Re: 3 Prime Suspects Identified

by canada12 12.01.14 11:39

Woofer wrote:
tiny wrote:
bobby18 wrote:
debs wrote:do burglars of holiday apartments really operate in threes? and wouldn't it make them a bit visible?
2 in the apartment, 1 being a lookout is possible, I would say.

P.S. I am not a burglar!

Why would you take a dead child

Maybe because they were the agents requested to do so.

This has occurred to me also. IMO Gerry was in quick need of someone to dispose of M's body. He asked around, and through some "connections" was able to secure the services of three individuals who could get the job done?

by Woofer 12.01.14 11:50

canada12 wrote:
Woofer wrote:
tiny wrote:
bobby18 wrote:
debs wrote:do burglars of holiday apartments really operate in threes? and wouldn't it make them a bit visible?
2 in the apartment, 1 being a lookout is possible, I would say.

P.S. I am not a burglar!

Why would you take a dead child

Maybe because they were the agents requested to do so.

This has occurred to me also. IMO Gerry was in quick need of someone to dispose of M's body. He asked around, and through some "connections" was able to secure the services of three individuals who could get the job done?

Hi canada12 - I wonder if its an agency he already knew about and was in contact with and knew they would be monitoring the apartments. Something went wrong so the agency men had to remove MBM and they have never told him where she is.

by bobby18 12.01.14 11:57

Cristobell wrote:I'm struggling to understand how SY can identify 3 suspects in PDL, from their base in central London. They have no knowledge of the language, the area or the population. To identify petty criminals operating in the area, they would need the co-operation of the local underworld, tip offs etc, from those on the periphery of society.

If we imagine the crime having occurred in a British seaside town, we can begin to see the major obstacles faced by SY. Would a team of Portuguese detectives be able to operate effectively in Butlins Skegness, for example?

Hi

As in my original post, if PJ and SY are working together, PJ could have fed info to SY to gain credibility with the negative MSM. For it to look like an SY finding only.

Nothing directly from PJ will never have credibility amongst mainstream public in UK due to press coverage.

Again, just a potential theory and fully accept that other members have FAR more knowledge in case thanks. Like all members I'm sure, wejust want this case resolved, with the true perpetrators brought to justice, whoever they maybe.

by canada12 12.01.14 12:00

Woofer wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Woofer wrote:
tiny wrote:
bobby18 wrote:
debs wrote:do burglars of holiday apartments really operate in threes? and wouldn't it make them a bit visible?
2 in the apartment, 1 being a lookout is possible, I would say.

P.S. I am not a burglar!

Why would you take a dead child

Maybe because they were the agents requested to do so.

This has occurred to me also. IMO Gerry was in quick need of someone to dispose of M's body. He asked around, and through some "connections" was able to secure the services of three individuals who could get the job done?

Hi canada12 - I wonder if its an agency he already knew about and was in contact with and knew they would be monitoring the apartments. Something went wrong so the agency men had to remove MBM and they have never told him where she is.

Not sure what you mean by an agency... I was just thinking that three local "burglars" could be part of a shady underworld known to people that IMO Gerry might have consulted in a hurry for help. And that SY might have tracked them down and now wishes to have a quiet word with them.

by Woofer 12.01.14 12:07

canada12 wrote:
Woofer wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Woofer wrote:

Why would you take a dead child

Maybe because they were the agents requested to do so.

This has occurred to me also. IMO Gerry was in quick need of someone to dispose of M's body. He asked around, and through some "connections" was able to secure the services of three individuals who could get the job done?

Hi canada12 - I wonder if its an agency he already knew about and was in contact with and knew they would be monitoring the apartments. Something went wrong so the agency men had to remove MBM and they have never told him where she is.

Not sure what you mean by an agency... I was just thinking that three local "burglars" could be part of a shady underworld known to people that IMO Gerry might have consulted in a hurry for help. And that SY might have tracked them down and now wishes to have a quiet word with them.

Sorry canada - I don`t know how else to refer to it - maybe some sort of secret service, professionals (whom GM has connections with). Not merely burglars.

by **tigger** 12.01.14 12:12

In that case it would have been permanent and highly unlikely that the hire car would be involved.
Look at the events around the 10th June.

Imo the 3 burglars are hogwash. Nothing to do with finding or disposing of a body.
Imo too the help in this matter came principally from Murat et all.

