Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

by tegan1973 15.10.13 10:46

Dr What wrote:The only point I can think of as to why Redwood concentrated on burglars, charity workers, people talking in the street[?], is that he is hoping one of this fraternity will have seen something on that night whilst engaged in their particular activity, that will back up the Smith sighting and will come forward.
I really can not believe that Redwood thinks that potential thieves and burglars turn into child kidnappers overnight. But they might have seen something.

Wouldn't the charity workers and burglars be Portuguese and unable to watch the show because its not broadcast there?

by **PeterMac** 15.10.13 10:47

Juulcy wrote:Maybe there are negociatings behind the scenes going on. One or both of the Mccanns will own up, as long as the T7 are left out of things and not persecuted for obstruction of justice?
- e.g JT did see someone, but just the wrong person
- no mention of the (fabricated) last sighting of Madeleine by Payne
- no mention of the Oldfield check (did not happen, that makes much more sense than his wobly statements)
Anyway, this is what we are left with:
- no last sighting since hightea (or maybe even before because we have not seen watertight evidence) other than the parents.
-No visual checks between 8.30 and 10.00 hours other than the parents
-no mention of points of entries, curtains windows or shutters (no mention let alone proof what so ever of
another person other than the parents in the appartement)
-enquiries about a man that could fit GM's description walking with a child in the wrong direction if he were a holidaying parent in PdL.
At first I was really upset and totally baffled by CW, but actually it is progress in the right direction. And bonus: it ties in with GA's original thoughts and linies of questioning so it is certainly no help for the Mccanns in the libel case.

Agreed
The programme was notable for what it did NOT show.
It was the Dog in the Nightime. That was the curious incident.
There was in fact NO reconstruction - of anything.
We were presented with nothing more than a detailed account of why Tanner's 'sighting" was innocent and could not be called in aid of an abduction scenario.
We were not given any other details or explanation.

Also notable was the amount of stuff which obviously ended on the cutting room floor, alleged tennis match, new Last Photo, McCs sitting with backs to the pool, wrong seating plan, and so on and on.
Someone, somewhere may have read the letters sent to them, and realised that they could not go ahead.
And once you start cutting details out of a story you end up with anodyne drivel as we saw.

by Guest 15.10.13 10:47

From BBC

DCI Redwood said it had been a "revelation moment" when police discovered a man seen by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner at 21:15 was almost certainly an innocent British holiday-maker collecting his two-year-old daughter from a nearby crèche.

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Is a two year old that size???

by tiny 15.10.13 10:50

Is this a case of use a sprat(tanners sighting thrown out)to catch a mackerel(smiths sighting brought in)

by riskybuisness 15.10.13 10:50

He suggested further progress in the case required Portuguese police to reopen their investigation.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Police have issued e-fit images of men they want to trace

Are the 2nd on the left on the top row and the 1st from the left on the 2nd row not the same person (cover the mouths) - Where did the top one of these come from - I can't recall seeing it before.

I know the 2 colour ones are 'meant' to be the same person

by MoonGoddess 15.10.13 10:50

bit of a long read, but Pat Brown sums it up for me....

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I think this sums it up for me..... on reflection, I think Redwood has been bought in as a 'clean up' man....

by MoonGoddess 15.10.13 10:53

tegan1973 wrote:
Dr What wrote:The only point I can think of as to why Redwood concentrated on burglars, charity workers, people talking in the street[?], is that he is hoping one of this fraternity will have seen something on that night whilst engaged in their particular activity, that will back up the Smith sighting and will come forward.
I really can not believe that Redwood thinks that potential thieves and burglars turn into child kidnappers overnight. But they might have seen something.
Wouldn't the charity workers and burglars be Portuguese and unable to watch the show because its not broadcast there?

even if they were able to watch it - are they really gonna call up and say 'yeah I was there coining it in with a charity scam' or 'yeah I was robbing there robbing the apartments'.... nah

by tegan1973 15.10.13 10:58

MoonGoddess wrote:
tegan1973 wrote:
Dr What wrote:The only point I can think of as to why Redwood concentrated on burglars, charity workers, people talking in the street[?], is that he is hoping one of this fraternity will have seen something on that night whilst engaged in their particular activity, that will back up the Smith sighting and will come forward.
I really can not believe that Redwood thinks that potential thieves and burglars turn into child kidnappers overnight. But they might have seen something.
Wouldn't the charity workers and burglars be Portuguese and unable to watch the show because its not broadcast there?
even if they were able to watch it - are they really gonna call up and say 'yeah I was there coining it in with a charity scam' or 'yeah I was robbing there robbing the apartments'....

