there is something there.

The second scenario would fit with what Peter Mac has posted above, which has always been my suspicion.

by phil_burton 05.05.14 16:19

Going with the theory that this dig is actually happening, then there absolutely must be something solid to go on, and mentioning the road that has been relaid since 2007 is probably a red herring thrown in there by the press, desperate to appear knowledgable about the case.

I can't see that anyone has cracked, it's been too long, the heat has died down.

I really don't see any reason to believe this anymore than any of the other tripe written in the papers over the last 3 years. I am still amazed that this farce continues

by phil_burton 05.05.14 16:25

And as for Gerry's "find the body and prove we killed her"...I don't read that as him saying "you'll never find it, it's hidden that well/destroyed"

I read it as a challenge to the investigators, hinting that it's findable, that he knows something we don't, almost a sneering willingness to be caught for his crime.

by **PeterMac** 05.05.14 16:34

And of course yet another thing the whole idea of "digging" proves is that Scotland Yard believe (or know know )she was dead before
10pm. 3/5/7
since there isn't time in anyone's "Window of opportunity' to dig a grave as well as administer sedation and climb out and do all the other things necessary.

and coming BACK to PdL to dig it at a later stage is beyond even the stupidity of McMitchell to suggest.

by noddy100 05.05.14 16:39

PeterMac wrote:And of course yet another thing the whole idea of "digging" proves is that Scotland Yard believe (or know know )she was dead before
10pm. 3/5/7
since there isn't time in anyone's "Window of opportunity' to dig a grave as well as administer sedation and climb out and do all the other things necessary.

and coming BACK to PdL to dig it at a later stage is beyond even the stupidity of McMitchell to suggest.

Yes this is definitely indicating burial before police/media were called so much earlier
Bt this lot can spin anything so I hope Portugal don't get walked over

by Cristobell 05.05.14 16:42

phil_burton wrote:And as for Gerry's "find the body and prove we killed her"...I don't read that as him saying "you'll never find it, it's hidden that well/destroyed"

I read it as a challenge to the investigators, hinting that it's findable, that he knows something we don't, almost a sneering willingness to be caught for his crime.

There are occasions where I do think Gerry believes he is playing a game. The inappropriate smirks, the highly inappropriate laughing at the age progression press conference and the sheer glee on his face as he posed outside the Whitehouse. He has from the outset been taunting the Portuguese police with his mantra 'there is no evidence' and with added menace for Sandra F, he added 'you heard that, didn't you'.

He has behaved like one of those annoying people who get Mayfair and Park Lane in the early stages of Monopoly, crazed with power, his ideas of a Madeleine Day concert with Elton John and McCann Corporation big enough to take over Microsoft have all disappeared, and the odds on him winning the National, would be shorter than the odds on He and She being knighted for services to charitable funds.

by Newintown 05.05.14 16:47

phil_burton wrote:Going with the theory that this dig is actually happening, then there absolutely must be something solid to go on, and mentioning the road that has been relaid since 2007 is probably a red herring thrown in there by the press, desperate to appear knowledgable about the case.

I can't see that anyone has cracked, it's been too long, the heat has died down.

I really don't see any reason to believe this anymore than any of the other tripe written in the papers over the last 3 years. I am still amazed that this farce continues

The Tapas lot (not to mention their wider family/friends/work colleagues) have to live with this 24/7 in their every day lives and in their work lives, seeing and reading the comments on the internet, on twitter, on facebook. The pressure must be enormous for them to live an ordinary existence now they've all been implicated in some way to the disappearance of Madeleine.

by Cristobell 05.05.14 16:48

PeterMac wrote:And of course yet another thing the whole idea of "digging" proves is that Scotland Yard believe (or know know )she was dead before
10pm. 3/5/7
since there isn't time in anyone's "Window of opportunity' to dig a grave as well as administer sedation and climb out and do all the other things necessary.

and coming BACK to PdL to dig it at a later stage is beyond even the stupidity of McMitchell to suggest.

