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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice? - Page 5 Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice? - Page 5 Mm11

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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

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Is DCI Andy Redwood sincere in believing the Smiths were capable of providing two efits of the man they said they saw?

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Post by Hobs 23.11.13 12:56

"'and ultimately, its not us who have committed this crime.''


Oops

Innocent people distance themselves for the alegation of involvement in a crime.
They didn't do it so they naturally put distance between themselves and the event.

This is close, that is distancing

If there is a that there has to be a this

Here kate puts both herself and gerry close to the crime.

Which crime?
In the sample noted she doesn't say.

If she is referring to the disappearance of Maddie then she has droped herself and gerry right in the proverbial  ( rememebr OJ simpson in his book If I Did It?
In it he refers to MY GUILT

Innocent people will not and cannot take ownership of guilt for something they didn't do.
In coerced confessions where an innocent person admits responibilty there will be dropped pronouns, distancing lanaguage and reflected language, a good interrogator will see and hear this and know it's not a valid confession.

They cannot help but reveal the truth when they speak via their language, body language and behavior, the brain knows the truth and wants to relieve the stress so it tries to speak the truth.

As a result we see normally fluent speakers become verbally incompetent with lots of you know's, nonsense sounds, broken sentences and long pauses as they have to keep stopping to think before and during their talking to prevent incriminating evidence from leaking out.

Fortunately for us, they fail miserably.eyebrows 

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Post by Romario 23.11.13 13:25

Mirage wrote:Thanks Romario. Perhaps I should have added that AR had to break the news very gently to JT that this man she'd described had come forward to reveal himself as crecheman.

Ever alert to positional and directional anomalies our Jane immediately raised an objection.

JT: No, that man could not have been coming from the crèche because he was going the wrong way. Err hmm, well you know, I suppose  I  err he could have been walking backwards with his arms stretched out like this and with err, hmm, you know, sort of lying across the body, err you know, sort of like this.

AR My dear Jane, by the time the viewing public have returned to point zero - equivalent to a journey spanning three times the earth's girdle - we will be entering the festive season. The CW update will be following a seasonal theme. This time the recon will show the tapas group taking turns to share Russell's fleece and sipping mulled wine. The BBC have tracked down a recording of "I'm walking backwards for Christmas" to be playing in the background.

We will then wish our audience the season's greetings and if they remember anything, no matter how significant, we will be urging them to keep it to themselves as a token of goodwill from the team.


...........   Just my take on it anyway. Cue: The Logical Song.  big grin
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 15:06

Romario wrote:I just came across this thread and have been reading up on it. So if the Smith sighting was faked, why would Scotland Yard, who seem to be on the side of the Mccanns have anything to do with it, when in internet folklore the sighting is thought to be of Gerry and thereby points the finger squarely at him? Personally I never thought it looked like Gerry. But by releasing it, it seems SY have taken a photofit of a sighting that never was, which implicates Gerry (who's side we think they're on.) Anyone like to explain this?

The thing about Henri Exton and the Sunday Times article, was that it never rung true to me. It appears at first glance that Henri Exton was a good cop just trying to do his job and that lead him, inevitably, to question the Mccanns and to come up with the Smith sighting e-fits. But I mean come on, why would the Mccanns ever employ someone they thought would do a good job? Exton and Halligen would have had to have been 'onside' for them ever to be given the job. And moreover why did the Mccann's waste so much money on them? Were Exton and Halligen blackmailing them? And if they were and if they developed the efits as a statment to the Mccanns why not produce an e-fit that really looked like Gerry?

I presume I must be going over old ground here, so sorry if this has been discussed elsehwhere.
It's my opinion and of course it is only an opinion, that many are perhaps understandably being distracted by these sightings and the behaviour of the McCann's friends post 10.pm. Undoubtably they were all lying, but not necessarily to cover the McCanns, they had their own reasons to do so. That's why their statements/explanations etc. don't coincide with the McCanns, sure they were obstructive, misleading and may have thought they were being helpful, but at the end of the day, they were after all friends and one simply doesn't intentionally implicate one's friends in a serious crime. 

However to assume that they deliberately conspired with the McCanns to simulate a crime scene and illegally dispose of a body is a quantum leap forward. I think it is also fanciful thinking to suppose that they have any intimate details of what actually transpired with Madeleine and knowledge of where her body is buried. My opinion is that whatever happened to Madeleine occurred between 5.30pm and circa 8.45 pm. Further that her body was disposed of prior to the McCann's departure for the Tapas bar and that anything after this time was purely enacted for theatrical purposes. Unless the McCanns had access to a vehicle, Madeleine's remains will still be interred within a 2 mile circumference of the apt. they were staying at. It is not correct to assume that the McCanns were not familiar with the local terrain, because Kate McCann had participated in 4 mile jogging exercise routines since their arrival in Priaia da Luz. I doubt whether there will have been any sightings of anyone carrying children in their arms, 3 yr. old children fit in large bags.

