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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice? - Page 4 Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice? - Page 4 Mm11

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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

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Is DCI Andy Redwood sincere in believing the Smiths were capable of providing two efits of the man they said they saw?

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Post by Guest 18.11.13 10:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:IMO the Smiths couldn't give detailed e-fits, they all said they wouldn't be able to regonize this person from a photograph or in person. 

The strange thing is how can Martin Smith say it wasn't Robert Murat?
As I will analyse in more detail in my 16-part article on Martin Smith (see here:  
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

...he seems to have been evasive about his relationship with Murat.

Take these four statements, in date order:


26 May 2007 - Martin Smith’s statement to the PJ

“He would have recognised Murat ‘instantly’. He had met him in Praia da Luz bars in May and August the previous year…”

8 August 2007 - press report, Drogheda Independent
Peter Smith: “The family are also mystified at reports that he knows Mr Murat. 'They met once in a bar about two years ago. My Dad would only know Mr Murat by sight,' said Mr Smith [Peter]”.

4 January 2008 - SKYNews

An Irish tourist who saw someone carrying a child in a blanket on the night insists that the mystery man was not Robert Murat…Mr Smith told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously…”
10 August 2008 - Irish Mail

In the statement to Portuguese police on May 26th, the grandfather - who wears glasses but was not wearing them on the night in question - said he would not be able to identify the man he saw. Significantly, though, he was able to tell Police that the man was not Robert Murat, as he had met him on a number of previous occasions”.

++++++++++


I am not sure Martin Smith has been candid about the extent of his relationship with Robert Murat.

To this we must add the following:

He has bought an apartment in the Estrela da Luz complex in Praia da Luz with his friend Liam O_____.

He appears to have bougt in back in 2005.

He admits to visiting Praia da Luz 'at least three times a year'.

He may well have met with Murat since the date Madeleine was reported missing.

Further, how unlucky was it that on the very night when he might have seen Madeleine's abductor, he wasn't wearing his glasses!

Another reason, surely, for asking searching questions about his evidence.
I'm not sure I see what's inconsistent about Martin Smith's statements highlighted here. He consistently says that he has met Murat several times. By contrast, his son states that his father met Murat only once, a year previously. Peter Smith's statement may quite easily have been a sincerely held impression that happened to be wrong - after all, one would expect the father to know better how often he had met someone than the son, who probably wasn't there.
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Post by Tony Bennett 18.11.13 10:15

russiandoll wrote:well, Tony...are you going to be less cryptic and explain your question re Martin Smith forgetting the spectacles or forgetting where he had put them?! 
russiandoll, it is I who am mystified by your claiming that my question about Martin Smith not wearing his glasses on the evening of 3 May was in any way 'cryptic'. It is certainly not my style.

We have these facts from the mouth of Martin Smith himself:

Fact 1:  I normally wear glasses

Fact 2:  I wasn't wearing glasses on the evening of 3 May (and of course he has never told us why).


So, I hope helpfully as always, I have put forward two alternative scenarios:

Scenario 1: "He forgot his glasses"

In this scenario, Martin Smith has simply forgotten, as he went out of the door, that he hadn't got his glasses on. It could have happened like this:

(a) he had had a shower before going out with his family to the Dolphin Restaurant, was a bit late, and in the rush as he put on his shirt, jacket and trousers etc., he simply forgot to put his glasses back on...

or maybe like this:

(b) he was sunbathing, had taken his glasses off and put them on a nearby table, and again in the rush to go out to the Dolphin, forgot about putting them on.

Scenario 2: "He forgot where he put his glasses"

Suppose Martin Smith had put his glasses down somewhere, for what reason, we don't know. It could have been (a) taking a shower or bath as above (b) sunbathing as above or (c) going for a swim or (d) reading close print and not having any reading glasses or (e) to clean his glasses or (f) for some other reason.

Then, he gets ready to go out the Dolphin. He then notices that he hasn't got his glasses on but can't remember where he's put them. He has a look. He can't find them. He has another search. No result. He calls his wife, Mary: "Mary, have you seen my glasses, darling?" Mary: "No dear, where were you earlier this afternoon?" Martin: "Oh well, I'll have to go out without them".