It's far more likely that whatever 'agents' were in place (imo after the 3rd) did not know the true story but had been instructed to facilitate and put the whole thing to bed asap. I can almost picture their dismay on realising there was no abduction and their task was made that more difficult as TM had no intention to 'put it to bed'. Quite the contrary.
Not likely that TM would tell them they'd lied, it would be one of those situations where everybody is pretending to believe the others.

It may have been two teams: one to close it down with suitable sentiments and possible subsequent status enhancement of parents. (amber alert, charity) and TM and lawyers intent on keeping the public support and generosity on the boil.
Government vs commercial interest. IMO of course.

by Jemmied_Shatter 12.01.14 12:35

Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Cristobell wrote:I'm struggling to understand how SY can identify 3 suspects in PDL, from their base in central London. They have no knowledge of the language, the area or the population. To identify petty criminals operating in the area, they would need the co-operation of the local underworld, tip offs etc, from those on the periphery of society.

If we imagine the crime having occurred in a British seaside town, we can begin to see the major obstacles faced by SY. Would a team of Portuguese detectives be able to operate effectively in Butlins Skegness, for example?

I don't believe for one minute ANY such burglars have been detected through phone records or any other means for that matter.

It is totally unverified. More likely IMO, is the recent disclosure that the investigation and review have cost the public purse 6 million quid with nothing to show for it in a time of cuts and austerity and this is merely a smokescreen to deflect public attention.

These ridiculous stories ALWAYS arise when there is a court case or other negative "vibe" going down in the direction of the McCanns, and IMO this is just another example of this tired and laughable tactic.

If you think about it, Scotland Yard have NEVER categorically stated that they KNOW Madeleine was abducted. OK so they said they would treat the review as if the "abduction" happened in GB, BUT they have still NEVER made an absolute statement to this effect.

Have to agree with this, SY have been eating up the taxpayers budget and as yet have only come up with a revelation moment eliminating a suspect who wore beige trousers carrying a child with pink pajamas. There was some talk about a person now believed dead but by any account he was of a different race but that's about all they have managed to come up with. The gormless British public have been led to believe that the PJ bungled the investigation so they expect great things from their "own" investigators. Its surely about time they were told that hte PJ discounted the SY revelation moment from the beginning knowing JT to be a lying er whatever you want to insult with.

by jeanmonroe 12.01.14 12:41

So which of these Santa's 'little helpers' SMASHED the shutter on apartment 5A as Kate McCann yelled down the phone to Jon Corner in the UK at 3am, 4th May 2007?

by Woofer 12.01.14 12:54

tigger wrote:In that case it would have been permanent and highly unlikely that the hire car would be involved.
Look at the events around the 10th June.

`Highly unlikely` - but likely if the `team`(better word than agents) wanted to tighten its grip on GM.
My opinion is formed on the idea that the team have dirt on GM and he is in their clutches (as maybe another member of TM is). Hence not there to `enjoy myself`.

Imo the 3 burglars are hogwash. Nothing to do with finding or disposing of a body.
Imo too the help in this matter came principally from Murat et all (yes and maybe also in the control of the team)

It's far more likely that whatever 'agents' were in place (imo after the 3rd) (maybe they were in place all week and TM knew it, hence feeling safe) did not know the true story but had been instructed to facilitate and put the whole thing to bed asap. I can almost picture their dismay on realising there was no abduction and their task was made that more difficult as TM had no intention to 'put it to bed'. Quite the contrary.
Not likely that TM would tell them they'd lied, it would be one of those situations where everybody is pretending to believe the others.

It may have been two teams: one to close it down with suitable sentiments and possible subsequent status enhancement of parents. (amber alert, charity) and TM and lawyers intent on keeping the public support and generosity on the boil.
Government vs commercial interest. IMO of course.

Just an opinion as well.

by **tigger** 12.01.14 13:42

Woofer wrote:
tigger wrote:In that case it would have been permanent and highly unlikely that the hire car would be involved.
Look at the events around the 10th June.

`Highly unlikely` - but likely if the `team`(better word than agents) wanted to tighten its grip on GM.
My opinion is formed on the idea that the team have dirt on GM and he is in their clutches (as maybe another member of TM is). Hence not there to `enjoy myself`.

Imo the 3 burglars are hogwash. Nothing to do with finding or disposing of a body.
Imo too the help in this matter came principally from Murat et all (yes and maybe also in the control of the team)

It's far more likely that whatever 'agents' were in place (imo after the 3rd) (maybe they were in place all week and TM knew it, hence feeling safe) did not know the true story but had been instructed to facilitate and put the whole thing to bed asap. I can almost picture their dismay on realising there was no abduction and their task was made that more difficult as TM had no intention to 'put it to bed'. Quite the contrary.
Not likely that TM would tell them they'd lied, it would be one of those situations where everybody is pretending to believe the others.

