Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

by Guest 14.02.12 14:39

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 Dscf0119

Those trees are past the third floor of block 5, I really do not think any apartment opposite could have seen a thing.

by Guest 14.02.12 14:41

This set is extremely good taken by Carvalho

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Frederico_D_Carvalho.htm

by Cheshire Cat 14.02.12 16:20

Stella wrote:

Those trees are past the third floor of block 5, I really do not think any apartment opposite could have seen a thing.

The difference is, Pat Brown is actually there, in Praia Da Luz. She is telling it as it is, she is doing real research and speaking to people. It's obvious that the window from where Pat took the photograph looks over these trees and gives a clear view of the carpark roll

by Guest 14.02.12 16:26

With all due respect Cheshire Cat. If you look at the photographs that Pat has taken and compare these with the ones available in 2007, the trees are no longer there and the light bulbs have been all been changed.

There is no need to be quite so rude and we all do real research here, well most of us anyway.

by Guest 14.02.12 16:35

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 Extras_do_livro_Page_3

Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place? scratchhead

$i don\'t know$

by Guest 14.02.12 16:38

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 Praia%2Bda%2BLuz%2B01

Blow Pats picture up Cheshire Cat and you will see that all of the trees in the block 5 carpark, have all been taken down now.

We are credited here as being the number one fourm for good quality discussions, based on evidence and facts and this is how we propose to continue.

by Guest 14.02.12 16:40

candyfloss wrote:

Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

by david_uk 14.02.12 16:48

hmm, think i have to call Pat out on this one!. Those trees in 2007 would have surely obscured any view into goings on at 5a!! especially on an evening.

by Cheshire Cat 14.02.12 16:55

Stella wrote:

Blow Pats picture up Cheshire Cat and you will see that all of the trees in the block 5 carpark, have all been taken down now.

We are credited here as being the number one fourm for good quality discussions, based on evidence and facts and this is how we propose to continue.

I do worry about posters who try to persuade us to have faith in the SY review (despite every one from Amaral, Tony B and Pat Brown being highly sceptical about the review) whilst at the same time attempting to undermine Pat Brown who is reporting her findings in words and pictures. I don't believe Pat is trying to trick us or mislead us and if she says that the appartment opposite offers a clear view of the window of 5a then, seeing as she is physically there in Praia Da Luz, I believe what she is saying to be accurate.

Friedrich Nietzsche · by Daisy 14.02.12 17:22

david_uk wrote:hmm, think i have to call Pat out on this one!. Those trees in 2007 would have surely obscured any view into goings on at 5a!! especially on an evening.

I disagree. According to witnesses that stayed in apt 5A the week before the McCann's, the bedroom was overlooked by other apartments. Again, I'd rather go with the information of people that have actually been there physically, like this witness & Pat Brown. It is nearly impossible to know what views other apartments had from a photograph.

Statement of Saleigh
Gordon: “The bedroom shutters made a lot of noise and I find it difficult
to understand that opening them would go un-noticed. The bedroom overlooked the
parking area and was also overlooked by other apartments from which I think
that if anyone had opened the shutters from outside, somebody would have
noticed”

by **tigger** 14.02.12 17:39

david_uk wrote:hmm, think i have to call Pat out on this one!. Those trees in 2007 would have surely obscured any view into goings on at 5a!! especially on an evening.

Actually, not long after the event Martin Brunt checked out the site on video and measured the distance from the bar to 5a. He also commented on the visibility of 5a from the bar, which I seem to remember wasn't obscures by trees by just a few bushes. I'll have to find that video.

by Guest 14.02.12 17:49

tigger wrote:
david_uk wrote:hmm, think i have to call Pat out on this one!. Those trees in 2007 would have surely obscured any view into goings on at 5a!! especially on an evening.

Actually, not long after the event Martin Brunt checked out the site on video and measured the distance from the bar to 5a. He also commented on the visibility of 5a from the bar, which I seem to remember wasn't obscures by trees by just a few bushes. I'll have to find that video.

Tigger, we are talking about the view from the apartments across the road from the front entrance of 5a, not the tapas bar to the balcony.

by **tigger** 14.02.12 17:52

candyfloss wrote:
tigger wrote:
david_uk wrote:hmm, think i have to call Pat out on this one!. Those trees in 2007 would have surely obscured any view into goings on at 5a!! especially on an evening.

