Re: Oscar Pistorius

by sami 25.02.13 15:09

Châtelaine wrote:
Woofer wrote: [...]
What clinches it for me is that she had her phone with her in the toilet (if this is actually true) - we shall have to wait an see what evidence is produced by the police and whether the judge believes them.
***
Yep, that's what clinches me too. I've personally never locked a toiletdoor, when there are family or friends around, let alone a lover ... And I can think of only one reason to take my mobile there at 3 o'clock in the morning. BTW it was the prosecutor, who gave this information.

Secretly texting someone on valentines morning is a reason to have a phone with you. I'm not suggesting she was but it is a reason why someone might have a phone in that situation with a door locked.

They were not together very long according to the press reports about three months, so they were lovers for that period of time at most, it could also have been just a matter of weeks, depends on people's choices I suppose. Was it a case of being slightly modest at the start of a new relationship? That might account for a closed door, though locking an en-suite door is highly unusual, although not unheard of.

The only things that will give an indication of what might have happened will be the forensics and autopsy report.

What a terrible mess for the families and friends of these two young people.

by aiyoyo 25.02.13 15:13

Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.

'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.

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Interesting! He knew exactly where to shoot and he knew the intruder wasn't armed. Else at that close proximity he was endangering himself and there is no way he could wrestle with or run away on his stumps from an intruder armed or otherwise.

by aiyoyo 25.02.13 15:15

[quote="aiyoyo"]Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.

'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.

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Interesting! He knew exactly where to shoot and he knew the intruder wasn't armed. Else at that close proximity there is no way he could wrestle with or run away on his stumps from an intruder armed or otherwise.

by sami 25.02.13 15:43

[quote="aiyoyo"]

aiyoyo wrote:Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.

'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.

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Interesting! He knew exactly where to shoot and he knew the intruder wasn't armed. Else at that close proximity there is no way he could wrestle with or run away on his stumps from an intruder armed or otherwise.

The defence also said they found a cartridge in the toilet that the police had missed. So I assume at least one shot went in the direction of the toilet. If it is to the left of the door how do you get to be that accurate ? I know nothing about guns, can you fire sideways through a closed door ?

by Liz Eagles 25.02.13 16:09

The police also missed a bullet in my house when I was held hostage.

by sami 25.02.13 20:25

aquila wrote:The police also missed a bullet in my house when I was held hostage.

I am very sorry to hear you had such an experience and hope you have managed to recover in so far as is possible from such an experience

by Liz Eagles 25.02.13 21:23

@Sami. Thanks and yes I'm recovering from the episode. We were lucky unlike Reeva Steenkamp.

Hopefully now there is a top police officer on the case Pistorius' house will yield every scrap of forensic evidence.

by Guest 25.02.13 21:41

There was a top police detective on the case, who's been sidelined now with "something" he'd been cleared of years ago [if I understand correctly what's been in the papers].

by Inspectorfrost 25.02.13 21:49

Châtelaine wrote:There was a top police detective on the case, who's been sidelined now with "something" he'd been cleared of years ago [if I understand correctly what's been in the papers].

Charges were dropped first time around against him and other police who were chasing and shot at escaped prisoners IIRC, but don't quote me. I am envisioning this is going to be a very murky affair, unless it's JUST coincidence just like it was JUST coincidence when Mr Amaral was made an arguido straight after Maddies disappearance.

