Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

by Guest 28.10.13 11:01

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

October 28th, 2013 by Lisa McGarry.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by KellyLennon 28.10.13 11:06

candyfloss wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

October 28th, 2013 by Lisa McGarry.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

“Pay team of investigators to find your daughter. Don’t like report. Block it. Forced to hand over. Find ‘Revelations’ Act pleased #McCanns”

absolutly spot on KH

by Ochosi 28.10.13 11:10

russian doll - your description of bb1 etc made me giggle. I've only browsed there a couple of times and it's just too weird. I sort of imagine 2 birds in a covered cage chattering nonsense together, throwing their voices and answering themselves...

by noddy100 28.10.13 11:20

Is it true that KM didn't want to go in teh car to a potential sighting? Sorry to ask here still not sure where to ask questions thanks

by nobodythereeither 28.10.13 11:24

noddy100 wrote:Is it true that KM didn't want to go in teh car to a potential sighting? Sorry to ask here still not sure where to ask questions thanks

She apparently complained that they were driving the car too fast, and the PJ commented that she did not seem particularly enthused by the idea that her daughter might have been recently sighted.

They thought her attitude was odd.

(As if she knew that it could not possibly be her daughter ...... ).

by Smokeandmirrors 28.10.13 11:27

noddy100 wrote:Is it true that KM didn't want to go in teh car to a potential sighting? Sorry to ask here still not sure where to ask questions thanks

In her book, I believe it was only a couple of days after the disappearance and Kate was irritated with the police driver for going too fast to a potential sighting. This was one of the things that made people go wft

by rainbow1 28.10.13 11:29

admin wrote:
sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There's that "threat to national security" warning again.

Why the mention of national security etc when this case is a child missing . Very odd !

by Bishop Brennan 28.10.13 11:31

Truthandjustice wrote:
sami wrote:A number of times now I have read that Smith has withdrawn his claim it may have been Gerry he saw. Has this been confirmed by the police or is it the usual brainwashing sentance thrown into press articles ?
I don't think he has. It is never in direct quotes, always 'reported to have', probably by a mate of the Mcs. Their new argument that he is an unreliable witness is,...... errr ludicrous.

However, I think the Mcs will be vicious when backed into a corner, that's why the police are carefully building a watertight case.

Agreed. You cannot "withdraw" a police statement that has been officially signed, and put into public record. It's there for all to see. Of course, with 'pressure' you could be made to doubt what you saw - to move away from being '60-80% certain', but the original statement is what really counts. It is when memories were fresh, and honesty at its highest.

by russiandoll 28.10.13 11:32

Ochosi wrote:russian doll - your description of bb1 etc made me giggle. I've only browsed there a couple of times and it's just too weird. I sort of imagine 2 birds in a covered cage chattering nonsense together, throwing their voices and answering themselves...

I have upset her and been called a tw*t. There is a fckg in there too, time for doctors to prepare her sedation mayhap as she so often says so quaintly instead of perhaps.
It is very easy to establish that she and her best mate who holds her in such reverence [!] as to almost bow before her when " he " speaks, are awake and asleep at the same times. They always come out to play together they are such best imaginary friends. Glued at the hip ? Glued at the tongue more like !

Quite sweet really the way one parrots the other but she really hates me...see the language above? You cant fool a linguist with pretend English from a "foreigner " you see, it is a giveaway.

No more time wasted on her/him/them. Boring 99% of the time.
I'm outta here for a dog walk. Laters folks !

by BRODFB 28.10.13 11:35

rainbow1 wrote:
admin wrote:
sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There's that "threat to national security" warning again.
Why the mention of national security etc when this case is a child missing . Very odd !

Probably standard wording for someone working in the security services. IMHO

by possumsall 28.10.13 11:41

I'm another new member and very proud to be so.

Been a regular visitor for ages.

by bristow 28.10.13 11:44

russiandoll wrote:
Ochosi wrote:russian doll - your description of bb1 etc made me giggle. I've only browsed there a couple of times and it's just too weird. I sort of imagine 2 birds in a covered cage chattering nonsense together, throwing their voices and answering themselves...
I have upset her and been called a tw*t. There is a fckg in there too, time for doctors to prepare her sedation mayhap as she so often says so quaintly instead of perhaps.
It is very easy to establish that she and her best mate who holds her in such reverence [!] as to almost bow before her when " he " speaks, are awake and asleep at the same times. They always come out to play together they are such best imaginary friends. Glued at the hip ? Glued at the tongue more like !

