Never was in Donegal at all.

by **tigger** 03.11.11 7:06

Newintown wrote:
anil39200 wrote:easter break in donegal,Portugese holiday in may, some NHS people get lots of holidays dont they? (its ok, its an in joke here)

Perhaps Madeleine went to Donegal with the McCann family and never came back. She could still be there and the Portugal holiday was just a charade to make believe she'd disappeared. I've always wondered if the "Fund" was just a money making venture to boost the bank accounts of K & G as they were rubbing shoulders with some very influential people (Government officials etc through Gerry's work/Masons) and K & G were looking like the poor relations in comparison. Perhaps they were desperate to "keep up with the Jones's" with their new found "friends".

If you read the Donegal topic, you'll see there is strong evidence she wasn't there at all. Why are there no other photographs of this marvelous family reunion? There was no reason to fake the pictures other than that Maddie wasn't there. In fact, as you will see in the Donegal topic, there is a big question mark over the second photograph, the background doesn't agree with the time it was supposed to be taken.
Don't forget the dogs evidence and the DNA in the car in Portugal. Maddie was there, but when and how long exactly is a puzzle. Also look at the Burgau topic and Zaival beach.

by **tigger** 03.11.11 7:14

russiandoll wrote:was wondering if the face here could have been taken at same time as supposed last photo at the pool..sunkissed face of about same age it appears.......at maybe a minute or so later when she had moved slightly ? the hair is very dark compared to a few weeks later; did Maddie spend enough time outdoors in Portugal to have such sun lightened hair? or maybe that poolside photo simply has too much light on it in general making her hair seem very blonde. I am still trying to get two large photos side by side for comparison it is very frustrating to be so rubbish at this stuff !!

I thought the face was the same age and time as the pool photo as well. In group photos it's much more difficult to get another face to fit in, because the tendency is to look to the camera or if it is a surprise shot, everybody will be doing their own thing. To have everyone except one look at the camera is a pointer. Pool photo is one example.
Wouldn't it be great to have a big wall full of photographs to move around until some patterm emerges?

by **Jill Havern** 03.11.11 7:32

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by **tigger** 03.11.11 9:12

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'll check the larger photo again. Definitely the same age those two. But now I see a line in the neck of the poolside one which imo shouldn't be there. Because of that, the head makes a lot more sense if it's not on the body, there are a lot of mistakes in the neck area in many of the photoshopped pictures. The poolside one has poor little Amelie missing her upper arm, Gerry floating slightly and a flower in the background that blooms in June/July.

by Daisy 03.11.11 10:34

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These are the 2 most alike photos I've seen of Madeleine. However, the first one is supposedly taken just 3 weeks earlier than the 2nd pic; surely it would take a lot longer than that for the sun to bleach her hair to such a degree?

Then we have the 'tennis girl' photo, supposedly taken in between these 2 photos, that doesn't look like this girl at all! Confused? you bet I am!

by jd 03.11.11 11:02

This is the same girl to me. But the one on the left which was taken 3 weeks earlier.....this is not taken in the UK...the background cliffs and blue sky is from abroad and mostly likely Portugal or Spain, and there looks to be a pink sunhat behind her too which probably is one of the twins as in the poolside photo

The eyes are the same as the dodgy Paul Grover photo shoot

by Guest 03.11.11 11:23

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you look at the chin, nose and smile I think it's very easy to see that it is two different girls. Those things never change, your facial futures are what they are and stay like that if you dont take an plastic operation or get sick in some unusual way...

by **Nina** 03.11.11 11:37

Moa wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you look at the chin, nose and smile I think it's very easy to see that it is two different girls. Those things never change, your facial futures are what they are and stay like that if you dont take an plastic operation or get sick in some unusual way...

Hi Moa, which do you think are the two?

From my observations I note that the pool/bath girl has a scar through her left eye brow. The pumkin girl looks to have a mouth full of teeth without the gaps, but could be an age thing. Some show a chin with a pointy base, others a flat base.

