WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Hi Suzy, the case was never closed, but shelved and we have recently been told that the PJ have been receiving info. and investigated that info so never closed.

What I am saying is for the cost of a stamp on a letter and enclosing the report the case would have been re-opened and the same evidence in the report which has apparently led to it being re-opened now could have done so back then?

The E fit pics could easily have been sent to Crimewatch in England, without the need for the parents to have been on the show, posting them on Interpol site would also have ensured that the pics would have been seen Worldwide.

As we know this was not done, but apparently just a request from the parents would have re-opened the case, but a request from the parents with such a report would definitely have done it?

So why wasn't it done, but buried for 5 years?

Good to have a bit of a debate of it.

Why did they employ PI's in the first place. What were they hoping to achieve?

suzyjohnson wrote:

plebgate wrote:

suzyjohnson wrote:

plebgate wrote:

admin wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, Scotland Yard spent an estimated £5m on presenting us with what the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have already been sitting on for 5 years.

Dear old spudders.....

Yes good tweet and the bill is still rising, when all that would have needed doing presumably is put a copy of the report in an envelope and post it to the Portugese police.   If the case has been re-opened now because of this report was found in the files, surely it would have been re-opened then?

Not necessarily, the Portuguese would not be interested in the information they already knew.

However, they would be very interested that the McCanns tried to suppress the report of their own private investigator.

Mr. Amaral knew the information and was trying to get Smith back to Portugal.   The Port. police, having had an efit pic and a copy of the PI report would have been duty bound (IMO) to interview Smith and look at the anomalies the PIs referred to and put the efit pic into the public domain.   New leads might have resulted from the Efit pics being put onto Interpol and other sites (1000 plus calls have been received in the last 2 weeks since the CW appeal).

So yes, imo, the case could well have been re-opened in 2008.

Interesting that you should say that Plebgate.

When you think about that, it would only be the case if the McCanns were not responsible for MM's disappearance.

By Sept 2007, the PJ had more or less discounted the abduction theory because there was no evidence of abduction. They had made the McCanns arguidos and the leads they wished to follow were, as you said, to bring Smith and the Tapas group back to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction to test the validity of the statements. The McCanns left Portugal, sought out extradition lawyers, and, during 2008, the Tapas group refused to return to Portugal for a reconstruction. Therefore the PJ had little choice but to close the investigation, pending new evidence - presumably evidence of abduction, since it was not possible to proceed with the theory that the McCanns were involved.

The Portuguese had already spent a fortune on behalf of this British family, I don't see any reason why they would wish to proceed in a case which would involve extradition (of the McCanns) and an expensive trial, in view of the fact that many British people did not appreciate the efforts made by the Portuguese, and the terrible attitude of the British press. Also, in view of the fact that the McCanns were unhelpful in terms of not taking part in the reconstruction to help move the investigation forward (now proven by what has happened with the Exton report, no excuse that they were being unfairly treated there) the PJ would only consider reopening the investigation during 2008 - 2013, if there was clear evidence the McCanns were not involved.

For their part, the McCanns have not forwarded the Exton efits to the PJ and that IMO is very telling. If they were innocent it seems that they would have done so (they didn't need to send the entire report, just the efits) Had the Portuguese received these, and considered them to be evidence that the McCanns were not involved in MM's disappearance, then yes, they could have reopened the investigation in 2008, as you say, giving publicity to the efits.

IMO the Portuguse have reopened the investigation now, not because the efits have surfaced, but precisely because they have been withheld.

This might be what you were thinking earlier but I had to think it through step by step.

 The e fits form only part of the report referred to in ST article.  

I think what is written in the report will be much more interesting.

Tangledweb wrote:Yes, they suppressed vital information, and they can try and spin that by trying to make that information look dubious all they like, but no matter, it isn't just the suppression that is igniting the flame - what about the 'sleep patterns' bit and the 'hypercritical' bit about the parents - there is so much in that article (which is now in the Mail) that casts the parents in such a bad light.   Even at the most basic level, what right minded parents leave a little girl, who was prone to waking up and looking for mummy and daddy in that apartment, night after night?  The apartment which is so clear in the public's mind (thanks to Crimewatch) right near a road, and not 'your garden' as daddy spouted?  

It was abduction at all costs for this pair, right from the start - no other opinion (I thought woke and wandered initially) was allowed.  