+++++++++++++++

These are relevant facts in evaluating Martin Smith's 'sighting' that night:

1. It was dark (as the Smiths admit)
 
2. There was poor lighting (as the Smiths admit)   

3. They couldn't see him properly because 'his head was down'

4. They couldn't see him properly because the child was said to be covering his head anyway, and

5. He didn't have his glasses on.


How any of the Smiths produced two efits, never mind one, on that basis, beats me  
 

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett 18.11.13 10:21

Popcorn wrote:
I'm not sure I see what's inconsistent about Martin Smith's statements highlighted here. He consistently says that he has met Murat several times. By contrast, his son states that his father met Murat only once, a year previously. Peter Smith's statement may quite easily have been a sincerely held impression that happened to be wrong - after all, one would expect the father to know better how often he had met someone than the son, who probably wasn't there.
Then why doesn't he say, when first questioned:

"I know Murat very well, in fact I've known him for two years.

"I come to Praia da Luz at least three times a year and have met him on several occasions.

"When I saw this bloke, it may have been dark, it may be I only saw him for a second or two, it may be that the lighting was poor, it may be that he had his head down, it may be that the child he was carrying covered his face, but I know Murat so well that I absolutely knew it wasn't Murat.

"I'm sorry it took me 13 days to tell you about this sighting, by the way - but my son Peter 'phoned me up on 16 May and asked me: 'Dad, Am I dreaming or something? Did we see someone carrying a child on 3 May?'

"And only then did it dawn on me. I remembered that I'd seen someone".

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Guest 18.11.13 10:26

I can't remember where I read that Robert Murat is blind in one eye, uses a contact lense instead of glasses.

Is it possible that Martin Smith actually saw Robert Murat that evening carrying a child and that's why he states it wasn't Robert Murat, so taking Murat out of the picture?
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Post by Guest 18.11.13 10:31

Cherry Blossom wrote:I can't remember where I read that Robert Murat is blind in one eye, uses a contact lense instead of glasses.

Is it possible that Martin Smith actually saw Robert Murat that evening carrying a child and that's why he states it wasn't Robert Murat, so taking Murat out of the picture?
It would be fascinating to know the identity of Smithman if only to find out if he is known to Smith or not - whoever he might happen to be.
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Post by Tony Bennett 18.11.13 10:36

Cherry Blossom wrote:I can't remember where I read that Robert Murat is blind in one eye, uses a contact lense instead of glasses.

Is it possible that Martin Smith actually saw Robert Murat that evening carrying a child and that's why he states it wasn't Robert Murat, so taking Murat out of the picture?
Extremely unlikely for a whole varierty of reasons. But this sequence of events might just be relevant:

 
3 May 2007

7pm-9pm approx:  The Smiths say they were dining in Dolphins Restaurant, Praia da Luz with their family, who consisted of Martin and Mary Smith, his son Peter and his wife Sile [Sheila] and two children (Tadgh aged 13, and Cole, 6), his youngest child, Aoife (aged 12), and two other grandchildren (Aisling aged 10, and Eimar, 4) from his daughter Barbara. 

9pm approx. to 9.55pm  The Smiths say they were drinking in Kelly’s Bar, Praia da Luz.

9.55pm   The Smiths say they left to return to their apartment in the Estrela da Luz complex, Praia da Luz. They say they paid for their drinks on leaving and later there are claims of a bar receipt for the drinks at 9.55pm

10.00pm    The Smith say they saw a man carrying a child. They said they had just climbed some steps on the way from Kelly’s bar to the Estrela da Luz complex and saw him walk down the Rue da Escola Primaria.

4 May

The Smiths stayed in Praia da Luz but none of them thought about reporting their ‘sighting’ to the police.

5 May

The Smiths stayed in Praia da Luz but none of them thought about reporting their ‘sighting’ to the police.

6 May

The Smiths stayed in Praia da Luz but none of them thought about reporting their ‘sighting’ to the police.

7 May

The Smiths stayed in Praia da Luz but none of them thought about reporting their ‘sighting’ to the police.

8 May

The Smiths stayed in Praia da Luz but none of them thought about reporting their ‘sighting’ to the police.

9 May

The Smiths flew back to Ireland.

9 to 15 May

For a further 7 days, none of the Smiths – now back in Ireland - thought about giving details of their sighting to the Portuguese Police.

13 May

Jane Tanner tells police that when Robert Murat walks past a police van which has a two-way mirror, she is adamant that he is the person she said she saw at 9.15pm on Thursday 3 May.

14 May

Robert Murat is pulled in for questioning and made an arguido in a blaze of publicity.