Quite sweet really the way one parrots the other but she really hates me...see the language above? You cant fool a linguist with pretend English from a "foreigner " you see, it is a giveaway.

No more time wasted on her/him/them. Boring 99% of the time.
I'm outta here for a dog walk. Laters folks !

'Tis a very strange site, there's hardly any members!

Are they not allowing people to join because they know they are in the minority with their opinions?

Nothing of intelligence or help in finding Madeleine is on there, just constant playground, childish snipings about people who doubt the McCanns version of events.

Seems to me that she spends her whole time on here, reading and quoting from our threads - ridiculous really as they are doing nothing about educating any readers of their opinions apart from showing how abusive and narrow minded they are.

by noddy100 28.10.13 11:45

by bristow 28.10.13 11:47

noddy100 wrote:bb1?

Yes, her of the bitter personality.

by Smokeandmirrors 28.10.13 11:47

russiandoll wrote:
Ochosi wrote:russian doll - your description of bb1 etc made me giggle. I've only browsed there a couple of times and it's just too weird. I sort of imagine 2 birds in a covered cage chattering nonsense together, throwing their voices and answering themselves...
I have upset her and been called a tw*t. There is a fckg in there too, time for doctors to prepare her sedation mayhap as she so often says so quaintly instead of perhaps.
It is very easy to establish that she and her best mate who holds her in such reverence [!] as to almost bow before her when " he " speaks, are awake and asleep at the same times. They always come out to play together they are such best imaginary friends. Glued at the hip ? Glued at the tongue more like !

Quite sweet really the way one parrots the other but she really hates me...see the language above? You cant fool a linguist with pretend English from a "foreigner " you see, it is a giveaway.

No more time wasted on her/him/them. Boring 99% of the time.
I'm outta here for a dog walk. Laters folks !

Reminds me of the Gollum/Smeagal scene in Lord of the Rings.

by dotdot 28.10.13 11:54

Tangledweb wrote:
PeterMac wrote:And they allowed this comment
GeoffCapesBudgie, London, United Kingdom, 5 hours ago
And so, finally, the British press begins to ask the right questions...
228 green arrows 17red
Indeed. Nearly 700 green arrows now!

now almost to 1,100 green arrows and only 24 red Mrs

by Guest 28.10.13 12:01

Russiandoll

My friend.

I have been visiting to that forum and you have how you say rattling their cages.

But your words are mine.

by sofieellis 28.10.13 12:02

noddy100 wrote:Is it true that KM didn't want to go in teh car to a potential sighting? Sorry to ask here still not sure where to ask questions thanks

Yes, Goncalo mentions it in chapter 3 of his book. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to it here, but you can find it by googling.

by Ochosi 28.10.13 12:11

noddy100 - bb1 on the odd forum below
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Miraflores 28.10.13 12:32

It really is amazing: the Mumsnet thread has now got to 660 posts, without the thread being whooshed, and the discussions happening there are the sorts that we have been having over the past few years.

Well done ST.

by plebgate 28.10.13 12:49

suzyjohnson wrote:
plebgate wrote:
admin wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, Scotland Yard spent an estimated £5m on presenting us with what the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have already been sitting on for 5 years.
Dear old spudders.....
Yes good tweet and the bill is still rising, when all that would have needed doing presumably is put a copy of the report in an envelope and post it to the Portugese police. If the case has been re-opened now because of this report was found in the files, surely it would have been re-opened then?
Not necessarily, the Portuguese would not be interested in the information they already knew.

However, they would be very interested that the McCanns tried to suppress the report of their own private investigator.

Mr. Amaral knew the information and was trying to get Smith back to Portugal. The Port. police, having had an efit pic and a copy of the PI report would have been duty bound (IMO) to interview Smith and look at the anomalies the PIs referred to and put the efit pic into the public domain. New leads might have resulted from the Efit pics being put onto Interpol and other sites (1000 plus calls have been received in the last 2 weeks since the CW appeal).