The McCanns should never, ever have been in a position where they could dictate terms to anyone.  That they paid their own PI's, out of the public's generous donations, to find their little girl, because they didn't like the police investigation (wonder why?) and then decided to suppress those findings, is appalling.  No spin, no added sentences to the original Sunday Time article, and no excuses in the world will ever change that.

People are waking up to what they are like, and how they have controlled (or paid people to control) what right minded people think for too long.  About bloody time.

I totally agree.

What other couple of nobodies have had ambassadors, press conferences, a fund, a meeting with the pope, phone calls from a prime minister etc etc and for what? A serious case of child endangerment. You still have to blink hard to believe this has been the pattern for six years to the point where they have even laughed in our faces as they lied, so secure and special did they feel.

Now we have the Crimewash show touring selected venues round Europe with the duo that NEVER were cleared by the Portuguese.

Next up, this car crash of a revelation from the ST yesterday. I can safely say that AR is not the only claimant to a revelatory moment.

This means the public need to know, on a need to know basis (FOI), exactly when this information came the way of SY.
 
The public also need to know, given this certainly came to AR's attention pre CW, why he didn't form a different view of the McCanns other than the one he had been promulgating right up to, during, and after the broadcast.

The public rightly need to know why AR has apparently not had the basic courtesy of consulting the writers of the report and explaining, in confidence, that this material is pertinent to the on-going enquiry. These guys were ex MI5 FFS so would understand the need for secrecy.

The public now need to know exactly what is going on. Because this much I do know: the case ain't going away. Too much information is in the public domain. AND, whoever is at the bottom of this massive heist - however important someone thinks they may be - is not worth ruining the reputation of this country for.

Pennypennypenny wrote:Why did they employ PI's in the first place. What were they hoping to achieve?

Pennypenny, I will copy and paste the information here, so anyone who has never seen it, can read it themselves. They will see Clarence Mitchell's feable excuse as to why Kennedy employed PIs initially.

Start:

The following text is an unredacted version retrieved from Google cache, with redacted text in red identifying a former undercover police officer who worked with MI5. See other hosts of this via Google on "Henri Exton."

September 25, 2009

Mark Hollingsworth Investigates The McCann Files

Disillusioned with the Portuguese police, Gerry and Kate McCann turned to private detectives to find their missing daughter. Instead the efforts of the private eyes served only to scare off witnesses, waste funds and raise false hopes. Mark Hollingsworth investigates the investigators.

by Mark Hollingsworth

It was billed as a ‘significant development’ in the exhaustive search for Madeleine McCann. At a recent dramatic press conference in London, the lead private investigator David Edgar, a retired Cheshire detective inspector, brandished an E-FIT image of an Australian woman, described her as ‘a bit of a Victoria Beckham lookalike’, and appealed for help in tracing her. The woman was seen ‘looking agitated’ outside a restaurant in Barcelona three days after Madeleine’s disappearance. ‘It is a strong lead’, said Edgar, wearing a pin-stripe suit in front of a bank of cameras and microphones. ‘Madeleine could have been in Barcelona by that point. The fact the conversation took place near the marina could be significant.’

But within days reporters discovered that the private detectives had failed to make the most basic enquiries before announcing their potential breakthrough. Members of Edgar’s team who visited Barcelona had failed to speak to anyone working at the restaurant near where the agitated woman was seen that night, neglected to ask if the mystery woman had been filmed on CCTV cameras and knew nothing about the arrival of an Australian luxury yacht just after Madeleine vanished.

The apparent flaws in this latest development were another salutary lesson for Kate and Gerry McCann, who have relied on private investigators after the Portuguese police spent more time falsely suspecting the parents than searching for their daughter. For their relations with private detectives have been frustrating, unhappy and controversial ever since their daughter’s disappearance in May 2007.

The search has been overseen by the millionaire business Brian Kennedy, 49, who set up Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned, which aimed ‘to procure that Madeleine’s abduction is thoroughly investigated’. A straight-talking, tough, burly self-made entrepreneur and rugby fanatic, he grew up in a council flat near Tynecastle in Scotland and was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness. He started his working life as a window cleaner and by 2007 had acquired a £350 million fortune from double-glazing and home-improvement ventures. Kennedy was outraged by the police insinuations against the McCanns and, though a stranger, worked tirelessly on their behalf. ‘His motivation was sincere,’ said someone who worked closely with him. ‘He was appalled by the Portuguese police, but he also had visions of flying in by helicopter to rescue Madeleine.’