It may have been two teams: one to close it down with suitable sentiments and possible subsequent status enhancement of parents. (amber alert, charity) and TM and lawyers intent on keeping the public support and generosity on the boil.
Government vs commercial interest. IMO of course.

Just an opinion as well.

Thanks for your comments Woofer but could you make it MUCH clearer which areas you've higlighted in red and which are your comments in red. Just for clarity.

The phone records that week incidentally do not support a theory of 'agents' being in place that week.

Sometimes I think these news items are released specifically to entertain trolls and disruptors. Giving them something 'to eat' as it were.

Btw. Absolutely not saying you're one of those Woofer! winkwink

by tiny 12.01.14 13:49

jeanmonroe wrote:So which of these Santa's 'little helpers' SMASHED the shutter on apartment 5A as Kate McCann yelled down the phone to Jon Corner in the UK at 3am, 4th May 2007?

Quite

by Woofer 12.01.14 13:52

Hi Tigger - I only commented in red, except your bit about Murat which I also coloured red as I agreed.

Quote "The phone records that week incidentally do not support a theory of 'agents' being in place that week."

What - even if GM was on the phone to the agents and they to him?

P.S. Could the agents or team have connections to a certain Irish ex cop who has supported TM from the outset.

by **tigger** 12.01.14 14:12

Woofer wrote:Hi Tigger - I only commented in red, except your bit about Murat which I also coloured red as I agreed.

Quote "The phone records that week incidentally do not support a theory of 'agents' being in place that week."

What - even if GM was on the phone to the agents and they to him?

P.S. Could the agents or team have connections to a certain Irish ex cop who has supported TM from the outset.

I find these agents unnecessary distractions from the case. Had they been there during that week, the whole thing would never have hit the papers. We would never have heard of the case at all.
First they were burglars, now they've become 'agents' X files presumably.

by suep 12.01.14 14:15

A thought experiment only…
Lets suppose just for a moment that burglars DID get into apartment 5A that night.
Lets also suppose that whilst rummaging around they found MBM’s body in that cupboard, under a pile of dirty washing perhaps.
Lets imagine that the body falls out of the cupboard and in their panic they can’t get it back in because rigor mortis had now set in making it difficult. What do they do with it?
They hide it behind the sofa and dumbfounded make a swift getaway, each leaving in a different direction and later communicating by mobile phone.
Lets also imagine that prior to stumbling upon the body one of them had pocketed Gerry’s wallet complete with credit card(s).
Kate comes along to do her check, looks in the cupboard to find no Madeleine, cowering or otherwise, panics and runs over to the rest of the gang screaming words to the effect “She’s been taken!”.
They all rush back to search and soon find her behind the sofa and the original cunning plan goes ahead. However, they now know that someone out there knows their secret. And Gerry eventually discovers his wallet has been stolen…
What do they do next?

Like I said...just a thought experiment...

by **tigger** 12.01.14 14:39

- and then Gerry comes in and happily -seeing the valuables are missing and there's evidence of a burglary - blames it on the burglars.
No abduction necessary.
Rigor mortis having set in would put the death quite early in the day.

by marconi 12.01.14 14:57

Cristobell wrote:I'm struggling to understand how SY can identify 3 suspects in PDL, from their base in central London. They have no knowledge of the language, the area or the population. To identify petty criminals operating in the area, they would need the co-operation of the local underworld, tip offs etc, from those on the periphery of society.

If we imagine the crime having occurred in a British seaside town, we can begin to see the major obstacles faced by SY. Would a team of Portuguese detectives be able to operate effectively in Butlins Skegness, for example?

Cristobell, the 3 suspects were identified thorough the files, not from London, I believe. Besides it is known that there were Met officers in Algarve, helping analysing everything, not only in Belgravia.
My theory is that those 3 suspects are the left overs. On October the 14th none of the Tapas was even a person of interest. As I said before, from 38 it went to 41.
My belief: the parents plus one, who could be Payne.
The crime happened in Algarve, those suspects have to be interrogated in Algarve itself, eventually followed by a reconstution.

by MissDaisy 12.01.14 15:13

Woofer wrote:Hi Tigger - I only commented in red, except your bit about Murat which I also coloured red as I agreed.