Certainly the horse picture, who ever she is makes me so sad. A forced little smile from a child who looks ill.

by Newintown 03.11.11 12:02

tigger wrote:
Newintown wrote:
anil39200 wrote:easter break in donegal,Portugese holiday in may, some NHS people get lots of holidays dont they? (its ok, its an in joke here)

Perhaps Madeleine went to Donegal with the McCann family and never came back. She could still be there and the Portugal holiday was just a charade to make believe she'd disappeared. I've always wondered if the "Fund" was just a money making venture to boost the bank accounts of K & G as they were rubbing shoulders with some very influential people (Government officials etc through Gerry's work/Masons) and K & G were looking like the poor relations in comparison. Perhaps they were desperate to "keep up with the Jones's" with their new found "friends".

If you read the Donegal topic, you'll see there is strong evidence she wasn't there at all. Why are there no other photographs of this marvelous family reunion? There was no reason to fake the pictures other than that Maddie wasn't there. In fact, as you will see in the Donegal topic, there is a big question mark over the second photograph, the background doesn't agree with the time it was supposed to be taken.
Don't forget the dogs evidence and the DNA in the car in Portugal. Maddie was there, but when and how long exactly is a puzzle. Also look at the Burgau topic and Zaival beach.

Yes, you're right. Ignore my comment, I'm beginning to lose the plot, silly me!

by **Nina** 03.11.11 12:07

Newintown wrote:
tigger wrote:
Newintown wrote:
anil39200 wrote:easter break in donegal,Portugese holiday in may, some NHS people get lots of holidays dont they? (its ok, its an in joke here)

Perhaps Madeleine went to Donegal with the McCann family and never came back. She could still be there and the Portugal holiday was just a charade to make believe she'd disappeared. I've always wondered if the "Fund" was just a money making venture to boost the bank accounts of K & G as they were rubbing shoulders with some very influential people (Government officials etc through Gerry's work/Masons) and K & G were looking like the poor relations in comparison. Perhaps they were desperate to "keep up with the Jones's" with their new found "friends".

If you read the Donegal topic, you'll see there is strong evidence she wasn't there at all. Why are there no other photographs of this marvelous family reunion? There was no reason to fake the pictures other than that Maddie wasn't there. In fact, as you will see in the Donegal topic, there is a big question mark over the second photograph, the background doesn't agree with the time it was supposed to be taken.
Don't forget the dogs evidence and the DNA in the car in Portugal. Maddie was there, but when and how long exactly is a puzzle. Also look at the Burgau topic and Zaival beach.

Yes, you're right. Ignore my comment, I'm beginning to lose the plot, silly me!

Eh Newintown, you are not a "silly me" nor are you loosing the plot. Stay strong [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by **tigger** 03.11.11 12:08

jd wrote:This is the same girl to me. But the one on the left which was taken 3 weeks earlier.....this is not taken in the UK...the background cliffs and blue sky is from abroad and mostly likely Portugal or Spain, and there looks to be a pink sunhat behind her too which probably is one of the twins as in the poolside photo

The eyes are the same as the dodgy Paul Grover photo shoot

Completely missed that blue sea, Irish sea, or Atlantic, I don't think the sea is ever that colour in the North. What would we all do without each other to spot the cracks in the McCann myth?

by **tigger** 03.11.11 12:11

Nina wrote:

Eh Newintown, you are not a "silly me" nor are you loosing the plot. Stay strong [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hear, hear! roses

by Daisy 03.11.11 12:23

If Madeleine is dead, wouldn't it make sense for her remains to be buried with her Grandfather John McCann in St Johnstone Donegal? Apparently, (according to Joe People's, Bartender at Mccann Pub & UNDERTAKER) the reason the Mccann clan visit Donegal every Easter is to mark the anniversay of the death of Johnny mcCann. His headstone was only erected there in 2008 - 3 years after he died. I'm thinking, this way, the family could visit the grave with no questions asked, without raising any suspicion? Just a thought.