15 May

Rachael Mamphilly/Oldfield, Russell O’Brien and Fiona Payne all make statements to the Portuguese Police that they are certain that they saw Robert Murat hanging around near the ocean Club on the evening of 3 May 2007.

16 May 2007

Martin Smith eventually reports his sighting to the Portuguese Police

Martin Smith says that he gets a telephone call from his son, Peter. He says: “We were home two weeks [actually 13 days] when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police".

At this time, no information about the possible sighting by Jane Tanner has yet been announced. 

Martin Smith claimed in one interview that it was his son, Peter, who prompted him to call the Portuguese police about the family’s claimed ‘sighting’ of a man carrying a child. He said: “We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police". 

That statement, taken at face value, is significant for a number of reasons. If correct, Peter is reported as saying that he wasn’t sure if he was dreaming or if he really did see someone. How he and his father can then go on to (apparently) remember so many details about the man and the child raises question marks about the evidence of Martin and Peter Smith.

 

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett 18.11.13 10:40

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
It would be fascinating to know the identity of Smithman if only to find out if he is known to Smith or not - whoever he might happen to be.
Clay Regazzoni

Suppose there really is a 'Smithman' who is entirely innocent i.e. was not carrying Madeleine McCann, but was, at 10.00pm, really carrying a blonde girl through the streets of Praia da Luz.

The Martin Smith sighting was made public in early June 2007.

How likley is it that the man would not immediately come forward?

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Guest 18.11.13 10:47

Tony Bennett wrote:
Popcorn wrote:
I'm not sure I see what's inconsistent about Martin Smith's statements highlighted here. He consistently says that he has met Murat several times. By contrast, his son states that his father met Murat only once, a year previously. Peter Smith's statement may quite easily have been a sincerely held impression that happened to be wrong - after all, one would expect the father to know better how often he had met someone than the son, who probably wasn't there.
Then why doesn't he say, when first questioned:

"I know Murat very well, in fact I've known him for two years.

"I come to Praia da Luz at least three times a year and have met him on several occasions.

"When I saw this bloke, it may have been dark, it may be I only saw him for a second or two, it may be that the lighting was poor, it may be that he had his head down, it may be that the child he was carrying covered his face, but I know Murat so well that I absolutely knew it wasn't Murat.

"I'm sorry it took me 13 days to tell you about this sighting, by the way - but my son Peter 'phoned me up on 16 May and asked me: 'Dad, Am I dreaming or something? Did we see someone carrying a child on 3 May?'

"And only then did it dawn on me. I remembered that I'd seen someone".
I'm just pointing out that the statements you highlighted about his knowing (or not knowing) Murat are not inconsistent. 
When first questioned, why would he automatically say that he knew Murat? From the examples given above, it doesn't necessarily mean they were close friends, just that he was someone he knew vaguely just from visiting the same bars on occasion in a very small town. Kate and Gerry McCann 'knew' Jez Wilkins - and they were only holidaymakers staying in PdL for a week! Wasn't Martin Smith just being asked about the man he saw rather than who he didn't see? 
I think it's possible to walk past someone and not take in a great deal of detail, while still being reasonably certain it isn't somebody you know personally. I'm not trying to be argumentative here but that's what I think. I have an open mind about the Smiths and their evidence.
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Post by Guest 18.11.13 10:54

Tony Bennett wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
It would be fascinating to know the identity of Smithman if only to find out if he is known to Smith or not - whoever he might happen to be.
Clay Regazzoni

Suppose there really is a 'Smithman' who is entirely innocent i.e. was not carrying Madeleine McCann, but was, at 10.00pm, really carrying a blonde girl through the streets of Praia da Luz.

The Martin Smith sighting was made public in early June 2007.

How likley is it that the man would not immediately come forward?
Only two explanations really - either he's a) not entirely innocent, or b) he never existed.

It's worth mentioning that I have in my head a set of circumstances which makes Tannerman legit, however.

I see this as a spat between two parties, being played out through the media. Smithman serves no purpose, to me, other than to put the boot into Gerry McCann. Possible reasons being, in diminishing order of likelyhood, a) It was Gerry, b) Get Murat off the hook, c) Get an actual Smithman - who also happened to be known to Smith - off the hook, or c) Smith's got it in for Gerry for some other unknown reason.