Aquila, how horrible for you. can't begin to imagine. Hope you have peace now.

by aiyoyo 26.02.13 6:52

The prosecutor says: "The applicant armed himself, attached his prosthesis, walked seven metres to the bathroom and shot the deceased while she was in the toilet. He shot four times...There's no possible explanation to support his report that he thought it was a burglar,' The prosecutor said. 'If I arm myself, walk a distance and murder a person, that is premeditated. 'The door is closed. There is no doubt. I walk seven metres and I kill. The motive is 'I want to kill'. That's it,' he added. 'This deceased was in a 1.4 by 1.14 metre little room. She could go nowhere."
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by Inspectorfrost 26.02.13 21:52

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Dont know how much of this is true or rumour, but there might be a motive, jealousy.

by olipet 26.02.13 22:28

A sad dark murky event and one I would not want to speculate on. Very sad that Reeva has died and very sad to see OP in such extreme distress. Wouldn't begin to compare this with MM disappearance by a stretch. All involved are seemingly truly truly broken.

by aiyoyo 27.02.13 4:08

Every murder has a motive and with a young couple with past, and freshly dating from past relationships it is always jealousy, ie if this is a crime of passion.

If her ex did send her a Valentine-day message then the message will be part of her phone records, which may or may not have anything
to do with the reason for her murder.

A person violence in nature needs very little excuse to flare up, and if not pacified quickly cant go out of control. So any factor could have caused the fit of fury leading to the tragedy. He may even have perceived something that wasn't there and worked himself into a frenzy because some people are just possessive by nature. Combined possessiveness with violent streak then it is a recipe for disaster waiting to happen.

by olipet 27.02.13 22:43

look this tragedy may be exactly as it has been presented by the defence. i don't think it is pleasant to be judging like this at this time. this is not the case of the mccanns and their daughter madeleine - ie. no one helped the police etc. OP has done everything requested by him and is currently allegedly mourning so i reckon give them all a bit of privacy and respect. opinions on motive and lovers tiffs is salacious behaviour and fine for the dinner party with friends but not here for all to read and get their jollies - my personal opinion.

by Inspectorfrost 27.02.13 22:45

olipet wrote:look this tragedy may be exactly as it has been presented by the defence. i don't think it is pleasant to be judging like this at this time. this is not the case of the mccanns and their daughter madeleine - ie. no one helped the police etc. OP has done everything requested by him and is currently allegedly mourning so i reckon give them all a bit of privacy and respect. opinions on motive and lovers tiffs is salacious behaviour and fine for the dinner party with friends but not here for all to read and get their jollies - my personal opinion.

Not getting my jollies by any death here thanks olie

by tiny 12.03.13 14:48

on sky(online)yesterday.

Oscar Pistorius Wants To Leave South Africa

Lawyers for the Olympic star say he should have the option of travelling outside South Africa while on bail charged with murder.

I bet he does

by Guest 12.03.13 14:50

Perhaps he plans to join Srien Dewani over here in the UK and delay extradition proceedings for years on end.......

by tiny 12.03.13 14:52

Jean wrote:Perhaps he plans to join Srien Dewani over here in the UK and delay extradition proceedings for years on end.......

I thought exactly the same.

by jd 12.03.13 18:15

PRETORIA, South Africa — The lead investigator in the murder case against Oscar Pistorius faces attempted murder charges himself over a 2011 shooting, police said Thursday.

South Africa's National Prosecuting Authority acknowledged that the timing of attempted murder charges against a police detective leading the investigation into Oscar Pistorius is "totally weird" and that he should be dropped from the case against the world-famous athlete.

Bulewa Makeke, spokeswoman for the NPA, said Thursday that detective Hilton Botha should be replaced, but that it's a decision for police and not prosecutors.

Malila said police learned Wednesday, the same day that Botha appeared in court to oppose Pistorius' bail application, that the charges against Botha and the two others had been reinstated by the Director of Public Prosecutions. They were initially dropped following the shooting incident.

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.....Remind you of someone else in another case?

by Guest 12.03.13 21:23

Oh, yeah ...

by aiyoyo 13.03.13 2:33

tiny wrote:on sky(online)yesterday.

Oscar Pistorius Wants To Leave South Africa

Lawyers for the Olympic star say he should have the option of travelling outside South Africa while on bail charged with murder.

I bet he does

He said he did not run away from the crime scene, won't take flight if allowed bail, now this......

Behavior of an innocent? Not on a jollie me....but isn't it so obvious?