Actually, not long after the event Martin Brunt checked out the site on video and measured the distance from the bar to 5a. He also commented on the visibility of 5a from the bar, which I seem to remember wasn't obscures by trees by just a few bushes. I'll have to find that video.

Tigger, we are talking about the view from the apartments across the road from the front entrance of 5a, not the tapas bar to the balcony.

Damn! And I'd just found the video after an intensive search - so I'll post it all the same. Thanks for putting me straight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akv01Y0pfNY

by Guest 14.02.12 18:51

ProfilerPatBPAT BROWN

New blog will be up tomorrow. Lots of fascinating things...both "sides" may be surprised with some of my findings. #McCann

16 minutes ago

by C.Edwards 14.02.12 19:08

I agree with Stella on this - those trees would have easily been in the way of the windows from the apartment opposite, you can see from their height you'd need to be dozens more stories up to get the angle required to see over the top of those trees.

by ShuBob 14.02.12 19:13

There were gaps between the trees so the view would not have been completely obscured from all the buildings opposite I would have thought.

by **Nina** 14.02.12 19:49

Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:

Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

The top two pictures show the wall as it opens for access slopes up slightly then flat. The third picture is just flat right to the opening.

Friedrich Nietzsche · by Daisy 14.02.12 20:01

Nina wrote:
Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:

Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

The top two pictures show the wall as it opens for access slopes up slightly then flat. The third picture is just flat right to the opening.

I see what you mean. Also, in the first two photos the wall has the 'private parking' sign & a no 5 plaque.

Doesn't appear all 3 pics are of the same location. Looking at them more closely, the trees are different species altogether in the 3rd photo.

by **Nina** 14.02.12 20:12

Daisy wrote:
Nina wrote:
Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:

Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

The top two pictures show the wall as it opens for access slopes up slightly then flat. The third picture is just flat right to the opening.

I see what you mean. Also, in the first two photos the wall has the 'private parking' sign & a no 5 plaque.

Doesn't appear all 3 pics are of the same location. Looking at them more closely, the trees are different species altogether in the 3rd photo.

Hmmmm, the plants are different too in the narrow border just over the wall by the front doors. Yet the building looks exactly the same by comparison.

by Guest 14.02.12 20:28

196 There is a gap in the wall just along from where I took the photo to allow cars to enter and exit the car park and at that point the window is totally exposed. You can however see the window fairly well at any point along the road Dr Francisco Gentil Martins.This was the window, covered in fingerprint dust. By Faithlilly from 3As

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 5aa

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 5aa

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/APARTMENT.htm

by Cheshire Cat 14.02.12 20:32

Nina wrote:
Daisy wrote:
Nina wrote:
Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:

Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

The top two pictures show the wall as it opens for access slopes up slightly then flat. The third picture is just flat right to the opening.

I see what you mean. Also, in the first two photos the wall has the 'private parking' sign & a no 5 plaque.

Doesn't appear all 3 pics are of the same location. Looking at them more closely, the trees are different species altogether in the 3rd photo.

Hmmmm, the plants are different too in the narrow border just over the wall by the front doors. Yet the building looks exactly the same by comparison.

I agree. The photograph with the single tree is 5a; the photograph with several thick trees is not 5a. The photograph with the single tree would allow a clear view of the window as Pat Brown has shown in her photograph. Certainly seems if some people want to undermine Pat Brown and discredit her work! Hmmmmmmmmmmm Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 911419

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 911419

by Guest 14.02.12 20:53

I agree, pictures not of the same exact place. Shape of wall is also different, anf one has a white traffic stripe on the ground near the wall, the other hasn't.

by bobbin 14.02.12 21:06

I've only picked up Portuguese from following this case since inception, so forgive my ?translation?
? front of the block of apartments of Ocean Club
1. Window of Maddie’s bedroom as if it had been opened
2. Route taken by Jane Tanner, Matthew Oldfield and Russel O’brien who would not have been able to avoid seeing the window open. ?
The photographer has moved a bit across the car park, for the night-time photo with the white strip showing the Tapas route taken past the flat.

Friedrich Nietzsche · by Daisy 14.02.12 21:10

Nina wrote:
Hmmmm, the plants are different too in the narrow
border just over the wall by the front doors. Yet the building looks
exactly the same by comparison.

Is the apt block directly to the side of block 5 exactly the same? If so perhaps the (3rd) photo is the front of that block?