Much has been written about this case, many theories as to what actually transpired have been advanced, but at the end of the day, this really is a simple question of was there or was there not an abduction, if the latter, its a matter of where is the body buried and that's where the police investigation should be focussed, not on searching for mythical Sydney Cooke lookalikes, bogus charity collecters, petty off season burglars et al. Particularly the latter who are looking to steal cash, credit cards, ID, jewellery etc. not babies.

I don't subscribe to this being some kind of accident, if this were the case, the McCanns would not have gone to such extremes to cover it up, not even if they weren't present at the time. The only reason disposing of Madeleine's body makes any sense is if it were to avoid an autopsy which would have determined the cause of death.
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 15:14

Hobs wrote:

Innocent people will not and cannot take ownership of guilt for something they didn't do.
In coerced confessions where an innocent person admits responibilty there will be dropped pronouns, distancing lanaguage and reflected language, a good interrogator will see and hear this and know it's not a valid confession.


Not prior to the PACE 1984(Police and Criminal Evidence act) they wouldn't.  big grin
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Post by Guest 23.11.13 16:06

diatribe wrote: [...] The only reason disposing of Madeleine's body makes any sense is if it were to avoid an autopsy which would have determined the cause of death.
***
I agree. May I add "time" of death to that?
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Post by Guest 23.11.13 16:14

Châtelaine wrote:
diatribe wrote: [...] The only reason disposing of Madeleine's body makes any sense is if it were to avoid an autopsy which would have determined the cause of death.
***
I agree. May I add "time" of death to that?
Yep. 

And: if she were alive, and there was a way to make money out of a fairy tale, that might induce some scoundrels to abduct her alive, and dispose of her alive
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 16:56

Châtelaine wrote:
***
I agree. May I add "time" of death to that?
You certainly may and I respectfully submit,  the smart money would be on not much later than 7 pm, May 3rd. 2007.
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 17:01

Portia wrote:


And: if she were alive, and there was a way to make money out of a fairy tale, that might induce some scoundrels to abduct her alive, and dispose of her alive
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Post by Guest 23.11.13 17:03

diatribe wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
***
I agree. May I add "time" of death to that?
You certainly may and I respectfully submit,  the smart money would be on not much later than 7 pm, May 3rd. 2007.
***
That or May 2 evening. I have difficulties to go into an earlier demise for many reasons.

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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 17:10

Châtelaine wrote:
diatribe wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
***
I agree. May I add "time" of death to that?
You certainly may and I respectfully submit,  the smart money would be on not much later than 7 pm, May 3rd. 2007.
***
That or May 2 evening. I have difficulties to go into an earlier demise for many reasons.

You may possess a far greater knowledge of this case than I as I have only recently began studying it. Therefore I have to assume that the last independent person seeing Madeleine leave the Day Centre alive at 5.30 pm on the 3rd. inst. May is a credible and honest witness.

As previously stated, I am relatively new to this case so there may well be facts about even this witness that I have thus far not discovered.
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Post by Guest 23.11.13 17:28

diatribe wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
diatribe wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
***
I agree. May I add "time" of death to that?
You certainly may and I respectfully submit,  the smart money would be on not much later than 7 pm, May 3rd. 2007.
***
That or May 2 evening. I have difficulties to go into an earlier demise for many reasons.

You may possess a far greater knowledge of this case than I as I have only recently began studying it. Therefore I have to assume that the last independent person seeing Madeleine leave the Day Centre alive at 5.30 pm on the 3rd. inst. May is a credible and honest witness.

As previously stated, I am relatively new to this case so there may well be facts about even this witness that I have thus far not discovered.
***
Thank you, Diatribe. You are aware that the last not-family or -friend related person is Nanny Cat? That this nanny was dispatched forthwith to Greece after the "incident"? And that she was invited to Rothley Towers November 2007, just before the T9 got together there again?
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 18:05

Châtelaine wrote:
***
Thank you, Diatribe. You are aware that the last not-family or -friend related person is Nanny Cat? That this nanny was dispatched forthwith to Greece after the "incident"? And that she was invited to Rothley Towers November 2007, just before the T9 got together there again?
Thank you for this information, I've heard various rumours relating to 'Nanny Cat,' although I have to admit that I haven't as yet got around to reading her deposition. The file is so voluminous and when one is unpaid for one's services, it does take a fair bit of dedication to glean through the entire PJ case files., as did the translation into english which I understand various people undertook on a pro bono basis. All of which goes to prove just how much of their own personal time people are prepared to sacrifice in order to obtain justice for Madeleine.