Oh yes!! The more I think about this case and the ridiculous show last night, the more my head spins

by worriedmum 15.10.13 11:04

tegan1973 wrote:
Dr What wrote:The only point I can think of as to why Redwood concentrated on burglars, charity workers, people talking in the street[?], is that he is hoping one of this fraternity will have seen something on that night whilst engaged in their particular activity, that will back up the Smith sighting and will come forward.
I really can not believe that Redwood thinks that potential thieves and burglars turn into child kidnappers overnight. But they might have seen something.
Wouldn't the charity workers and burglars be Portuguese and unable to watch the show because its not broadcast there?,

Great point tegan. And Dr What , wouldn't it be good if the charity workers HAD seen something?

by **tigger** 15.10.13 11:07

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And here is a little gallery of seriously proposed abductors, seems the top right is getting a new airing.

by ProfessorPPlum 15.10.13 11:08

Having had a night to sleep on it (a luxury that I suspect the McCanns won't have enjoyed), I've woken up entirely confident about this situation. Here's my logic:

Suppose Redwood wants to nail the McCanns.
Suppose he needs to shift public attention to the 'real' sighting - the Smiths at 10pm
How can he do it?
Ah, yes. Through the medium of the McCanns' own propaganda machine.
(cue background negotiations with BBC)
Crimewatch offers McCanns another propaganda oppportunity. They gladly (particularly in light of the libel trial) accept. Gleefully even.
Redwood used programme to tell the UK 'Tanner was mistaken. Smith sighting our focus. Here's an e-fit. Now get in touch UK'

Result?

Potential corroborating witnesses to Gerry McCann look-alike carrying unnaturally sleeping child towards sea at 10pm following an alleged abduction for which there remains NO evidence but the McCanns' say so. Millions of people now focused on the objective evidence (for the first time). Hundreds of thousands reading GAs book for the first time. Thousands reading this forum for the first time.

I now believe that SY is pulling the legs off this spider one by one. The McCanns must be (and, judging by reports of how they looked last night, are) close to breakdown.

by Guest 15.10.13 11:16

Metropolitan Police ‏@metpoliceuk [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Find all the new lines of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] enquiries plotted on an interactive map [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 15.10.13 11:17

Why can they only show this for 24 hours due to legal reasons?

BBC Crimewatch ‏@BBCCrimewatch [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Remember if you missed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's only on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for 24 hours for legal reasons. Individual appeals stay on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] website

by InspectorJacquesClouseau 15.10.13 11:18

Newbie here, so this is my first post: I've been a fan of the BBC's Crimewatch programme ever since it first began to broadcast police requests for help from the public to solve some of the worst crimes they have to investigate. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong; but it has always, in my experience, been apparent that the victim's relatives or the victims themselves, when they are prepared to go public on live TV, always find themselves seated close by the investigating officer when they are making their live TV appeals. In fact I have also noticed that the appeals are made in the open plan rooms with police officers sat in the background getting on with their work. I have never known the victims or their family members being annexed away from the police, and certainly not the investigating officer who always sits alongside of them and offers words of support and comfort. Why then were the McCann's an exception?

by Shrike 15.10.13 11:20

candyfloss wrote:Why can they only show this for 24 hours due to legal reasons?

BBC Crimewatch ‏@BBCCrimewatch [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Remember if you missed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's only on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for 24 hours for legal reasons. Individual appeals stay on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] website

Can somebody video it and upload?

by AndyB 15.10.13 11:21

@ProfessorPlum

I see where you're coming from but my problem is this:
Suppose Redwood was conducting a whitewash - what would be different?

by Guest 15.10.13 11:22

From Professor David Wilson.....

Prof David Wilson ‏@ProfDavidWilson [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] sorry but I'm struggling to see what's new - despite that word and "revelatory" being used every two sentences.

by Guest 15.10.13 11:23

Shrike wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Why can they only show this for 24 hours due to legal reasons?

BBC Crimewatch ‏@BBCCrimewatch [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Remember if you missed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's only on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for 24 hours for legal reasons. Individual appeals stay on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] website
Can somebody video it and upload?

It's already on youtube, and here on Joana's site..........