Kennedy commissioned private detectives to conduct an investigation parallel to the one run by the Portuguese police. But his choice showed how dangerous it is when powerful and wealthy businessmen try to play detective. In September 2007, he hired Metodo 3, an agency based in Barcelona, on a six-month contract and paid it an estimated £50,000 a month. Metodo 3 was hired because of Spain’s ‘language and cultural connection’ with Portugal. ‘If we’d had big-booted Brits or, heaven forbid, Americans, we would have had doors slammed in our faces’ said Clarence Mitchell, spokesperson for the McCann’s at the time. ‘And it’s quite likely that we could have been charged with hindering the investigation as technically it’s illegal in Portugal to undertake a secondary investigation.

The agency had 35 investigators working on the case in Britain, France, Spain, Portugal and Morocco. A hotline was set up for the public to report sightings and suspicions, and the search focussed on Morocco. But the investigation was dogged by over-confidence and braggadocio. ‘We know who took Madeleine and hope she will be home by Christmas,’ boasted Metodo 3’s flamboyant boss Francisco Marco. But no Madeleine materialised and their contract was not renewed.

Until now, few details have emerged about the private investigation during those crucial early months, but an investigation by ES shows that key mistakes were made, which in turn made later enquiries far more challenging.

ES has spoken to several sources close to the private investigations that took place in the first year and discovered that:

* The involvement of Brian Kennedy and his son Patrick in the operation was counter-productive, notably when they were questioned by the local police for acting suspiciously while attempting a 24-hour ‘stake out’.

* The relationship between Metodo 3 and the Portuguese police had completely broken down.

* Key witnesses were questioned far too aggressively, so much so that some of them later refused to talk to the police.

* Many of the investigators had little experience of the required painstaking forensic detective work.

By April 2008, nearing the first anniversary of the disappearance, Kennedy and the McCanns were desperate. And so when Henri Exton, a former undercover police officer who worked on MI5 operations, and Kevin Halligen, a smooth-talking Irishman who claimed to have worked for covert British government intelligence agency GCHQ, walked through the door, their timing was perfect. Their sales pitch was classic James Bond spook-talk: everything had to be ‘top secret’ and ‘on a need to know basis’. The operation would involve 24-hour alert systems, undercover units, satellite imagery and round-the-clock surveillance teams that would fly in at short notice. This sounded very exciting but, as one source close to the investigation told ES, it was also very expensive and ultimately unsuccessful. ‘The real job at hand was old-fashioned, tedious, forensic police work rather than these boy’s own, glory boy antic,’ he said.

But Kennedy was impressed by the license-to-spy presentation and Exton and Halligen were hire for a fee of £100,000 per month plus expenses. Ostensibly, the contract was with Halligen’s UK security company, Red Defence International Ltd, and an office was set up in Jermyn Street, in St James’s. Only a tiny group of employees did the painstaking investigative work of dealing with thousands of emails and phone calls. Instead, resources were channelled into undercover operations in paedophile rings and among gypsies throughout Europe, encouraged by Kennedy. A five-man surveillance team was dispatched in Portugal, overseen by the experienced Exton, for six weeks.

Born in Belgium in 1951, Exton had been a highly effective undercover officer for the Manchester police. A maverick and dynamic figure, he successfully infiltrated gangs of football hooligans in the 1980’s. While not popular among his colleagues, in 1991 he was seconded to work on MI5 undercover operations against drug dealers, gangsters and terrorists, and was later awarded the Queen’s Police Medal for ‘outstanding bravery’. By all accounts, the charismatic Exton was a dedicated officer. But in November 2002, the stress appeared to have overcome his judgement when he was arrested for shoplifting.

While working on an MI5 surveillance, Exton was caught leaving a tax-free shopping area at Manchester airport with a bottle of perfume he had not paid for. The police were called and he was given the option of the offence being dealt with under caution or to face prosecution. He chose a police caution and so in effect admitted his guilt. Exton was sacked, but was furious about the way he had been treated and threatened to sue MI5. He later set up his own consulting company and moved to Bury in Lancashire.