Whilst I agree with part one of your theory Petermac, I am unsure about the rest. She must indeed have been dead and removed from the apartment before 10pm on 3rd May. However, the cadaver dog alerted to the car the McCanns hired 3 weeks later. If she had been put in a permanent place of rest prior to 3rd May - and it sounds pretty permanent, they are supposed to be using major digging equipment, then how do we explain the cadaver smell in the car?

by **tigger** 05.05.14 16:57

This isn"t just a way to justify a free holiday? SY team carrying their buckets and spades onto the plane?

Only thing I can think of is that they've been told the location and will link it to a conveniently dead paedo or two.
Body found, Mcs exonerated. Bad news for the Ltd. Co.

splat

Was that single ILOR to Portugal to do with allowing this latest circus act?

by **PeterMac** 05.05.14 17:03

Cristobell wrote:
Whilst I agree with part one of your theory Petermac, I am unsure about the rest. She must indeed have been dead and removed from the apartment before 10pm on 3rd May. However, the cadaver dog alerted to the car the McCanns hired 3 weeks later. If she had been put in a permanent place of rest prior to 3rd May - and it sounds pretty permanent, they are supposed to be using major digging equipment, then how do we explain the cadaver smell in the car ?

It depends where they are going to dig !

by Newintown 05.05.14 17:10

Thinking about the whole thing, do we know where the original story came from though, I know one story was from from Tracey Kandohla (her from Rothley) and Russell Myers, the pro McCann supporter from the Mirror.

Could it just be a huge distraction to point away from the libel trial that is to resume again now that GA has the information he's been seeking re the Ward of Court and other information he may have requested and gained from the UK regarding Madeleine. smilie

by ultimaThule 05.05.14 17:13

It seems that 1 ILOR fits all, tigger - dead Brit paedo and assorted other paedos, binman, smellyman, and random digging at unspecified sites at any hour of the day or night.

If NSY can achieve all of this for the cost of a stamp, I wonder how much the McCanns could have progressed their search if they'd sent a letter to the PJ asking for the investigation to be taken off the shelf? smilie

by TheTruthWillOut 05.05.14 17:14

Cristobell wrote:
PeterMac wrote:And of course yet another thing the whole idea of "digging" proves is that Scotland Yard believe (or know know )she was dead before
10pm. 3/5/7
since there isn't time in anyone's "Window of opportunity' to dig a grave as well as administer sedation and climb out and do all the other things necessary.

and coming BACK to PdL to dig it at a later stage is beyond even the stupidity of McMitchell to suggest.
Whilst I agree with part one of your theory Petermac, I am unsure about the rest. She must indeed have been dead and removed from the apartment before 10pm on 3rd May. However, the cadaver dog alerted to the car the McCanns hired 3 weeks later. If she had been put in a permanent place of rest prior to 3rd May - and it sounds pretty permanent, they are supposed to be using major digging equipment, then how do we explain the cadaver smell in the car?

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be disposed of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.

by notlongnow 05.05.14 17:19

Newintown wrote:Thinking about the whole thing, do we know where the original story came from though, I know one story was from from Tracey Kandohla (her from Rothley) and Russell Myers, the pro McCann supporter from the Mirror.

Could it just be a huge distraction to point away from the libel trial that is to resume again now that GA has the information he's been seeking re the Ward of Court and other information he may have requested and gained from the UK regarding Madeleine.

Surely if these stories are made up SY should be nicking people for perverting justice whilst investigating there motives for these smokescreens.

by Newintown 05.05.14 17:26

notlongnow wrote:
Newintown wrote:Thinking about the whole thing, do we know where the original story came from though, I know one story was from from Tracey Kandohla (her from Rothley) and Russell Myers, the pro McCann supporter from the Mirror.

Could it just be a huge distraction to point away from the libel trial that is to resume again now that GA has the information he's been seeking re the Ward of Court and other information he may have requested and gained from the UK regarding Madeleine.