What I can't understand, if he's not entirely on the level, is how he got the whole family to go along with it.
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Post by plebgate 18.11.13 10:57

How can anybody who is only 60-80% sure and didn't have their glasses on ever be a witness in any trial?
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Post by ProfessorPPlum 18.11.13 11:05

plebgate wrote:How can anybody who is only 60-80% sure and didn't have their glasses on ever be a witness in any trial?
I can just see the jury room now. Henry Fonda asks "Did you see those little marks on either side of his nose?" "Why yes. What of them?" "Aren't they the marks made by eye glasses?" "Why yes, you're right they are!" 

I rest my case. Bang. Not guilty.

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Post by Guest 18.11.13 11:07

ProfessorPPlum wrote:
plebgate wrote:How can anybody who is only 60-80% sure and didn't have their glasses on ever be a witness in any trial?
I can just see the jury room now. Henry Fonda asks "Did you see those little marks on either side of his nose?" "Why yes. What of them?" "Aren't they the marks made by eye glasses?" "Why yes, you're right they are!" 

I rest my case. Bang. Not guilty.
You're obviously a nicer person than me. I was thinking of Donald Pleasance in The Great Escape.
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Post by plebgate 18.11.13 11:09

Well, I can understand why Tony is querying why a statement was made?
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Post by pennylane 18.11.13 11:18

Lance De Boils wrote:I think TB is referring to the part in Smith's statement where he says he'd met Murat previously, but he didn't wear his glasses then. [My paraphrasing.]

My reading is that he meant Murat didn't used to wear glasses.

TB reads it that Smith wasn't wearing his glasses. Forgive me if I've got that wrong, Tony.
That's also what I believe Smith meant.
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Post by plebgate 18.11.13 11:35

So Murat was the one not wearing his glasses, but being only 60-80% sure,  would still not make a good witness, especially as it was dark and the man had his head down.  So imo Tony is right to question.
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Post by Guest 18.11.13 11:51

Did the Smiths give e-fits to Henri Exton, Oakley International, and then they were persuaded to say they had never given e-fits to anyone?

snipped:

The second sighting was by Martin Smith and his family from Ireland, who saw a man carrying a child near the apartment just before 10pm.

The earlier Tanner sighting had always been treated as the most significant, but the Oakley team controversially poured cold water on her account.

Instead, they focused on the Smith sighting, travelling to Ireland to interview the family and produce E-Fits of the man they saw. Their report said the Smiths were “helpful and sincere” and concluded: “The Smith sighting is credible evidence of a sighting of Maddie and more credible than Jane Tanner’s sighting”. The evidence had been “neglected for too long” and an “overemphasis placed on Tanner”. 

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Post by bobbin 18.11.13 12:15

I am more inclined to believe the Smith family testimony than not. They are a large family, several generations getting on well together, appreciative of a friendly village in a lovely country. They have not sought publicity, the opposite in fact.
They have been honest in what they did or didn't think they saw in terms of the variation in observation. One noticed the gait of the walker, the head turned out of sight, another the buttons on the trousers and their colour.
In terms of 'wearing glasses' and vision, this is a broader subject than just simple.
I need glasses to read and capture sharp detail. I am nevertheless very aware with my peripheral sight, which is especially more useful in darker rather than light situations.
Seeing is not just about 'acute detailed' vision, it is about interpreting one's surroundings.
The way a person walks, the bulk or form of his body, the way he carries a child, the arms of the child dangling, the colour of skin being unusually pale, the tonus of the child being limp, all this may be taken in on a 'subliminal' level, but can still render a valid 'perceived' sense, observation or memory.
Last night I saw a programme where police in USA had confronted a woman (suspected of killing her husband) with news that he was dead, to assess her reaction.
Her screams and tears were immediate, within a split second. The norm would be to be shocked, speechless, denying it as untrue, not possible, spluttering, wanting the message to be repeated in case it had wrongly been heard etc. In total, bad news takes a while to sink in.
Re the Smiths. Why would they immediately think that a man with a child in a holiday resort, used to family/ carrying children around in the evening time, would be the abductor.
One would immediately think an abduction would involve a car and a big distance within a short time-span, not a man parading around the streets with the abducted child on full view to a large family.
The Smiths were preoccupied with their own lives, their offspring going back to the UK next morning, their last night together, their own return to their own homes, the post, their busy daily lives.
If they were on the phone to each other a fortnight later and realised there may have been a connection, they made their statements to the police in Ireland straight away.
The Smiths will have been aware of the encounter from the point of view of what was 'visibly seen' and what was 'perceived' in terms of image, impression given and feelings/concerns.
As we all say. If it were an innocent man fetching or carrying his own child, why, with all of the publicity over the nigh on 7 years has this person not been found or come forward.
On the other hand, what was the nefarious Gerry doing at 10 p.m. We've seen enough lies, myths, innuendos etc. 'purported' from him.
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Post by Gillyspot 18.11.13 17:22