While Exton, however flawed, was the genuine article as an investigator, Halligen was a very different character. Born in Dublin in 1961, he has been described as a ‘Walter Mitty figure’. He used false names to collect prospective clients at airports in order to preserve secrecy, and he called himself ‘Kevin’ or ‘Richard’ or ‘Patrick’ at different times to describe himself to business contacts. There appears to be no reason for all this subterfuge except that he thought this was what agents did. A conspiracy theorist and lover of the secret world, he is obsessed by surveillance gadgets and even installed a covert camera to spy on his own employees. He claimed to have worked for GCHQ, but in fact he was employed by the Atomic Energy Authority (AEA) as head of defence systems in the rather less glamorous field of new information technology, researching the use of ‘special batteries’. He told former colleagues and potential girlfriends that he used to work for MI5, MI6 and the CIA. He also claimed that he was nearly kidnapped by the IRA, was involved in the first Gulf War and had been a freefall parachutist.

Very little of this is true. What is true is that Halligen has a degree in electronics, worked on the fringes of the intelligence community while at AEA and does understand government communications. He could also be an astonishingly persuasive, engaging and charming individual. Strikingly self-confident and articulate, he could be generous and clubbable. ‘He was very good company but only when it suited him’ says one friend. He kept people in compartments.’

After leaving the AEA, Halligen set up Red Defence International Ltd as an international security and political risk company, advising clients on the risks involved in investing and doing business in unstable, war-torn and corrupt countries. He worked closely with political risk companies and was a persuasive advocate of IT security. In 2006, he struck gold when hired by Trafigura, the Dutch commodities trading company. Executives were imprisoned in the Ivory Coast after toxic waste was dumped in landfills near its biggest city Abidjan. Trafigura was blamed and hired Red Defence International at vast expense to help with the negotiations to release its executives. A Falcon business jet was rented for several months during the operation and it was Halligen’s first taste of the good life. The case only ended when Trafigura paid $197 million to the government of the Ivory Coast to secure the release of the prisoners.

Halligen made a fortune from Trafigura and was suddenly flying everywhere first-class, staying at the Lansborough and Stafford hotels in London and The Willard hotel in Washington DC for months at a time. In 2007 he set up Oakley International Group and registered at the offices of the prestigious law firm Patton Boggs, in Washington DC, as an international security company. He was now strutting the stage as a self-proclaimed international spy expert and joined the Special Forces Club in Knightsbridge, where he met Exton.

During the Madeleine investigation, Halligen spent vast amounts of time in the HeyJo bar in the basement of the Abracadabra Club near his Jermyn Street office. Armed with a clutch of unregistered mobile phones and a Blackberry, the bar was in effect his office. ‘He was there virtually the whole day,’ a former colleague told ES. ‘He had an amazing tolerance for alcohol and a prodigious memory and so occasionally he would have amazing bursts of intelligence, lucidity and insights. They were very rare but they did happen.’

When not imbibing in St James’s, Halligen was in the United States, trying to drum up investors for Oakley International. On 15 August 2008, at the height of the McCann investigation crisis, he persuaded Andre Hollis, a former US Drug enforcement agency official, to write out an $80,000 cheque to Oakley in return for a ten per cent share-holding. The money was then transferred into the private accounts of Halligen and his girlfriend Shirin Trachiotis to finance a holiday in Italy, according to Hollis. In a $6 million lawsuit filed in Fairfax County, Virginia, Hollis alleges that Halligen ‘received monies for Oakley’s services rendered and deposited the same into his personal accounts’ and ‘repeatedly and systematically depleted funds from Oakley’s bank accounts for inappropriate personal expenses’.

Hollis was not the only victim. Mark Aspinall, a respected lawyer who worked closely with Halligen, invested £500,000 in Oakley and lost the lot. Earlier this year he filed a lawsuit in Washington DC against Halligen claiming $1.4 million in damages. The finances of Oakley International are in chaos and numerous employees, specialist consultants and contractors have not been paid. Some of them now face financial ruin.

Meanwhile, Exton was running the surveillance teams in Portugal and often paying his operatives upfront, so would occasionally be out-of-pocket because Halligen had not transferred funds. Exton genuinely believed that progress was being made and substantial and credible reports on child trafficking were submitted. But by mid-August 2008, Kennedy and Gerry McCann were increasingly concerned by an absence of details of how the money was being spent. At one meeting, Halligen was asked how many men constituted a surveillance team and he produced a piece of paper on which he wrote ‘between one and ten’. But he then refused to say how many were working and how much they were being paid.