Quote "The phone records that week incidentally do not support a theory of 'agents' being in place that week."

What - even if GM was on the phone to the agents and they to him?

P.S. Could the agents or team have connections to a certain Irish ex cop who has supported TM from the outset.

Woofer, regarding the agents and the ex cop, that has crossed my mind too. I wonder if it is possible for phones to be so highly encrypted that calls can't be traced.

by Woofer 12.01.14 15:28

tigger wrote:
Woofer wrote:Hi Tigger - I only commented in red, except your bit about Murat which I also coloured red as I agreed.

Quote "The phone records that week incidentally do not support a theory of 'agents' being in place that week."

What - even if GM was on the phone to the agents and they to him?

P.S. Could the agents or team have connections to a certain Irish ex cop who has supported TM from the outset.

I find these agents unnecessary distractions from the case. Had they been there during that week, the whole thing would never have hit the papers. We would never have heard of the case at all.
First they were burglars, now they've become 'agents' X files presumably.
_____________________________________________________________

Sorry I never watched X files tigger, but that sounds a bit far fetched. I`ll call them a group or a team if you like.

It would still have hit the papers if GM could not get his daughter`s body back. It would be the only weapon he had.

I can understand why you think it may be a distraction from your thinking, but its not to my thinking.

Anyway leave it for now - I was only suggesting who the `burglars` might be.

by NickE 12.01.14 15:38

There was a case like this here in Sweden back in 2006,the parents killed their son and told the police he had diaippeard and alot of people was searching for him.
After the mother's boyfriend found the boy dead in a bed, and the mother came to the room, the woman said that she got drunk on whiskey.
My boyfriend says he responded by trying to revive him with artificial respiration.
When this did not succeed the pair discussed how they would deal with the dead boy's body.
They kept the body in the woodshed, but packed it into the boot of the car.
After traveling around and looked for somewhere to dispose of it, they lowered the body into Lake Lovsjö south of Jönköping.
The couple reported he subsequently lost in Gothenburg in late January 2006.
They claimed then that he had disappeared from the car when they should have left him alone in the outside a shopping mall in Bäckebol Hisingen.
Many people was looking for several days after Bobby.
When he was not found took police suspicions that he had been exterminated.
The mother and her partner were arrested, and the mother admitted in police interviews was Bobby's body was found.

It took only a couple of mounth for the police to arrest the parents.

by **tigger** 12.01.14 15:51

Woofer wrote:
tigger wrote:
Woofer wrote:Hi Tigger - I only commented in red, except your bit about Murat which I also coloured red as I agreed.

Quote "The phone records that week incidentally do not support a theory of 'agents' being in place that week."

What - even if GM was on the phone to the agents and they to him?

P.S. Could the agents or team have connections to a certain Irish ex cop who has supported TM from the outset.

I find these agents unnecessary distractions from the case. Had they been there during that week, the whole thing would never have hit the papers. We would never have heard of the case at all.
First they were burglars, now they've become 'agents' X files presumably.
_____________________________________________________________

Sorry I never watched X files tigger, but that sounds a bit far fetched. I`ll call them a group or a team if you like.

It would still have hit the papers if GM could not get his daughter`s body back. It would be the only weapon he had.

I can understand why you think it may be a distraction from your thinking, but its not to my thinking.

Anyway leave it for now - I was only suggesting who the `burglars` might be.

Please can you manage to put your replies outside the box? You generally seem to manage it.

Why would they want the body back? I thought the whole point of these 'agents' being on the side of theMcCanns - helping them -would be to hide it forever? And that subsequently the McCanns launched a faked abduction? Against the wishes of the agents who by hiding the body for them obviously had a hold over them?

splat

by loopzdaloop 12.01.14 16:15

Can't believe there are pages of people seriously discussing burglars as a possibility and trying to fit the dogs evidence around this bogeyman scenario. Highly ridiculous. Grasping at straws much.

by Guest 12.01.14 16:26

loopzdaloop wrote:Can't believe there are pages of people seriously discussing burglars as a possibility and trying to fit the dogs evidence around this bogeyman scenario. Highly ridiculous. Grasping at straws much.

Not pampa grass, I hope.
An innocent 'in the box' reply.

Kindest regards

parapono

by Guest 12.01.14 16:31

loopzdaloop wrote:Can't believe there are pages of people seriously discussing burglars as a possibility and trying to fit the dogs evidence around this bogeyman scenario. Highly ridiculous. Grasping at straws much.