Tony Bennett wrote:
russiandoll wrote:Tony I never thought I would say this about you of all people....you are beginning to sound like Textusa!
russiandoll, I have to hand it to you!

Your timing is impeccable!

The very next post on the thread, after the above, was Gillyspot reproducing a brilliant piece of analysis, complete with aerial photo, by...

Textusa
Apologies Tony.

I wanted the pic so that was all I used from Textusa big grin

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Post by noddy100 18.11.13 18:54

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is this from crimewatch?
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Post by noddy100 18.11.13 18:55

That pic is on twitter
Taken at ocean club same clothes but not MM
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Post by Guest 18.11.13 19:00

There's a topic about this photo called OC Picture Madeleine or not?

Not is the answer!
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Post by ProfessorPPlum 18.11.13 21:08

At risk of going off topic..ref. the whole business of the age difference between THIS MM and the one in the  'pool photo' - was it ever established whether the McCanns had holidayed at OC previously?

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Post by columbostogeys 19.11.13 7:17

bobbin wrote:I am more inclined to believe the Smith family testimony than not. They are a large family, several generations getting on well together, appreciative of a friendly village in a lovely country. They have not sought publicity, the opposite in fact.
They have been honest in what they did or didn't think they saw in terms of the variation in observation. One noticed the gait of the walker, the head turned out of sight, another the buttons on the trousers and their colour.
In terms of 'wearing glasses' and vision, this is a broader subject than just simple.
I need glasses to read and capture sharp detail. I am nevertheless very aware with my peripheral sight, which is especially more useful in darker rather than light situations.
Seeing is not just about 'acute detailed' vision, it is about interpreting one's surroundings.
The way a person walks, the bulk or form of his body, the way he carries a child, the arms of the child dangling, the colour of skin being unusually pale, the tonus of the child being limp, all this may be taken in on a 'subliminal' level, but can still render a valid 'perceived' sense, observation or memory.
Last night I saw a programme where police in USA had confronted a woman (suspected of killing her husband) with news that he was dead, to assess her reaction.
Her screams and tears were immediate, within a split second. The norm would be to be shocked, speechless, denying it as untrue, not possible, spluttering, wanting the message to be repeated in case it had wrongly been heard etc. In total, bad news takes a while to sink in.
Re the Smiths. Why would they immediately think that a man with a child in a holiday resort, used to family/ carrying children around in the evening time, would be the abductor.
One would immediately think an abduction would involve a car and a big distance within a short time-span, not a man parading around the streets with the abducted child on full view to a large family.
The Smiths were preoccupied with their own lives, their offspring going back to the UK next morning, their last night together, their own return to their own homes, the post, their busy daily lives.
If they were on the phone to each other a fortnight later and realised there may have been a connection, they made their statements to the police in Ireland straight away.
The Smiths will have been aware of the encounter from the point of view of what was 'visibly seen' and what was 'perceived' in terms of image, impression given and feelings/concerns.
As we all say. If it were an innocent man fetching or carrying his own child, why, with all of the publicity over the nigh on 7 years has this person not been found or come forward.
On the other hand, what was the nefarious Gerry doing at 10 p.m. We've seen enough lies, myths, innuendos etc. 'purported' from him.
Thats an AMAZINGLY great post. Thank you, totally agree with ALL OF IT.

Oh i wear glasses for reading and long distance. When I am out and about I never wear any of them........so I am seen with them on, and without them on, like a lot of people.