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by Dr What 15.10.13 11:24

It doesn't fill one with much confidence.........the dot indicating where Jane Tanner had her 'sighting' is in the wrong place, I believe.

by Mirage 15.10.13 11:25

I have just watched "Crimewatch's Madeleine McCann reconstruction" on Youtube. There's a part I wanted to revisit having noticed it last night.
It concerns the early part where Kirsty Young is asking the McCanns about the "Madeleine-shaped hole" in their lives. G is replying with the bit about big family occasions being the worst and K chips in at around 0.28 to echo the same sentiment. At 0.29 G does what looks like one of his involuntary body squirms, but as he does so, he seems - to my eye anyway - to bump against K's arm as if signalling something. If you freeze/stagger the action you should see it. I don't think I am exaggerating when I say it seems to knock her slightly sideways. Afterwards she seems to dry up and look upset and then uncomfortable. She attempts a slight smile but it doesn't look right. I hope the link is correct. Anyway, it's the Telegraph one
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by Guest 15.10.13 11:26

UK Justice Forum ‏@Justice_forum [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
In [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] case, British tourist claims it "might have been him" Tanner saw carrying child around on cold night wearing only pyjamas?

karen ‏@k1482 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Except he would have been going the wrong way?

UK Justice Forum ‏@Justice_forum [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ...and conveniently it took him 6½ years to come forward with this so-called crucial information despite the British publicity.

by Cristobell 15.10.13 11:26

Seems to me Creche man has been brought into the equation to avoid calling Jane Tanner a liar. Amazingly, for over 6 years it never occurred to him to contact the police or the mccanns' dodgy detectives to let them know he was in the vicinity at the crucial time, carrying a small child in pyjamas.

So Scotland Yard have now made Jane Tanner's apparition real, apart from the fact that she is probably as astonished as the rest of us, this 'real' man must exist, must have a name etc, and must have a bloody good excuse for perverting the course of justice. There must be creche records showing him dropping his child off and picking his child up, creche staff presumably don't just hand over sleeping pyjama clad children to just anyone. He is still not a very good parent though, because as Jane said, it was chilly and the child had no blanket and bare feet whilst the man was wearing a jacket.

Creche man, should he actually exist, will surely be the most vilified person on the planet. His failure to come forward derailed the entire Portuguese investigation and has prevented any meaningful search this past 6 years.

by garfy 15.10.13 11:27

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hope the pics work first time i have done it]

the plane picture is what mr smith saw as being the man he saw that night

the top efit is like a drawn potrait of gm 6 year ago

by Guest 15.10.13 11:29

ProfessorPPlum wrote:Having had a night to sleep on it (a luxury that I suspect the McCanns won't have enjoyed), I've woken up entirely confident about this situation. Here's my logic:

Suppose Redwood wants to nail the McCanns.
Suppose he needs to shift public attention to the 'real' sighting - the Smiths at 10pm
How can he do it?
Ah, yes. Through the medium of the McCanns' own propaganda machine.
(cue background negotiations with BBC)
Crimewatch offers McCanns another propaganda oppportunity. They gladly (particularly in light of the libel trial) accept. Gleefully even.
Redwood used programme to tell the UK 'Tanner was mistaken. Smith sighting our focus. Here's an e-fit. Now get in touch UK'

Result?

Potential corroborating witnesses to Gerry McCann look-alike carrying unnaturally sleeping child towards sea at 10pm following an alleged abduction for which there remains NO evidence but the McCanns' say so. Millions of people now focused on the objective evidence (for the first time). Hundreds of thousands reading GAs book for the first time. Thousands reading this forum for the first time.

I now believe that SY is pulling the legs off this spider one by one. The McCanns must be (and, judging by reports of how they looked last night, are) close to breakdown.

Added to which they cannot risk venturing into Portugal ever again, as surely pulling the rug from under Dear Jane is a new fact warranting te re-opening of the PJ investigation, and the arrest of -at the very least- Button-man look alike GM?

So this is the ultimate test: damned if he does, damned if he doesn't: show up before Lady Melo y Castro

by stillsloppingout 15.10.13 11:36

Post's this morning have been asking why AR did not sit with the McCann's , which is the normal protocol .

My take is ;

To give the impression he is keeping a professional distance , by not sitting next to them ,he is giving them a clear platform to communicate there point without the Officer there , which people now due to Phillpott's etc, associate copper in the middle with guilty party either side .

It is clever strategy by there team only, and NOT for the common good .

Pat Brown's blog today, sums it up perfectly IMO . [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Furthermore , why bits have been cut .

Because SY would have looked at the finished product , then read site's like this ,noted the pitfalls and acted on them .

There was nothing last night that inspires me with any hope . BTW AND I WILL POST IN BIG LETTTERS . KNOWING HOW THE NATIONAL PRESS WORK . I FULLY EXPECT THEM TO TRACE , OR APPEAL FOR THIS MYSTERY MAN ,THE ONE CARRYING HIS CHILD INNOCENTLY , TO COME FORWARD NOW ? TO TELL HIS STORY .