Quite. It's obvious the burglars didn't exist. But both forces are stuck for evidence to back up the 'died in the apartment and the body concealed' theory. They only have the dogs' findings, insufficient to prove a case in Portugal. They need more. What if the '3 new suspects' have been created - like Crechman - to provide that evidence. I.e., somebody inside the apartment that saw the body then fled. And have been 'too scared' to come forward as they are criminals who should not have been in 5A in the first place.

In short, a complete fabrication by the police to engineer the evidence they need to bring a conviction.

If no evidence can be found, it either needs to be created or one of the Tapas 9 has to confess. Which is easier? They've already created one new character in Crecheman, don't forget.

All a theory and guesswork, obviously.

by bobby18 12.01.14 17:04

parapono wrote:
loopzdaloop wrote:Can't believe there are pages of people seriously discussing burglars as a possibility and trying to fit the dogs evidence around this bogeyman scenario. Highly ridiculous. Grasping at straws much.
Not pampa grass, I hope.
An innocent 'in the box' reply.

Kindest regards

parapono

That sneering sort of response is the exact sort of reason I choose to post infrequently.

IMO the 3 burglars exist. Why?

Reports circulating globally (see fox news item) claim that SY have 'identified' them. As soon as that happened, the scope for them to be imaginary 'shadowy figures' is gone. In summary, to the larger public they exist and, day by day, in the alleged actions of their law agencies, a beautiful country like Portugal is being potentially seen as harbouring alleged child abductors and potential murderers (again see fox news item).

That is not sustainable.

If a 'patsy' was required, they clearly need to be dying or dead (Hewlett, Tractor man) - they do not fit the bill. By being 'identified', they will not go away, so, logically, I would say the following scenarios could apply and quickly:-

PJ interview them or allow SY to interview them and they are eliminated from enquiries
PJ interview them or allow SY to interview them and evidence suggests they abducted Madeleine as part of a botched burglary
PJ interview them or allow SY to interview them and the theory of discovering the body and fleeing develops

Logically, I could only see 1 or 3 potentially applying.

Again, only as a theory based on my limited knowledge on the case.

by Guest 12.01.14 17:13

I do like your theory of 'seeing the body and fleeing', bobby. It would solve a major difficulty the police must overcome before justice can be done. But I simply can't believe the burglars really exist, rather that the police have 'brought them into existence', like, imo, they have Crecheman.

by Smokeandmirrors 12.01.14 17:16

This story has not been confirmed by SY, there is no source cited, it is totally uncorroborated, i.e., there is nothing whatsoever to suggest it is true. Therefore trying to make sense out of it makes no sense. IF Andy Redwood, or a named source confirmed this latest distraction, then there would be something to talk about. Supposed arrests? Nonsense, it would not be announced in advance.

This story has no substance, proof, verification from a reliable source, nothing. It is as empty as Lorraine Kelly's head.

by bobby18 12.01.14 17:18

Dee Coy wrote:I do like your theory of 'seeing the body and fleeing', bobby. It would solve a major difficulty the police must overcome before justice can be done. But I simply can't believe the burglars really exist, rather that the police have 'brought them into existence', like, imo, they have Crecheman.

Fair point on 'crecheman' , Dee Coy, but main difference is most people think that figment of imagination was created by JT before becoming SY's property.

After being 'identified' according to reports, I cannot see the being imaginary.

by mysterion 12.01.14 17:22

I don`t know what other people have seen whilst on holidays abroad, but I don`t recall seeing men walking around after 9pm with a young children in their arms. Such a situation would illicit "Ah, isn`t that sweet" comments.

I could believe it happening once in a small place, out of season, within a very limited time frame but no more than that.

by bobby18 12.01.14 17:27

Smokeandmirrors wrote:This story has not been confirmed by SY, there is no source cited, it is totally uncorroborated, i.e., there is nothing whatsoever to suggest it is true. Therefore trying to make sense out of it makes no sense. IF Andy Redwood, or a named source confirmed this latest distraction, then there would be something to talk about. Supposed arrests? Nonsense, it would not be announced in advance.

This story has no substance, proof, verification from a reliable source, nothing. It is as empty as Lorraine Kelly's head.

Again, fair point but in the absence of refuting it or even commenting, what message does that send to the general public?

Apart from seriously damaging a country's reputation.

by mysterion 12.01.14 17:36

As far as I can gather, the general public do not have an active interest in the MM case. The only thing they are interested in is "Have they found her or solved the case". After 6.5 years, the rest is ignored.

Latest topics