Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

by **tigger** 11.12.12 7:35

From the official FindMadeline site:

quote

(3) Why is Madeleine's Fund not registered as a charity?

Because Madeleine's Fund is currently focussed on searching for one child only, Madeleine McCann it cannot register as a charity. However in the future, if the objects of the fund are fulfilled and subsequently changed to concentrate on multiple similar cases, it may then be possible to acquire charitable status.
unquote

Here are relevant passages from the O'Dowd report:

So if the Fund, set up in record time and presumably at considerable expense, was to find Madeleine, why did it, as Kate herself tells us, do very little for the first four months of its existence other than to collect money and follow up the odd piece of information outside Portugal?

[...]

A Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Charity Commission revealed several emails, telephone calls and a telephone conference between BWB and the Charity Commission about the possibility of charity status, for the then unincorporated company, between Monday afternoon May 14 and Tuesday May 15.

The minutes of the telephone conference held between BWB and the Charity Commission on the morning of Tuesday May 15 record that Alice Holt would look at revising the draft document to a form more acceptable to the Commission. The minutes also record that Commission official Kenneth Dibble was concerned that the press conference set for the next day might send out confused messages to the public unless it was settled what the fund could and could not be used for.

At 1.10 pm on May 15 the Charity Commission received an email from BWB saying their clients were likely to go the ordinary company route rather than pursue charity status. When that email was received Ms Holt was just finalising her promised revisions to the documents submitted to her the previous day. She sent her revised document anyway at 1.28 pm. To meet the Fund launch date of May 16, the McCanns had obviously decided to abandon the apparently hopeful charity negotiations in order to meet the deadline for same day company incorporation. Documents must be filed by 3pm for the company to be incorporated on that day.

[......] And it is clear from the documentation that the Charity Commission officials were helpful, and that it was likely that charity status could have been obtained with only minor delay with a little compromise by the McCanns.

[...]

And after they incorporated the company in 24 hours, BWB applied for British and European trade marks on 18 May 2007 and was given the reference 2456061. These trademarks protected fundraising, internet and print promotions. Again this action was unprecedented at this very early stage in a missing person case.

unquote

by Ribisl 13.12.12 20:36

tigger wrote under another topic:

Thanks! Ribisl. I was hoping someone would put me right on the fine line between avoidance and evasion.
On that subject, do you know if donations to a Ltd. Company should be taxed? (see Fund topic) I can't find it anywhere on Google.

Any limited company incorporated in the UK is liable for Corporation Tax on its profit but not on donations. They had a large income at the start as a result of public donations which would be non-taxable and it has been offset against costs over the years. But they don’t trade, so there is no taxable profit. Having had a quick look at their annual reports and from the limited information available, it looks like they have been paying tax on interest only.

If they employ paid staff, then they would also be responsible for PAYE (a witholding tax on income) but there are many other ways of acquiring assistants without having direct employees.

Fund raising events may or may not be exempt from VAT depending on how you set them up and what rules you follow. With all the expert advice available to them, however, I have no doubt that the McCanns have been making sure of avoiding paying this kind of tax.

I am sure their company was set up and run correctly within the law and if would be highly unlikely that they would allow themselves to be open of accusations of possible fiscal fraud imo. Unless, of course, it can be proved that they did set up the fund under a false premise that their daughter was missing while knowing full well that she was already dead and buried.

by **PeterMac** 13.12.12 21:14

Ribisl wrote:Unless, of course, it can be proved that they did set up the fund under a false premise that their daughter was missing while knowing full well that she was already dead and buried.

In which case the directors, the lawyers, the accountants, the beneficiaries, the apologists . . . ?
Not to mention the Tapasniks who so generously donated their ~~winnings,~~ agreed damages

by Guest 13.12.12 22:12

Not holding my breath yet, as new accounts not due until the very last deadline end of this month. But it will start [holding my breath] say 15 days from now ...

by **tigger** 14.12.12 9:09

Ribisl wrote:tigger wrote under another topic:
Thanks! Ribisl. I was hoping someone would put me right on the fine line between avoidance and evasion.
On that subject, do you know if donations to a Ltd. Company should be taxed? (see Fund topic) I can't find it anywhere on Google.
Any limited company incorporated in the UK is liable for Corporation Tax on its profit but not on donations. They had a large income at the start as a result of public donations which would be non-taxable and it has been offset against costs over the years. But they don’t trade, so there is no taxable profit. Having had a quick look at their annual reports and from the limited information available, it looks like they have been paying tax on interest only.