by **tigger** 03.11.11 12:38

Daisy wrote:If Madeleine is dead, wouldn't it make sense for her remains to be buried with her Grandfather John McCann in St Johnstone Donegal? Apparently, (according to Joe People's, Bartender at Mccann Pub & UNDERTAKER) the reason the Mccann clan visit Donegal every Easter is to mark the anniversay of the death of Johnny mcCann. His headstone was only erected there in 2008 - 3 years after he died. I'm thinking, this way, the family could visit the grave with no questions asked, without raising any suspicion? Just a thought.

In the first place, we have Kate herself who stated that their visit to Donegal in 2007 was the first. In the second place, it isn't entirely proved they were ever there. Joe Peoples barely knows them.
I am absolutely not in favour of having Maddie interred somewhere in the UK or Ireland. That implies a certain amount of piety and consideration for the child they never had when she was alive. These are not normal people. The whole religious charade was to satisfy friends and family (I believe Michael Wright is quite religious and may have converted to catholicism) who were complicit in the cover up.
If you can make it to Donegal, that will be interesting!

by Newintown 03.11.11 12:52

tigger wrote:
Nina wrote:

Eh Newintown, you are not a "silly me" nor are you loosing the plot. Stay strong [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hear, hear! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thank you Nina and Tigger. I think I'm a bit like Philomena, I make a comment before engaging brain!

(especially when it's late in the evening) [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by jd 03.11.11 13:00

The picture of the girl on the top left over the horse is nothing like the other Maddies. Her whole structure is different....or does my brain to re-engaged!

by **Nina** 03.11.11 13:17

jd wrote:The picture of the girl on the top left over the horse is nothing like the other Maddies. Her whole structure is different....or does my brain to re-engaged!

Hi JD, she certainly has a very square chin and very wide set eyes in that picture. But some of the other photos have a square chin, some a very pointy chin. The horse photo just makes me so sad, it is one of quite a few, trying to smile but the smile not going further than a grimace.

by Daisy 03.11.11 13:20

jd wrote:The picture of the girl on the top left over the horse is nothing like the other Maddies. Her whole structure is different....or does my brain to re-engaged!

I agree. The eyes on this photo also seem to have been messed about with too - very fuzzy.

Thanks for your feedback on my post Tigger, I shall ponder on what you say.

by **Nina** 03.11.11 13:28

tigger wrote:
Daisy wrote:If Madeleine is dead, wouldn't it make sense for her remains to be buried with her Grandfather John McCann in St Johnstone Donegal? Apparently, (according to Joe People's, Bartender at Mccann Pub & UNDERTAKER) the reason the Mccann clan visit Donegal every Easter is to mark the anniversay of the death of Johnny mcCann. His headstone was only erected there in 2008 - 3 years after he died. I'm thinking, this way, the family could visit the grave with no questions asked, without raising any suspicion? Just a thought.

In the first place, we have Kate herself who stated that their visit to Donegal in 2007 was the first. In the second place, it isn't entirely proved they were ever there. Joe Peoples barely knows them.
I am absolutely not in favour of having Maddie interred somewhere in the UK or Ireland. That implies a certain amount of piety and consideration for the child they never had when she was alive. These are not normal people. The whole religious charade was to satisfy friends and family (I believe Michael Wright is quite religious and may have converted to catholicism) who were complicit in the cover up.
If you can make it to Donegal, that will be interesting!

When a headstone is erected there is some disturbance of the ground, consecrated ground, and sufficient ground moved to bury an urn, or cremated remains, but would there be enough earth removed for the body of a child to be interred.

I agree it is the ideal place for the family to return to pay condolences, and though Kate says it was the first time they went it doesn't mean that it will be the last.