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Post by diatribe 22.11.13 19:44

Tony Bennett wrote:


Have a look at the following list of people that Redwood, after 6.5 years had elapsed, said he wanted to trace amd identify (post below the OP):

1. Smithman

2. A number of blond-haired men:


(a) Fair-haired man seen twice near the McCanns’ apartment

(b) Two man seen on the balcony of Apartment G5C

(c) A man seen near the stairwell of the McCanns’ apartment block at 6pm

3. Two men seen speaking ‘in raised voices’ an hour after Madeleine was reported missing

4. Unidentified burglars

5. Men seen lurking near the apartment the day Madeleine disappeared

6. Men seen lurking near the apartment during the days before Madeleine disappeared

7. Two men, possibly charity collectors, who went to apartments near G5A the day Madeleine went missing, one of them was ‘a man with black hair’

8. Another bloke with black hair seen approaching people on the balcony of G5A the week before Madeleine disappeared.



How likely is it that this is a genuine request for information from the British public, 99.9999% of whom have never been to Praia da Luz? 
Precisely and by the same hypothesis how genuine is a programme that cost circa £750,000 over a period of months to produce, only to be screened in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands, particularly in the vein that the former is the only english speaking nation.

So, we have to presume that the UK was the main target for this alleged 'cry for help.' How many UK residents were likely to have been in the Praia da Luz vicinity  at the beginning of May 2007. Lets be generous and suppose there were 100 and of that 100, how many would not have already materialised bringing forth their pearls of wisdom. I won't be quite so generous here and state none. In fact the only person who hasn't thus far attempted to cash in on the notoriety of the McCanns is this spurious 'British  holiday maker' conjured up by Inspector Clouseau to give credence to Jane Tanner's 'vision,'  perhaps more affectionately known as Tannerman.

If it weren't for the cost, this charade would have the British taxpayers laughing in the aisles, I bet the Taxpayer's Alliance won't be adopting this particular edition of Crimewatch as their Yultide logo. I live in Woodford, Essex, does anyone seriously believe that the police would be saturating Winston Churchill's former constituency with a high cost campaign to drum up witnesses to a bank robbery which occured in Glasgow.

Lest we forget, Inspector Clouseau's immortal words , ''and then re-analyse and re-assess everything – accepting nothing.''  closely followed by ''The careful and critical analysis of the timeline has been absolutely key. Primarily, we’re focused on the area between 8.30 and 10. We know that at 8.30, that was the time that Mr and Mrs McCann went down to the Tapas area for their dinner and we know that at around 10pm that night was when Mrs McCann found that Madeleine was missing.''

If our 'elite' team of Scotland Yard detectives  really were re-analysing, re-assessing everything and accepting nothing, then surely the timeline should be between 5.30 pm when Maddie was last independently seen alive and 10.pm when she was first proclaimed missing, as opposed to 8.30pm and 10.pm, which is entirely reliant on the McCann's account of their daughter's last sighting alive. Even f the McCanns evidence could be relied upon, the timeline should be between 9. 05 pm. when Gerry states he last saw his daughter alive and 10 pm, not 8.30 pm and 10.pm, because clearly nothing untoward had transpired between 8.30pm and 9.05 pm if the aforementioned is to be believed.

This really is prime time dumbed down extravaganza for the Sun readers. 
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Post by canada12 22.11.13 20:31

I wonder if Kate and Gerry were told something that might have been a bit upsetting to them just before the Crimewatch program went out live? Most of the interviews with them were pre-recorded, except at the end. But just at the beginning of the show, we got a brief glimpse of them sitting "live" in the studio, and the look on Kate's face is nothing short of dread. She may have been trying to look like a grieving mother, but all I see is dread and fear in her face, and stoic "I don't believe what I just heard" on Gerry.

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Around the 1:44 mark.
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Post by Romario 22.11.13 20:51

Mirage wrote:Not to mention Jane Tanner letting everyone run off in the opposite direction of the "abductor". But here is where AR stepped in and gently coaxed her to tell her story from the beginning, exactly as it happened. Point zero.

Just imagine the fight that woman must have put up against the disinhibiting effects of alcohol. She must have been repeating to herself "I must not let Kate know I've seen the abductor" until her head hurt. At all costs she had to protect Kate's feelings. Madeleine's can wait, she thought. She's quite capable of looking after herself.

 Come on Janie girl, think about it, she's been looking after herself all week... and those two tiny tots as well. Besides, she'll wake up in a minute and give this man her tuppence worth.

Look at Kate. She's a wreck. I don't think it would be a good idea for us all to give the impression we know anything at this stage. The group know I've seen something. Thank God I didn't drop myself in it and tell them which way he actually went. At least we can all act natural and run about like headless chickens for a while, give the impression we're doing something constructive. That way no one will be any the wiser. I think if we run away from the beach area that would be a crumb of comfort. Actually catching the abductor could finish her off, the way she is at the moment, especially if he's got her anywhere near the water.