If they employ paid staff, then they would also be responsible for PAYE (a witholding tax on income) but there are many other ways of acquiring assistants without having direct employees.

Fund raising events may or may not be exempt from VAT depending on how you set them up and what rules you follow. With all the expert advice available to them, however, I have no doubt that the McCanns have been making sure of avoiding paying this kind of tax.

I am sure their company was set up and run correctly within the law and if would be highly unlikely that they would allow themselves to be open of accusations of possible fiscal fraud imo. Unless, of course, it can be proved that they did set up the fund under a false premise that their daughter was missing while knowing full well that she was already dead and buried.

Thank you for that clear explanation.
I did an NVQ in business studies years ago in which this issue never arose. What did arise was the payment of national security contributions, the deductable posts and the bands of tax applied to various entries. Donation never came up as an entry. What did come up was what Ms. O'Dowd also pointed out as being tax deductable issues. She points out that one entry probably refers to the use of a room in their house as an office.
Although that isn't clear from the accounts.
However, all money earned from the sale of the books should be taxed as it is earned income? That might be the main reason why it hasn't shown up in the accounts to date. Even the advance is an advance on earned royalties and should be taxed accordingly.

It is then clear why there was little point in setting up a charity. Donations were going to be the main income and the very large donations which would not qualify for tax relief to a Ltd. Co. were imo going to come in anyway from a small group of people who would donate for reasons of their own.

The tax relief on small donations of private individuals would negligible for the people concerned. So this Fund was extremely well thought out in a very short space of time.
We might even be tempted to see what was said about the income from the book: that it would be used to search for Madeleine. I wonder if it states anywhere that the money would be paid into the Fund. There's always Jersey, off shore, Switserland.

The quality of their accountants is inversely proportional to the quality of their detectives. winkwink

by **tigger** 07.01.13 19:31

To date the Fund accounts showing as overdue.... I hope Ms. Enid O'Dowd is standing by when they are submitted.

by Guest 08.01.13 0:06

I think there's a lot of people waiting with baited breath for the accounts! It might just be delays after the holidays - perhaps they're in a pile waiting to be processed.

by Smokeandmirrors 08.01.13 7:20

Well, if the book money is not in the fund, as was promised and marketed by the Mc's themselves in interviews on TV and promos etc, then that will tell the general public all they need to know about the fund, a fact that would need to be publicised far and wide IMO.

by Inspectorfrost 09.01.13 18:59

The advance for the book, sales, royalties, and all that palava, plus the sun newspaper pay out for the serialisation, all surely in the hundreds of thousands, should be in the accounts, or will the fund be operating at a loss again?

by **tigger** 10.01.13 16:32

Here are the Missing People Charity accounts for 2011 - 2012.

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Salaries have gone up this year... by 191.225,00. Nearly 200.000,- pounds.

by **Nina** 10.01.13 17:33

tigger wrote:Here are the Missing People Charity accounts for 2011 - 2012.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Salaries have gone up this year... by 191.225,00. Nearly 200.000,- pounds.

Well KH/KMcC joined them tigger.
What exactly do these people do though? I am not asking in a sarcastic way now, I just wonder what they actually do to be paid a salary for.
In the past I have been involved in raising funds for charities and it was all done on a voluntary basis, though I spent many hours, happy hours, doing it. So what do they do?

by Guest 10.01.13 17:44

I don't think the increased wage bill is out of the ordinary because there is an overall increase of three full-time staff (page 19, note 4) and there would be increments for existing staff.

I'm not an expert by any means on company accounts but these seem to be well-presented with the "highest transparency" to coin a phrase.