Re their piety, I am not Catholic but consider myself a christian, though my church visits are few and far between. Yes I know that Kate's mother made the comment that they were not particularly religious, but that doesn't make them non believers, just not active re church visits, bet they are now though [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by jd 03.11.11 13:46

Daisy wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These are the 2 most alike photos I've seen of Madeleine. However, the first one is supposedly taken just 3 weeks earlier than the 2nd pic; surely it would take a lot longer than that for the sun to bleach her hair to such a degree?

Then we have the 'tennis girl' photo, supposedly taken in between these 2 photos, that doesn't look like this girl at all! Confused? you bet I am!

Daisy you are falling right into their hands...they want everyone to be confused!

These 2 pictures were allegedly taken 3 weeks apart from each other? If so, one of the mccanns statements is lying & this is good proof...which photo is the lie?

The hills on the left photo is not the UK though could be Ireland and looks more like Portugal to me, the sea or the sky is not on the british isles unless it was a heatwave of an August. Its not the sea in the background as even in the Caribbean it is not this blue. It looks more like a swimming pool blue to me. Also, on the left is someone wearing the same pink sunhat as in the poolside photo. There are pictures of kate holding Amelie wearing a pink sunhat allegedly taken by the press 2 days after Maddie scam story was released, the thing is with this one is that kate looks so much younger than she did in other photos taken by the media at the same time and also on TV

Maddie looks to be the same in both these pictures and also in the Paul Grover ones. I think the 'Maddies' were taken at the same time in some location (could be Ireland), you get those skirting boards in Ireland, and have used photoshop to try and create them to be at different times and locations. The poolside one can easily be set up in PDL and the head photoshopped on from the UK photoshoot, I see a black line at the bottom of the neck of the poolside one.

And lets not forget one very important factor....gerry had posters printed before the PJ even arrived on the night of 3rd May with a picture of Maddie not taken from the holiday. It took 3 weeks for a picture allegedly from the holiday to be released which would be on the same camera as the poster picture (unless they took a USB stick with them but why?) and this poolside picture did not get released until after gerry had gone back to the UK first.........

by Lady-Heather 03.11.11 13:50

Daisy wrote:If Madeleine is dead, wouldn't it make sense for her remains to be buried with her Grandfather John McCann in St Johnstone Donegal? Apparently, (according to Joe People's, Bartender at Mccann Pub & UNDERTAKER) the reason the Mccann clan visit Donegal every Easter is to mark the anniversay of the death of Johnny mcCann. His headstone was only erected there in 2008 - 3 years after he died. I'm thinking, this way, the family could visit the grave with no questions asked, without raising any suspicion? Just a thought.

I was wondering about what you said Daisy and I had a similar thought when I saw that the company registration number for Joe's Bar\People's Bar was also connected with a haulage company which is no longer in operation. On the other hand I believe it would be too risky to transport a body back to the UK, plus as tigger says would also require some consideration and caring for a child they were so disconnected with. It's not entirely out of the question though and I still have my suspicions and doubts about the reason(s) why Donegal features at all in this whole mystery/story.

by jd 03.11.11 14:10

Have I missed it? but I cannot see the poolside photo in the PJ files from the camera rolls, only the Maddie lookalike photos

by Guest 03.11.11 14:23

tigger wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'll check the larger photo again. Definitely the same age those two. But now I see a line in the neck of the poolside one which imo shouldn't be there. Because of that, the head makes a lot more sense if it's not on the body, there are a lot of mistakes in the neck area in many of the photoshopped pictures. The poolside one has poor little Amelie missing her upper arm, Gerry floating slightly and a flower in the background that blooms in June/July.

Tigger, if you mean the line to the left of Madeleine's chin in the pool photo, I agree that it looks strange as does the neck in both photos. She looks so pale at the pool, in marked contrast to Gerry who, judging by the sweat and sun tan, appears to be somewhere else all together. It's been confirmed elsewhere that the weather in May 2007 wasn't particularly good.