Here: http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/bm/28.jpg

by Guest 14.02.12 21:20

I've just had a look at this site below. If you put in Portugal then keep zooming in you eventually come to Luz, keeping zooming and it brings up good picture of apartments. The third photo that has been posted on here looks like it is the other end of the block, with the white zebra crossing and not apartment 5a. The road you are looking for on zoomed map is Rua Dr. Agostinho da Silva which is the road the front of the apartments are on..............

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/google_map_portugal.htm

by Guest 14.02.12 21:25

The photos do show two different entrances. There are the two blocks - block 5 and 4 which are fairly identical. on this picture in the link below, it shows the two blocks from the front and the two entrances. - block 5 is on the left, block 4 on the right. There are two entrances - the entrance in the top 2 photos above with the curved wall is the entrance to block 5 and shows the windows for 5a.... the entrance to block 4 is the 3rd photo above - this one has a straight wall and zebra crossing just to the right of the entrance...

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aerialphotod.gif&target=tlx_piccwty

Hard to tell how high the apartments opposite are and therefore what kind of view they would have had over the trees at the time so reserve judgement on that one..

by Guest 14.02.12 21:35

Stewie wrote:The photos do show two different entrances. There are the two blocks - block 5 and 4 which are fairly identical. on this picture in the link below, it shows the two blocks from the front and the two entrances. - block 5 is on the left, block 4 on the right. There are two entrances - the entrance in the top 2 photos above with the curved wall is the entrance to block 5 and shows the windows for 5a.... the entrance to block 4 is the 3rd photo above - this one has a straight wall and zebra crossing just to the right of the entrance...

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/aerialphotod.gif&target=tlx_piccwty

Hard to tell how high the apartments opposite are and therefore what kind of view they would have had over the trees at the time so reserve judgement on that one..

Yes, thanks Stewie, that is what I saw on that link I put up. Two buildings, the photos posted here earlier where of each end of that double block.

ETA There is a little narrow walkway between the two buildings.

by Cheshire Cat 14.02.12 22:27

candyfloss wrote:I've just had a look at this site below. If you put in Portugal then keep zooming in you eventually come to Luz, keeping zooming and it brings up good picture of apartments. The third photo that has been posted on here looks like it is the other end of the block, with the white zebra crossing and not apartment 5a. The road you are looking for on zoomed map is Rua Dr. Agostinho da Silva which is the road the front of the apartments are on..............

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/google_map_portugal.htm

Pat Brown has the advantage of being in Praia Da Luz. She is able to see how things are now and also ask people how things were in 2007. She is meticulous in her work and in her reporting. Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 259100

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words - Page 2 259100

by aiyoyo 14.02.12 22:32

maebee wrote:
Gerry - when reporting the abduction to the family had found time to check - no valuables were taken.

Says a lot about what he thought about his first-born.

Who would think of checking valuables when they have one child missing? That would be last on their mind.
A burglar never take a child and an abductor never take valuables.
This is another forensics linguistics moment. They knew exactly what happened to her - that no one took her, but they made a point to check valuables (or to say that they'd done so) to fit in' their stranger had been in the place story'..

by aiyoyo 15.02.12 6:11

tigger wrote:If I were an abductor and had been stalking the McCanns, 'cased' 5a for entry and exits, the only real advantage the apartment had was that it was next to the car park?

But no car was used, according to the evidence, unless it was parked at the other end of PdL and a brisk walk with a heavy load - hoping not to be seen - was the method used. So up to the actual abduction, the abductors functioned quite rationally - planning and observing - after that, brain meltdown.
Psychologically and realistically, it simply won't work.

If the abductor was stalking the mccanns and had a key, surely there are better days to do the deed than May3rd when frequent rota checking were going on!

What about the night the children were allegedly left alone, where one of them was reported crying for hours, as the adults had gone allegedly from Tapas Restaurant to another drinking hole 10 mins away - Tuesday it must be when Bingo was on. Why didn't the abductor enter then? If he was stalking them surely he must know they were gone far enough away.

This "abductor" tale is a whole shitload of bull - why do a dry run, why when he has a key wait until may 3rd where human traffic from the group is fluid.

Don't forget, having multiple entrance and exit points must be useful for the mccanns as well, especially if they'd observed they are wide-opened to observations from one side.