While Kennedy and Gerry McCann accepted that the mission was extremely difficult and some secrecy was necessary, Halligen was charging very high rates and expenses. And eyebrows were raised when all the money was paid to Oakley International, solely owned and managed by Halligen. One invoice, seen by ES, shows that for ‘accrued expenses to May 5, 2008’ (just one month into the contract), Oakley charged $74,155. The ‘point of contact’ was Halligen who provided a UK mobile telephone number.

While Kennedy was ready to accept Halligen at face value, Gerry McCann ­ sharp, focused and intelligent ­ was more sceptical. The contract with Oakley International and Halligen was terminated by the end of September 2008, after £500,000-plus expenses had been spent.

For the McCanns it was a bitter experience, Exton has returned to Cheshire and, like so many people, is owed money by Halligen. As for Halligen, he has gone into hiding, leaving a trail of debt and numerous former business associates and creditors looking for him. He was last seen in January of this year in Rome, drinking and spending prodigiously at the Hilton Cavalieri and Excelsior hotels. He is now believed by private investigators, who have been searching for him to serve papers on behalf of creditors, to be in the UK and watching his back. Meanwhile, in the eye of the storm, the McCanns continue the search for their lost daughter.


END

dotdot wrote:

Tangledweb wrote:

PeterMac wrote:And they allowed this comment

GeoffCapesBudgie, London, United Kingdom, 5 hours ago
And so, finally, the British press begins to ask the right questions...
228 green arrows   17red

Indeed.  Nearly 700 green arrows now!

now almost to 1,100 green arrows and only 24 red

1,396 green arrows now !!!!!

plebgate wrote:Hi Suzy, the case was never closed, but shelved and we have recently been told that the PJ have been receiving info. and investigated that info so never closed.

What I am saying is for the cost of a stamp on a letter and enclosing the report the case would have been re-opened and the same evidence in the report which has apparently led to it being re-opened now could have done so back then?

The E fit pics could easily have been sent to Crimewatch in England, without the need for the parents to have been on the show, posting them on Interpol site would also have ensured that the pics would have been seen Worldwide.

As we know this was not done, but apparently just a request from the parents would have re-opened the case, but a request from the parents with such a report would definitely have done it?

So why wasn't it done, but buried for 5 years?

Good to have a bit of a debate of it.

Yes, I'm sure the PJ did continue with some work on the case, although not the same as keeping an expensive team on the case indefinitely.

I don't believe the evidence in the report has led to the case being reopened. I think that it's the fact that the report was suppressed has led to the case being reopened in Portugal.

I know that the press are reporting that the McCanns are not suspects in the new investigation, but then again, no one is a suspect, yet.

If the McCanns were innocent they could have sent the efits to Portugal in 2008. And if the PJ thought they were innocent they could have reopened the case. This time, I think, the McCanns have been really caught out.

Sally J posted:
"
Yes, I'm sure the PJ did continue with some work on the case, although not the same as keeping an expensive team on the case indefinitely.

I don't believe the evidence in the report has led to the case being reopened. I think that it's the fact that the report was suppressed has led to the case being reopened in Portugal.

I know that the press are reporting that the McCanns are not suspects in the new investigation, but then again, no one is a suspect, yet.

If the McCanns were innocent they could have sent the efits to Portugal in 2008. And if the PJ thought they were innocent they could have reopened the case. This time, I think, the McCanns have been really caught out."



The point is the case was  shelved not closed. 

The fact that the report was suppressed would not lead to the case being re-opened, new evidence has led to the case being re-opened.

We do not know whether anyone is suspect yet.  Someone might be, but info. not divulged.

If the PJ thought the parents were innocent they could have re-opened the case - not quite sure I understand that?

All only our own opinions of course, so we will wait and see.

Pennypennypenny wrote:Why did they employ PI's in the first place. What were they hoping to achieve?

the only reason i can think of would be to give the illusion that the PJ could not be relied upon and that they were having to take matters into their own hands.  backfired a bit!

From Portuguese Newswatch
 
 
 
Monday, October 28, 2013
 
 
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It turns out that Kate and Gerry McCann suppressed for five years ‘critical evidence’ that became the centrepiece of the recent BBC Crimewatch programme on the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.
 