Someone else commented that the pool girl and tennis ball girl don't appear to be the same. I used to think that but, having seen the two photos together, I think they are but definitely not taken with a day or two of each other. There was an early report that Kate felt safe in PDL because she'd been there before. It may of course have been an error but if not, I think it's possible that the pool photo was taken the previous summer. That still doesn't explain why Madeleine looks so pale though!

by Daisy 03.11.11 14:26

Nina wrote:
tigger wrote:
Daisy wrote:If Madeleine is dead, wouldn't it make sense for her remains to be buried with her Grandfather John McCann in St Johnstone Donegal? Apparently, (according to Joe People's, Bartender at Mccann Pub & UNDERTAKER) the reason the Mccann clan visit Donegal every Easter is to mark the anniversay of the death of Johnny mcCann. His headstone was only erected there in 2008 - 3 years after he died. I'm thinking, this way, the family could visit the grave with no questions asked, without raising any suspicion? Just a thought.

In the first place, we have Kate herself who stated that their visit to Donegal in 2007 was the first. In the second place, it isn't entirely proved they were ever there. Joe Peoples barely knows them.
I am absolutely not in favour of having Maddie interred somewhere in the UK or Ireland. That implies a certain amount of piety and consideration for the child they never had when she was alive. These are not normal people. The whole religious charade was to satisfy friends and family (I believe Michael Wright is quite religious and may have converted to catholicism) who were complicit in the cover up.
If you can make it to Donegal, that will be interesting!

When a headstone is erected there is some disturbance of the ground, consecrated ground, and sufficient ground moved to bury an urn, or cremated remains, but would there be enough earth removed for the body of a child to be interred.

I agree it is the ideal place for the family to return to pay condolences, and though Kate says it was the first time they went it doesn't mean that it will be the last.

Re their piety, I am not Catholic but consider myself a christian, though my church visits are few and far between. Yes I know that Kate's mother made the comment that they were not particularly religious, but that doesn't make them non believers, just not active re church visits, bet they are now though [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks for your feedback too Nina. Regarding the headstone; I'm not sure how long John Mccann's ashes have been buried in Donegal. According to reports he died and was cremated in Scotland in 2005 (or according to J Peoples 2004), then his ashes taken to Ireland and buried there. Could his remains have been buried at the same time as the headstone was erected In 2008? I know it's usual to leave the ground to settle after burial before erecting the headstone, but how much ground actually needs to be moved to bury an urn? I really don't know.

I also believe what Tigger says about the McCanns wildly exaggerating their Catholic faith; however, John Mccann was certainly buried in accordance to the rules of the catholic church. So I ask myself, why go to all that trouble if they don't abide by their religious principles, when they could have just cremated him in Scotland & scattered his ashes in Ireland?

by **Jill Havern** 03.11.11 14:33

Marian wrote:That still doesn't explain why Madeleine looks so pale though!

My little grandaughter is pale all summer because of having suncream and a hat on.

Then I heard on the news the other day that kids are getting rickets cos of having suncream slapped on them and they don't get enough vitamin D from the sun.

Hmmm....cancer or rickets? Tough choice.

by Daisy 03.11.11 14:55

Lady-Heather wrote:
Daisy wrote:If Madeleine is dead, wouldn't it make sense for her remains to be buried with her Grandfather John McCann in St Johnstone Donegal? Apparently, (according to Joe People's, Bartender at Mccann Pub & UNDERTAKER) the reason the Mccann clan visit Donegal every Easter is to mark the anniversay of the death of Johnny mcCann. His headstone was only erected there in 2008 - 3 years after he died. I'm thinking, this way, the family could visit the grave with no questions asked, without raising any suspicion? Just a thought.

I was wondering about what you said Daisy and I had a similar thought when I saw that the company registration number for Joe's Bar\People's Bar was also connected with a haulage company which is no longer in operation. On the other hand I believe it would be too risky to transport a body back to the UK, plus as tigger says would also require some consideration and caring for a child they were so disconnected with. It's not entirely out of the question though and I still have my suspicions and doubts about the reason(s) why Donegal features at all in this whole mystery/story.