Perhaps the accounts for No Stone Unturned when they eventually are filed will be of a similar high standard?

by **PeterMac** 10.01.13 17:59

The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175

So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

by **Nina** 10.01.13 18:07

PeterMac wrote:The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175
So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

How very strange, what I did was help to run a charity shop of second hand books. The 'shop' was the garage of the local organizer, also she was voluntary, and all the books were donated, we had hundreds of them, and we didn't incur any expenses at all and made a lot of money for the local hospice Cudeca. All profit.

by Liz Eagles 10.01.13 18:43

I don't remember the video or the link but we were informed that KM had given up her job as a part-time locum to concentrate on the search for Madeleine. This is absolutely no criticism of Kate but how does one just give up a job and have no income for five years? Mortgages, children, living expenses etc are all things that need attendance whether we are in good times or bad.

by monkey mind 10.01.13 19:23

aquila wrote:I don't remember the video or the link but we were informed that KM had given up her job as a part-time locum to concentrate on the search for Madeleine. This is absolutely no criticism of Kate but how does one just give up a job and have no income for five years? Mortgages, children, living expenses etc are all things that need attendance whether we are in good times or bad.

Aquila, I know two people who have done just that. The first lives in a cave atop a mountain on the Brecon Beacons and calls himself a breatharian, which means he doesn’t eat food at all. His sustenance comes from pulling prana or chi (energy) from the atmosphere and sungazing 6 hours a day. If the foul weather and cloud cover we’ve been having these recent months continues much longer we fear he may starve.

The other has gone the more orthodox route and is an accomplished criminal/conman.

by Liz Eagles 10.01.13 20:18

monkey mind wrote:
aquila wrote:I don't remember the video or the link but we were informed that KM had given up her job as a part-time locum to concentrate on the search for Madeleine. This is absolutely no criticism of Kate but how does one just give up a job and have no income for five years? Mortgages, children, living expenses etc are all things that need attendance whether we are in good times or bad.
Aquila, I know two people who have done just that. The first lives in a cave atop a mountain on the Brecon Beacons and calls himself a breatharian, which means he doesn’t eat food at all. His sustenance comes from pulling prana or chi (energy) from the atmosphere and sungazing 6 hours a day. If the foul weather and cloud cover we’ve been having these recent months continues much longer we fear he may starve.

I hope good people have helped this breatharian with the use of a 4x4, a smallholding and at least a portfolio to fall back on should the altruistic breath turn to raspberry juice. You never know maybe there'll be enough breath to speak.

The other has gone the more orthodox route and is an accomplished criminal/conman.

This sort of person is perhaps beyond public salvation. This sort of person has too many enemies despite cultivating 'friends'.

by Inspectorfrost 10.01.13 20:45

Some of these charities make me sick! The way they line peoples pockets, and not the people whose pockets donations are intended for
violin

by monkey mind 10.01.13 20:51

Aquila: "This sort of person is perhaps beyond public salvation. This sort of person has too many enemies despite cultivating 'friends'!

Yes!! That's him exactly! You know him don't you? Unfortunately due to a glitch that previous mail was sent before I had finished it, I was about to add....
.../politician.

by **tigger** 11.01.13 6:03

PeterMac wrote:The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175
So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

Although the bulk of the income goes on salaries, paid for by the postcode lottery apparently, it seems a lot of work is done by volunteers. No doubt manning the phone lines and running the charity shop. So one wonders what else there is to do apart from running the 'office'.

I would also like to see a breakdown of the number of people permanently returned to their families as it seems a large number of 'missing people' , once found, leave home again at the earliest opportunity.
The statistics I've seen on another occasion - that over a hundred thousand people go missing each year - don't impress me. Over a ten year period that means at least a million people have gone missing. So how exactly does that work?

by T4two 11.01.13 7:23

tigger wrote:
PeterMac wrote:The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175
So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

Although the bulk of the income goes on salaries, paid for by the postcode lottery apparently, it seems a lot of work is done by volunteers. No doubt manning the phone lines and running the charity shop. So one wonders what else there is to do apart from running the 'office'.

I would also like to see a breakdown of the number of people permanently returned to their families as it seems a large number of 'missing people' , once found, leave home again at the earliest opportunity.
The statistics I've seen on another occasion - that over a hundred thousand people go missing each year - don't impress me. Over a ten year period that means at least a million people have gone missing. So how exactly does that work?