 
Findings by ex-MI5 agents long kept under wraps by the McCanns included the two e-fit images described in the Crimwatch programme by Scotland Yard’s Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood as of “vital importance.”
 
 
The images are of a suspected kidnapper seen by an Irish family in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine went missing.
 
 
They were given to the McCanns by a handpicked team of investigators from Oakley International hired by the McCanns’ Find Madeleine fund in 2008.
 
 
Henri Exton, an MI5’s former undercover operations chief who led the team, told the Sunday Times he was “utterly stunned” when he watched the Crimewatch programme and saw the evidence he had passed to the McCanns presented as a new breakthrough.
 
 
He said the fund had silenced his team with a lawyer’s letter binding them to the confidentiality of a report they had compiled that contained controversial findings. Mr Exton said the legal threat had prevented them from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s investigation until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.
 
 
The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, gave little credibility to Jane Tanner’s 9.15pm sighting and focused instead on the 10pm sighting by the Irish Smith family. The investigators recommended that their e-fit images be released without delay.
 
 
For some reason the images were not published even in Kate McCann’s 2011 book Madeleine, though it devoted a whole section to eight “key sightings” and carried e-fits on all of them except the Smiths’.
 
 
In its Insight report, the Sunday Times quoted one of the Oakley International investigators as saying: “I was absolutely stunned when I watched the programme . . . It most certainly wasn’t a new timeline and it certainly isn’t a new revelation. It is absolute nonsense to suggest either of those things . . . And those e-fits you saw on Crimewatch are ours.”
 
 
The hushed-up report is said to have questioned parts of the McCanns’ evidence, contained sensitive information about Madeleine’s sleeping patterns and raised the highly sensitive possibility that she could have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself from one of two unsecured doors.
 
 
The Sunday Times quoted a source close to the Find Madeleine fund as saying the report was considered “hypercritical of the people involved” and “would have been completely distracting” if it became public.
 
 
In fact, the Portuguese lead detective Gonçalo Amaral considered the Irish sighting to be very important back in May 2007 when the Smith family first reported it to the Policía Judiciária. Details of the sighting and ‘hypercritical information’ were in the public domain early in January 2008, three months before the Oakley team arrived on the scene.
 
 
 
 
Ebullience at the huge response to their Crimewatch programme turned to embarrassment in certain quarters when it was revealed yesterday that the BBC had cast a porn actor in the ‘reconstruction’ of events the night Madeleine disappeared.
 
 
With such films such films as ‘Tight Rider,’ ‘Dr Screw’ and ‘From Dusk Till Porn’ on his CV, the actor Mark Sloan was engaged by the BBC to represent one of the McCanns’ holidaying friends with whom they dined each night, Dr Matt Oldfield.
 “How could the casting director not know of his background when they picked him? It’s all over Google. Did no one check? It is unbelievably stupid,” an agent, who did not wish to be named, told the Daily Star.
 
 
Meanwhile, although it only became official last week, it is thought the Portuguese police have been quietly back on the case for some months. A fresh team of detectives, unconnected to the original PJ investigators, is believed to be working both separately from Scotland Yard and in close liaison with them.
 
 
 
 
 
Things seem to be hotting up, though there is still no end to the mystery in sight.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Posted by Len Port
 
 
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I am presuming that an ex MI5 undercover operative is pretty good at what he does.  I find it absolutely extraordinary (and quite fabulous) that he came to the same conclusions as Amaral.  It's actually quite funny in a karmic sort of way that the Mcs ran away from Portugal slagging off the PJ and employed their own top notch British PI in an effort to clear their names but got the same interpretation of the facts.   As someone asked earlier, it does make you wonder what they were hoping to achieve by employing PI's. I am also presuming that SY will also reach similar conclusions to their fellow professional investigators (Portuguese and British) from studying the established facts.

I wonder if Carter Ruck read and understood the importance of Henri Exton's investigative report before they issued him with a gagging order. If so, how do they feel knowing it has emerged five years too late for Madeleine?

tasprin wrote:I wonder if Carter Ruck read and understood the importance of Henri Exton's investigative report before they issued him with a gagging order. If so, how do they feel knowing it has emerged five years too late for Madeleine?

I note the Mcs are now blaming the lawyers 'they told us to do it'.  Since when do employees tell the employer what to do!?

To be fair, there's no shortage of people coming to similar conclusions....It's proving what hapenned that counts, no amount of agreement between any number of people will change that, be they ex Assistant Chief constables, ex MI5 or "internet nutters".