With regards to this 'Nanny Cat,' without wishing to appear disrespectful to her chosen vocation in life, one would presume that she isn't an intellectual don. I'm also presuming that the PJ would have given her a fair bit of consideration during their enquiries due to the fact that she was the last independent witness to see Maddie alive. Were she lying, do you think that she would have been able to credibly withstand a grilling from the PJ, I'm presuming of course that she didn't opt to adopt her 5th ammendment/Miranda rights.

By the same hypothesis, would the McCanns have attempted to bribe her in some form, because to do so they would have had to have taken her into their confidence to some degree. I think you'd probably agree that in a case as serious as this, the least people that know about what transpired, the better, that's why I've always been sceptical of theories that place too much reliance on the complicity of their friends. As previously stated, there's been so many rumours, conspiracy theories, muddying of the water over the past 6 yrs. it can become a tad difficult to see the wood for the trees, which is of course, exactly what the McCanns set out to achieve.

Please don't take this as a denigration of your theories etc. This is purely my perspective on this matter and despite the McCann's efforts to stop people from voicing their opinion, at the end of the day we will all have different reasons for coming to the correct conclusion. I liken the McCann's predicament to travelling on a train they can't get off which hopefully is only heading for one destination big grin
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Post by Guest 23.11.13 18:36

Diatribe,
she was shipped off within days to Greece. The PJ wouldn't have had a chance to "grill" her  there...
She was invited to the McCanns estate, days before the T9 met again for the first time since the fateful holiday ...

She has [and I have to admit it's rumours] since had a nanny job [unqualified?] at a millionaire's house in New York ... And the McCanns refused to disclose her whereabouts ...

She is the ONLY "independent"  witness to Madeleine's existence at 5:30pm May 3, 2007 ...

Forgive me for having my doubts.
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 19:12

Châtelaine wrote:Diatribe,
she was shipped off within days to Greece. The PJ wouldn't have had a chance to "grill" her  there...
She was invited to the McCanns estate, days before the T9 met again for the first time since the fateful holiday ...

She has [and I have to admit it's rumours] since had a nanny job [unqualified?] at a millionaire's house in New York ... And the McCanns refused to disclose her whereabouts ...

She is the ONLY "independent"  witness to Madeleine's existence at 5:30pm May 3, 2007 ...

Forgive me for having my doubts.
They're substantial doubts and I will now take the trouble to read her depositions etc. plus the general consensus of police opinion on her credibility. Although they may not have had the immediate opportunity to question her, undoubtably the PJ will have done so at some subsequent stage.

 Do you happen to know how they viewed her as a witness? What is the credit rating of other witnesses who allegedly saw Madeleine during the day time period of May 3rd? I ask this, because if there are doubts surrounding the credibility of the nanny, then we have to determine who was the last unimpeachable person to witness Maddie alive prior to the aforementioned. Upon first hearing of this case, due to the time lines, I have to admit that I thought the McCann's daughter had probably been killed a lot earlier, possibly even the day before, but I was dissuaded from this theory by the amount of people actually seeing her on the 3rd inst.

On the surface, 'Nanny Cat' doesn't seem to have aroused the suspicions of Goncalo Amaral who appears to be prepared to give the McCanns the benefit of his doubt by classifying Madeleine's death as an accident. Mind you, I think it highly likely he would have had libel on his mind at the time of writing his memoirs, if not his legal advisers most definitely would have.
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Post by PeterMac 23.11.13 19:51

And to add to the confusion, the other person who has writen a book on the very subject says that
1 SHE (Kate) found Madeleine at tea at the Tapas bar at 5:30
and
2 SHE (Kate) signed Madeleine out of the creche at 5:30

Not all three versions can be correct. Not in a Euclidian world anyway.
It is infinitely more like that none of them is correct and that Madeleine disappeared long before that alleged incident or incidents.
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Post by diatribe 23.11.13 20:58

PeterMac wrote:And to add to the confusion, the other person who has writen a book on the very subject says that
1 SHE (Kate) found Madeleine at tea at the Tapas bar at 5:30
and
2  SHE (Kate) signed Madeleine out of the creche at 5:30

Not all three versions can be correct.   Not in a Euclidian world anyway.
It is infinitely more like that none of them is correct and that Madeleine disappeared long before that alleged incident or incidents.
There's a couple of pages relating to Catriona Baker that I have found in the PJ files. The first relates to the portugese police interviewing her on the 6th May 2007 and the second to a couple of interviews conducted by the Leics. police the following April 2008. There is nothing definitive in the first interview relating to when she last saw Madeleine and it is only when questioned by the Leics. police that she actually states she witnessed Madeleine with her mother between 5.30 and 6.pm in the Tapas area She also states in this interview that she was with Madeleine during the course of the day on May 3rd. 2007.