At that rate the complete population of Great Britain would disappear over a period of around 700 years. This could have serious consequences for the economy - when exactly did this rate of disappearance start?

by **PeterMac** 11.01.13 7:33

T4two wrote:
The statistics I've seen on another occasion - that over a hundred thousand people go missing each year - don't impress me. Over a ten year period that means at least a million people have gone missing. So how exactly does that work?

At that rate the complete population of Great Britain would disappear over a period of around 700 years. This could have serious consequences for the economy - when exactly did this rate of disappearance start?

A long time ago.
That is why there are no Neandertals left. No one reported them missing, you see !

by Guest 11.01.13 9:11

I don't think that Neanderthals have died out, judging by the recent troll invasions we've had here!

by **PeterMac** 11.01.13 9:15

Jean wrote:I don't think that Neanderthals have died out, judging by the recent troll invasions we've had here!

That's no way to speak about C-R !

by Guest 11.01.13 9:22

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I was thinking more of some people who have actually posted here. One with a name beginning with N is my favourite at the moment, I hope that nobody else gets jealous. Perhaps PeterMac you could post that troll picture again (the one with a big club) so that our visitors can be saved the time of looking in a mirror.

Sorry Admin, I won't go off topic again!

by aiyoyo 11.01.13 9:44

tigger wrote:From the link above:

These are from the Fund accounts up to 31st March 2008:

Fund professional fees £36,070

What exactly does this cover since legal, audit and accountancy fees are separately charged?

When ambiguous like that it could be anything really. Professional fees taking away lawyers, accountancy, and auditors, could only mean operational staff meaning directors and/or managers who manage the Fund. So it could mean paid to Kate Mcann (as Manager of the Fund) or any of the active Directors (which Gerry and Kate are anyway). You would expect sleeping directors not to be paid. Therefore the sum of $36+ may be paid to one or at most two persons. That is a lot of money when you consider the money is supposed to be for a CAUSE, and the pte ltd company not a commercial business.

If paid to Managers and/or Directors within legal boundaries of Companies House then it is not going to be an issue with Companies House or Tax Authorities. You would suppose the independent Auditors to only qualify and sign the accounts if the operation of the Fund is deemed within legal limits.
It just means that the abuse of the Fund -- not using all or the bulk of it for the stated purpose of Search, is immoral but not illegal.
At the end of the day, an Audit Firm who is willing to take on the Fund Accounts, isn't going to be too concerned whether the use of the fund fits the publicly stated purpose, the Audit Firm is only concerned about lining its pocket.
The illegality or the immorality is the least concern of the Auditors, unless the Fund is under criminal investigation.

Website £37,071

Was a website person employed all through the period? This cost seems very high?

Yes that seems EXCESSIVELY high. Usually set up is expected to cost a bit, but operation cost should be negligible considering it is not heavy duty used and not manned 24/7, and especially considering its purpose is the search for a missing child.

by aiyoyo 11.01.13 9:50

PeterMac wrote:
Jean wrote:I don't think that Neanderthals have died out, judging by the recent troll invasions we've had here!
That's no way to speak about C-R !

Why? Are they supposed to be sub-human creatures not to be mistaken as human beings?
Bullies do not earn respect.
The Truth is our master.

by Guest 11.01.13 9:56

That was of course a joke.

As regards the very expensive website, here's a link to how it was set up.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm sure it doesn't need six people to run it now.

by aiyoyo 11.01.13 10:03

Jean wrote:That was of course a joke.

As regards the very expensive website, here's a link to how it was set up.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm sure it doesn't need six people to run it now.

And my above post is of course NOT a joke. I stand by my say that bullies do not deserve respect regardless.

If there were six people still running it then they must be derelict of duties since the site was left days on end without anyone manning it.
It's just a website for Mccanns to blog really so to speak, why do they need a paid team to man it anyway?
Couldn't Kate manage it since she is committed full time to the search, so she told the public via the media.

by **PeterMac** 11.01.13 11:05

Jean,
Just for you.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The thing he is holding in his right hand is known as a "claim for expenses so far incurred"
It gets bigger every day.

And just as an aside -
Not for nothing do the tales tell of trolls being afraid of the light !
The light turns them to stone.
It stops them in their tracks, so that they cannot go on.
They will do anything to remain in the dark.

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