Surely if these stories are made up SY should be nicking people for perverting justice whilst investigating there motives for these smokescreens.

There's been numerous stories printed in the press over the past few years regarding supposed abductors, charity workers, white van men, cleaners, etc etc and they've all come to nothing in the end. It's as it they never existed in the first place, nothing more has been said about them.

The McCanns and their PR people don't miss a trick when it comes to burying bad news, and I would think them losing the libel trial is VERY BAD NEWS.

by notlongnow 05.05.14 17:31

Newintown wrote:
notlongnow wrote:
Newintown wrote:Thinking about the whole thing, do we know where the original story came from though, I know one story was from from Tracey Kandohla (her from Rothley) and Russell Myers, the pro McCann supporter from the Mirror.

Could it just be a huge distraction to point away from the libel trial that is to resume again now that GA has the information he's been seeking re the Ward of Court and other information he may have requested and gained from the UK regarding Madeleine.

Surely if these stories are made up SY should be nicking people for perverting justice whilst investigating there motives for these smokescreens.

There's been numerous stories printed in the press over the past few years regarding supposed abductors, charity workers, white van men, cleaners, etc etc and they've all come to nothing in the end. It's as it they never existed in the first place, nothing more has been said about them.

The McCanns and their PR people don't miss a trick when it comes to burying bad news, and I would think them losing the libel trial is VERY BAD NEWS.

Indeed,why know charges though?
Surely SY should be interested in these peoples motives.

The media motives are obvious,but the sources they are coming from must be worth investigating.

by Newintown 05.05.14 17:40

notlongnow wrote:
Newintown wrote:
notlongnow wrote:
Newintown wrote:Thinking about the whole thing, do we know where the original story came from though, I know one story was from from Tracey Kandohla (her from Rothley) and Russell Myers, the pro McCann supporter from the Mirror.

Could it just be a huge distraction to point away from the libel trial that is to resume again now that GA has the information he's been seeking re the Ward of Court and other information he may have requested and gained from the UK regarding Madeleine.

Surely if these stories are made up SY should be nicking people for perverting justice whilst investigating there motives for these smokescreens.

There's been numerous stories printed in the press over the past few years regarding supposed abductors, charity workers, white van men, cleaners, etc etc and they've all come to nothing in the end. It's as it they never existed in the first place, nothing more has been said about them.

The McCanns and their PR people don't miss a trick when it comes to burying bad news, and I would think them losing the libel trial is VERY BAD NEWS.
Indeed,why know charges though?
Surely SY should be interested in these peoples motives.

The media motives are obvious,but the sources they are coming from must be worth investigating.

I'm only guessing but maybe the police/MET/SY are used to people trying to point their investigations into all directions away from where they should be investigating and they just ignore them all and are filed under "time wasters".

It depends where the stories of the van men, cleaners, charity workers etc have come from. Maybe there is no direct link to anyone but have just been stories which have appeared in the press under a "source close to the McCanns". If SY pursue them I doubt if anyone would put their hands up to actually knowing who the "source" is.

by Guest 05.05.14 17:41

TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be disposed of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.

Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her, hidden somewhere then transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

by Newintown 05.05.14 17:45

Andrew77R wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be disposed of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her. Hidden somewhere and transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I can't remember the exact details at this precise moment but didn't GA say that there was evidence of a body having been thawed out that was detected in the Scenic. Perhaps someone who has a better memory than myself can put us straight on that.

by margaret 05.05.14 17:50

phil_burton wrote:Going with the theory that this dig is actually happening, then there absolutely must be something solid to go on,

I can't see that anyone has cracked, it's been too long, the heat has died down.

But we don't know what's been going on really, and remember there was talk of a tapas member ready to spill the beans way back.

What l really am wondering about is WHY the Mccanns have been talking that Maddie may be dead this week. Isn't the best defence for them to deny Maddie could be dead then any ( potential ) body found would be a total shock?

The only reason loft them to announce this l can think of is their rampant narcissism. It makes no sense otherwise.