Its perhaps of some interest to note that generally people's memories tend to diminish with the passing of time whereas in this case there are instances where they positively improve. It may be that on the 6th May 2007, the portugese police didn't attach enough significance to the fact that it was important to establish the last independent sighting of Maddie alive. There's nothing untoward in Catriona subsequently being in the UK , because she is a british citizen although I haven't determined her normal area of residency or its proximity to Leics.

Instead of concentrating on chasing up spurious sightings of perverts, bogus charity workers, petty walk in buglars et al, Inspector Clouseau might be more usefully employed with establishing when Maddie was actually last seen alive and by whom. I was under the misguided conception that Madeleine had been officially signed out of this Day Centre at 5.30pm, as opposed to being recollected as being seen around the area at the time, a yr. later.

The problem I've always had with the cadavar dogs is that a body needs to have been in a deceased state for circa a couple of hrs. before they can pick up the scent of death and the time line of between circa 6 and 7.45 pm always appeared to be tight for the dogs to have smelt the scent of death. Any removal of the body couldn't have been much later if the McCanns were to prepare themselves for the Tapas bar meeting with their friends and even then it would have been cutting it extremely fine.  It would make sense however if the time of death was retarded to prior to 5.30 which would allow more time for Madeleine's body to lay in state at the McCann's apt.

However, I can't see Catriona Baker stating that Maddy was with her during the course of the day if she wasn't, again that's a quantum leap from being conveniently mistaken about the timing of her last sighting of Maddie alive. Whatever way one looks at this Scotland Yard investigation, its clearly not concentrating on the correct timings or the relevant people which only substantiates my belief that its entire purpose is to whitewash the McCanns, there may even be a school of thought which would subscribe to the fact that far from being a methodical search for the truth, its a classic exercise in how not to conduct a search for the truth, methodical or otherwise.

If the McCanns really want people to start seriously searching for their daughter, they'd be best advised to dig into their Foundation Fund and start supplying them with a few of these.


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Post by diatribe 24.11.13 15:37

Rumour has it that the OPM(Other People's Money) perhaps less affectionately known as the BBC, are in the process of spending circa 1 £million of licence fee payer's money on a grandiose reconstruction of the Jack the Ripper murders.

This programme will be specifically aimed at potential witnesses who were in the Whitechapel area between Sept. and October 1888. Persons of particular interest will be those attired in late victorian period clothing without a copy of the 'Sun' protruding from their waistbands.
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Post by Tony Bennett 15.06.14 10:00

Over half of the 75 people who have voted in this poll so far believe that DCI Redwood, Head of Operation Grange, was NOT sincere in leading the people of the United Kingdom to believe that 'Smithman' was the chief suspect for the crime of causing the disaappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Here are 9 questions that demand an answer in relation to the two e-fits Redwood showed us over eight months ago on CrimeWatch:



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Above: The 2 efits shown to the nation by DCI Redwood and the BBC Crimwatch Team
 

1. Do you think these are e-fits of the same man, or of different men?

2. Did Redwood definitely imply that these were of the same man?

3. Did Redwood state or imply that these e-fits were drawn up by members of the Smith family?

4. Did Redwood actually state who drew them up?

5. Were they drawn up on two entirely different computer programs? (there have already been claims on this forum that they were)

6. Were they compiled by Henri Exton?

7. Were they then handed to the McCann Team?

8. Do either of these images physically resemble anyone we know who is connected in any way to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?

9. If they were drawn up by the Smith family, how could they possibly produce such clear e-fits when none of them saw his face clearly, they only saw him for a second or two, it was dark, the child was said to be covering his face, and all said that they would not be able to recognise him again?