Truthandjustice wrote:

tasprin wrote:I wonder if Carter Ruck read and understood the importance of Henri Exton's investigative report before they issued him with a gagging order. If so, how do they feel knowing it has emerged five years too late for Madeleine?

I note the Mcs are now blaming the lawyers 'they told us to do it'.  Since when do employees tell the employer what to do!?

More changing stories, more concocted nonsense.... is anyone surprised.

So, after nearly 7 years #McCann s have removed their Online Madeleine Store. What? They're not flogging any more tacky Maddie memorabilia?

That was a tweet, but appears not to be true.

Sorry!!

Edited to add that tweets are saying that it HAS gone. If it is showing as still there, it must be from the cache. So, best if people look for themselves

Trying to catch up desperately on all the posts........could it be - after 6 years of frustration The Times They Are a-Changin' ?????

Better rush to order your tat quickly in case this terrible news is true!
 
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Parliamentary Committee Questions on Police practice. December 2013.

         AR: I'd just like to say Good morning and thank you all for coming today.

Chairman:   I think you'll find that's my job, Mr R. Now can you give us a breakdown of your investigation?

          AR:  Well, it was important for us to understand what other countries were making of what has proved to be a very complex case.

Chairman:  And that has involved you in what exactly?

          AR:  Well as I say, it was very important for us to understand properly and to explore any wild-goose chases leads in other countries with regard to  the bodge up on-going investigation.

Chairman: Can you get to the point please Mr R. We have six hours, not six years, to spin this out.

         AR: Well I, that is we, felt it very important that the McCanns should accompany us on a tour of foreign television studios to present the baloney facts of the case to a wider public via carefully edited footage of the night in question. As you can imagine, that involved all of us sitting on rather a lot of TV sofas! 

Chairman: And what else did you all sit on, Mr R?

statsman wrote:
"I'm guessing that we won't see much change until something happens to make the tabloids feel safe that they will not be threatened by CR again."
..................................................................................

Farter Cluck will NOT ever again say that Madeleine 'WAS abducted' after their Isabel Martorell, partner, Carter Ruck, had to retract her sworn affidavit, in open court, because there is no evidence that Madeleine WAS 'abducted'.

She, IM, only said that because her clients, the McCanns, had TOLD her that was the case.

But had to sheepishly 'withdraw' her assertion before a High Court Judge.

Even ID, their 'lawyer' in Portugal will not say Madeleine was 'abducted'

She refers to Madeleines 'abduction' only as 'the McCann couple's THESIS'

Sorry if been posted already but Mail now reporting. 


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admin wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, Scotland Yard spent an estimated £5m on presenting us with what the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have already been sitting on for 5 years.

Dear old spudders.....

And then present it as if it was Andy's big revelation!

What'n cr@p

I read the Mail online this morning and found a sour comment within the article saying that the reason that Mr Smith changed his testimony to say that, after all, it wasn't Gerry he saw, was because of deliberate pressure by the Portuguese police who tried to falsely make out it was Gerry McCann.

Mirage wrote:

Tangledweb wrote:Yes, they suppressed vital information, and they can try and spin that by trying to make that information look dubious all they like, but no matter, it isn't just the suppression that is igniting the flame - what about the 'sleep patterns' bit and the 'hypercritical' bit about the parents - there is so much in that article (which is now in the Mail) that casts the parents in such a bad light.   Even at the most basic level, what right minded parents leave a little girl, who was prone to waking up and looking for mummy and daddy in that apartment, night after night?  The apartment which is so clear in the public's mind (thanks to Crimewatch) right near a road, and not 'your garden' as daddy spouted?  

It was abduction at all costs for this pair, right from the start - no other opinion (I thought woke and wandered initially) was allowed.  

The McCanns should never, ever have been in a position where they could dictate terms to anyone.  That they paid their own PI's, out of the public's generous donations, to find their little girl, because they didn't like the police investigation (wonder why?) and then decided to suppress those findings, is appalling.  No spin, no added sentences to the original Sunday Time article, and no excuses in the world will ever change that.

People are waking up to what they are like, and how they have controlled (or paid people to control) what right minded people think for too long.  About bloody time.

I totally agree.