So yes, imo, the case could well have been re-opened in 2008.

by Guest 28.10.13 12:49

Today's Times has the story on page13. Pretty much thesame as in TheSunday Times. A bit of spin in this one now though. It says that although there was difficulty because of Smith being 60-80 percent certain it was gerry , his movements have been established as he was seen bywitnesses in the tapas restaurant. The suggestion that it was gerry was "seized on by goncalo amaral" and the mccanns are suing him for alleging theyfaked their daughter's abduction. It also says the fund's lawyers required the report to remainconfidential. The efits were in possession of portuguese police and scotland yard forsomeyears before this month's publication..

So.... Think someone is back in the office today andspinning the yarn....

by noddy100 28.10.13 12:51

Ochosi wrote:noddy100 - bb1 on the odd forum below
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks

by Hongkong Phooey 28.10.13 12:55

Even with all this 'enlightenment' going on at the moment none of the MSM have actually stated that the McCanns could have had the case opened at any time (since it was shelved) if they had asked and been willing to co-operate. So right there, suppression of the investigation. They've done it all along, only they can answer why, although I think many on here know the reason.

by Miraflores 28.10.13 12:57

So.... Think someone is back in the office today and spinning the yarn....

Yes, true, but the story has now escaped onto twitter and other social media, which weren't so prevalent back in 2008 even. Once the genii is out of the bottle, it is going to be difficult to put it back in.

by tiny 28.10.13 13:14

Stewie wrote:Today's Times has the story on page13. Pretty much thesame as in TheSunday Times. A bit of spin in this one now though. It says that although there was difficulty because of Smith being 60-80 percent certain it was gerry , his movements have been established as he was seen bywitnesses in the tapas restaurant. The suggestion that it was gerry was "seized on by goncalo amaral" and the mccanns are suing him for alleging theyfaked their daughter's abduction. It also says the fund's lawyers required the report to remainconfidential. The efits were in possession of portuguese police and scotland yard forsomeyears before this month's publication..

So.... Think someone is back in the office today andspinning the yarn....

No matter which way the press(Mitchell) spin this THE MCCANNS SUPPRESSED VITAL INFORMATION. prisoner

by Tangledweb 28.10.13 13:30

Yes, they suppressed vital information, and they can try and spin that by trying to make that information look dubious all they like, but no matter, it isn't just the suppression that is igniting the flame - what about the 'sleep patterns' bit and the 'hypercritical' bit about the parents - there is so much in that article (which is now in the Mail) that casts the parents in such a bad light. Even at the most basic level, what right minded parents leave a little girl, who was prone to waking up and looking for mummy and daddy in that apartment, night after night? The apartment which is so clear in the public's mind (thanks to Crimewatch) right near a road, and not 'your garden' as daddy spouted?

It was abduction at all costs for this pair, right from the start - no other opinion (I thought woke and wandered initially) was allowed.

The McCanns should never, ever have been in a position where they could dictate terms to anyone. That they paid their own PI's, out of the public's generous donations, to find their little girl, because they didn't like the police investigation (wonder why?) and then decided to suppress those findings, is appalling. No spin, no added sentences to the original Sunday Time article, and no excuses in the world will ever change that.

People are waking up to what they are like, and how they have controlled (or paid people to control) what right minded people think for too long. About bloody time.

by suzyjohnson 28.10.13 13:36

plebgate wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:
plebgate wrote:
admin wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, Scotland Yard spent an estimated £5m on presenting us with what the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have already been sitting on for 5 years.
Dear old spudders.....
Yes good tweet and the bill is still rising, when all that would have needed doing presumably is put a copy of the report in an envelope and post it to the Portugese police. If the case has been re-opened now because of this report was found in the files, surely it would have been re-opened then?
Not necessarily, the Portuguese would not be interested in the information they already knew.