Not if she'd been cremated first? Plus it's perfectly legal to transport someones ashes around within the EU.

The connection to the haulage firm in Co Mayo (republic of ireland not NI) is still puzzling me too.

by Daisy 03.11.11 16:39

Daisy wrote:

Not if she'd been cremated first? Plus it's perfectly legal to transport someones ashes around within the EU.
.

It's a possibility isn't it? The PJ certainly thought it was.

Or are these stories just more red herrings?

Maddie hunt at pet crematorium

"PORTUGUESE police today searched an animal crematorium about 5km
from the Praia da Luz resort where four-year-old Briton Madeleine
McCann went missing four months ago, its owner said."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Detectives searching pet crematorium for Madeleine's remains

"THE hunt for Madeleine McCann switched to the Canary Isles last night as
police searched an incinerator for the missing child's remains.

Detectives
swooped on a pet crematorium in the Gran Canaria town of Telde after a
worker there was arrested for attempting to abduct a child."

(Original Daily Express article whoosed.) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Edit: A more detailed article about the crematorium near Praia Da Luz:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by **tigger** 03.11.11 17:56

Gran Canaria, which means a boat or a flight to get there. Right the other way. So somehow somebody would take the trouble to take the body out there, have it cremated and come back with the ashes. Clearly not the McCanns themselves. Maddie's body is becoming too well-travelled for my liking and I still like the simplest possibilitiy:
There was a body which needed to be hidden prior to being disposed of in a manner and place which would make it virtually impossible to find.
There were contacts and paid help who would arrange that. We were so sure that she will never be found that we actually challenged the police to find the body and prove we did it.
Or:
There was a body which needed to be buried in England and taking it to England was going to be very risky, because for a start it would have to be cold storage and then you'd hope that customs wouldn't check the vehicle (or the yacht - because they specially check private yachts). Customs are usually looking for drugs and they often use dogs so that is pretty difficult too but if we got the body through and managed to keep it cold enough then it had to be stored cold until we could secretly bury it at night in a location which no one would ever find, so it wasn't going to be a good idea to ever visit that place again because we might be seen and we always worry what wild animals or dogs will dig up and then there will still be DNA.....

Besides, cremation is so unlikely. It's not easy to burn a body, quite surprising what remains. Their reaction to the DNA result was that somebody had planted the DNA. So there must have been a body to take DNA from, at least in their frame of reference.

by **Nina** 03.11.11 18:04

tigger wrote:Gran Canaria, which means a boat or a flight to get there. Right the other way. So somehow somebody would take the trouble to take the body out there, have it cremated and come back with the ashes. Clearly not the McCanns themselves. Maddie's body is becoming too well-travelled for my liking and I still like the simplest possibilitiy:
There was a body which needed to be hidden prior to being disposed of in a manner and place which would make it virtually impossible to find.
There were contacts and paid help who would arrange that. We were so sure that she will never be found that we actually challenged the police to find the body and prove we did it.
Or:
There was a body which needed to be buried in England and taking it to England was going to be very risky, because for a start it would have to be cold storage and then you'd hope that customs wouldn't check the vehicle (or the yacht - because they specially check private yachts). Customs are usually looking for drugs and they often use dogs so that is pretty difficult too but if we got the body through and managed to keep it cold enough then it had to be stored cold until we could secretly bury it at night in a location which no one would ever find, so it wasn't going to be a good idea to ever visit that place again because we might be seen and we always worry what wild animals or dogs will dig up and then there will still be DNA.....

Besides, cremation is so unlikely. It's not easy to burn a body, quite surprising what remains. Their reaction to the DNA result was that somebody had planted the DNA. So there must have been a body to take DNA from, at least in their frame of reference.

Hi Tigger, I think the crem was near PdL it was the man who owned it who was located to Gran Canaria.

I agree all has to be kept simple but cremation is simpler than burial imo.