It was reported he will be sentenced to jail regardless whether the charge be premeditated murder or culpable homicide or negligence homicide as he knowingly shot a person knowing that person is in a confined cubicle and cant go any where.

by Liz Eagles 13.03.13 9:45

According to South African newspapers it seems OP's legal team are trying to change the bail conditions. His uncle Arnold owns a farm in Mozambique and would like to take OP there to get away from media attention, hence the need to get his passport back.

It's a bit rich imo to try and change the bail conditions to allow him to leave South Africa. He was fortunate to be granted bail.

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by jd 13.03.13 11:56

2011...
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by plebgate 13.03.13 19:06

If he wants to change his bail conditions would that mean another hearing before the judge? If the judge knows he want to leave the country then he might decide that OP might be a flight risk and order him detained until the trial.
These people are never satisfied. Always want more and more. I think they really do believe the hype which surrounds them - made up by advertisers to sell, sell, sell.
Nobody really cares much about them. Once they are out of the news for a week or so they are forgottenby the public but it is amazing how many never seem to realise it.

by Liz Eagles 14.03.13 12:33

I watched this documentary on BBC3 last night. It's now on News24 (SA).

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by aiyoyo 14.03.13 13:01

plebgate wrote:If he wants to change his bail conditions would that mean another hearing before the judge? If the judge knows he want to leave the country then he might decide that OP might be a flight risk and order him detained until the trial.
These people are never satisfied. Always want more and more. I think they really do believe the hype which surrounds them - made up by advertisers to sell, sell, sell.
Nobody really cares much about them. Once they are out of the news for a week or so they are forgottenby the public but it is amazing how many never seem to realise it.

The excuse he used is pathetic. No matter where he intends to go, he will always be of interest to the local press, he wont be free from media attention.
No Judge would be stupid not to realise his ruse.

by sallypelt 14.03.13 13:41

I watched the programme, too. What I can't get my head around is when OP said he got out of bed IN THE DARK, to bring in the fan and close the balcony doors. In the meantime, Reeva got out of bed which MUST have been in the dark, too, when she went to the toilet, as OP said he didn't turn on the light until after the shooting. So, why didn't Reeva turn on the light, or say something to OP as she passed him?

by jozi 14.03.13 15:23

sallypelt wrote:I watched the programme, too. What I can't get my head around is when OP said he got out of bed IN THE DARK, to bring in the fan and close the balcony doors. In the meantime, Reeva got out of bed which MUST have been in the dark, too, when she went to the toilet, as OP said he didn't turn on the light until after the shooting. So, why didn't Reeva turn on the light, or say something to OP as she passed him?

None of his story makes any sense at all,I live in SA and we cannot shoot at any intruders, you have to fire a warning shot first and if your life is in danger then shoot. This is where the premeditated murder comes in. He thought there was an intruder in the toilet in the bathroom,even if there was, you cannot shoot.He's stuffed either way.

The first thing you do if you do hear a noise is check where everyone is,set off the alarm if you still think someone has broken in.Then arm yourself if you are still lucky to own a gun,the laws have changed so much here only the criminals have guns.

by Guest 14.03.13 17:06

I still cannot get over the fact, that she locked herself into the toilet with her cellphone at 3am ...

by jozi 14.03.13 20:50

Châtelaine wrote:I still cannot get over the fact, that she locked herself into the toilet with her cellphone at 3am ...

I think she thought she was safer in the toilet and intended to phone someone to come and help her, but arguments escalate and I think he thought I will show you. come out and fired bang bang bang in quick succession. I don't think he intended to kill her but he has a temper and thinks he can do what he likes as most celebrities do. he has been in trouble before with his temper and through drink .This time it went horribly wrong though .

Her scull was crushed I have heard but was that because of the gun shot wound or the cricket bat found at the scene with blood on it ?
I suppose time will tell when the trial starts , trouble is we only have one version of the events that took place and have to sort the wheat from the chaff , poor Reeva is not here to tell her side !

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