However, they would be very interested that the McCanns tried to suppress the report of their own private investigator.
Mr. Amaral knew the information and was trying to get Smith back to Portugal. The Port. police, having had an efit pic and a copy of the PI report would have been duty bound (IMO) to interview Smith and look at the anomalies the PIs referred to and put the efit pic into the public domain. New leads might have resulted from the Efit pics being put onto Interpol and other sites (1000 plus calls have been received in the last 2 weeks since the CW appeal).

So yes, imo, the case could well have been re-opened in 2008.

Interesting that you should say that Plebgate.

When you think about that, it would only be the case if the McCanns were not responsible for MM's disappearance.

By Sept 2007, the PJ had more or less discounted the abduction theory because there was no evidence of abduction. They had made the McCanns arguidos and the leads they wished to follow were, as you said, to bring Smith and the Tapas group back to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction to test the validity of the statements. The McCanns left Portugal, sought out extradition lawyers, and, during 2008, the Tapas group refused to return to Portugal for a reconstruction. Therefore the PJ had little choice but to close the investigation, pending new evidence - presumably evidence of abduction, since it was not possible to proceed with the theory that the McCanns were involved.

The Portuguese had already spent a fortune on behalf of this British family, I don't see any reason why they would wish to proceed in a case which would involve extradition (of the McCanns) and an expensive trial, in view of the fact that many British people did not appreciate the efforts made by the Portuguese, and the terrible attitude of the British press. Also, in view of the fact that the McCanns were unhelpful in terms of not taking part in the reconstruction to help move the investigation forward (now proven by what has happened with the Exton report, no excuse that they were being unfairly treated there) the PJ would only consider reopening the investigation during 2008 - 2013, if there was clear evidence the McCanns were not involved.

For their part, the McCanns have not forwarded the Exton efits to the PJ and that IMO is very telling. If they were innocent it seems that they would have done so (they didn't need to send the entire report, just the efits) Had the Portuguese received these, and considered them to be evidence that the McCanns were not involved in MM's disappearance, then yes, they could have reopened the investigation in 2008, as you say, giving publicity to the efits.

IMO the Portuguse have reopened the investigation now, not because the efits have surfaced, but precisely because they have been withheld.

This might be what you were thinking earlier but I had to think it through step by step.

by sallypelt 28.10.13 13:42

sallypelt wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:
Hongkong Phooey wrote:It's a pity that they are all concentrating on the e-fits, the most significant new news from the ST is that the report actually backs up some of Amaral's findings i.e. the irregular sleep patterns and the possibility of accidental death. All we are getting is the suppresion of the e-fits and even then most are not making it clear who is responsible. Hopefully this is just the beginning for The Times / Sunday Times as they stated they have seen the report (they probably have it in their possession). Will they expand on the other big issues?
The McCanns, and possibly members of the Tapas group, will be worrying a great deal that the Sunday Times has the Exton report in their possession.

What's next?
And if this report is as "hypercritical" as suggested then it is absolutely guaranteed to be shared at some point. If a newspaper has it, it is only a matter of time. Wouldn't be surprised if someone at the Times has forwarded it to the Libel judge and Amaral. Blimey, if I worked at the Times I'd damn well make sure it got out there.
Isn't there a redacted letter on Joana's site? I posted a link a few days ago, and it's on this thread, somewhere.........I think!
Oops, should have posted it here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The letter on the above link refers to DA notice 5, so I have looked into what this actually means, I have posted my findings below:

5. Although not subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 or the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act of 2002, the DPBAC is committed to practising a policy of maximum disclosure of its activities consistent with the effective conduct of its business and the need to ensure that it honours any assurance of confidentiality given to the individuals and organisations with which it deals.

by sallypelt 28.10.13 13:52

Going back to the DA section 5 notice, why does it say in the link that the fund was set up by Brian Kennedy

This is a quote from the link

"The search has been overseen by the millionaire business Brian Kennedy, 49, who set up Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned, which aimed ‘to procure that Madeleine’s abduction is thoroughly investigated’. A straight-talking, tough, burly self-made entrepreneur and rugby fanatic, he grew up in a council flat near Tynecastle in Scotland and was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness. He started his working life as a window cleaner and by 2007 had acquired a £350 million fortune from double-glazing and home-improvement ventures"

End quote

I have always believed that Brian Kennedy came a lot later

WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1