THEY WOULD ALWAYS DO THIS . BUT I BET THEY DONT BECAUSE THIS MAN DOES NOT EXIST . HE IS JUST A CONVENIENT FIGURE OF THE METS IMAGINATION , TO GAIN A TIMELINE AND TIDY LOOSE ENDS .

' FIND THE BUNDLEMAN PROOVE YOU DID IT !!!!!!! '

by chillyheat 15.10.13 11:45

Hi all, first time poster. I have not looked at this case for some time. Just inputting my observations on CW. You will notice the McCanns are seated on a large sofa. They possibly thought they were going to get support from Redwood. Also, if you re watch it. As the scene leads from the conversation with Redwood to the joining the McCanns on the sofa, Redwood does not move a bit. Its as if he has given the impression that the McCanns must do the live part alone. Take a look....He only moves as soon as the live interview takes place....Strange

by garfy 15.10.13 11:50

Mirage wrote:I have just watched "Crimewatch's Madeleine McCann reconstruction" on Youtube. There's a part I wanted to revisit having noticed it last night.
It concerns the early part where Kirsty Young is asking the McCanns about the "Madeleine-shaped hole" in their lives. G is replying with the bit about big family occasions being the worst and K chips in at around 0.28 to echo the same sentiment. At 0.29 G does what looks like one of his involuntary body squirms, but as he does so, he seems - to my eye anyway - to bump against K's arm as if signalling something. If you freeze/stagger the action you should see it. I don't think I am exaggerating when I say it seems to knock her slightly sideways. Afterwards she seems to dry up and look upset and then uncomfortable. She attempts a slight smile but it doesn't look right. I hope the link is correct. Anyway, it's the Telegraph one
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vidio unavailable

but what strange words......family occasions being the worst...[how many of those do they have like] so not very often

you would have thought ....every second of every day a hole that can never be filled without maddie

by chillyheat 15.10.13 11:51

ChillyHeat wrote:Hi all, first time poster. I have not looked at this case for some time. Just inputting my observations on CW. You will notice the McCanns are seated on a large sofa. They possibly thought they were going to get support from Redwood. Also, if you re watch it. As the scene leads from the conversation with Redwood to the joining the McCanns on the sofa, Redwood does not move a bit. Its as if he has given the impression that the McCanns must do the live part alone. Take a look....He only moves as soon as the live interview takes place....Strange

Or was they seated away from the call in area so they could not hear any calls that may have been calling in ???
It was a strange scene in that studio.

by Guest 15.10.13 11:52

garfy wrote:
Mirage wrote:I have just watched "Crimewatch's Madeleine McCann reconstruction" on Youtube. There's a part I wanted to revisit having noticed it last night.
It concerns the early part where Kirsty Young is asking the McCanns about the "Madeleine-shaped hole" in their lives. G is replying with the bit about big family occasions being the worst and K chips in at around 0.28 to echo the same sentiment. At 0.29 G does what looks like one of his involuntary body squirms, but as he does so, he seems - to my eye anyway - to bump against K's arm as if signalling something. If you freeze/stagger the action you should see it. I don't think I am exaggerating when I say it seems to knock her slightly sideways. Afterwards she seems to dry up and look upset and then uncomfortable. She attempts a slight smile but it doesn't look right. I hope the link is correct. Anyway, it's the Telegraph one
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vidio unavailable

but what strange words......family occasions being the worst...[how many of those do they have like] so not very often

you would have thought ....every second of every day a hole that can never be filled without maddie

It's on Joana Morais site, I posted the link a few posts back.

by Mirage 15.10.13 11:52

garfy wrote:
Mirage wrote:I have just watched "Crimewatch's Madeleine McCann reconstruction" on Youtube. There's a part I wanted to revisit having noticed it last night.
It concerns the early part where Kirsty Young is asking the McCanns about the "Madeleine-shaped hole" in their lives. G is replying with the bit about big family occasions being the worst and K chips in at around 0.28 to echo the same sentiment. At 0.29 G does what looks like one of his involuntary body squirms, but as he does so, he seems - to my eye anyway - to bump against K's arm as if signalling something. If you freeze/stagger the action you should see it. I don't think I am exaggerating when I say it seems to knock her slightly sideways. Afterwards she seems to dry up and look upset and then uncomfortable. She attempts a slight smile but it doesn't look right. I hope the link is correct. Anyway, it's the Telegraph one
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
vidio unavailable

but what strange words......family occasions being the worst...[how many of those do they have like] so not very often

you would have thought ....every second of every day a hole that can never be filled without maddie