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice? - Page 5 Empty Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by sallypelt 15.06.14 11:12

Tony Bennett wrote:Over half of the 75 people who have voted in this poll so far believe that DCI Redwood, Head of Operation Grange, was NOT sincere in leading the people of the United Kingdom to believe that 'Smithman' was the chief suspect for the crime of causing the disaappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Here are 9 questions that demand an answer in relation to the two e-fits Redwood showed us over eight months ago on CrimeWatch:



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Above: The 2 efits shown to the nation by DCI Redwood and the BBC Crimwatch Team
 

1. Do you think these are e-fits of the same man, or of different men?

2. Did Redwood definitely imply that these were of the same man?

3. Did Redwood state or imply that these e-fits were drawn up by members of the Smith family?

4. Did Redwood actually state who drew them up?

5. Were they drawn up on two entirely different computer programs? (there have already been claims on this forum that they were)

6. Were they compiled by Henri Exton?

7. Were they then handed to the McCann Team?

8. Do either of these images physically resemble anyone we know who is connected in any way to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?

9. If they were drawn up by the Smith family, how could they possibly produce such clear e-fits when none of them saw his face clearly, they only saw him for a second or two, it was dark, the child was said to be covering his face, and all said that they would not be able to recognise him again?

I posted this on another thread, but will also post it here. I think that one of the e-fits looks like this man:

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Post by Tony Bennett 15.06.14 11:23

sallypelt wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Over half of the 75 people who have voted in this poll so far believe that DCI Redwood, Head of Operation Grange, was NOT sincere in leading the people of the United Kingdom to believe that 'Smithman' was the chief suspect for the crime of causing the disaappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Here are 9 questions that demand an answer in relation to the two e-fits Redwood showed us over eight months ago on CrimeWatch:



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Above: The 2 efits shown to the nation by DCI Redwood and the BBC Crimwatch Team
 

1. Do you think these are e-fits of the same man, or of different men?

2. Did Redwood definitely imply that these were of the same man?

3. Did Redwood state or imply that these e-fits were drawn up by members of the Smith family?

4. Did Redwood actually state who drew them up?

5. Were they drawn up on two entirely different computer programs? (there have already been claims on this forum that they were)

6. Were they compiled by Henri Exton?

7. Were they then handed to the McCann Team?

8. Do either of these images physically resemble anyone we know who is connected in any way to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?

9. If they were drawn up by the Smith family, how could they possibly produce such clear e-fits when none of them saw his face clearly, they only saw him for a second or two, it was dark, the child was said to be covering his face, and all said that they would not be able to recognise him again?

I posted this on another thread, but will also post it here.  I think that one of the e-fits looks like this man:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

sallypelt, I disagree.

However, I will take my invesigations into these two efits one stage further.

I have evidence, still to be worked up further, that these two efits are of two different persons, both known personally to Kevin Halligen, and are not based on anything claimed by the Smith family.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

Tony Bennett
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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice? - Page 5 Empty Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by sallypelt 15.06.14 13:04

Tony Bennett wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Over half of the 75 people who have voted in this poll so far believe that DCI Redwood, Head of Operation Grange, was NOT sincere in leading the people of the United Kingdom to believe that 'Smithman' was the chief suspect for the crime of causing the disaappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Here are 9 questions that demand an answer in relation to the two e-fits Redwood showed us over eight months ago on CrimeWatch:



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Above: The 2 efits shown to the nation by DCI Redwood and the BBC Crimwatch Team
 

1. Do you think these are e-fits of the same man, or of different men?

2. Did Redwood definitely imply that these were of the same man?

3. Did Redwood state or imply that these e-fits were drawn up by members of the Smith family?

4. Did Redwood actually state who drew them up?

5. Were they drawn up on two entirely different computer programs? (there have already been claims on this forum that they were)

6. Were they compiled by Henri Exton?

7. Were they then handed to the McCann Team?

8. Do either of these images physically resemble anyone we know who is connected in any way to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?

9. If they were drawn up by the Smith family, how could they possibly produce such clear e-fits when none of them saw his face clearly, they only saw him for a second or two, it was dark, the child was said to be covering his face, and all said that they would not be able to recognise him again?

I posted this on another thread, but will also post it here.  I think that one of the e-fits looks like this man:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

sallypelt, I disagree.

However, I will take my invesigations into these two efits one stage further.

I have evidence, still to be worked up further, that these two efits are of two different persons, both known personally to Kevin Halligen, and are not based on anything claimed by the Smith family.

Hi Tony

I wasn't suggesting it was Halligan, just that the e-fit reminds me of him. It wouldn't make sense for it to be him, but, again, what does make sense in this sorry saga?
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Post by Cristobell 29.06.14 18:49

Pinched from twitter!

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Post by lj 30.06.14 1:50

Cristobell wrote:Pinched from twitter!

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great work!!! laughat

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

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Post by HelenMeg 30.06.14 10:23

It really says it all!
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