Tomorrow, when she's calmed down and maybe grabbed some rest, I can broach the subject ever so gently. Once I've explained I was only acting in her best interests I know she won't blame me. Forever friends - I just know that's what she'll say.

Now where was I? Err, hmm, you know I don't really,, I mean, I know at the moment. I suppose you're thinking I'm a fantasist but, you know, err, well, it's like I've just lost my train of thought sort of, you know.


........   And, this is what must have befallen AR. He returned to point zero with Jane Tanner and was never the same again.
lol:biggrin:
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Post by diatribe 22.11.13 20:52

canada12 wrote:I wonder if Kate and Gerry were told something that might have been a bit upsetting to them just before the Crimewatch program went out live? Most of the interviews with them were pre-recorded, except at the end. But just at the beginning of the show, we got a brief glimpse of them sitting "live" in the studio, and the look on Kate's face is nothing short of dread. She may have been trying to look like a grieving mother, but all I see is dread and fear in her face, and stoic "I don't believe what I just heard" on Gerry.

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Around the 1:44 mark.
Famous last words----

Kate Mcann

''and ultimately, its not us who have committed this crime.''
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Post by Liz Eagles 22.11.13 20:58

diatribe wrote:
canada12 wrote:I wonder if Kate and Gerry were told something that might have been a bit upsetting to them just before the Crimewatch program went out live? Most of the interviews with them were pre-recorded, except at the end. But just at the beginning of the show, we got a brief glimpse of them sitting "live" in the studio, and the look on Kate's face is nothing short of dread. She may have been trying to look like a grieving mother, but all I see is dread and fear in her face, and stoic "I don't believe what I just heard" on Gerry.

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Around the 1:44 mark.
Famous last words----

Kate Mcann

''and ultimately, its not us who have committed this crime.''
Setting aside the 'ultimately' reference which is strange and open to interpretation/analysis. What really does matter is the definition of 'this crime'. No crime has actually been determined. Madeleine is missing. Her parents say she was abducted. The police however don't seem too keen to say that anymore.
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Post by Romario 23.11.13 10:34

I just came across this thread and have been reading up on it. So if the Smith sighting was faked, why would Scotland Yard, who seem to be on the side of the Mccanns have anything to do with it, when in internet folklore the sighting is thought to be of Gerry and thereby points the finger squarely at him? Personally I never thought it looked like Gerry. But by releasing it, it seems SY have taken a photofit of a sighting that never was, which implicates Gerry (who's side we think they're on.) Anyone like to explain this?

The thing about Henri Exton and the Sunday Times article, was that it never rung true to me. It appears at first glance that Henri Exton was a good cop just trying to do his job and that lead him, inevitably, to question the Mccanns and to come up with the Smith sighting e-fits. But I mean come on, why would the Mccanns ever employ someone they thought would do a good job? Exton and Halligen would have had to have been 'onside' for them ever to be given the job. And moreover why did the Mccann's waste so much money on them? Were Exton and Halligen blackmailing them? And if they were and if they developed the efits as a statment to the Mccanns why not produce an e-fit that really looked like Gerry?

I presume I must be going over old ground here, so sorry if this has been discussed elsehwhere.
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Post by Mirage 23.11.13 12:31

Thanks Romario. Perhaps I should have added that AR had to break the news very gently to JT that this man she'd described had come forward to reveal himself as crecheman.

Ever alert to positional and directional anomalies our Jane immediately raised an objection.

JT: No, that man could not have been coming from the crèche because he was going the wrong way. Err hmm, well you know, I suppose  I  err he could have been walking backwards with his arms stretched out like this and with err, hmm, you know, sort of lying across the body, err you know, sort of like this.

AR My dear Jane, by the time the viewing public have returned to point zero - equivalent to a journey spanning three times the earth's girdle - we will be entering the festive season. The CW update will be following a seasonal theme. This time the recon will show the tapas group taking turns to share Russell's fleece and sipping mulled wine. The BBC have tracked down a recording of "I'm walking backwards for Christmas" to be playing in the background.

We will then wish our audience the season's greetings and if they remember anything, no matter how significant, we will be urging them to keep it to themselves as a token of goodwill from the team.


...........   Just my take on it anyway. Cue: The Logical Song.  big grin
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