What other couple of nobodies have had ambassadors, press conferences, a fund, a meeting with the pope, phone calls from a prime minister etc etc and for what? A serious case of child endangerment. You still have to blink hard to believe this has been the pattern for six years to the point where they have even laughed in our faces as they lied, so secure and special did they feel.

Now we have the Crimewash show touring selected venues round Europe with the duo that NEVER were cleared by the Portuguese.

Next up, this car crash of a revelation from the ST yesterday. I can safely say that AR is not the only claimant to a revelatory moment.

This means the public need to know, on a need to know basis (FOI), exactly when this information came the way of SY.
 
The public also need to know, given this certainly came to AR's attention pre CW, why he didn't form a different view of the McCanns other than the one he had been promulgating right up to, during, and after the broadcast.

The public rightly need to know why AR has apparently not had the basic courtesy of consulting the writers of the report and explaining, in confidence, that this material is pertinent to the on-going enquiry. These guys were ex MI5 FFS so would understand the need for secrecy.

The public now need to know exactly what is going on. Because this much I do know: the case ain't going away. Too much information is in the public domain. AND, whoever is at the bottom of this massive heist - however important someone thinks they may be - is not worth ruining the reputation of this country for.

Well said.

Mail is now allowing comments.  Something has changed

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Better rush to order your tat quickly in case this terrible news is true!
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was wondering if its possible that nothing has changed on this site, with Tannerman still being on there etc etc..... Could it be possible that it may be due to it being part of evidence, so maybe SY has got some sort of warrant or something to have it not to be altered ? Only thing I can think of why nothing has changed....

ChillyHeat wrote:

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Better rush to order your tat quickly in case this terrible news is true!
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was wondering if its possible that nothing has changed on this site, with Tannerman still being on there etc etc..... Could it be possible that it may be due to it being part of evidence, so maybe SY has got some sort of warrant or something to have it not to be altered ? Only thing I can think of why nothing has changed....

Isn't Kate McCann due to give a speech about Missing People soon? If that goes ahead and she's able to continue to spout her lies then I will assume nothing has changed in this case.

kinell wrote:

ChillyHeat wrote:

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Better rush to order your tat quickly in case this terrible news is true!
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was wondering if its possible that nothing has changed on this site, with Tannerman still being on there etc etc..... Could it be possible that it may be due to it being part of evidence, so maybe SY has got some sort of warrant or something to have it not to be altered ? Only thing I can think of why nothing has changed....

Isn't Kate McCann due to give a speech about Missing People soon? If that goes ahead and she's able to continue to spout her lies then I will assume nothing has changed in this case.

I get the feeling SY might just be pursuing a fraud case, that's why they said they don't believe the parents are involved in her disappearance.....Does not mean they are not being hunted as fraudsters. If they can break into a fraud case, then that's a way of bringing out possible canaries.

Tangledweb wrote:Yes, they suppressed vital information, and they can try and spin that by trying to make that information look dubious all they like, but no matter, it isn't just the suppression that is igniting the flame - what about the 'sleep patterns' bit and the 'hypercritical' bit about the parents - there is so much in that article (which is now in the Mail) that casts the parents in such a bad light.   Even at the most basic level, what right minded parents leave a little girl, who was prone to waking up and looking for mummy and daddy in that apartment, night after night?  The apartment which is so clear in the public's mind (thanks to Crimewatch) right near a road, and not 'your garden' as daddy spouted?  

It was abduction at all costs for this pair, right from the start - no other opinion (I thought woke and wandered initially) was allowed.  

The McCanns should never, ever have been in a position where they could dictate terms to anyone.  That they paid their own PI's, out of the public's generous donations, to find their little girl, because they didn't like the police investigation (wonder why?) and then decided to suppress those findings, is appalling.  No spin, no added sentences to the original Sunday Time article, and no excuses in the world will ever change that.

People are waking up to what they are like, and how they have controlled (or paid people to control) what right minded people think for too long.  About bloody time.

Totally agree about the Mcs should never have been able to dictate to anyone.......they were suspects for god sake !!!

JUST SUPPOSE SMITHMAN WAS THE ABDUCTOR.
The McCanns deliberately withheld his description and e-fit from the public, including the Portuguese for 5 years.
Therefore choosing to allow him to continue to rush round the Algarve, hoovering up small blonde girls.

Are they therefore complicit in the abductions of the hundreds of little girls who have been taken in the last . . . .

Ah, I knew there was something wrong with that argument !